Appears that everyone making them has the twist correct and the available ammo looks top notch. So based on my vast experience of reading on the Internet and never shooting one, here's my guess on how they rank:
Barrett Fieldcraft
Kimber Montana
Tikka T3
Savage
Howa
Ruger RAR
Fill in the blanks. No, I ain't buying one.
16B,
Remington 700
I believe it's an 8-twist. It'd actually be at the top of my list, although the Barrett is tempting for lightweight. Not sure about anyone else's.
Jason
Jason,
Serious question here - in a remington vs barrett comparison - outside of price, where do you see the remington having the advantage?
Where is the Christiansen Mesa?
I have the R700 4th at best, and at least behind the Barrett, Kimber and Howa.
The 700’s greatest asset is universality of after market options.
15 years ago I would have rated Remington first, now I rate them last
Would put Tikka 1st, Howa 2nd.. then all the American models.
For what purpose?
All different guns are. Built and excel at different things. And each manufacturer listed has multiple models that fill diffferent roles.
It's a genuine shame Barrett stranded their Creedmoor with a 21" buggy whip barrel, instead of the nearly perfect contour they put on the long action Fieldcraft... I'd have been an owner at a 22-24" no.2 contour.
Only Creemoor that I've had any experience with is the Howa. It's as accurate a rifle as I'd ever want. I'm not going to buy a boatload of rifles in the 6.5 just so I can have them, but if I do buy another, it will probably be a Remington.
Keep g
Would put Tikka 1st, Howa 2nd.. then all the American models.
Predictable drivel from a Socialist, Anti- American reactionary twit.
It's a genuine shame Barrett stranded their Creedmoor with a 21" buggy whip barrel, instead of the nearly perfect contour they put on the long action Fieldcraft... I'd have been an owner at a 22-24" no.2 contour.
They are light, compact, and ridiculously accurate in the factory config. How would making it heavier and longer help the situation?
It's a genuine shame Barrett stranded their Creedmoor with a 21" buggy whip barrel, instead of the nearly perfect contour they put on the long action Fieldcraft... I'd have been an owner at a 22-24" no.2 contour.
They are light, compact, and ridiculously accurate in the factory config. How would making it heavier and longer help the situation?
It wouldn't.
And Brad's justified bias towards muzzle heavy rifles aside, the only thing a No 2 weight tube would accomplish on a Barrett SA would be folks NOT buying them because they were not a light as a Kimber Montana.
I think in terms of basic specs, Barrett got their Fieldcrafts spot on.
Keep g
Would put Tikka 1st, Howa 2nd.. then all the American models.
Predictable drivel from a Socialist, Anti- American reactionary twit.
Hey.. take a look at the "quality" being produced by American companies these days. Its S*it.. maybe Kimber is up there, if that particular rifle is well made. Kimberroulette anyone?
While Tikka has made the T3 model, for FIFTEEN YEARS, using CNC machines (not that CNC is anything special) but they have produced a consistent superior product to anything American manufacturers has done for nearly 20 years. If they spent 10min "polishing everything pretty" it would sell for twice what its sells for now.
I won´t even look at a Rem 700 unless its 30+ years old. Savage.. well its savage.
Sauer 100 XT. Very well-built rifle and amazingly accurate with every load I've tried.
700's still have a lot going for them. Parts, easy to smith/rebarrel, simple, available, etc For a sporter or heavy rifle they still have all the basic stuff going for them but Barrett and Kimber (and Forbes) have made it hard for me to go with a 700 on a hunting rifle.
I'd go with 16b's list with the 700 somewhere mid-way through it.
Barrett's Fieldcraft did a lot of things right from the start and is going to be tough to beat, especially the 3" mag box. I've been shooting a 21" Fieldcraft 6.5 and really like the little rifle. Like Brad, I prefer a 22" sporter contour the same as their long action but that's just my preference.....if lightweight is the main goal, it's hard not to use a thin contour to satisfy the majority of customers. For offhand shots I like the extra couple of oz's balancing slightly forward.
I'm wondering how many of these manufacturer's will adopt the 6.5 prc and if it will become as popular as the creedmore!
It's a genuine shame Barrett stranded their Creedmoor with a 21" buggy whip barrel, instead of the nearly perfect contour they put on the long action Fieldcraft... I'd have been an owner at a 22-24" no.2 contour.
They are light, compact, and ridiculously accurate in the factory config. How would making it heavier and longer help the situation?
It wouldn't.
And Brad's justified bias towards muzzle heavy rifles aside, the only thing a No 2 weight tube would accomplish on a Barrett SA would be folks NOT buying them because they were not a light as a Kimber Montana.
I think in terms of basic specs, Barrett got their Fieldcrafts spot on.
I'm with Brad on that. We're talking oz's not lb's.....
Not that big of a deal either way and it seems Barret would still be miles ahead if they did.
It's a genuine shame Barrett stranded their Creedmoor with a 21" buggy whip barrel, instead of the nearly perfect contour they put on the long action Fieldcraft... I'd have been an owner at a 22-24" no.2 contour.
They are light, compact, and ridiculously accurate in the factory config. How would making it heavier and longer help the situation?
It wouldn't
A little more forward heft won't help? Maybe shooting deer out of a treestand it wouldn't. I guess those armed forces issuing sniper rifles should use 21" no.0 contour barrels because being able to punch small three shot groups at the bench is all that matters...
I have a variety of Kimber MT's. My lightest is a 7-08, scoped with sling and rounds is 6lb's 6oz's. I have a 270 that is 6lb's 11oz's. The difference in the way that 5oz's helps to settle the rifle down in field positions is noticeable in rifle's that light.
Two days ago I was at a little over 9,000' climbing in knee deep snow searching for a bull. Despite being in great shape, it's exhausting all day. Were I to suddenly get an opportunity at 2, 3, 400 yards I would gladly trade 4 or 8 oz's extra rifle weight to help make that rifle settle down better in field positions with an elevated pulse.
Light is all fine and good to a point, but it can be too much of a good thing. Having been at this for a while, I've found something around 6lbs 10 oz's to no more than 7 lbs all-up weight (scope, sling, rounds) with a bit more weight forward is a nice compromise for a backpack rifle. Light enough to pack, heavy enough to settle down. A no.2-ish barrel like on the long action Fieldcraft hits that sweet spot, though I'd cut it to 22-23". The SA Fieldcraft does not hit that sweet spot.
I do plan on building a 6.5 Creedmoor on a MT action and will specify the barrel finish around .610" at 22". I wish all the MT's had been issued with no.2 contours.
Well said Brad. Melvin Forbes got it right 30 years ago.
Seems like you get what you pay for in all the rifles.
It's a genuine shame Barrett stranded their Creedmoor with a 21" buggy whip barrel, instead of the nearly perfect contour they put on the long action Fieldcraft... I'd have been an owner at a 22-24" no.2 contour.
They are light, compact, and ridiculously accurate in the factory config. How would making it heavier and longer help the situation?
It wouldn't
A little more forward heft won't help? Maybe shooting deer out of a treestand it wouldn't. I guess those armed forces issuing sniper rifles should use 21" no.0 contour barrels because being able to punch small three shot groups at the bench is all that matters...
I have a variety of Kimber MT's. My lightest is a 7-08, scoped with sling and rounds is 6lb's 6oz's. I have a 270 that is 6lb's 11oz's. The difference in the way that 5oz's helps to settle the rifle down in field positions is noticeable in rifle's that light.
Two days ago I was at a little over 9,000' climbing in knee deep snow searching for a bull. Despite being in great shape, it's exhausting all day. Were I to suddenly get an opportunity at 2, 3, 400 yards I would gladly trade 4 or 8 oz's extra rifle weight to help make that rifle settle down better in field positions with an elevated pulse.
Light is all fine and good to a point, but it can be too much of a good thing. Having been at this for a while, I've found something around 6lbs 10 oz's to no more than 7 lbs all-up weight (scope, sling, rounds) with a bit more weight forward is a nice compromise for a backpack rifle. Light enough to pack, heavy enough to settle down. A no.2-ish barrel like on the long action Fieldcraft hits that sweet spot, though I'd cut it to 22-23". The SA Fieldcraft does not hit that sweet spot.
I do plan on building a 6.5 Creedmoor on a MT action and will specify the barrel finish around .610" at 22". I wish all the MT's had been issued with no.2 contours.
Great post.
In my opinion, Barrett went for "as light as possible" with the short action Fieldcraft rifles, when they would've been much better off going for better balance with the #2.
I had an ULA with a #1 contour and to be perfectly honest, I wasn't impressed with the balance. It worked fine for a rested shot on a big game sized target. If breathing hard, as is typical during a physical hunt, or if I was shooting at a coyote sized target, the few ounce saved with the #1 contour was a hindrance.
As an aside, when initially testing a new to me rifle I try to work up my heart rate via a short run or some push-ups, then shoot the rifle without a rest in prone, sitting, and kneeling. It's amazing how a rifle that balances further forward settles down in these situations. The results show up on the target; more hits on target shows up in my confidence level, and really shows up when it comes time to fill tags.
From a rest, especially prone, I notice it little....when shooting off-hand/unsupported the difference in a #1 vs #2 is dramatic for me.
My Bergara is feeling left out here. The action needed a little smoothing, however, once it broke in, it's very nice. Not pretty, but I like the heft and balance. Hope to have the opportunity to use it this year.
Old70
From a rest, especially prone, I notice it little....when shooting off-hand/unsupported the difference in a #1 vs #2 is dramatic for me.
Same for me and since 90% of my shots are taken offhand while still hunting afoot in steep terrain I've got ZERO use for ultra light rifles or muzzle light rifles. The difference is HUGE when your heart rate is elevated and you haven't the time for a rest.
I have zero problem taking an offhand shot with the Kimber Creed with a pack on, in steep timber, and with an elevated heart rate at a moving target. I even chamber a round and flip caps.
Where is the Christiansen Mesa?
I agree. Very nice rifle. Outstanding accuracy, fit and finish.
Looks like Savage is the only one in OP's list offering LH Creeds... Will probably build a custom LH 6.5x55 before I consider a Creed...
Appears that everyone making them has the twist correct and the available ammo looks top notch. So based on my vast experience of reading on the Internet and never shooting one, here's my guess on how they rank:
Barrett Fieldcraft
Kimber Montana
Tikka T3
Savage
Howa
Ruger RAR
Fill in the blanks. No, I ain't buying one.
The V2 that I bought on 02/25/14 remains the most accurate, straight out of the box, sub-$1K, rifle that I've yet to own.
Looks like Savage is the only one in OP's list offering LH Creeds... Will probably build a custom LH 6.5x55 before I consider a Creed...
I was kinda thinking guys would cut and paste the list and add/shuffle where needed.
Looks like Savage is the only one in OP's list offering LH Creeds... Will probably build a custom LH 6.5x55 before I consider a Creed...
I was kinda thinking guys would cut and paste the list and add/shuffle where needed.
Of the right handed rifles that I have owned, only change I would make is to move the Kimber to the top of the list...
Kimber Montana
Barrett Fieldcraft
Tikka T3
Savage
Howa
Ruger RAR
Brad comments in regards to barrel weight and balance are spot on in my opinion. Light for the sake of light without regard for balance makes for a rifle that is a compromise in the first place even more so.
My ideal lightweight would involve a kimber MT in 270 or similar with a 1" shank barrel in something like a Rock Creek #2 cut to 23". I would also try to get the trigger pull in the 1-1.5 lb. range.
My Kimber Montana has a 23" barrel that is .58" at the muzzle. With a .338 bore it's got a nice feel to it. A 6.5 bore would have a bit more heft to it and would settle fine.
Looks like Savage is the only one in OP's list offering LH Creeds... Will probably build a custom LH 6.5x55 before I consider a Creed...
RAR predator is now in lefty creed..
BWalker and Brad,
Have either of you spent time with the 6.5 creed Barrett? I have, and find the balance to be about perfect. I don't find it muzzle light at all. The balance point on the creed is right at the end of the action - roughly 1 cm in front of the action screw. Furthermore, I wish the long action had been bobbed at 23", as I do find that to be a bit muzzle heavy. Balance point on the 6.5 swede is roughly 4 cm in front of the action screw - a bit much for my taste.
To each there own, and if you have handled them and still feel this way forgive me, but you may be pleasantly surprised...
1. Barrett
2. Tikka T3X Lite
The others mentioned by the OP aren't in their category simply because of mag box constraints.
BWalker and Brad,
Have either of you spent time with the 6.5 creed Barrett? I have, and find the balance to be about perfect. I don't find it muzzle light at all. The balance point on the creed is right at the end of the action - roughly 1 cm in front of the action screw. Furthermore, I wish the long action had been bobbed at 23", as I do find that to be a bit muzzle heavy. Balance point on the 6.5 swede is roughly 4 cm in front of the action screw - a bit much for my taste.
To each there own, and if you have handled them and still feel this way forgive me, but you may be pleasantly surprised...
Good info.
What scope and mounts were used in determining these balance points?
This was determined pre scope and rings. Obviously scope choice may impact final balance point.
Yep. IMO, balance is best determined "ready to hunt" with scope, mounts, and a full magazine.
The balance point shifts backwards quite a ways in fighting form.
I have a first generation Ruger RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor that is the most accurate rifle I've ever owned. First day I owned it I took three shots to sight it in at 100, shot one three shot group, and then took it to the 200 yd range. First three shots with Hornady factory ammo put three shots I could cover with a dime.
I hunted with it from a stand and filled my tags with neck shots. I'll admit it would be pretty heavy to lug around all day long stalking game.
Love the 6.5s and filled lots of tags with a Tikka in 6.5x55.
Yep. IMO, balance is best determined "ready to hunt" with scope, mounts, and a full magazine.
The balance point shifts backwards quite a ways in fighting form.
Indeed. And in that form, the creed settles very nicely in hand. I'll try to compare "fighting form" and report back.
I have a Vanguard and a couple Savages. I like the Savage better.
My Bergara is feeling left out here. The action needed a little smoothing, however, once it broke in, it's very nice. Not pretty, but I like the heft and balance. Hope to have the opportunity to use it this year.
Old70
I'll second this. I love my Bergara Hunter - it's like an improved Rem 700. The slightly heavier barrel contour seems to help the groups as well. This is my one and only CM - so far so good!
It's a genuine shame Barrett stranded their Creedmoor with a 21" buggy whip barrel, instead of the nearly perfect contour they put on the long action Fieldcraft... I'd have been an owner at a 22-24" no.2 contour.
Nah, the contour is excellent. Mine shoots way outside of it's weight class. In fact, no other factory rifle I've ever seen or handled even comes close to holding a candle to the Fieldcraft. They are head and shoulders above a Montana (and should be for $1600). They have pretty much rendered custom rifles useless to me...
Tanner
It's a genuine shame Barrett stranded their Creedmoor with a 21" buggy whip barrel, instead of the nearly perfect contour they put on the long action Fieldcraft... I'd have been an owner at a 22-24" no.2 contour.
Nah, the contour is excellent. Mine shoots way outside of it's weight class. In fact, no other factory rifle I've ever seen or handled even comes close to holding a candle to the Fieldcraft. They are head and shoulders above a Montana (and should be for $1600). They have pretty much rendered custom rifles useless to me...
Tanner
I've put a lot of rounds through a 6.5 Fieldcraft the last couple of months and I really like the little rifle. Way more accurate than it should be and I'm with you on nothing else coming close to it in factory form.....except the long action Fieldcraft, which loses the generous mag box. Everyone has preferences, I'd prefer the short action have the same contour as the long action and cut at 22".
I agree with Tanner. I have one in 6.5 CM and it shoots 1/2-3/4 moa at 600 yards with factory or handloads. Shoots way better than it should no matter how you hold it. I haven't shot it off hand, but have dry fired it alot and seem to be able to hold it as good as other rifles I own. I've never held a LA FC, but the short magazine length killed it for me. I was tempted to go with the 6.5 Swede, but the short magazine length was a killer. I'm not sure why they made the SA with plenty of room but not the LA?
I'm not sure why they made the SA with plenty of room but not the LA?
I believe they were sticking closely to Mr. Forbes original footprint. If they's stretched it a tad and gone 700 mag box length I think it would be untouchable, especially with something like a .280AI. It's not horrid as is, but it could have been better.
It's a genuine shame Barrett stranded their Creedmoor with a 21" buggy whip barrel, instead of the nearly perfect contour they put on the long action Fieldcraft... I'd have been an owner at a 22-24" no.2 contour.
Nah, the contour is excellent. Mine shoots way outside of it's weight class. In fact, no other factory rifle I've ever seen or handled even comes close to holding a candle to the Fieldcraft. They are head and shoulders above a Montana (and should be for $1600). They have pretty much rendered custom rifles useless to me...
Tanner
How'd you scope yours?
It's a genuine shame Barrett stranded their Creedmoor with a 21" buggy whip barrel, instead of the nearly perfect contour they put on the long action Fieldcraft... I'd have been an owner at a 22-24" no.2 contour.
Nah, the contour is excellent. Mine shoots way outside of it's weight class. In fact, no other factory rifle I've ever seen or handled even comes close to holding a candle to the Fieldcraft. They are head and shoulders above a Montana (and should be for $1600). They have pretty much rendered custom rifles useless to me...
Tanner
How'd you scope yours?
10x42 MQ in SWFA rings on a rail.
RL-17 and 140 VLDs are doing better than 2800 and shooting pretty wicked...
Tanner
I agree with Tanner. I have one in 6.5 CM and it shoots 1/2-3/4 moa at 600 yards with factory or handloads. Shoots way better than it should no matter how you hold it. I haven't shot it off hand, but have dry fired it alot and seem to be able to hold it as good as other rifles I own. I've never held a LA FC, but the short magazine length killed it for me. I was tempted to go with the 6.5 Swede, but the short magazine length was a killer. I'm not sure why they made the SA with plenty of room but not the LA?
The long action magazine has plenty of length for the 6.5x55.
Well said Brad. Melvin Forbes got it right 30 years ago.
Melvin suggests to build the model 20 Creedmoor with a 22" number 1 contour barrel with a 1:8 twist, but the difference is Melvin builds his rifles so that they balance properly to steady the rifle, it's all about the balance.
That being said I think a model 20 Nula with a 1:8 twist, 22" #1 contour barrel 6.5 Creedmoor would be the perfect Creedmoor.
Anyone tried the Christensen Mesa. Hard not to like. Mine shoots whatever I feed it, love the ergo's, not sure how I'd improve it.
I agree with Tanner. I have one in 6.5 CM and it shoots 1/2-3/4 moa at 600 yards with factory or handloads. Shoots way better than it should no matter how you hold it. I haven't shot it off hand, but have dry fired it alot and seem to be able to hold it as good as other rifles I own. I've never held a LA FC, but the short magazine length killed it for me. I was tempted to go with the 6.5 Swede, but the short magazine length was a killer. I'm not sure why they made the SA with plenty of room but not the LA?
The long action magazine has plenty of length for the 6.5x55.
Stuffed with Lapua brass and Scenars would make it quite the winner I think. I know it'd cover alot of bases for me.
Jason,
Serious question here - in a remington vs barrett comparison - outside of price, where do you see the remington having the advantage?
I just like the 700 action, it's light enough for me, and there is plenty of aftermarket.
No aftermarket needed with a Barrett..
No aftermarket needed with a Barrett..
I agree, but don't have one.
The point of my original post, 2nd post in this thread, was the fact that a guy can get a factory 700 chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor now. That option wasn't on your list. And I know several people that didn't realize that Remington is chambering it now.
If I wanted "light", I'd certainly be looking at a Barrett. But, a 700 would do what I want/need.
Jason
Trying to decide what to sell to get 18-in. Fieldcraft 6.5.
It'll handle about 85 percent of my outdoor chores for approaching dotage.
The market will be flooded with used kimbers...
But, is there Barrett “roulette”??? Grin
10x42 MQ in SWFA rings on a rail.
RL-17 and 140 VLDs are doing better than 2800 and shooting pretty wicked...
Tanner
How have the 140 VLDs performed on game? May try 130s or 140 in my 6.5. Factory Federal ammo with 130 target Bergers shoots amazing in my 6.5.
Someone with more knowledge than me of the bullet told me to use that 130 berger hybrid (loaded in the Federal factory gold medal match) with no worries at all.... At a reported MV of 2875, it should be great for deer hunting.
Medium to heavy for caliber Berger VLD's have impressed me immensely on game, small and big.
No aftermarket needed with a Barrett..
I agree, but don't have one.
The point of my original post, 2nd post in this thread, was the fact that a guy can get a factory 700 chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor now. That option wasn't on your list. And I know several people that didn't realize that Remington is chambering it now.
If I wanted "light", I'd certainly be looking at a Barrett. But, a 700 would do what I want/need.
Jason
Yeah, didn't know. Plenty of magbox? 20" sporter in a McMillan mountain rifle pattern would be nice. But I wouldn't bother. Just me.
Sportsmans Warehouse finally has the T3x Superlite in stock in the Creed. I'd put that somewhere towards the top of the list.
It's hard not to interpret this thread as high praise, again, for Tikka.
Yes, I own one. I like it.
Thank goodness Barrett does not make a LH model ...
I had three range sessions so far with a Kimber Montana and a Tikka T3x in 6.5 CM competing with each other. The Tikka does beat the Kimber but there are some individual great groups for each one. Today's sesson was challenging as there was a quartering in northwest wind at 20+. Holding on the left edge of the 5 inch square, the Tikka put three at 1 1/4" at 200 yards.
All 5 shots for the Tikka were touching at 100 yards. The Montana wasn't far behind and in its defense, it is a harder rifle to shoot well with. It weighs 6#'s with a 2.5-8x36 held in place by Talley LW's. It is skim bedded with a 2.5# trigger. On the other hand, the Tikka with a 3-9 x40 with Talleys weighs 7# 3 oz. and a 2 3/4# trigger. H4350 and 140 Acc's deliver 2650fps +/- with RL17 soon to be employed. Once again I must admit that the Tikka delivered quite well right out of the box. But the Kimber is close on its heels - being 1# 3 oz. lighter.
Its funny - shooting a Montana in .270Win. to allow CM barrels to cool is like getting "beat up". We'll see what RL 17 does. I should add that the 143 ELD-X's were quite good as well.
I used to post plenty of photos but I no longer have the patience to learn some new fangled system.
Yeah, didn't know. Plenty of magbox? 20" sporter in a McMillan mountain rifle pattern would be nice. But I wouldn't bother. Just me.
I hear what you're saying.
I wouldn't be afraid to grab a 700 SPS in 6.5 Creedmoor and shoot it with the noodle stock. I'd rather have the 700 over some of those others, but that is just my opinion. I might be biased since I've done well recently with an XCR and SPS with the factory noodle stocks.
That said, I'm more interested in a 700 SPS Tactical to drop into a chassis. Magbox isn't a concern with binderless mags.
Jason
Anyone tried the Christensen Mesa. Hard not to like. Mine shoots whatever I feed it, love the ergo's, not sure how I'd improve it.
I handled one today. Felt nice and the price wasn't crazy.
I had three range sessions so far with a Kimber Montana and a Tikka T3x in 6.5 CM competing with each other. The Tikka does beat the Kimber but there are some individual great groups for each one. Today's sesson was challenging as there was a quartering in northwest wind at 20+. Holding on the left edge of the 5 inch square, the Tikka put three at 1 1/4" at 200 yards.
All 5 shots for the Tikka were touching at 100 yards. The Montana wasn't far behind and in its defense, it is a harder rifle to shoot well with. It weighs 6#'s with a 2.5-8x36 held in place by Talley LW's. It is skim bedded with a 2.5# trigger. On the other hand, the Tikka with a 3-9 x40 with Talleys weighs 7# 3 oz. and a 2 3/4# trigger. H4350 and 140 Acc's deliver 2650fps +/- with RL17 soon to be employed. Once again I must admit that the Tikka delivered quite well right out of the box. But the Kimber is close on its heels - being 1# 3 oz. lighter.
Its funny - shooting a Montana in .270Win. to allow CM barrels to cool is like getting "beat up". We'll see what RL 17 does. I should add that the 143 ELD-X's were quite good as well.
I used to post plenty of photos but I no longer have the patience to learn some new fangled system.
Thanks for the post. The Montana CM is tough to beat, IMO for a backpack mountain buck rifle.
The Creedmoor name has cool factor. Everyone perks up when you just say”I have a Creedmoor “.
Sportsmans Warehouse finally has the T3x Superlite in stock in the Creed. I'd put that somewhere towards the top of the list.
SW will only ship to another SW so that limits the availability considerably. It appears they will not take your CC over the phone either. Shipping was $50 - yowser - definitely not a MAGA operation.
Is their a non-fluted Tikka T-3x version?