Shipping rifle - 24hourcampfire

UPS just told me they don't ship from firearm owner to ffl holding gunsmith anymore. I haven't tried USPS or FedEX . Are they the same ? UPS told me they quit doing this about a year ago. Do we now have to ship exclusively from FFL to FFL ?

No. they gave you bad info.

They are idiots

https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms
UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

Is it against the law to box a rifle up and cover any markings indicating a firearm is inside,take it to post office and ship?

(I'm not an FFL)

No

Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors

Is it against the law to box a rifle up and cover any markings indicating a firearm is inside...

Not all, but many rifle boxes you can "unfold" to a flat piece of card board, and then "refold" in reverse so all of the printing is on the inside. Then just put the factory foam/packing in the box and you're ready to go.

Update. After calling 1-800 number and complaining I received a call from service center that denied me and they told me they could ship it if I get a label from gunsmith. The 1-800 complaint center said I could bring it to another UPS center in a neighboring town and could ship it with no problem. WTF. I aint done with this. I will probably move UPS to my Chit list before this is over.

It's not like I walked in there with naked rifle in hand. It was in Doskosill case that was in a plain cardboard box.

Shipped same rifle from same service center to same smith about a year ago.

I've been told the same before. Just shipped one this week. Make sure you are not using a "UPS Store", but rather a hub location. Some of the stores refuse firearm shipments.

Originally Posted by BlackFrog

I've been told the same before. Just shipped one this week. Make sure you are not using a "UPS Store", but rather a hub location. Some of the stores refuse forearm shipments.

This is the main hub for Baton Rouge area.

Originally Posted by BlackFrog

I've been told the same before. Just shipped one this week. Make sure you are not using a "UPS Store", but rather a hub location. Some of the stores refuse forearm shipments.

This

Originally Posted by jeeper

This is the main hub for Baton Rouge area.

They are wrong then. Print out the UPS requirements directly from their website and go back prepared. I always have them printed out and in my back pocket when I go in, just in case. Some anti-gun UPS workers and managers can be problematic. Are you shipping a handgun or long gun?

Originally Posted by BlackFrog

I've been told the same before. Just shipped one this week. Make sure you are not using a "UPS Store", but rather a hub location. Some of the stores refuse forearm shipments.

The "UPS Stores" are franchises, so they make their own rules. I have a UPS Store about 3 miles from here, but have to make a 36 mile round trip to the UPS Center whenever I want to ship a long gun.

Will bring that print out. Trying to ship long gun.

If you open a UPS or FedEx account online you can print out the shipping label and have the package picked up or drop it off at a shipping center without telling anyone what is in the box.

Originally Posted by jimdgc

If you open a UPS or FedEx account online you can print out the shipping label and have the package picked up or drop it off at a shipping center without telling anyone what is in the box.

But you still need to disclose that a firearm is in the package when filling out the on-line shipping label process.

Horse feathers... My my UPS driver gives not a [bleep] what's in the box, doesn't bother to ask.

Just saying, the law says you need to disclose you are shipping a firearm. Whether your particular driver cares or not is irrelevant.... Bypass that fact at your own risk.

Quote

"When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk."

This is not a law as USP doesn't make law..

From UPS website.

Damn, where's Bricktop?

Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors

Is it against the law to box a rifle up and cover any markings indicating a firearm is inside,take it to post office and ship?

(I'm not an FFL)

Actually, the reverse is law... you may NOT put anything on the outside that indicates it is a gun.

Originally Posted by BlackFrog

I've been told the same before. Just shipped one this week. Make sure you are not using a "UPS Store", but rather a hub location. Some of the stores refuse firearm shipments.

Not complete information here...

"UPS Stores" are not allowed to handle gun shipments as they are not legally "Common Carriers" as defined by law. UPS standard hubs are all good to go and should be problem free.

Originally Posted by 260Remguy

Originally Posted by BlackFrog

I've been told the same before. Just shipped one this week. Make sure you are not using a "UPS Store", but rather a hub location. Some of the stores refuse forearm shipments.

The "UPS Stores" are franchises, so they make their own rules. I have a UPS Store about 3 miles from here, but have to make a 36 mile round trip to the UPS Center whenever I want to ship a long gun.

Nope, if they accept guns they are breaking Federal law. They are not defined as Common Carriers and may not ship nor receive guns.

Originally Posted by jeeper

Shipped same rifle from same service center to same smith about a year ago.

And why did you tell them what was inside? They have no right to ask. Machined parts.

At the USPS, you have to answer their questions. Hazards, liquid, etc., but you certainly don't have to tell them it's a gun.

Originally Posted by BlackFrog

Just saying, the law says you need to disclose you are shipping a firearm. Whether your particular driver cares or not is irrelevant.... Bypass that fact at your own risk.

He said/she said.

Lots of ill informed people on the 'Fire.

Originally Posted by jeeper

UPS just told me they don't ship from firearm owner to ffl holding gunsmith anymore. I haven't tried USPS or FedEX . Are they the same ? UPS told me they quit doing this about a year ago. Do we now have to ship exclusively from FFL to FFL ?

Whoever told you that is full of chit...

Originally Posted by GeoW

This is not a law as USP doesn't make law..
From UPS website.
Damn, where's Bricktop?

From ATF Website:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-common-or-contract-carrier

Quote

Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

Federal law 18 USC 922(e); 27 CFR 47831(a) requires a non-licensee to provide written notice to the common carrier (FedEx, UPS, etc.) that the package contains a firearm. A violation of these provisions of the law is a federal criminal offense.

Originally Posted by BlackFrog

But you still need to disclose that a firearm is in the package when filling out the on-line shipping label process.

Wrong!

Originally Posted by Steelhead

Originally Posted by BlackFrog

Just saying, the law says you need to disclose you are shipping a firearm. Whether your particular driver cares or not is irrelevant.... Bypass that fact at your own risk.

He said/she said.

Lots of ill informed people on the 'Fire.

And they have had so many opportunities to find the info easily...

....and the NRA, I would think their lawyers are on top of the subject:
http://www.nramuseum.com/gun-info-research/how-to-ship-guns-and-ammo.aspx

Quote

If SENDER is a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL (non-licensee):

ANTIQUE GUN (pre-1899) to ANYONE: An individual may use either the Post Office or common carrier.
Handguns: FedEx and UPS both require that handguns (antique or modern) go by a "Next Day" service.

MODERN GUN to another PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL in a DIFFERENT STATE: An individual can NOT ship direct. He must ship to an FFL licensed gun dealer, who will complete the transfer to the recipient in compliance with Federal & state law (usually a "yellow sheet" form 4473 & instant background check).
If it's a handgun, the dealer must be in the same state as the recipient.
Recommended: See below for how to ship to an FFL Dealer. Most guns shops will receive and transfer firearms for individual customers for a fee.

MODERN GUN to another PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL in the SAME STATE: Shipment is permitted under federal law. Use the methods suggested for shipping to an FFL Dealer, listed below. STATE AND LOCAL RESTRICTIONS MAY APPLY.

MODERN HANDGUN to a licensed FFL DEALER: An individual must use common carrier, cannot use U.S. Post Office. FedEx and UPS require that handguns go by a "Next Day" service. Carrier must be notified that the package contains a firearm.
Returns -- Note that you do not have to have an FFL dealer ship for you to ship to another FFL dealer. However, if the gun has to be returned to you, it will most likely have to be shipped to an FFL dealer near you, who will make the transfer of your gun back to you, and usually charge a fee for this service.

MODERN LONG GUN to a licensed FFL DEALER: May use U.S. Post Office or a common carrier. Carrier must be notified that the package contains a firearm.

Or show me where these cited laws and policies from the ATF, U.S. Federal Code, and the NRA are incorrect?
Honestly, I'd like to know and be properly informed.

Originally Posted by BlackFrog

....and the NRA, I would think their lawyers are on top of the subject:
http://www.nramuseum.com/gun-info-research/how-to-ship-guns-and-ammo.aspx

Quote

If SENDER is a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL (non-licensee):

ANTIQUE GUN (pre-1899) to ANYONE: An individual may use either the Post Office or common carrier.
Handguns: FedEx and UPS both require that handguns (antique or modern) go by a "Next Day" service.

MODERN GUN to another PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL in a DIFFERENT STATE: An individual can NOT ship direct. He must ship to an FFL licensed gun dealer, who will complete the transfer to the recipient in compliance with Federal & state law (usually a "yellow sheet" form 4473 & instant background check).
If it's a handgun, the dealer must be in the same state as the recipient.
Recommended: See below for how to ship to an FFL Dealer. Most guns shops will receive and transfer firearms for individual customers for a fee.

MODERN GUN to another PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL in the SAME STATE: Shipment is permitted under federal law. Use the methods suggested for shipping to an FFL Dealer, listed below. STATE AND LOCAL RESTRICTIONS MAY APPLY.

MODERN HANDGUN to a licensed FFL DEALER: An individual must use common carrier, cannot use U.S. Post Office. FedEx and UPS require that handguns go by a "Next Day" service. Carrier must be notified that the package contains a firearm.
Returns -- Note that you do not have to have an FFL dealer ship for you to ship to another FFL dealer. However, if the gun has to be returned to you, it will most likely have to be shipped to an FFL dealer near you, who will make the transfer of your gun back to you, and usually charge a fee for this service.

MODERN LONG GUN to a licensed FFL DEALER: May use U.S. Post Office or a common carrier. Carrier must be notified that the package contains a firearm.

Can you show me the law? As in the US Code or Code of Federal Regulations?

I don't think so.

Well, these are the federal law codes that they (ATF, NRA, and several shipping services) cite, Federal Law 18 USC 922(e), and 27 CFR 47831(a) quoted below.

The NRA plainly and clearly states (with no muckity-muck "lawyer-ese" language) on their website:
MODERN LONG GUN to a licensed FFL DEALER: May use U.S. Post Office or a common carrier. Carrier must be notified that the package contains a firearm.

I'm no lawyer, but I'd like to think the NRA knows what advice they're giving about shipping a firearm......

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.31

Quote

922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful --

(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that --

(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

Quote

§ 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.
(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.

(b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

(c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part: Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond shipment under Customs laws and regulations.

(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the trip.

Originally Posted by jeeper

UPS just told me they don't ship from firearm owner to ffl holding gunsmith anymore. I haven't tried USPS or FedEX . Are they the same ? UPS told me they quit doing this about a year ago. Do we now have to ship exclusively from FFL to FFL ?

You have to go to a UPS terminal near you to ship a firearm. YOu cannot go to a UPS store. THrow a copy of the FFL in the box with the gun and show the clerk the FFL if absolutely needed. No need to tell him what is in the box, if he asks be honest .

Originally Posted by BlackFrog

I've been told the same before. Just shipped one this week. Make sure you are not using a "UPS Store", but rather a hub location. Some of the stores refuse firearm shipments.

They all refuse shipments

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by jeeper

UPS just told me they don't ship from firearm owner to ffl holding gunsmith anymore. I haven't tried USPS or FedEX . Are they the same ? UPS told me they quit doing this about a year ago. Do we now have to ship exclusively from FFL to FFL ?

You have to go to a UPS terminal near you to ship a firearm. YOu cannot go to a UPS store. THrow a copy of the FFL in the box with the gun and show the clerk the FFL if absolutely needed. No need to tell him what is in the box, if he asks be honest .

If the shipper is NOT an FFL he should not have a copy of the FFL, period. BATFE does not want FFLs to give copies to anyone except other FFLs. There is no duty to show UPS a FFL copy, period!

I've had really good luck with Fedex. They don't ask what's in the box and I don't tell them.

OK. I'll admit it, I think I was wrong. I think the NRA website is wrong, I think the ATF website purposefully skirts the main point of this.

The more I read the code over and over, and sift through the legal-ese of run-on sentences, countless commas and semi-colons, I believe the written notification is required for shipments to anyone OTHER THAN FFL's and other licensed entities.

Federal law 18 USC 922(e):

Quote

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

27 CFR 47831(a):

Quote

No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.

So boiling all that down, isn't this saying:
"No person shall knowingly deliver a firearm to any carrier for shipment to any person other than a licensed dealer without written notice." ??
I guess that's saying you need written notice if you're shipping to anyone other than an FFL. For shipping to an FFL, no notification to the carrier is required.

The individual carriers may have their own policies, but as far as the actual law goes, I believe I was mistaken. Always learning!

Originally Posted by Orion2000

Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors

Is it against the law to box a rifle up and cover any markings indicating a firearm is inside...

Not all, but many rifle boxes you can "unfold" to a flat piece of card board, and then "refold" in reverse so all of the printing is on the inside. Then just put the factory foam/packing in the box and you're ready to go.

Ok. Just checking. So many dam rules now....

Originally Posted by bdan68

I've had really good luck with Fedex. They don't ask what's in the box and I don't tell them.

Our local fed ex hub is fine with firearms (long guns) from individual to FFL holder

Originally Posted by cal74

Originally Posted by jeeper

Shipped same rifle from same service center to same smith about a year ago.

And why did you tell them what was inside? They have no right to ask. Machined parts.

At the USPS, you have to answer their questions. Hazards, liquid, etc., but you certainly don't have to tell them it's a gun.

I don't believe an unloaded long gun is liquid,hazardous or perishable.....

I've always had good luck shipping USPS for long guns. Never had one turned down or even a sideways glance from the guys or gals behind the counter. Your milage may vary....

Bob

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by jeeper

UPS just told me they don't ship from firearm owner to ffl holding gunsmith anymore. I haven't tried USPS or FedEX . Are they the same ? UPS told me they quit doing this about a year ago. Do we now have to ship exclusively from FFL to FFL ?

You have to go to a UPS terminal near you to ship a firearm. YOu cannot go to a UPS store. THrow a copy of the FFL in the box with the gun and show the clerk the FFL if absolutely needed. No need to tell him what is in the box, if he asks be honest .

If the shipper is NOT an FFL he should not have a copy of the FFL, period. BATFE does not want FFLs to give copies to anyone except other FFLs. There is no duty to show UPS a FFL copy, period!

Read the Bold words in my post

Otherwise they don't ship it genius. I have been back and forth with them many times, they have the option to deny shipping it. How do they know the addressee is an FFl for one.

Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors

Originally Posted by cal74

Originally Posted by jeeper

Shipped same rifle from same service center to same smith about a year ago.

And why did you tell them what was inside? They have no right to ask. Machined parts.

At the USPS, you have to answer their questions. Hazards, liquid, etc., but you certainly don't have to tell them it's a gun.

I don't believe an unloaded long gun is liquid,hazardous or perishable.....

I just hand them the box at the USPS counter, they know what it is and as long as it is boxed right no issues

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by jeeper

UPS just told me they don't ship from firearm owner to ffl holding gunsmith anymore. I haven't tried USPS or FedEX . Are they the same ? UPS told me they quit doing this about a year ago. Do we now have to ship exclusively from FFL to FFL ?

You have to go to a UPS terminal near you to ship a firearm. YOu cannot go to a UPS store. THrow a copy of the FFL in the box with the gun and show the clerk the FFL if absolutely needed. No need to tell him what is in the box, if he asks be honest .

If the shipper is NOT an FFL he should not have a copy of the FFL, period. BATFE does not want FFLs to give copies to anyone except other FFLs. There is no duty to show UPS a FFL copy, period!

Read the Bold words in my post

Otherwise they don't ship it genius. I have been back and forth with them many times, they have the option to deny shipping it. How do they know the addressee is an FFl for one.

Point is, it is NEVER "... absolutely needed" and they cannot deny shipment just because it is a gun (assuming it is a UPS hub.) I have been through it more than once at different places and they get the message pretty quick when pressure is applied.

They would know the addressee is likely an FFL when you volunteer that the box contains a gun.

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors

Originally Posted by cal74

Originally Posted by jeeper

Shipped same rifle from same service center to same smith about a year ago.

And why did you tell them what was inside? They have no right to ask. Machined parts.

At the USPS, you have to answer their questions. Hazards, liquid, etc., but you certainly don't have to tell them it's a gun.

I don't believe an unloaded long gun is liquid,hazardous or perishable.....

I just hand them the box at the USPS counter, they know what it is and as long as it is boxed right no issues

How do they know it is a gun at the USPS counter? They cannot legally ask if it is a gun and the box cannot have any marking to indicate it is a gun.

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by jeeper

UPS just told me they don't ship from firearm owner to ffl holding gunsmith anymore. I haven't tried USPS or FedEX . Are they the same ? UPS told me they quit doing this about a year ago. Do we now have to ship exclusively from FFL to FFL ?

You have to go to a UPS terminal near you to ship a firearm. YOu cannot go to a UPS store. THrow a copy of the FFL in the box with the gun and show the clerk the FFL if absolutely needed. No need to tell him what is in the box, if he asks be honest .

If the shipper is NOT an FFL he should not have a copy of the FFL, period. BATFE does not want FFLs to give copies to anyone except other FFLs. There is no duty to show UPS a FFL copy, period!

Read the Bold words in my post

Otherwise they don't ship it genius. I have been back and forth with them many times, they have the option to deny shipping it. How do they know the addressee is an FFl for one.

The onus is on the guy shipping it, not the company.

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors

Originally Posted by cal74

Originally Posted by jeeper

Shipped same rifle from same service center to same smith about a year ago.

And why did you tell them what was inside? They have no right to ask. Machined parts.

At the USPS, you have to answer their questions. Hazards, liquid, etc., but you certainly don't have to tell them it's a gun.

I don't believe an unloaded long gun is liquid,hazardous or perishable.....

I just hand them the box at the USPS counter, they know what it is and as long as it is boxed right no issues

How do they know it is a gun at the USPS counter? They cannot legally ask if it is a gun and the box cannot have any marking to indicate it is a gun.

Betting my local post office see's a ton of guns shipped thru their facility. Very long box insured between 1 to 2k and sometimes more, yeah I think they know.

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by jeeper

UPS just told me they don't ship from firearm owner to ffl holding gunsmith anymore. I haven't tried USPS or FedEX . Are they the same ? UPS told me they quit doing this about a year ago. Do we now have to ship exclusively from FFL to FFL ?

You have to go to a UPS terminal near you to ship a firearm. YOu cannot go to a UPS store. THrow a copy of the FFL in the box with the gun and show the clerk the FFL if absolutely needed. No need to tell him what is in the box, if he asks be honest .

If the shipper is NOT an FFL he should not have a copy of the FFL, period. BATFE does not want FFLs to give copies to anyone except other FFLs. There is no duty to show UPS a FFL copy, period!

Read the Bold words in my post

Otherwise they don't ship it genius. I have been back and forth with them many times, they have the option to deny shipping it. How do they know the addressee is an FFl for one.

Point is, it is NEVER "... absolutely needed" and they cannot deny shipment just because it is a gun (assuming it is a UPS hub.) I have been through it more than once at different places and they get the message pretty quick when pressure is applied.

They would know the addressee is likely an FFL when you volunteer that the box contains a gun.

I don't volunteer the fact that it is a gun, if they ask me I answer them honestly.

I had to educate my local USPS office on this matter.

It almost turned into an argument, but just be prepared to show them on their own website as well as the ATF website, and I don't see how they couldn't work with you then.

Now they are glad to ship rifles for me and they're quite a bit cheaper than UPS was.

I'd recommend seeing your local USPS, and honestly I don't understand why anyone thinks they need to hide what they're shipping or be shady about it. When I walk in now with a long box, they ask "Firearm?"...I say yep, no ammo, FFL info in the box. No fuss, no problems.

What's the purpose of putting the recipient's FFL in the box? Presumably they already have their own...

Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT

What's the purpose of putting the recipient's FFL in the box? Presumably they already have their own...

Just what I was told to do....

Originally Posted by Holston

Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT

What's the purpose of putting the recipient's FFL in the box? Presumably they already have their own...

Just what I was told to do....

Ok. I'm telling you to send me all your ammo.

The reasoning I heard about inserting the recipients FFL in the box, was in case the shipping box is damaged and the address label is damaged and/or unreadable. After seeing the conditions of some of the boxes I've received goods in the mail, UPS, and Fedex, I think this is a wise precaution.

Bob

Originally Posted by Sheister

The reasoning I heard about inserting the recipients FFL in the box, was in case the shipping box is damaged and the address label is damaged and/or unreadable. After seeing the conditions of some of the boxes I've received goods in the mail, UPS, and Fedex, I think this is a wise precaution.

Bob

Sorry Bob, bad answer...

First, BATFE says you, as a non-FFL, should not have the copy of the FFL to start with.

Second, an address inside is a fine idea, no need for it to be a piece of paper you are not supposed to have.

Third, it perpetuates the myth in some folks' eyes that they should get a copy they do not need, turning them into whiney little bitches.

Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors

Originally Posted by Holston

Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT

What's the purpose of putting the recipient's FFL in the box? Presumably they already have their own...

Just what I was told to do....

Ok. I'm telling you to send me all your ammo.

He has been told! Laughing!

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter

You have to go to a UPS terminal near you to ship a firearm. YOu cannot go to a UPS store. THrow a copy of the FFL in the box with the gun and show the clerk the FFL if absolutely needed. No need to tell him what is in the box, if he asks be honest .

If the shipper is NOT an FFL he should not have a copy of the FFL, period. BATFE does not want FFLs to give copies to anyone except other FFLs. There is no duty to show UPS a FFL copy, period!

Read the Bold words in my post

Otherwise they don't ship it genius. I have been back and forth with them many times, they have the option to deny shipping it. How do they know the addressee is an FFl for one.

Point is, it is NEVER "... absolutely needed" and they cannot deny shipment just because it is a gun (assuming it is a UPS hub.) I have been through it more than once at different places and they get the message pretty quick when pressure is applied.

They would know the addressee is likely an FFL when you volunteer that the box contains a gun.

I don't volunteer the fact that it is a gun, if they ask me I answer them honestly.

Do you honestly NOT GET the part where the PO is prohibited BY LAW from asking you what is in the box? They are allowed to ask just the question they all ask... or is playing obtuse just a game?

Update , didn't have the time to fight with UPS anymore.Rifle shipped out USPS with no hassle.

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors

Originally Posted by Holston

Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT

What's the purpose of putting the recipient's FFL in the box? Presumably they already have their own...

Just what I was told to do....

Ok. I'm telling you to send me all your ammo.

He has been told! Laughing!

No whiny bitch here...

I used to have a war every time I used either of the UPS hubs in this area. Can't even begin to describe the hassle I used to have to go through, but it sounds like some people here know what I'm talking about.

I guess you guys just march into a place a tell them like it is and they immediately just do as you tell them to?? Never had that work out around here. And yes I know it's not right, and I know the people shipping was in the wrong, but it happened every single time. Didn't matter what supervisor or manager I talked to, or how many times I was reassured next time would go smooth.

So now, after about half hour of discussion, I just walk into my local USPS office and ship whatever I need. There's no more providing them visual confirmation that the gun is unloaded, and no searching the box for ammo as UPS did. I used to have to pack my rifles at the UPS hub, while they watched me.

What I'm saying is all I have to do is take what I have in there and ship it like anything else. If they want a piece of paper in the box that takes about 2 seconds to print out, and a verbal confirmation that there's no ammo in there, I'll be glad to give it them.

I'd feel like a whiny little bitch if I tried to argue otherwise.

And yea, I could lie, say it's machine parts, car part, golf clubs or whatever....but I can see that going bad if something happens and the gun is damaged on the way there. I've been down that road with UPS once before, and from my experience you better have everything in order if you want to get your insurance money back.

Unless UPS recently changed it's online shipping procedure, I have a account, have shipped a few guns to ffl' and was never asked what I was shipping while printing out my shipping label. I have brought labeled package to UPS centers, have had scheduled pickup(additional cost) and have just given them to the driver as he made deliveries with no problems,questions or any outside labeling stating what the package contained.

I have shipped a lot of golf clubs.

Art, while I can appreciate your effort to police the forum in all things regulated or official, I did state what I had heard- probably from this site- a very long time ago. I do have a copy of my FFL's license, just to make it easy to send off the pertinent info on the form- address, names, etc.... but it stays in my safe when not in use.

Keep up the good work there officer.

Bob

Originally Posted by Sheister

Art, while I can appreciate your effort to police the forum in all things regulated or official, I did state what I had heard- probably from this site- a very long time ago. I do have a copy of my FFL's license, just to make it easy to send off the pertinent info on the form- address, names, etc.... but it stays in my safe when not in use.

Keep up the good work there officer.

Bob

Bob
I understand, just trying to point out that complicating the very simple does not help the common understanding. I had no intention of making it personal and apologize for making you think it was.
art

Originally Posted by Holston

I've been down that road with UPS once before, and from my experience you better have everything in order if you want to get your insurance money back.

Well, speaking from personal experience, good luck getting any bux back re: insurance from USPS too.

They'll GLADLY sell you a policy for "X" dollars, but when you have a legitimate claim, they'll pay about 20 cents on the dollar and there's NO ONE you can yowl to and complain..

NO ONE.

Originally Posted by Redneck

Originally Posted by Holston

I've been down that road with UPS once before, and from my experience you better have everything in order if you want to get your insurance money back.

Well, speaking from personal experience, good luck getting any bux back re: insurance from USPS too.

They'll GLADLY sell you a policy for "X" dollars, but when you have a legitimate claim, they'll pay about 20 cents on the dollar and there's NO ONE you can yowl to and complain..

NO ONE.

Don Young, my Congresscritter has a strong office and they love writing a single letter to the PO... and it works... just saying... Do not think your Congresscritter is on the NRA Board, but if you suggest they try the same it might work very easily...