Where do you draw "YOUR" lines? Everyone is different concerning "RECOIL" so what one person chooses to use may not be what would work best for another "INDIVIDUAL".

Likewise, there are a lots of variables for each hunter to take into consideration and circumstances can and do change "sometimes" drastically depending on different styles of hunting,location,distances,or age. Older hunters sometimes have to take it a bit easier on the shoulders ☺ I dont take Texas heart shots.

My loads have always consisted of versatility and I use one load for Elk, bear, deer, as those criitters are what I generally hunt. Occasionally another big game critter gets thrown into the mix if I get a draw tag. Never have been lucky enouph to draw a moose tag "yet" 😀

In the Recoil department my personal motto for years now has been....." Recoils a little, kills a lot". This is exactly the reason I chose the 270 winchester as my main big game hunting rifle when the older years started to creep up on me. So far it has worked pretty well with 130 gr bullets. Next year however I intend to load a 150 partition with the "NEW" reloader 26 that is being raved about to somewhere between 3000 and 3100 depending on where accuracy is the best. For me personally "Recoil" will be at the upper threshold with this load meaning I likely will not be practicing as much. I have other Identical Tikka T3's in 223 and 6.5 swede and will be shot a bunch this year so should work well as "Understudy Rifles" IMO.

When considering shot placement I most often am a heart and lungs shooter. If some distance is involved I change shot placement to shoulders and lungs.
"Not the rear shoulders" 😀

This year I consider my biggest project to be that of comparing years of results with the 270 130 grain accubond with my new 6.5 swede and a 130 accubond. 270 has more velocity, 6.5 swede has better SD and BC.

Keeping it "interesting" and "fun" 😀



Trystan

Recoil is subjective and variable.

Your 270/150 combo can be perfectly comfortable in one rifle and a complete SOB in another. Stock geometry, stock construction, and overall rifle weight are key. Charge weight also enters in to it.

I was at our "ranch" yesterday shooting. Mainly I concentrated on 150 Partitions from my Kimber 270 84L MT. It weighs 6lbs 1.7 oz's scoped. I can tell you the RL17 52.0 gr load at 2,910 vs. the RL26 59.0 load at 3,030 feel VERY different. I could give a crap about 120 fps more.

I'm closer to 60 than 50, and I've definitely changed in what I "want" to tolerate recoil-wise. I say "want" because I can still shoot any rifle out there that I shot in my 20's, I just don't want to! I've learned killing is more about shot placement and bullet quality that sheer horsepower.

Moving forward, I'm gravitating to lighter recoiling rifles. The only "magnum" I own is a 300 WSM. Its 180 at 3,030 is as much as I care to deal with.

IMO, the finest all-around BG round, with light recoil, suitable for all that my homestate (MT) has to offer is the 7-08.

The 308 is a close second.

I am much like Brad, and agree with most everything he just said, except my experience was mostly 35 years of a 7RemMag.

I am loving the 7-08 for the reasons he stated. We have killed 4 mule deer bucks so far with it and 140 Accubonds.

I've used the 270 for 40+ years mixed in with other similar cartridges(280,7x57,7/08 etc etc) and 7mm, 300,and 338 magnums of various types.....kind of a hodgepodge but bet I have killed as much game with 7mm and 300 magnums as the 270.

The 338's disappeared once I saw what a 375 would do,and that the 338 doesn't kill enough differently from a 300 magnum to justify owning both...... at least that I could notice.


Then the 300's went south because i didn't need them either, good as they were , They are more potent rounds no question but romped more than 7mm magnums and stuff hit with the 7mm's and good bullets die fast as anything.

That leaves the 270 and the 7mm's. I am not enchanted with the little 7mm's and the 280 is my bottom end after having tried them all. Nothing under 270 interests me and neither do the short action cartridges, despite their other virtues.


The 270 and the 7mm Mashburn Super and the 7 Rem Mag are ice cream to manage even at my advanced age......


I flopped field prone at 300 yards the other day, no rear rest, to check the Mashburn and fired these so went home. I would say that's my upper limit.....except a 375 H&H.

Trystan,

I use electronic hearing protection when I hunt for two reasons. One is my hearing is not so good and the second is I don't want to damage my hears with my hobby which requires me to use brakes on everything except my .22s.

My .375-.416 Rem also has a 1/2" travel shock attached to the kick pad. I hold all my guns like a BB gun and can fire even this one thirty of forty times in one session with nary a bruise.

How much rifle weight you're willing to carry becomes a factor. I'm comfortable shooting anything with 15-20 ft lbs of recoil. My Kimber 308 has almost exactly the same recoil as my 1.5 lb heavier Winchester 30-06. Both are in the 18-20 ft lb of recoil range depending on the load.

I've fooled with 7mm magnum a bit over the years. I think it is a very capable round and I can't really tell the difference in recoil between it and 30-06. I don't see enough difference in performance to choose one over 30-06 either.

I can tolerate up to about 30 ft lbs which is typical of 300 magnums. But while I can tolerate it, I don't enjoy it like I do something in the sub 20 ft lb range. I own a 300 WSM. I like the rifle and the round, but may never hunt with it again.

I've never tried 7-08 or 270, but have no doubts they will do basically everything my 308 and 30-06 will do. The 6.5 Creedmoor is tempting me.

trystan and brad hit the proverbial nail on the head, bullet construction and its accurate placement thereof has more effect on killing game than what cartridge case propelled it! W.D.M Bell proved that beyond a shadow doubt! now figure in the evolution of the modern sporting rifle with limbsaver pads and straighter buttstocks, as compared to the rifles of yesteryear with 4" of drop at the heel and metal butt plates makes my shoulder ache just looking at them. here in n.w Pa I killed most of my deer with a .30-06 and a .338 win mag. I know you don't need that kind of power, but if you don't drop the deer quickly the hunter 100 yards down the trail will! at age 55 I would rather carry a 6lb. .308 win. than a 9lb. .338 win. over hill and dale.

I have a 16+ pound .223AI and I have a sub 8# field ready .375 RUM. different tools...

Short of my lightweight SS M70 375 H&H I used in Alaska last year and will next year, my Kimber 270 Win with 140 gr TSX's will do the rest. This from a career 338-06, 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 hunter. That said, a 416 Rem M70 will accompany me to Zimbabwe later this year. I enjoy the joy of the toy...

I'm about like Ringman.My shoulder can't tolerate recoil. Two or three years ago,I got a lot of crap on here because I put a break on my Model 770 FWT .06.

Since then I have killed two bull elk with it One at about 80 yards,one at 347 lasered yards.So I can still put them where they need to go

I've killed about 2 dozen elk with various 270's and 150 NPt's leaving with a MV of 2850-2900 fps. My current elk getter weighs 7lbs 2oz with scope covers, sling and 4 rnds down.

As Brad mentions, a stock that fits or works for the shooter makes the biggest difference, along with a good recoil pad (I use a flip flop pad). A lightweight skinny bbl rifle does have more muzzle jump and requires a good grip on the forearm. Few years ago that rifle rapped my on the cheek shooting at an elk from prone, reminding me to keep ahold of that forearm.......

I have a 30-06AI that weighs in 6lbs 14ozs all up, and with a 200gr NPt it lets you know it's there and ain't as much fun to shoot.

Having both IMR7977 and RL26 now on hand, I'm wondering what the recoil of that 270 cal Partition is going to feel like with an extra 200 fps.

But......owning a 243 that has accounted for 14 elk, a handful of deer and pronghorns, I've pretty much decided my next Mtn rifle is going to be a 243. The 243 is just plain a hoot to shoot! Just can't decide if the AI version will feed well enough to please me.

Oh, and I just turned 60 last week...........

Casey

Well Happy Birthday Casey!

I have a 16 lb. .260 and a 7 lb 300 win mag, for different uses. The .260 is fun to shoot. the .300 got a brake on it now and is comfortable to shot with ear plugs and muffs........

Thanks Brad!

And then I went out and promptly tweaked the MCLs in BOTH knees while skiing.

It's hell getting old(er).............


Casey

I've got a couple of rifles in the safe that I don't care to shoot much. One is my primitive season weapon. It's a T/C Encore in 35 Whelen and at 7.5 lbs ready to hunt it lets you know it with a full house 225gr load. The other is a Ruger boat paddle stocked 7Mag. That one is definitely the stock, not the cartridge.

I've owned a couple of 300 Win Mags in sporter weight rifles and that is more recoil than I want. I wouldn't mind one in a Sendero style rifle, but I wouldn't want to tote it around very much.

The one big cartridge I've always wanted to try is a 375 H&H. I have absolutely no need for one, but it's nice to dream about hunting dangerous game in either Africa or Alaska. It's just a cool old cartridge and my dream rifle would be a Pre 64 Model 70 so chambered.

.............Amount of recoil is all subjective to individual tolerance levels and personal (enjoyment) preferences.

"Recoils a little and kills alot" is a motto that certainly cannot be argued with. A great personal motto.

You have had great success over the years with your 270 using 130 gr bullets. Next year you are going to try RL26 using a heavier 150 gr bullet with an even higher velocity from your 270. If you can handle it after trying it out, then go for it on your next hunting trip.

Given the technology advancements in today's modern powders, most if not all of us, try to push the limits of our chosen cartridges to see how much better they can perform.

Since my personal tolerance for recoil is higher than most, I happen to prefer and enjoy the more powerful, flatter shooting and higher retained (downrange) energy rounds. And should my tolerance for recoil ever become less in the future or become less enjoyable, I can always load down any of the three cartridges below to reduce recoil.

However, I do enjoy cheating the true recoil of a 338-378 Accumark Bee with a muzzle brake.

Most who own the non-magnum rounds try and push the velocity envelope. You will be doing that next year with your 270. I prefer pushing the envelope of the more powerful rounds and then loading down if needed or desired.

Either a 6.5/300 Wby or a 26 Nosler will be added this year. Don't know yet which one will be the final choice. Leaning towards the 26 Nosler.

Ballistically, those two are #1 and #2 in the 6.5mm world.

As has been said here many times "bullets matter more than head stamps". I believe that to be true considering reason and distance. I doubt Bob's 7 mm Mashburn is his woods gun, as .270 win fits that hunt better, but within reason on deer sized animals a 257 Roberts with 100 grain TTSX bullets kills the same as a .270 win. So I sold my 270. I don't pay attention to recoil that much but prefer lighter rifles and short actions. I have never short stroked a 30-06 length action that I can recall however I just am more familiar with the 308 length actions. Having killed a few animals with a 223 including a big pig and a 10 pt buck, the 308 is more than enough for anything I will ever run into. In the end I see no need for anything bigger than a 30-06, those that feel like they require a 338 win for deer or pigs are just ignorant/poor shots or are doing it for the hell of it.

My long time hunting buddy can't fire more than 4-5 shots with his 7mm RM because of his shoulder. A brake might be a good solution for him. I have one on my Ruger Scout .308 and he really likes it - said there was "no recoil" although that's an overstatement.

If people were giving you grief they were clueless.

If I reducing to a 3-rifle battery from what I have in the safe, and not worried about using factory ammo, it would look something like this:

.338 WM, fluted 22" boat paddle Ruger MKII
7mm RM, Ruger M77
.257 Roberts, Ruger M77

If it hurts at the bench you'll learn to flinch. Easy fix is a PAST recoil shield that slips over your shoulder. If it hurts in the field is another problem. I used a recoil shield at the bench for my rifles that are uncomfortable to shoot.

And let's not forget... shot placement trumps everything else.
There was a story I think in one of J A Hunter's books where somebody killed an elephant with a 22LR. Slipped it in between the ribs and hit the heart.

You think it's bad at 60, wait until you are on the far side of 70.

Belated Happy Birthday though.

Training shooters to actually hit from varied field positions on realistic sized targets (8-10in plates) under time constraints as opposed to plinking from a bench, I see a very clear difference between 10ft-lbs, 20ft-lbs, and 30ft-lbs of recoil in hit rates with the vast majority of shooters. These aren't pansy dudes either.


400-500 yards the 223Rem/22-250 (-10ft-lbs recoil) with 75+grain bullets have the highest hit rates and lowest called bad shots. They are simply easier to shoot and consequently easy to kill with.


Rifles with around 20ft-lbs of recoil take a bit of work to truly shoot well, but the right cartridge and bullet combinations can help in bad conditions with wind drift.

Once you get in the 30ft-lbs and over, it becomes increasingly hard to shoot them well under the above conditions. Obviously one can learn to deal with the recoil and do good work, but often the juice isn't worth the squeeze.


The sweet spot with regards to shoot ability, bullets, exterior ballistics, retained velocity, wind drift and terminal ballistics is around the 15ft-lbs recoil range. It is the exact reason that the 243, 6mm Creed, 6.5 Creed, 260, etc are booming. The 6.5 Creedmoor probably being the best blend of the lot.

One day at the range I fired thirty shots with my .375-.416 Rem. I was testing max loads with Barnes TSX 270s. The velocity was right at 3,050 feet per second, I think. My son-in-law also fired thirty shots that day with his 7 Rem Mag. He was firing 140 at 3,284 average. At the end of the session he had a huge bruise with a large blood blister in the middle. I didn’t even have a red spot. At the end of the day he said, “How ‘bout you make me one of your brakes?”

A 300 Win mag is the biggest I have anymore. It's not bad,but it's heavy. I'm a 7 Rem guy, lot of power for the recoil. I have 7mm08,308,6.5 Creeds. They kill just as well, and I think I'm liking them more and more as I get older. Does that mean I'm getting old?

I think, perennially, in America the 270 has been the go-to round for those wishing to escape excess recoil while still ensuring a surplus of killing power for what this continent has to offer.

I still think it's about as good a choice as there is. Others like the 7-08 nip at its heels, but it's probably still king of the hill for that role.

Due to shoulder injury I've had to part company with my 300 WM. I replaced it with a 264 WM. Recoil is acceptable but still noticeable.
I've put the light-weight mountain rifle in 30-06 in the back of the safe. I've replaced it with a 308 that's much more comfortable to shoot.
Most of my hunting now is done with either a 243, 25-06 or 6.5x55. I've taken the 243 out to 800 and the 25-06 out to 600 for practice purposes. The 6.5x55 will be the next one I play with out to ranges beyond 300.
These have become my 'favorites' simply due to what Formidilosus was talking about in his post - reduced recoil makes shooting larger numbers of rounds much more pleasurable. And, due to increase practice, accuracy is steadily improving.

One of the best post ever:
By formilodus(sp?) sorry about spelling!

Training shooters to actually hit from varied field positions on realistic sized targets (8-10in plates) under time constraints as opposed to plinking from a bench, I see a very clear difference between 10ft-lbs, 20ft-lbs, and 30ft-lbs of recoil in hit rates with the vast majority of shooters. These aren't pansy dudes either.


400-500 yards the 223Rem/22-250 (-10ft-lbs recoil) with 75+grain bullets have the highest hit rates and lowest called bad shots. They are simply easier to shoot and consequently easy to kill with.


Rifles with around 20ft-lbs of recoil take a bit of work to truly shoot well, but the right cartridge and bullet combinations can help in bad conditions with wind drift.

Once you get in the 30ft-lbs and over, it becomes increasingly hard to shoot them well under the above conditions. Obviously one can learn to deal with the recoil and do good work, but often the juice isn't worth the squeeze.


The sweet spot with regards to shoot ability, bullets, exterior ballistics, retained velocity, wind drift and terminal ballistics is around the 15ft-lbs recoil range. It is the exact reason that the 243, 6mm Creed, 6.5 Creed, 260, etc are booming. The 6.5 Creedmoor probably being the best blend of the lot.

As a gunsmith and a hunter/guide with over 1/2 a century of experience I have to say I agree that recoil is not to be seen as a virtue. It may not bother, but at best it's a neutral, and in many cases it's a problem to overcome.

I am blessed with being someone that isn't bothered much by recoil. I have a 375H&H that I had to rebarrel because I shot the throat out of the 1st barrel and I have made a LOT of 416s 404s 458ss and 460s in my life and zeroed all of them. I just shot my 375 2 weeks ago and I can still keep them under 1".

But despite the fact that I have some large rifles, love them, and I have killed quite a few game animals in my years of hunting, I cannot say that most of the medium sized magnums actually kill game up to elk size any faster than my old 270.

I finds this thread refreshing. I can see I am not alone in this observation. It's nice to read the posts from those that have experience instead of those that just write what they think is true.

I have caught flack in the past for saying so, but I am just reporting what I have witnessed.
Most of that flack has come from others that either (A) have little experience in hunting large game or (B) have experience, but have never used anything but a large rifle, and so they make themselves believe they have to be using something "better", but have nothing to compare it to.

I do see a difference in how fast my 375H&H puts an elk down compared to a 270 or 30-06, but even that is not really all THAT different.

When I compare the average effect of the ones I have killed and seen killed with 300 magnums, and 338s I have to be honest and say I have seen NO difference at all in how fast they fall from those I have killed with my 270s I have always used either Nosler partition in 150 and 160 and the old Remington 150 grain semi-round nose Core-Lokt bullets in the 270s on elk. Like any rifle, if you use bullets that don't hold up, I am sure the 270 would not have been as impressive.

I love my old classic rifles and I love to hunt with different rifles as often as I can. I have used 44 mag, 454 Casull, 308s, 30-06s, 300 H&H, 7X57, 8MM Mauser, 338 Mag, 338-06, 9.3X74R, 62 cal flintlock, and 375H&H on elk, and I have seen elk killed with 25-06s 257 Roberts, 6.5 Swedes, one 260 Rem, lots of 270s, lots of 7MM Mags, 280s, one 30-40 Krag, lots of 308s, lots of 30-06s, one 303 British, 325 Win Short Mag, one 8MM Rem Mag, one 348 Winchester, one 358 Norma, 416 Taylor, one 416 Rigby, 45-70s and one 405 Winchester.

So when I say I have seen elk killed with various guns I am not talking just a handful. I don't know how many I have seen shot in my life, but it has to be 75-100. I'd add another 50 or so to those that I didn't see shot, but I helped with the gutting, packing and butchering.

Anyone that thinks a 270 is "too small" has not used one, or seen one used (with correct bullets)

I decided long ago that a 270 that goes around 6.5# all up is about right.

I like the 270 over all the 308 length cartridges because it feeds and extracts really well.

Also, ammo is available worldwide.

Bottom line, easy to make it go BANG!

I never did have a great deal of tolerance for recoil, especially from a bench. My favorite deer cartridges over the years have ranged from 10 to 12 lb recoil. 6.5 grendel bolt action is my current favorite.

I have caught myself flinching as a result of recoil from light weight 270's & 30-06's .

I was a skinny 14 year old kid, who wouldn't have weighed a 100 pounds soaking wet, when I shot my first "deer rifle". It was my dad's Remington 760 pump in 30-06, with a steel buttplate, shooting 180 grain bullets. After about 3 shots, my boney shoulder was bruised and hurting something awful, and my ears rang for a week. In some ways, I never got over the punishment from that rifle, as I was always recoil conscious after that. I'm now well past 60, nearing 70, and with shoulders that hurt, I simply will not shoot anything that is going to hurt me. I never was like some hunters and shooters who think a rifle must kick a lot in order to kill a lot. Throughout the years, my favorite deer rifle was a 270, and if I'd been lucky enough to get a chance to hunt something bigger, I'd used it for that as well. Most of my shooting these days are with 223 and 243 rifles, as I figure that's about all I need. A bullet of proper construction, put in the proper place, is what kills game, not a gun that sounds like a cannon when it goes off. Always has, and always will, and if you can't put that bullet in the right spot, then you have no business hunting in the first place.

But strangely,some people don't put much credence in 1500 odd bulls Bell dropped with his .256 , .275, .303cal
or the buffalo and lions for that matter.
But they will claim that because he later purchased two .416 rifles, that he no longer found small cals effective.
Yet the fact he purchased six .275 bore rifles over time(one 10yrs after .416 purchase) would indicate otherwise.

Buying two .416s also makes a mockery of the myth that he was recoil shy.

We need to remember that Bell effectively relied on small cals to make a very successful commercial living
and used them to get himself (and others) out of any potential life threatening schit,
He didn't have the luxury of just scrambling behind his PHs .458lott -- Bell was a young 16 yr old lad in East Africa
armed with a single shot .303cal killing lions for British Uganda Rail.

If the internet has been around there would have been people telling him about his 'wrong' rifle and calibre selection.

Bell was also an excellent shot.....something that the vast majority of today's shooters are not. He had enough experience in using those smaller calibers, and could put that bullet in a spot that resulted in a kill. I got into an argument in another thread about the use of the 22 centerfires on big game, especially deer. Now, I've killed a few deer with the 223, with no problem. But, in order to do so, one must use the right bullet and put it in the right place.....just as one would do with any other rifle caliber. Too many times I've seen deer hunters set a 5 gallon bucket out in a field, shoot at it at 50 yards, hit it a time or two, then think they're ready to kill a deer at 300 yards. It just don't work that way. Bell proved what you can do with just about any rifle, as long as you know what you're doing.

For those people that cannot consistently put any size bullet in the required spot to result in a kill,
which calibre can save them? But If excessive recoil is whats effecting a novices marksmanship,
a smaller more manageable calibre may well assist in yielding better results.

WDM Bell despite his experience, never recommended any one particular gun or calibre that anyone else should use,

"THE question of which rifles to use for big-game hunting is for
each individual to settle for himself. If the novice starts off with, say,
three rifles : one heavy, say a double -577 ; one medium, say a -318
or a -350 ; and one light, say a 256 or a -240 or a -276, then he cannot
fail to develop a preference for one or other of them.

For the style of killing which appeals to me most the light calibres
are undoubtedly superior to the heavy. In this style you keep per-
fectly cool and are never in a hurry. You never fire unless you can
clearly see your way to place the bullet in a vital spot. That done
the calibre of the bullet makes no difference. But to some men of
different temperament this style is not suited. They cannot or will
not control the desire to shoot almost on sight if close to the game.
For these the largest bores are none too big. If I belonged to this
school I would have had built a much more powerful weapon than
the -600 bores.

Speaking personally, my greatest successes have been obtained
with the 7 mm. Rigby-Mauser"- Bell

Jerry Fisher said good hunting technique largely involves retraint--having the self discipline to know when not to shoot.
echoing Bells words of wisdom...can anyone honestly say it isn't true?