I just posted a rifle/ scope combo on the classified that I have over 3K in. gonna lose some serious money on that one...

I've found that I have an unhealthy love for long heavy barreled, varmint rifles, tactical rifles, beanfield rifles etc. But in practice I don't like toting them around, I'm never satisfied shooting them, and when they are that long I don't take them in the field because they get caught in the dense brush/trees around here and I'm so short if I carry them in my hands I risk nose diving them in the ground while walking. So dating back to like 2001 when I bought my first Savage model 12 all the way through custom surgeon action builds and my most recent Kimber Open Country purchase I don't want to even think about how much money I've dropped on these rifles that didn't make me happy, and end up getting sold at a discount.

So no more!!!!

All my hunting rifles from now on are going to have:

---20" barrels or less (or be chopped to such)

---some sort of Winchester Model 70 based 3-position safety on the action (I can put a PT&G on a remington if I have to, but I'm not a big remington fan to begin with)

---probably going to be short actions. I have a 30-06, 35 whelen (it's fixing to get cut from 24" down to 20") and a 264 win mag (24" but it shoots so well I'm not touching it)

---will be under 7 lbs before optics (I've got 3 kimbers that are close to 6lbs scoped, and I love them the most, makes it hard to tolerate anything else)

---will have synthetic stocks, or be used and beat up so that I don't fret putting that first scratch in pristine wood.

What lessons have you learned about your rifle preferences, and no matter how tempted you are you won't ever make that same mistake again????

(this isn't meant to start an argument, just see what others have learned, I know there are thousands of sendero lovers out there like my cousin who won't own anything else)

I have several magnum rifles, 7RM, 300WM, 300Wby, 7wsm, and sold several more because I had to have one in case I got a long shot. They all shoot good and have nice glass on them and except for shooting paper every now and then they never leave the safe.


30/30, 35 rem, 243, 260, etc get the nod now.

Guess I'm taller than you. 42" barrel on the flinter is a joy to carry and shoot.

Load development to the nth degree. Trying 57 bullets when you only need one good one. You don't need to punch paper to kill schit.

I figured out long ago that I dislike long barrels and safeties matter little.

My problem is more generic than that. I've reached and age and inventory where I need fewer rifles, not more. There are many I would like to have to play with, but I'm happier just to learn to shoot the ones I've already got better.

a few more for me now that I've been stewing over it for a little bit.

---stainless guns, they seems to stick around longer for me


this one really cooks my noodle:

---.264 caliber short actions. I love the 6.5mm. and I've loved it for a long time, but I've been through more 260's than I can count (several were re-barrels or full custom jobs because of a lack of factory offerings), 2 grendels, and a creedmoor. I love my 264 win mag, and that might be part of the problem. I'm keeping all the ammo and dies for the creedmoor hoping I can find another package that works for me but I'm afraid it might be a lost cause, but I'm gonna blow money on at least 1 more rifle before I go there (lets be real probably 2 more rifles)

^This...toting around a lightweight Kimber will spoil you.

YUP!

Leaving the gun shop receipt where the Mrs can find it. There was a time when she thought a rifle cost $300.00 and a scope was $75.00. Unfortunately those days are gone forever.

A couple lessons come to mind. Don't settle for less than you want, you will end up buying again in the search for the holy grail. Also, buy as close to what your "perfect" specs are, then decide if the last couple % is worth the big jump in money! (i.e. 95% of "perfect" or do you need to get 100%)
No more than 24" barrels (we are talking big game rifles here), no shorter than 22" for me. Anything over 8lbs is too heavy for a hunting/carrying rifle unless it is a larger cartridge. A gun can also be too light (or maybe a combination of very light and not well balanced) to shoot decently in the heat of the moment.(like offhand when you have one or two seconds to make a shot as a buck slides into the thick stuff)
Mag cases vs long action std rounds really start to make a difference in speed at 30 caliber!

I have learned that gunsmiths are expensive............

This. I've got more deer rifles than I know what to do with. If I could do it over, I'd get two quality rifles with great glass- 1) custom long range bolt gun and 2) brush gun.

I have learned if you want to be practical that owning a half dozen different calibers (or more) that essentailly do the same thing is a waste, so now to keep it much more simple I only keep a few calibers, I dont varmint hunt anymore, and only deer hunt so all of my bolt action centerfire rifles (except a 30-06 thats for sale) are chambered in my favorite hunting cartridge .300 Win....I only hunt trophy whitetails that i might only get a once a year fleeting glimpse of so I love the way a .300 Win with a 165gr Barnes TTSX bullet easily dispatches whitetails at any angle i might be presented with. I hunt a lot of rugged, remote country so i also have found that I prize a lighter rifle made of stainless and synthetic, but above all it has to be very accurate...Tikka T3x Superlites are some of my favorites............Hb

Never sell a gun just to get the money for the next itch that needs scratched. I don't know how many times I sold a rifle in order to get the money for the next one that was going to be "perfect", never had that work out even once.

A cheap gun can be just as accurate as an expensive one, and quite often even more accurate.

Don't believe the drivel that "gun-writers" spout. They are basically snake-oil salesman, you have to read between the lines and decipher the code words that they use - such as accurate enough for "minute of deer" or "all I had was factory ammo for the test rifle but with some load development it will easily shoot to it's accuracy guarantee".

And the one that would have saved me a lot of money through the years - I could have done everything I do today with my Mossberg 22 lr carbine, my Ithaca 20 gauge pump, my Colt Scout revolver 22 lr, my Savage 99 308, and my S&W model 10 38 Special. It has been fun chasing the Holy Grail but it has been expensive.

One of the most important - if you have a rifle that works well for you never let it go.


drover

I started with a 22 and a 243 and an 870 and now I realize after chasing the loonyness that I could have stayed with those and not spent 20 grand.

I think you are ahead of me... I'm starting to ask myself what can XXX do that My .308 Adirondack can't do...(nothing is lighter/handles better than the adirondack) I'm probably going to move that direction in the future.

Paradigm shift...

I'm pretty much done with "load development" for the rest of my life.

I never tried factory ammo until relatively recent, and I have to say it makes gobs of sense in some cartridges.

Shooting offhand twice a week is 1,000,000,000 times more valuable than a group in the 2's.

You don't need high end schit to be consistent to the 600.




Clark

I like the guns i have even though I don't shoot them all every year.. If I sell, then I really miss it and want it or another like it. Have long barreled heavy rifles, and short packing rifles.. In my country the longer guns most often get the nod.. But I still like all of them..

Lessons learned:

Custom work rarely brings anything to the table at selling time. Re barrel, rebore, new stock and such generally bring no more than it would bring as issued.

Standard weight rifles from reputable makers in standard calibers usually have a decent market.

The last $3500 gun that I sold, took almost ten years to sell at that price. There is not a three grand customer behind every tree.

"Rare" guns are usually rare because folks did not want them when they were factory offerings. If they were selling back then, makers would still be filling orders. I still recall pre '74 Winchester M70s in .22 Hornet going begging for buyers. Who wanted a .375 H&H size action modified to shoot the diminutive Hornet? Now days, lots of folks. But I recall a hardware store that was still stuck with three of them in the late '60s.

Jack

About the same thing you did. I'm about finished, at least at this time, spending much money on rifles.

All the drama, DOPE, handloading, etc, etc, etc, doesn't matter much under 300 yards and is easily handled with a 48 year old rifle, 30 year old scope, and a shiny box of Corlokts....

This is true^^^

I spend all my time and money working on rifles that will perform beyond this range.

As far as expensive lesson's this is my hobby and passion , so the few dollars I have lost along the way don't matter, I learned from each and every one.

With tags becoming harder to draw in the best trophy units in the west, time spent developing a perfect system is time well spent.

If you live in the East and can shoot multiple deer a year, hell it doesn't matter, use a 30-30 sight it in at 100yds and rock on.

That's the point, one doesn't need to spend much to make long shots. Some years back a bought a Weatherby Vanguard and a used scope on the 'Fire. I put it all together, loaded some rounds before the rifle arrived. Got it dialed in at 100 yards and a few across the screens for velocity check.

6th round through it, I plugged a 5x8 inch Crown Royal box at 700 yards. No magic, no pixie dust. One don't need to live back east to shot a 30/30. Some folks just enjoy getting close.

True. I'll add that through all that I did learn quite a bit regarding the in's and out's of rifles, ammo, trajectory, reading wind, etc. Obviously did a pile of shooting and certainly a better shot because of it.

But realized I don't need a F1 car for my morning commute.

"Passion" is all but gone, not sure I've fired a CF round in 2017. Probably poke a few flat heads and maybe a dink buck for groceries. Other than that, it's just about family...

Steelhead,
I get it, it's more the indian than the arrow.
Maybe I am behind the curve and a slow learner?
But I love the confidence a fine rifle and accurate load give me.
And I do know this, it doesn't hurt and i picked up some skill along the way.

Common cartridges are common for a reason! I progressed through a whole lot of cartridges over the years to find out that I like cheap, low recoil rounds best because I shoot them a lot more and I shoot them better. To me, a do-all (well) gun collection would look like this: 22lr, 223 Rem, 270 Win, 45-70, 9mm, 45LC and 12 ga.

I could kill everything with a .284 Savage 99. Wish I had it in me, life would be simpler and I believe I'd be happier.

My lessons:

Cartridge overlap is out of control, I don't need that many rifles

I like custom, but customs are about the fun of building what you want and working with a great builder OR spending ridiculous amounts of hours searching the internet for the perfect find. For function, I would recommend that anyone buy a current model model 70, put a quality scope on it, and go hunting. As much as it pains me to say it, the results will likely not be different than mine with a custom mauser or model 70 that costs many thousands of dollars.

If you want to go custom, shoot a lot to know how you like calibers, weight, etc. This can be done with factory rifles. Then take your time, spec out the rifle of your dreams, spend the money, and plan to give it to your kids. Never do a custom build with the expectation you will sell it in the future - might as well go in your backyard and light 100 dollar bills on fire for fun.

After playing around with lots of rifles, like many on here, I find myself consolidating around the standards. Have custom rifles in 30-06, .375, etc. There is a reason they are the standards, you can find GREAT factory ammo in the standard calibers, and if you are in Africa you can get more ammo in a crisis. I bought all the reloading gear, then started shooting Barnes Vor-Tx and it was great. Reloading gear is still in the closet.

I've hunted more africa than in the US - figure out your bullet and load and be done with it. Lots of discussion, but for me, could not see any reason to go outside of a-frame or tsx and I chose TSX. For my 06, its the JJ hack load - 168 grains going around 2900 - barnes vor-tx. Standardize, standardize, standardize. I got tired of messing around with different ideas - like the idea of having a few rifles built right, with loads I know perform, and I'm good to go. There was a great guy on the fire, had a couple of echols rifles, and hunted the world - Alan? Drawing a blank on his name, but read some of his posts and they made a lot of sense to me. I went with Gene Simillion.

If I want to mess around, then I can buy factory rifles, play with different calibers, and sell them for close to what I paid when I'm done. I do have a couple of smaller projects on the list and expect I will always go in and out of some stuff "on the side", but for my core set of tools, I'm keeping it simple and high quality.

My mistake was spending too much money and time thinking I could find that perfect rifle on the resale market - unethical dealers, guns with strange problems you can't identify when buying, more frustration than its worth - although its always fun looking.

I'm sure I have many mistakes yet to be made, good thread.

I could easily get by with a .22lr, .300 Win, 45-70 and a 12ga, as for handguns I could live with a .44 Mag revolver and a .357 Mag pocket rocket...but I doubt I will ever get down to that as I still enjoy owning several different weapons just not the variety of calibers or numbers of firearms I once owned, and so far I haven't missed a safe full of guns chambered in a bunch of different cartridges one bit......Hb

One of the things I did was limit my pistol cartridges to .45, 9mm, and .22. Makes life a lot easier....and cheaper.

I made the classic blunder of cheaping out on a rifle and will now spend more money to make it into what I want. It's a Remington SPS, basically an eyesore. I will never own 20 rifles like some of you. I just want one nice one.

I still havn't learned that one rifle is all I need to hunt and the money I've spent on all of the others was better spent on trips and tags

Heavy "tactical" rifles, just did another which I will keep for a while, get tired of a sell for a loss.

Any rifle is only as good as it's owner. Just don't take much to hit a basketball at 400 yards. Of course if you live out west, have to beg for a deer tag every 3 years and only get 2 weeks to use it, I guess equipment fills in the time over hunting.

I'm with Scott again on most of this..its no big chore to hit the gopher silhouette target at 400 yards with (or without) basic scope with dotz. As usual trigger time trumps all. I however am fortunate to live in a state where I don't have to beg for deer tags and use them in a three day window.I can still buy a fistful of tags OTC and have over a month to fill them. Fortunate also in that Ive had many a season when I killed more deer than the average guy kills in a decade, and the experience helps point out exactly how bad a lot of these gizmos aren't needed....

All that gobbly gook said..perhaps my most expensive lesson is 'building' rifles. Buy a donor action, or even barreled action, buy a big name barrel, buy an aftermarket stock, have a little gunsmithing done, buy a proper trigger, Talley mounts and any kind of decent scope and you have a $1400 minimum rifle.....which is worth maybe $500 resale value...


But I knew that going in......

Rifles are similar to boats and young women...there's no end to how much money you can pour into them without making them any more useful.

Lots of gold on this thread... wish I had known this one all those years ago:






yeah, I think I am permanently out of the long and heavy game... If I get a change to varmint hunt, I'll take my kids .22-250 Featherweight compact, thing shoots 3/4 MOA with winchester white box...



I need to make this my tagline... do you mind if I steal it?

Just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Too short and light can end up being poorly balanced, making field shots difficult to pull off. A light barrel of around 22" can be easy to carry, but also easy to shoot. Old Jack's pattern for a mountain rifle coming in at maybe 8 pounds max is still a good one. You can go lighter if you pay close attention to balance. 20" barrels pair well with Mannlicher-style stocks, if you can find one.

Just put together a 6.5 Grendel CZ with a heavy Tract scope. Maybe 8lbs with a 24" barrel, but very well balanced. Not a do-all combo by any means because of the cartridge, but it feels good in my hands, and is at least a pound lighter than my other deer rifles. Might get a lighter scope after I wring out the Tract a bit, maybe a K6.

You couldn't run fast enough to give me a boat, but young women are another thing altogether. What they are good for is priceless.

For me, it has been trying to like 7600s.

A guy could just buy a Ruger RAR , chambering doesn't really matter. Mount a good scope, spend the money saved on ammo and go kill stuff near and far.

But good grief this is a site that caters to rifle loonies, no?

Buying the parts, putting them together and finding the perfect load is fun, it is what we do.

Many of the most successful international hunters in the past set forth with a Weatherby MKV in 300bee and went around the world slaying critters, with factory ammo no less! They even hauled that tank up steep mountains!

For me the biggest mistakes have been building rifles too heavy and long. They are fine at the range but get passed over every time when i head out the door hunting.

I wish I had just bought two custom rifles right out of the gate and gone hunting.

That and screwing around with Wildcats. Its fun for a while and you learn things about reloading but when all is said and done, standard cartridges are just as good and a heck of a lot less trouble and expense.

Agreed on the wildcats. AI sounds nice, but after a few rounds of fireforming you are left wondering why you are doing it.

1. That I really don't need to blow the heck out of the ground behind a 12" wide whitetail deer with a big magnum cartridge from a custom built rifle.
2. That I shouldn't buy a new rifle chambered in a new cartridge that isn't going to be stocked at the local Walmart.
3. Get one great go to rifle and scope and quit getting guns that would be nice to own.
4. Quit believing all the hype in the gun magazines every month because newer doesn't always equal better.
5. That I don't need more stuff.

Hard-kicking magnums that gobble obscene amounts of powder, 24" plus-heavy barrels, and the AI/wildcat route... Learned my lesson and I'm over it now.

But a guy has to learn and it's part of the process...

I was able to learn that by watching someone else go through the process, thankfully.

^This^

Plunger ejectors suck.

700 extractors suck.

A good amount of old accuracy/gun myths are retarded and perpetuated by guys that don't shoot much, if any.

Accuracy is not magic.

Shipping Leupold's in for warranty work is a fools errand.

100 round MTM boxes for the win.

Rifle balance matters a lot
Long barrels are not handy
Niche rifles sound cool but get used little
3/4MOA is almost always good enough, stop tweaking and shoot it at stuff other than 100yd paper
If a rifle is not enjoyable to shoot, it won't get shot much
Don't fret 50-100fps left on the table
Triggers matter
Cheek-weld matters
LOP matters
Start load development just off the lands if possible
Most wildcats are not worth it
A decent factory barreled action, well bedded, with straight ammo, will generally shoot well enough to kill big game at reasonable ranges and will often shoot way better than that
Eye relief and "easy to get behind" matter more in scopes than tricky features and big magnifications or big objectives

A 30-06 a 223 and a 22 LR is all I need for what rifle hunting I do any more and would have been all I needed in the past.

For rifles...less in quantity more in quality.

Costs more does NOT = better !

Prettier does NOT = better ! ( referring to more than guns !!!! )

Others opinions are JUST that !!




Those 3 things cover a lot of territory.

Jerry

No wonder is so f-n hard to sell a rifle these days.....

RIFLES
• The cheapest guns are the ones I already own.
• I need a rifle that I like and that I can shoot well. Most everything else, including chambering, is a detail.
• A Sako Forester in 308 might be very close to perfection.
• A rifle for foul-weather hunting must be bedded with a free-floated barrel, have a synthetic stock, or both.
• Dollars cannot express the value of a rifle that holds its zero or a scope that tracks properly.
• My love of FN commercial 98 Mausers in 30-06 is irrational. Like 100% not rational.
• A rifle for offhand shooting should balance farther forward than a standard M-70 FWT.
• Someone should make a really good 4x scope with an illuminated German or duplex reticle.
• If a 308 or a 30-06 is the wrong answer, then double-check the question.
• You can hunt most of North America with something on the heavy end of the deer rifle scale and a 4x scope.

LOADS
• There are so many good hunting cartridges that obsessing over the best one is (almost) a waste of time.
• Logistics are HUGE. Being able to buy good ammo at 9:30 PM on the night before Opening Day from a big-box store clerk who doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground has a charm all its own.
• Factory ammo is more accurate than I thought. Some military 308 and 30-06 is almost as good.
• Handloading may not be worth it. I can often buy excellent ammo cheaper than I can reload it.
• Not every rifle shoots every load well.
• Varget.
• Ammo panics making having a 308 AND a 30-06 a good idea. Set up the 308 for 150-grain bullets and the 30-06 for 180-grain bullets. With a 3” max ordinate, they have the same trajectory.
• Roosevelt used a 150-grain FMJ at 2,700 fps when he took a 30-06 to Africa. That trip and that load made the 30-06’s reputation as a big-game rifle, and it has only gotten better since then.

SHOOTING
• Bench technique matters. Field technique matters more.
• Once you leave the bench and compare two rifles on practical tasks from realistic positions, you find that the differences between them are not what you thought.
• When POI really matters, use a level to hang targets.
• Paper targets can sidetrack you by getting you to focus too much on group size. Steel tells you instantly whether you hit or missed.

HUNTING
• Obsessing over rifles is fun but a bunch of other things are more important.
• Don‘t overlook stuff you can do for free, like dry-firing. The list is surprisingly long.
• A consistent 2 MOA rifle will put a lot of meat on the table. 1.5 MOA is good enough. 1.25 MOA is really good. 1 MOA is ideal and not too expensive. Sub-MOA is nice but it costs a lot of money to get there.

OTHER GEAR
• Leica binoculars and rangefinders are worth the cost. Keep the binos handy and use them—game can show up at any moment.
• Use the rangefinder to create a mental range card for the area where we expected to see game.
• The guide knows what he’s doing. Trust him.
• Learn to use a sling, shooting sticks, bipods, and a ruck in the field. Figure out beforehand if they cause POI shifts.


Okie John

You're talking about Allen Day. He was an opinionated old cuss, but he was a wealth of information and he left us way too soon.

Here's a link to every post he ever made here: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/userposts/id/3607/view/posts/page/1

When hunting season is over every year, I hit that link and start checking my thinking. There is MUCH to be learned there, even if I don't agree with all of it.


Okie John

My most expensive rifle, a Krieger-built 6.5-06AI, on an Interarms Mark X action, shoots very, very well. So does my $295 used Savage FXP3 .243 Win.

Expensive rifles are.... expensive.

I think for me -

Buy/build a rifle for what you DO not what you think you're going to do.

So many rifles are bought because "Someday I'm going to go out west/AK" and they end up being over cartridged for 99% of what they really do use it for. I had to have that 300 WM because someday I was going west, but I never really enjoyed shooting it and never went west. Sold it off. 22250 for coyotes in TX etc. Always something. Rarely used.

I used to have a pile of rifles and the like but I've gone down to what I really do 90% of the time. Montana in 7-08, Ruger 10/22, AR15 in 223, Glock G19, Winchester SuperX3, and a Vaquero in 45Colt. I'm 99% sure I could do all the hunting I'll ever realistically do with that. And do it well. Tho, I think like a lot of people - I still have the AK itch and if I moved there, I would probably add something larger to the mix for the big bears. A MRC in 375 maybe but that would be it.

I started reloading in 1974 with a Lee Loader to save money. Looking around my reloading room about 15 years ago, I realized that I haven't probably saved that much! But I don't regret the investment....I enjoy that task too much, and it is indeed a great hobby. But I know I could make fine ammo with the equipment I owned by 1980. Everything purchased since then is fun, but not necessary!

Seems to be where I am now, too. 260, 7mm-08, and 308 get carried a bunch. Funny, they all kill about the same...

Expensive lesson? My first Winchester shotgun cost $63 in the box, out the door. I was young, it was a M50 Featherweight and I knew it was all the gun I'd ever need. Little did I realize it was just the beginning.

One of my coworkers learned a hard lesson last weekend. He left a laser bore sighter in the end of his bore and fired the first shot. Brand new stainless savage 300wm barrel looked like a peeled banana.... Luckily he didn't get hurt.... I'm also glad I wasn't around....

Damn! You and your buddy were very lucky....Hb

High dollar scopes are a waist of money.....high dollar bino's are a necessity

Reloading is for recreation, not to save money

The meat you put on the table cost more than the cow or pig you could have bought from the farmer ☺

The next best fad in cartridges is money spent thinking your getting something that's never been done but was done 100 years ago



Trystan

Expensive lesson? Melvin Forbes makes one hell of a LW. And it was worth every penny.

That pretty much sums it up!!

What do you consider a "high dollar scope?" With the quality and accuracy of some factory rifles you can get for $600 these days, for shooting any distance the scope should probably cost more than the rifle.

I’ve learned that I always like a new rifle. It’s like getting a new girlfriend. Once the newness wears off, I want another new one.

Customs and semi-customs are almost always over priced and way over rated by many hobbyists and professionals.

Buy a Blaser, Tikka or Howa/Vanguard or something similar in 7mm, .30-06 or .300 with a good scope and steel Weaver style basis and quality rings, Talleys or Dual Dovetails. Then, get 500 pieces of brass, a few different powders and bullets. Work up an accurate load and wear the brass out hunting the world and shooting from field positions.

Alternatively, buy three new Ruger 77s in the cartridge of your choice and one scope. Mount the scope and switch it between rifles until you find the one that shoots. Sell the other two with an honest assessment of accuracy at a loss and keep the shooter and do the above.

I still have a M 50 - not ftwt - 30" & 26". I need a gun bearer!!


Jerry

Put a good amount of money into your hunting clothes and boots, you could have the most costly rifle ever and be uncomfortable as heck in cheap boots and clothing.

That last paragraph has really got me thinking...

What I've learned (so far...):

* "Best" is located right next to the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow.

* All my shooting "stuff" can easily be replaced. Time in the field with good friends is priceless

* Quality matters most in: boots, binocs, clothing, rifle/scope (in that order)

* Excellent accuracy can make me overlook a whole lotta schidt I don't like about a particular rifle

FC

Very well said.

An accurate M77 MKII or Hawkeye is a great thing. I have had about 50/50 odds or a little better regarding accuracy with the newer Rugers and the ones that have shot have done really well. Mine have seemed to be either 3" guns or 3/4" or better. I have tried to turn a 3" Ruger into a 3/4" Ruger but so far have been unsuccessful.

I like this, and, wholeheartedly agree.





You got off easy.

Have to disagree on a couple points.

1. "High dollar scopes" have their place, especially for long range shooting. I used a $39 Burris 3-9x Sportview (that I probably paid too much for at the time) for 20+ years. It never failed me, although the optics were not very good. My most "expensive" scope is a used Leupold Vari-X III that has been refittted by Leupold with a vertical MOA knob and their 'Varmint Hunter' reticle for another $250 - so about $600 total. It sits on my favorite rifle, a 1989 Ruger M77 tanger that I bought in 2004 for $400. It came with Leupold M8-4x in the rings and I used $250 I got from selling a Savage .22-250 with a burned out barrel for $250. As i had purchased another M8-4x a month earlier for $100, one I am still using today, I figure the rifle cost me $50. ($400 - $250 - $100 = $50). I would love to have a scope with both vertical and horizontal knobs and great glass on my 6.5-06AI, which was purpose built for long range shooting.

2. Reloading can save you tons of money - or not. I got into shotgun reloading only to discover I was not shooting enough to justify the cost, time or space consumed in my reloading area. A case of shells at Wal-Mart before a dove hunt was a much better option so I sold all the reloading stuff and purchased a used stainless Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Mag. I currently reload for 15 rifle cartridges and 6 handgun cartridges. At any given time I have about $4,000 worth of reloaded ammo sitting on my shelves.

Replacing the reloaded ammo I have on the shelf plus all the brass, primers, powder, bullets and equipment I have would easily exceed $7,000 at today's prices - but I can easily reload ammo for about half the cost of factory ammo - often much less. Reloading has saved me many thousands of dollars over the years. (The other option, which was to shoot far less, was not acceptable.) Many of my handloads have no commercial equivalent - at any cost. Even when I only reloaded for my 7mm RM I was saving money.

Granted, reloading isn't for everyone.

No such thing as building the perfect rifle. Your opinion and preference will change over time.

The ABSOLUTE MOST EXPENSIVE LESSON is continuing to read this site and have a bunch of "enablers" convince others that they need this or that.

There are no cheap hookers. Just cheap penicillin.

My lessons fall in line with what a lot have already posted here:

1. I have spent WAY too much money playing musical rifle chairs...Selling one to fund another, buying the new flavor of the month, building the "ultimate rifle", ect. I bet over the last 10 years I have owned at one point or another 30 different rifles and am currently at 4 (1 is my sons, 1 is my wifes, 2 for me) I would hate to add up the total amount of money I lost in all those transactions. My son has his 6.5 creedmoor I built for him which should/could last him a lifetime if he wishes. My wife has taken permanent ownership of the 270, and I have a 280 Ackley and a 375 H&H that I both love. We are covered. (Yes we have a 22 and shotguns)

My focus has really changed, especially this year, and going forward I see myself spending less on rifles and ammo and more on hunts. With my son being able to legally chase big game this coming spring, I want to be able to spend my money on hunts with him as he grows up. I also have less than zero luck when it comes to big game draws here in Idaho, so if I want to chase Goats, Sheep, Moose, ect - I am going to have go out of state/out of country and pay for it.lol

2. Its ok to be an optics snob - on the binocular side. I have Leica Geovids HD 10X42 and would pay twice the going rate if need be to get them if I had to. To me they are the best hunting tool I own and I always try to get the best glass I can afford. My wife has Tract Toric 8x42's and my son Zeiss Terra 8x32. BUT when it comes to rifle scopes, I don't need 1-3k in a scope. I could realistically do all the hunting I am ever going to do with a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 (my favorite scope). The most expensive scope I have is a Swaro 4-12X50 BT on my 280 ackley, and while its nice and I am sure not getting rid of it - it doesn't offer that much more than a $3-400 conquest. Heck, a $200 3-9x40 leupold or burris would cover most of it to be honest... I don't really have a need for a NF, S&B, or anything equivalent - no matter what crazy idea or project pops into my head from these forums...lol

1) I cleanly killed decent sized piles of game animals with a rifle that I later learned shot like crap. I should have never started shooting paper with it.

2) In the future, If I have a rifle that doesn't shoot to my expectations I will send it down the road before I spend hundreds of dollars on load development, stock work, cryo-treating, etc.

3) I like customs and will continue to buy/build them.

4) I like used factory rifles and will continue to buy them

This is good info for some people. For those who really like optics is does not hold water. For some the scope is only a glorified sight. For others it is a very fun toy to top off a fun toy.

I think of many of the adults that I grew up around and they all had lots of guns. Maybe two of the adults had few guns.

I remember looking at an entire false wall of lever action rifles(probably more than 200) at Dean Wilson Sr.'s place. Dean was a fur buyer and travelled throughout Alaska. I believe that when he died of Parkinson's disease that he gave rifles to all of his long time customers. I think my father got one of his lever action Marlin 1893 30/30s. I own it today. I shot a lot of vermin and killed a wolf with that rifle. It has an uncanny ability to take out running or flying game.

I also remember Jim Harris's gun auction. His kids wanted to sell and liquidate his entire collection. Jim Harris hunted all over the world. Jim was a school teacher but he put together a magnificent collection of guns that collectors came from all over the nation. He had well over 250 guns yielded more than 250,000 dollars. I bought my wife one of his Jay Frazer Custom Mexican Mauser sporters in 6.5X55. It is a peach and a great rifle. Its a little heavy but it doesn't kick much either.

I never got to look at Michael Petrov's collection but it must have been magnificent. His family kept many of his more important pieces.
Phil Shoemaker purchased many of his nicer pieces. Phil must have one of the nicest collection of rifles in the world. He has also hunted throughout the entire world. He has some beautiful rifles. I think that Phil could work with APHA to create a state of Alaska Rifle Museum like Cody.

Even my father had more than 100 rifles and handguns after he had given his friends and relatives guns. His notion of never selling a gun unless you doubled your money really is something that I have doubled down on. He liked both Remingtons and Winchesters and Colts and Smiths. Many of his colts were stolen. He didn't have dementia but he had a lot of people who worked on his house and he had probably 40-80 guns stolen over the last 15 years.

The thing about these people is that you can tell from their collections that they lived well. Phil continues to live well following this course. Right now he is a model for younger generations.

Of the people who are my age, I can only think of one guy who has volume and he is a custom gun maker.

I don't think Jack O'Connor had huge numbers of guns. But he had truly valuable and wonderful guns.

I really don't have a huge list of guns that I would want to acquire. But I do have a list. I could live perfectly for the rest of my life with what I presently have.

Expensive lessons I've tried to learn from:
Be careful what you buy off the internet. I have a couple of rifles that are great now that I have worked on them but were not quite what the seller represented.
Get a rifle in an action that you like in a caliber that you like and have the stock fitted to you. Unless your body is "average" it will become your favorite and you will never regret it.
Don't ever go to Africa on a safari. It will become an obsession and you will want to sell everything you have to go back.

def.of a woman = greatest money reducing agent known to mankind.

one might lose a chunk of money on a rifle they sell, but it won't then have lawyers
keep trying to get money out of ya!..

Ringman,

I agree with you. Someday when I have a bigger budget I'm going to spend several thousand on a nice scope. On my current budget that is soon to change my quote holds true for myself


Trystan

It took a lot of experimentation to figure out what I like/wanted/works, and that was money well spent. Keeps a guy out of trouble and for the most part, it isn't too much money actually "lost."

A new $2000 Benelli shotgun won't kill a dove any deader than that old Remington 11-48 will.

Dakota, I'm not being obtuse -- on purpose < grin.

I have done a LOT of experimenting and spent a LOT of money on diff rifles and cartridges to find out that the new stuff
doesn't do better OR as well as what I liked 35 years ago.

I'd of been $$$$$ ahead by staying with my 6mm Rem, 270 W, & 7 mm RM.

However I'd agree that ALL THAT kept me busy, occupied, and out of trouble.

Jerry

I'm not a huge ruger guy myself... but that could be for any rifle, instead of spending 3K on reworking a remington or custom action into something you want, find the closest thing that remington makes (probably not too far off spec wise) and buy as many of them as you can afford and shoot them all and sell the ones that don't shoot.

Instead of getting a Weatherby Mk V, buy a half dozen vanguards and do the same...

heck... you could buy 3-4 real cheap models of anything, and your flavor of McMillan edge stock and shoot them all and then bed the one that shoots the best and still come out ahead... in both money and accuracy!!!

Agreed. I tend to lean toward Howa/Vanguards and Tikkas regarding cheaper rifles and think buying three would probably be enough to find a really good one. For that matter, one may be enough, particularly one Tikka.

Coyote Hunter,

I was under the impression that we were commenting on what proved to be expensive for ourselves individually not what we feel would be a waist of money for others. My comment was directed only at myself just to be clear ☺ Regardless of that you make some very good points and there's nothing wrong with that. ☺☺☺



Trystan

Now that is profound. Never heard that line before. At my age, I'd rather pour money into rifles that shoot well. Age does that to some.

1. Never, I mean NEVER, ask a hunting forum for the best XXX on the market. After 15 pages, the OP has gone on to something else and you'll have 75 different people arguing about this item or that item when all it takes is to find what works for YOU.
2. Magnum anything never killed an animal any deader or any farther than a person that knows how THEIR rifle shoots. (Practice, in other words)
3. Going after the current fad is a losing proposition from the start.
4. Pick 4 calibers/cartridges and stick with those.
5. Scopes matter, the price of the scope not so much. Pick the scope for the cartridge and hunting conditions and learn to use it and the rifle.
6. If you're collecting, pick ONE or TWO types and collect just those. The person that dies with the most firearms is still dead.

I know there are others.

That if I'd of stayed and never strayed from the 7 mm Rem Mag I bought when 15 years old and my old 870 I'd have a hell of a lot more money to spend on liquor, women and going hunting but to be fair the money spent on women still was wasted. MB

Most expensive lesson I learned: Not ducking out the back door instead of saying "I do."

Most expensive gun lesson: "Oh, it won't take much to make this old rifle as good as new."

Trade if for a Featherweight, you won't need no stinkin' gun bearer.

26" IC and 28" FC that shoots shot like a rifle. Have made quail turn into a fluff of spray and feathers with that one and now you know why I have the IC. The FC barrel is also a master of the Forster slug out to about 75 yds or so.

Thanks for the offer Dan.
I read this earlier today and have taken some time to consider it.

I suppose I'll keep this one for sentimental reasons. I & my Dad had M 50s in the 60s - 70s when
we bird hunted. This one was his, so......

Thanks again and I believe you'll understand.

Jerry