American Rifleman October 2017, A TALE OF TWO SEVENS, Craig Boddington

7x57 aficionados you need to add this to your reading material.

Thank you for the heads up. Here's a link for anybody looking- http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ar_201710/index.php#/84

P.S., give me the 7x57

Link doesn't work.

But this one does.
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ar_201710/

Works for me.

Sorry to me a pretty weak effort. Re type the old Rough Rider and kilijarmo Bell legends and collect a check level of work. Read it a couple of hundred times already.

That was about insightful as reading a post by Gus. Seriously, what was in that article that people didn't already know?

I didn't read it but I figured thats about what was in it...

I like Boddington. I try to cut gun writers some slack. There's only so much you can write about. It's gotta be tough to try to come up with something that hasn't had extensive coverage. What could he possibly put in the article that people didn't already know? What gun owning/shooting/loving demographic was his target for that article?

If I hear about his daughter's Kimber 7mm-08 again I will puke.

I very much like the idea of a classic wood/rust blue rifle in 7x57. But I much prefer the idea of a 7-08 Montana as a working rifle. Easy to source brass, advantages of composite/ss etc.

2 years ago I bought myself just such a Montana and using Lapua brass - it doesn't leave me wanting at all.

I'll skip it. I did my research and made my decision several years ago and went and bought my 7-08.

I've never had a 7x57 either. I have a 7mm 08, 7 mags, 7 ultra mag. I would like to have a 7x57, but I have enough I'm loading for. What caliber did she shout the tracker with?

I have one of each. 7-08 M700 MR, 275Rigby Ruger #1A and a 280 M700 Franken rifle.

The #1A is unfired and the other two are set up different enough to justify owning them. Truth is that the 257R will get used more than all three together.

I thought it was a good article. My take away was that 7-08s tend to be more accurate on average but with less case capacity. The 7x57 has more nostalgia but requires a little more dedication to find brass, get to shoot, etc. having played with each, I'm with the Boddington daughters, give me the 7-08 between the two.

I did not know Boddington preferred the 7x57.

Boddington does have a beautiful left hand custom mauser in 7x57 built by Todd Ramirez.

Ramirez's shop is not far from my house. He lives in a tiny place called Alba on US 80 about 80 east of Dallas.

Wish I could afford a rifle built by him.

Any difference that doesn't make any difference , isn't a dfference.

I thought it was an interesting article. I've got both a 7mm-08 in a Browning X-Bolt which is extremely accurate and lightweight, but I'd give that one up long before I would my 1895 Chilean Mauser in 7X57. It's no problem keeping groups within 1.5" at 100 yards with 140 gr ammo, but this summer I found that it really likes the PPU 158 GROM, which is even more accurate. I changed out the front sight to a higher one and filed it to shoot 2" high at 100.

What a piece of wood on that Chilean. Great old rifle there.

Does anyone else find , no matter the info. available in the article, that Boddington comes across a bit Smug. Even for for a Marine...........

You should have read his stuff back in the 90's. He's lightened up a lot since then...

I own both, have killed deer with both, and I wouldn't turn around for the difference between the two. Actually, I'm probably going to sell the 7-08 and keep the 7X57. Just for the record, Boddington has never impressed me.

Great looking 95 Chilean.

I have talked to Boddington numerous times at SCI. I even tried to set up a Cape Buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe through him. Didn't happen.

One of the African PHs that I have hunted with was not very impressed with him or his people.

donsm70

Seems like a bit of Boddington envy going on here. I haven't met him although living in the same town we cross paths occasionally. FWIW a good friend of mine who has a guiding service here has hunted with Craig several times and says he is one of the good guys. I generally like his writing style but your opinion may differ from mine and that's OK with me and I hope it's OK with you.

I don't have any problem with Boddington, but I rarely read his articles as they are usually like the one mentioned in this thread: formulaic and without much in the way of news. Even his project reviews boil down to "I liked this product", or "I didn't like this product" without much in the way of technical information or insight.

I am a fan of both the 7x57 and the 7mm-08, and I am presently struggling with buying a new rifle chambered for one or the other. My choice will be made on the basis of the rifle itself and not the merits of either cartridge, as I already know that I will end up being happy with either one.

I've got both and think really highly of both. The 7mm-08 leaves me slightly cold compared to the Mauser.

what does CB say about the two that he didn't say in 2011?

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/rifles/featured_rifles_3_top_non-magnum_7mms_051711/

Oddest thing I ever saw Col.CB publish , was his personal expressed support of stolen valor
by his friend and business partner Geof Miller.

I've always liked Boddington. Read a lot of his adventures when I was a kid dreaming about hunting far off places. The only gripe I have is that he belonged to the "elk are bullet proof" crowd for a good while. I never liked it when he bashed my 270 Win as inadequate. But that's not uncommon for gunwriters who don't live in elk country I guess. He came around eventually.

I remember some time ago Boddington wrote an article about the .270 Win and elk....after finally going on an elk hunt with a .270 to the NRA range (or something like that) in New Mexico to see for himself. He was pretty impressed...and basically apologized for bashing it as an elk round for so long. I don't know if he's ever been on a non guided hunt, but I do find myself being a bit envious of him and the hunts he has been on over the years. Everyone I know that has met him says he's the nicest guy around. I think pretty highly of him, myself; other than him pushing some pretty hard kicking rifles.

As for this 7-08 vs 7x57 article, I suspect it was written for newbies and/or the inexperienced. He's been around long enough to know writing something like that isn't for seasoned hunters, and I am sure the editors asked for something like this.

T you mfer you have been missing! well I would not say missing anything, but you must've been killing where are the pictures???

He hunted on the NRA Whittington Center near Raton ,NM.

Any author that writes an article titled: "Why I hate the .308".... but waxes eloquent on the virtues of the '06 for 20+ years..... is just plain stupid as far as I'm concerned.

I've never liked the guy's writing.... or his daughter's TV show.

Craig is a gentleman of the old school, with vast hunting experience. Had dinner with him once in Joberg and was sorry to see the evening end.

The 7x57 would seem to be a better choice for the handloader who prefers heavier bullets. I'm following some of Mule Deer's 7x57 recipes with H4350 and Enduron 4451 in a 2014 BACO Model 70 and 2700 fps seems attainable with 160 grain Woodleighs and good accuracy.

With lighter bullets, it appears to be an even draw.

IMO, the best 7x57 factory load for Africa is the Norma 156 grain bonded Oryx.

I still laugh at an article he wrote many years ago about which is better whitetail cartridge, .270 or .30-06? He wrote a lot about both cartridges. His final answer.... .280 Remington. Which not much, if anything was written about in the article.

I generally do enjoy his writings and make a point to read them.

Dogshooter,
Do you like Mule Deer? Do you think he is stupid?

Yes....

I think we're all stupid.... except 'flave....

Anyone who could love the '06 and "hate" the .308... qualifies.

Anyone who writes an article about it.... is a special kind of qualifier.

Furthermore.....

I believe it was our very own, aforementioned Mule Deer, who once said something to the nature of:

Gun writers often get cornered into a stance on something, either via their own writing, or by defense against the contradictory stance of another scribe..... visa vis; JOC on the .270.... or the whole JOC vs. Keith deal.... or Boddington's .270 on elk BS.... etc.

I think that's stupid.... (not the MD quote... the concept of painting oneself into a corner)

Been whacking sage cocks, plus a caribou in the Talkeetnas and some halibut in Seward. A good time it was. No deer for me last weekend: only small ones were seen.

Pictures are too big of a PIA for my retarded ass to post very often, though I do have a few:



My nephew's doe 'lope from Idaho a few weeks ago:


Ketchikan back in August



Wyoming Golden trout

Other Wyoming trout




Montana pike

One more odd thing about Boddington...I seem to remember him writing one time about how elk and mule deer live in vastly different habitats and how he had never been successful on a combo hunt...

That struck me as very strange and did doubt his experiences. I see elk and mule deer within a few hundred yards of each other almost daily. Today, yesterday and last Saturday were no exceptions.

"Cartridges We Can Live Without" by C.B, RifleShooter Jan 2009.

" Folks, it’s time to cull the herd.....

One of my personal favorite cartridges is the great old 7×57 Mauser, but I give it thumbs down as an American commercial cartridge.
My reasoning is much the same. The 7mm-08 duplicates its performance, but is generally more accurate and can be housed in a
true short action. The factories load the 7mm-08 to its full potential, while American 7×57 loads have always been extremely mild,
again because of the concern about hundred-year-old rifles. I won’t give up my own 7×57–but I sure as heck don’t shoot American
factory loads through it!"

Kind of odd CB had a Kurz small ring mauser hacked to accomodate 7x57, when in his own words 7mm08 is
better fit in a short action, would offer more accuracy and the option of more potent variety of factory loads.

He has always been a dink shooter...

It must be a lot of pressure to write meaningful articles about meaningless topics.

16Bore you are spot on!
These types of articles on recycled topics have really lost my interest. Might be why my magazine subscriptions have dwindled. Not much in the lower forty-eight I wouldn't tackle with my 7/08 or 308, but hey I don't read these articles so I might be missing something important!

Next thing you know he'll compare a 270 to a 30-06. Wonder if anyone has done that one?

... 270 for the "Win" ... Just saying ...

We have 7x64 you have 6,9mm version called .270Win. I would think .270Winchester would be preferable to both 7x57 and 7-08 because you can get ammo at place called Walmart which I was told at some locations is open around the clock.

I'll take it.

My first rifle was a 7mm RM. When I started adding to the collection twenty year later a 7mm-08 was always near the top of the wish list. (A 7x57 would have been equally acceptable, depending on the platform.)

Somehow the 7mm-08 never percolated to the top of the list. Now I have a lightweight .280 Rem and the chances of getting a 7mm-08 (or 7x57) are greater than zero - but not by much.

Correct, .270Win ammo is generally available most places in U.S. that sell ammo. Maybe six months ago, there was a thread "Which cartridge have you used to kill the most game?" Not surprisingly, out of more than 200 responses, the 30-06 was number one at 23% of responses. Number two was .270Win with 17% of responses. All other chamberings were single digit percentages.

Germane to this discussion, while the 7mm-08 came in fourth place overall (5% of responses), the 7x57 did manage to place in the "Top Ten" by virtue of a 5 way tie for 9th place (2% of responses)

Edit: I have to admit that the .275 Rigby Ruger M77 that I just picked up, even with thin hard rubber recoil pad, has less felt recoil than my first custom rifle chambered 7mm-08. My first custom was built on a LH SA M700 action with #2 barrel and McM M7 stock with 1" Decelerator recoil pad. Stock ergos? Weight? Whatever, It had just as much felt recoil as a .308 or .30-06, to me... Eventually rebarreled to .243Win.

I have a 7-08 and a 7X57, along with a bunch of other cartridges. I have killed more deer with my 270 than with all the others combined. I have often asked myself why I want to use something else, when the 270 works just as good, and in most cases better.

Same here. Monkied with a pile of rifles and schit and have taken more game with a hand me down 270 and Corlokts. Back to the start too...

I have tried hard to like the 7x57, but have found it difficult. On the other hand, I have owned five 7mm-08s with perfect satisfaction. I still have my first, a Remington Model Seven with 18-1/2" barrel, which I bought new in 1991. I currently have another, a Nosler Model 48 with 24" barrel. Both shoot sub-MOA and have mild recoil. I am also a fan of the 270. My current 270 is an FN Mauser with a custom Shilen barrel. It is also very accurate. However, it kicks noticeably more than the 7mm-08s, which is an issue for me at age 71 and on blood thinners.

I love my 7x57 but I think it's at least as much because of the platform it's on. Now that I fond a few load it likes, It' more fun.

Nothing wrong with "back to the start" rifles. I find myself using my old 30-06 more than anything else lately as well...

While I am not a big fan of Boddington, I figure any man who takes the trouble to build a custom rifle in 7x57 and admits to liking the cartridge can't be all bad.

Paul B.

I'll keep my Mauser and reload for it,but I guess for the folks that don't reload buy the 7-08

In Zimbabwe, the .270 is not "legal" for hunting anything but the smaller critters. The minimum legal caliber, for "big game", according to their game regulations, is 7mm, with certain minimum energy requirements. DG has another set of requirements, with a minimum bore diameter of 9.3mm, with certain minimum energy requirements.

We all know that there is no discernible difference in terminal effects between a bore diameter of .277 and .284 and in certain instances, a .270 may well outperform a 7mm, but technically speaking, those are the laws.

All writers repeat themselves because the older they get, the more their readership changes and what is old news to the Dino readers is fresh and new to others.
The challenge comes in repackaging the same information topped up with anything learned since the last review.

John

I ONLY reload and I went 7-08.

The 7mm08 suffered from the same problems as the 280 Remington: The marketers at Remington.

Why this great cartridge is burdened by being chambered into 18.5" barreled rifles and marketed as a kids gun is a question only the fools at Remington can answer. I have a custom 700 that I built with a 25" Shilen barrel that is a tack driver and easily exceeds 7x57 velocities due to it's pressure advantage and in a short action.

I also only hand load my ammo, most of my rifles have never seen a factory loading.

From my CZ 550 7x57 with a almost 24" barrel. Straight factory rifle,no changes were made to it.


This is how far I can seat the bullet.

The rifle.



It has a Leopold 6x42mm now,instead of the 4x Zeiss in the pic.

I have a similar load for my 7mm08: 48 grains of Ramshot Hunter with a 2.85" COAL and a 160 Partition for 2811 fps from my 25" gun.

Do you have adequate neck tension with your OAL out so far? That seems marginal from the picture. Nice gun.

I don't mean to imply that 7x57 isn't awesome, just that 7mm08 is great in it's own right.

*Load is a maximum load for my rifle and could blow yours up etc. Do not use etc, you could die etc....

Yup,have enough neck tension with those bullets.

I now load 175 gr Nosler Partitions in it. Using 51.0 grains of Vihtavuori N-165 and getting 2600 fps with the 175 gr NP.

I haven't tried a 175 Partition, but I do have a nice shooting load for the 175 Accubond LR that goes a shade over 2600 with a big load of Ramshot HUNTER.

This produced the tightest group I have ever personally shot in any gun: .28" for three shots.

WOW! Good shootin' there Disseminator!

That made me laugh.


Because of so many of those articles, and as a very young fan of JOC and the 270 Win, I ended up with both just to see for myself. Of course, I found no appreciable difference in performance on game when bullet construction was similar and concluded that writers and pundits like me just wanted something to write/argue about when one or the other was their personal 'pet'.

In the end it is the platform, not the headstamp that makes one or the other my favorite. I carry short actions a bunch these days...