I was wondering how many of you use centerfire rifles to hunt small game. I read Mule Deer's article on downloading centerfire rounds and I tried some of Seafire's Blue Dot loads in my 223 Remington. Wow... that was fun. I am selling my 22 LR and I want to replace it. I could stay with a 223, but my current rifle is too heavy to be a great small game gun. After looking, the Howa Mini and the Kimber Montana seem to be the lightest 223 rifles, are there others to consider? How about other catridges? Anyone else download something else which they think would work better?

dunno about working better, but i download a few to chase squirrels and stuff.

i shoot a lot of single shots, mostly TC's, and have various carbine barrels i load on the mild side for hunting.

some of those i pack around a fair bit include an 18" .32mag, with cast bullets at around 800fps.
also shoot a 25/20win, with 86gr cast at about 1200fps.
and, a .30reece (.30x357 mag), that one gets .30cal 110gr FMJ's (.30carbine bullet) at about 1000fps.

a few years ago, i had a 5.7x28 carbine barrel built, with top end loads it some close to 22 hornet levels, but it mostly it gets loaded with milder stuff. my favorite is the 46gr speer FNSP 218bee bullet, loaded down to about 1600fps...its about as destructive as most .22mag loads, so when squirrel hunting i try for headshots. On bigger stuff, the flat nose seems to smack stuff pretty well...have whacked assorted stuff, lots of coons, possums, skunks, and armadillos with that one.

I forgot about the TC's. I used to have one with a custom shop barrel in 218 bee. It was very accurate and I should have kept it. I have a 32 Mag in a revolver, so I am set-up for it.

For your 25-20, do you find hard to find brass and suitable bullets for small game hunting?

I use the hell outta a 17 Hornet.....

221 Fireball for everything...



....with an interchangeable 410 barrel for those extremely dangerous charges by aluminum cans, dirt clods, discarded bottles, and occasional mud puddles!!! So fun!

DMc : )

I use a Savage 99 in 22HP with 60gr cast bullets and 7 gr of unique for rabbit hunting quite a bit.



Lee

I picked up a couple of Howa Minis in 223...10 round magazine..

that is what I am using right now, testing out the current Unique loads, to 22 Mag speeds...
with 50 and 55 grain bullets...

but I am also going to be testing with 75 grain BTHPs and A Maxes... using Unique and Blue Dot..

I've done it in the past, and surprisingly they turned in very tight group that looked like a 270 sized hole...
at 100 yds...

I tried a Ruger American Predator.. but didn't care for it...

gave it to a good friend on the campfire, who resides down in Louisiana.. and he seems to love it...

But I like the 2 Howa Mini's I replaced it with....and they have been very accurate with a lot of different loads..

Any smaller critter in the backyard that I don't like and am not going to eat gets deputy Hornetized....

I have often loaded down larger center fires but a couple years ago I acquired a Jeffery Rook rifle that was originally in 255 Jeffery as old rifles are where my interests lie. The exterior of the rifle is quite decent given it's age but the barrel had been re-chambered to 25-20 WCF and sadly, looked like a sewer pipe. I tried to make it shoot but it was simply too far gone. Re-lining and re-chambering back to the original 255 Jeffery was cost prohibitive. Having a custom liner made at .251, having a reamer ground and go/no go gauges made for the Jeffery cartridge plus the labor was more than I am able to pay. Wish I could have but such was not the case. So, a new .257 liner was installed and chambered to 25-20 WCF. I load it to 255 Jeffery levels and after a couple hundred rounds the liner settled down and began shooting. I'd have to check records but I believe the 75 gr. cast bullet is running around 1200 fps, + or -. To call the little Jeffery a delight is understatement.

not so much on the downloading,

but






have long been interested in the "sub-calibers" and other small stuff!

ya!

GWB

I haven’t done it in years.... but used to squirrel hunt with 155 grain cast Bullets in my .308 Win. I started out with 110 grain half-jacket, but wasn’t satisfied with accuracy. All shots with the cast were head-shots except a few that I “barked” as an experiment. The “barked” kills weren’t as efficient as I had hoped!

Have killed numerous grouse (while deer/elk hunting) with my .375. They must be head shots....if you want to eat grouse! memtb

I think this would be more fun than a fellow could have with his clothes on. Thanks for sharing all this stuff. A question for you: If you were going to get a T/C carbine barrel built today, would you go with the 327 Federal over the 32 H&R Mag?

What publication is Mule Deer's article in?

Got a link for seafire's blue dot loads? I've got some on hand.

The Kimber Montana .223 is a feather. Though an expensive one.

Thanks,

Jerry

I've had fun with the 25-20, and played with down loaded .223, but rimfires are a staple.

I can't get my head wrapped around 'selling my 22LR'

I have a Marlin .218 Bee that is a favorite, but brass can be problematic. I bought 500 rounds with the gun when they were introduced.

I have a TC Carbine in .223. I would have been just as happy with DMc's .221. My first Contender was in that caliber, but my first two barrels ( .221) were both bummers. One wouldn't close when loaded, and the second would not eject. Just some bad juju at the time. Loading down the .223 a bit might be just as fun. I can tell you that the TC carbine is a favorite driving the ranch two tracks in either a truck or a Mule. Mine is wood stocked, not quite so trim. I dallied too long when the 28 ga was an option, never much considered a .410, but I can't tell you any good reason why not.

I know of no good reason why the ever popular .357 would not be a good choice, if starting from scratch. Not as long range as the CF .22s, but very useful out to a hundred yards or so..

DMc,

The 221 Fireball is a great cartridge and I do have one in a CZ 527. It would be pretty cool in a Contender too. A 410 would be a nice addition as well, since I got rid of my last shotgun.

Polecat,

Do you the velocity for the load you are shooting?

To be perfectly honest, I put my 20ga away one bird shy of a limit on opening day and pulled out this baby 410. I had at least 18-20 shots and never downed a bird. But for squirrels and ground based critters "close up" the thing is murder!

DMc ; )

PS: With the exception of plastic bottles. Don't know what it is about plastic bottles...? Shot just goes through them. They don't get all knurled up like tin cans. They don't even fly into the air very well. I hate plastic bottles!

.

460 Weatherby mag

Since I bought a .22 Hornet some years ago I rarely go rabbiting with a .22 LR any more. Mine's a Brno ZKW 465, and it is light and very accurate. I don't download it, and usually use 40 gn bullets at about 3000 fps, but I also make headshots, so damage to anything edible is zero. I also have dropped a fair number of hares, feral cats, foxes and the odd few feral pigs with it, though it is less than ideal on the pigs - you really have to pick your shots.

I also use bigger calibres. One in particular being the 7x57R, currently in the form of the third barrel on a Krieghoff drilling. I don't use any special small-game loads here either - usually a 150 gn softpoint, such as Winchester's Power Point. Again, with headshots, the damage to the edible part of a rabbit is pretty much zero - they are more or less neatly decapitated - and yet I can double up on any deer or pig or goat that might happen along.

Hey Seafire,

I saw your thread concerning the Unique loads too. I will definetly try them as well.

What didn't you like about the Ruger?

The Howa Mini is on my list as it seems to be alot of gun for the price. Hopefully Whittaker's will get them back in stock for the $329 price.

Here is a photo of the Blue Dot loads I shot in my Tikka T3x in 223 at 100 yards. I was using the 45 grain Sierra SP and from left to right:

8.0 grains which averaged 2005 fps,
9.0 grains which averaged 2205 fps,
10.0 grain which averaged 2380 fps.

Mule Deer's article was in Handloader if I remember correctly. It has been awhile since I read it. Don't remember the issue number.

Seafire's blue dot loads are here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11038926/1

I know it is blasphemy, but I have never liked any rifle I had chambered in 22 LR. I appreciate one being light weight, but I have never really liked a rimfire action. They are pan in the ass to clean. I am too OCD to leave something dirty and most actions are very hard to get a good cleaning on the inside. Plus, no one makes a bore guide where some of your cleaning solvent doesn't drip into the magazine area. Don't get me started on cleaning the back of the barrel where the extractor cut out is located.

I've tried Ruger 10-22, Remington 541, Cooper 57, CZ 455, CZ 452, Marlin 25, Anschutz 64 to name a few and I just don't like them. Also I always preferred something on the power level of the 22 Magum, but I ran into the same problem of not liking the platforms they were chambered in. I think a light weight centerfire loaded down to 22 Mag - 22 Hornet velocities will give me what I want. Plus, where I hunt I run into more black bear and coyote than in years past and I want something more than a 22 LR in my hands.

Plus I still haven't gotten over the rimfire ammo drying up as it did. I was taken by surprise as many were. I didn't like the feeling of having a rifle which I couldn't get ammo and no way to reload my own.

Another thing I hate is the accuracy of the 22 LR. Yes they can be accurate with the use of wind flags and match ammo, but I don't want to got that extreme. It is very wind sensitive and I don't sit inside to shoot and I would like a more aerodynamic projectile to shoot which I can reload myself.

I know this won't work for everyone, but that is where I am coming from.

OUCH!!!

I thought about the 357 Magnum too. There was a guy on here named Jerry Lester who used to post. He used a Marlin 1894 and I believe a Ruger revolver loaded down to hunt small game. Ruger makes their 77 in a stainless bolt action. Another option would be the Marlin lever or the T/C contender. I used to have one of the Marlin's and I sold it, wanting something different. It was a very accurate lever. I never shot anything with it other than paper, so I never got to see how it worked on game. At the time I also had a 336 in 35 Remington and took it to the woods instead.

Agreed. Love mine. Mild report and absent recoil, (in a rifle). Knocks the spit out of the steel plates at 100 too.

I test fired some new handloads using the Hornady 140 gr FTX a few weeks ago. Interesting that the point of impact (@ 100) was about a foot higher than the 158gr XTP hollow point.

You didn't mention a price range. At the upper end, nice Browning .32/20s can be found fairly easily. Also were some Marlins in .32 mag, .25/20, .218, etc, but they're pretty pricey now, and generally not as nice. If the Henry singles ever get commonly available, one of those in .30/30, .223, .308, or the promised .357 could be downloaded, with hot ones carried for your bears. I want to see one in person myself before I get too excited.

Some years back I loaded up some 110gr Speer HPs over some 4759 in a .308 and they were killer-dillers.

A little over 1850 fps, about like 22 mag but with a 60gr bullet instead of a 40gr

Lee

i started with the 25/20 quite a few years ago, and back then it was easy to find both winchester & remington brass....i got a pretty good supply of both, and have neck sized since then, so have been pretty set. my RP cases are nickle plated and i keep hi-velocity loads in those.

a year or 2 back during the gun frenzy, most makers were trying to crank out as many components as possible that could be stuffed into AR's, and everyone forgot about making 25/20-friendly bullets; the hornady 60gr and speer 75 FN bullets dried up, and the Rem 86gr bullets were dropped; i started shooting some assorted cast bullets...still had a pretty good stash of speer 75's, but decided to use those cautiously, in case the component drought continued...plus, cast were only about $35 for 500 count, last time i looked they were still only about $40 lately.

i never had much luck getting great accuracy from the hornady 60's.... Speer used to make a 60gr spire point in .257 that shoots great, i still have several hundred of those, but save them for hunting....when sighted with the Speer 60's at max speeds, my carbine shoots my cast bullet mild loads to almost the same POI at 50 yards, so i can pretty much use them both with no sight change for squirrel hunting. The 60's at max speeds tear critters up when pushed fast, about like the .22hornet in splatter, and maybe a tad more so.

good thread to browse, when looking for 25/20 recipes:

Malin 25/20 data...

really thought hard on that one when i ordered it; as they had just began offering the .327fed as an option....but in the end, decided on the .32mag; figured i'd most likely not load it up, and was only trying for 1000-1500fps, which the .32mag easily does in carbine barrels. I already had the .30reece (.30x357) that will get almost blackout speeds, so when i wanted more oomph, i use the 30reece with 110/125gr bullets pushed up to 2200fps.

The 32mag carbine barrel will hold sub-1-inch groups at 50 yards with pretty much all the .32 bullets i've tried, and the low muzzle blast is nice...sounds about like .22LR hi-velocity loads. Plus, 5 gr of powder & cast bullets makes for cheap shooting.

Hunted grey squirrels in PENN with a 222 REM back in the early 90s, head shots only of course.

Get a Browning .22 semi-auto take-down rifle. It will spoil all other .22's for you

But maybe I'm biased. Granddad had a Remington Model 24 he bought in the early 30's for about $20. It was a licensed version of the Browning design. Brothers and I grew up shooting it. when I got out of the service in '74 the first big purchase I made was a Browning version. Cost me $125 back then. Have put thousands of rounds through it, my girls have grown up shooting it and it still shoots as well as ever. After Granddad and Dad died, I got the Remington Model 24, too. Shorts only. It still shoots very, very well, but it is only about 87 years old.

You can download a .223 to .22LR, but for plinking fun, why bother with the time and expense? I download .45-70's with hardcast to .22 velocities but the bullets weigh 300-350g and their capability on target is far greater than a .22. Fun rounds (my girls love them, as do I), but they are not for general purpose plinking.

True that, and the 22 inch "shorts only" is even more of a prize! I have to include the Remington Model 121 Fieldmaster as one of the best all-timers too.


DMc : )

Went through a period when I was captivated by the .35 Remington. I still love the round.

Remington Model 7, .35 Remington



Remington Model 600, 35 Remington



Remington Model 7600, 35 Remington



I loaded them down to accept jacketed lightweight .357 hollowpoint pistol bullets. Absolutely one of the most fun plinking rounds you could develop. So explosive! (I referred to them as my mini-grenades.)


DMc : )


.

Nice looking rifle. How do you like the peep sight?

I forgot about the Henry single shots. It will be interesting to see what chamberings they will offer in the future.

I agree with you concerning the Marlins. They are priced too high for what you get. The Browning are nice, I saw one in 218 bee a few months back, but couldn't get my wallet out to buy it

An older guy I hunted with use to carry an over/under Savage 222 over 20 gauge. He killed everything with it and I mean everything. The triple deuce is a great cartridge.

I am not familiar with the model. Do I seach Browning 22 Semi Auto?

Nice collection of 35 Remingtons. I have always had a soft spot for the cartridge. Did you ever try slow the .357 bullets down to use for game?

Barm, try this link to Browning: http://www.browning.com/products/fi...ent-production/semi-auto-22-grade-i.html

Older guns will have higher or lower prices depending on..........a lot of stuff. They tend to shoot well.

My version of what you are looking for? Whatever you want to dabble with. Virtually any small capacity case will do what you're looking for, regardless of caliber.

The gun is key however, some shoot well, others not so much. Those suggesting a T/C Contender are on the same page I am. Light, reliable, easy to clean and viable for most any game you have a mind to whack. They offer the benefit of multi barrel sets if so inclined.

And you're right, .22 RF's just don't hardly shoot without a lot of gymnastics.

This was from a Rem 513T:



A T/C Contender w/ CB Shorts:



Contender with LR ammo:



So, leaving the 50 yard line behind, whaddya think about the .25-20 Win on the 100 yard butt with cast bullets?



Well, the CB short barrel is an attention whore:

.22 Hornet

That is a pretty one. Is it an Anschutz?

Sweeet Phil!

Thanks for the link. I do know the rifle. An older guy I hunted with had one and he used to call it a "cat gun".

The 25-20 is an interesting cartridge and looks like plenty accurate too. My only worry with it the use of good jacketed bullets for it.

Those are some good groups for a 22 LR although it illustrates my point. I had a Marlin 17 HMR which would shoot groups like that at 100 yards.

Very much so. Huge improvement over the factory barrel mounted rear sight.

Dan, I've followed your exploits using .22 shorts on hogs. Always a fun read. Contenders are so short and handy, I'd be laying awake nights mapping plans to put a silencer on the barrel. I know CB caps make very little noise as they are, but I'm thinking no more than a twig snap decibel level. Wondering outloud if you could pick off a whole herd of hogs if you were concealed well?


DMc : )

I had a Beretta Minx (shorts only), with a threaded 3" barrel and a silencer. The bullet impact was louder than the pistol. The only problem was the sights were obscured by the silencer. Rendered the gun totally useless....

Barm, I've loaded reduced loads for the .35 Rem using gas checked cast bullets for game.



But I think 50 rounds lasted me almost 5 years!!!! I guess you can say I haven't really pounded the turf small game hunting. Plinking requires a lot less effort. LOL


DMc : )

Yes Anschutz. I think it is discontinued now.

If I ever get a 92 in .357, I'd give it a shot with some 38 round nose on small game.
But I got rimfires, pellet guns, a 410 and 20 gauge for now.

M94 Marlin 25-20 with a Williams 5D receiver sight. The rifle is over 100 years old so I load it down a bit, 88 gr cast bullet and enough 4198 for just under 1300fps. Accurate, and makes a great small game rifle

DMc, Since you asked...........the LR barrel for the Contender is Hollywood quiet with SV ammo and the groups above with Norma Tac and the CCI SV were shot that way with a suppressor. The Short chambered barrel is a bit louder, but I'd not say it's a LOT louder. The barrel is 20" long. When I'm disposed to heresy and shoot the CBs from the 513 with something around 24" of barrel the loudest part is the hammer strike.

Back about 10 years ago I waded into a gang of porkers and commenced to popping them. Took a sow of about 175#, then a barr of around 200#....and then 3 of the kids which were about 40# or close to it. Piglet #6 finally figured there was something in the wind and hauled butt. 5 shots, 5 dead pigs....they heard it, but couldn't quite figure out what it was, nor where to run/walk. Whole deal took about a minute, and then the work started. I never took a step after firing the first shot from behind that skinny maple tree. It made a good rest, the range was about 25 yards.

Barm, I dunno what you think will work for you or not, but my observations over the years are thus: If you start with an accurate rifle, you might, and I emphasize "might", find 100 yard precision with reduced loads in a light rifle. I doubt you'll find many such guns that tie all that together in a practical and effective package due to a number of factors. One of the first hurdles is finding something with functional terminal performance. The Hornet might do it, but you'll likely sacrifice a bit of precision with reduced loads. In my opinion, you'll likely find the light rifle you want amidst the array of single shots out there, but with a fair number of them accuracy may not meet objectives. Don't know if you'd entertain casting bullets for the project or not, but it's a pastime that might help you get there. 100 yard precision can be had with lead...my 10/22 sez so, so there. So do several other of my rifles.



Would I want to shoot small game with them? Mebbe not.



Can you slow the .44 down and hit anything? Well, out to 50 yards or so, yes.



Can the Hornet do it with reduced loads? Yes, even at 100 yards, but the referenced loads below would only be practical with head shots if you plan on anything other than scraps for dinner.



All boils down to one of those "you pay your money and take your chances" things. You can get there, but simply downloading a CF case is only one element of a larger bucket of challenge.

I like my old '94 a lot....... Is what I shot the previously posted 100 yard target with using an Ideal 257283 plain base with a dash of 2400.



This is fairly representative of what it will do at 50 yards using the tang sight.



The gun was originally chambered in the .25-20 Marlin and the bore was a wasteland. Had it lined and rechambered........

That is a cool picture. Thank you for sharing.

That's worthy of publication! Nice cover for Sport Afield or Outdoor life!


DMc : )

Gorgeous!

Gestapo will not allow center fire for small game here.

Digital Dan,

I have never casted bullets, but I am open to the idea. What got me started with the reduced loads was actually trying the Blue Dot loads in my 223. The rifle is a Tikka T3x Lite. The barrel measures .630 at the muzzle. The problem for me is I had to add some hardware to the stock to fit me and I put a somewhat heavy scope on it. My original thought was use for turkey and groundhogs, so I didn't care about the weight. It got me to thinking if I was able to replicate the same performance in a rifle which is lighter I would be content. I know I could continue to use a 22 LR, but I want to roll my own. I'm still mad thinking about the rimfire shortage. Another difference for me, I would not be shooting hundreds of rounds in a sitting whether targets or hunting. I didn't start from nothing, but we didn't have extra growing up. My parents were very good at keeping my brother and I from wasting anything, including shooting. My dad would let my brother and I shoot one box of 22 rimfire at a sitting. The old paper boxes which only held 50 rounds. I got all the practice I needed and I guess I have a little bit of that mindset. It didn't stick with my brother, though I do get your point it may not be as easy to get what I want and I may have to settle for something different.

It is a shame. Plenty of beautiful country to hunt up in PA.

Didn't know that PA went full retard. Wow.

Barm, I understand your thoughts about the RF shortage and with any luck I will get to reintroduce a CF version...when the brass arrives.

As stated previously, there be a few guns that will roll with your program but high precision is possible though perhaps a bit tedious to establish. Blue Dot is a good powder for this IMO. Little bit of luck and lots of determination can make it work out in the end. I have a wee bit of background with reduced loads in the Hornet and replicated .22 RF high velocity numbers easy enough and the precision melted a little, going from sub MOA at 100 to around 1" at 50. When I tried to slow it down a bit more I won the bullet stuck in the barrel lottery. Tenth grain increments as I progressed and I went from ~1250 fps to stuck with that change. Cast bullets are far more amenable in that realm and they do so with soft alloys well enough.

My K-Hornet @ 50 with the Lyman 225438 at 50 yards:





You saw the jacketed bullet target above and the difference is obvious. With that said, if you move up the ladder with cast bullets it gets a bit more rewarding. We are hunting in very different environments I suspect, but if I were going to pursue your goals I'd be looking at a .25-20 Winchester chamber in a T/C Contender frame, probably a 1st Generation rig. Poke around a bit and you'll find the frame easy enough and maybe even luck into the right barrel. After that you can investigate the world of casting if you choose. The .25-20 will move one of the light bullets out to 2,000 fps +/- and the heavier 85 grain bullets in the 1300-1400 fps range without a lot of grief. You can do the same with lead and have the same accuracy, or better, when you get yourself on top of the game.

Depending on alloy I can run the Ideal 257283 below at 1100-1250 fps with reasonable accuracy in the lever gun. I have no reason to think they would not do better from a good Contender barrel. The alloy I use is in the range of BHN 8-9, or the rough equivalent to US manufactured .22 RF bullets. I have used the same in other cartridges up to 1,600 fps successfully.



A slightly harder mix launched from the .30-30 will do this consistently at the 2,000 fps threshold.



The magic of using different alloys is that it lets you tailor the bullet terminal performance for the velocity spectrum they operate in. You might want to go back and look at the 77/44 target posted earlier. Pure lead, paper patched with a MV of ~1,600 fps. A few days after that target was shot I found myself in the deep woods of Mississippi and a steady drizzle of rain. Some deer wandered into view and beast that I am, one of them was murdered. It did not travel far.




And this right here is about $3 worth of cast lead for the Hornet.

Anschutz 1771 in .222 Remington
S&B 7x50 Klassik Scope (very good in low light)
Sierra 52gr.HPBT Macthking
23.2gr BL-C2 (low moderate load)
CCI BR4 Primers
Lapua Brass

Handy little (made to scale) walk around rifle. Fun to shoot

It is a Browning SA-22.

Same with mine, The guy who did the liner turned down a 25-06 barrel, so the twist is tight.The mold I use most anymore is a NOE copy of your 257283, lately powder coated. Probably because of the twist rate, this barrel likes to go fast with 4198. Slowed down to 1290 or so with 9.2gr 4198 it still has very good accuracy, just not quite like it does a bit faster. My alloy is a little harder at 12-14, wish I had more soft lead to blend with but the bunnies and backyard steel gongs don't seem to mind. One of these days I'm going to carry it when calling coyotes in a close cover area, Penetration won't be a problem, but might want to increase the velocity some.

Oh, HELL YESSSSS!!!

Thanks for the pics.

Digital Dan,

Thanks for the tips on the lead. What are the differences in Contenders? You mentioned first generation?

The Gen 2 frames have a reinforcement on the sides to reduce frame stretch, much like the Encore frames. They also have different geometry for the grip/butt stock, meaning those items are not interchangeable. My limited experience and comments on the 'net suggests.a bit higher quality in the older models, but you'll want to look for one with a serial # of around 300K+, or confirm it has had the easy open modification performed. Ballpark for those seems to hover in the $350-$425 range, pistol versions being more common. Barrels are available through the usual sources, and that would include MGM and my personal favorite, Bullberry.

https://www.tcarms.com/firearms/interchangeable-platforms/g2-contender

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=contender+frame

https://matchgrademachine.com/

https://www.bullberry.com/

If you are seriously looking for 25-20 single shots, the 70grn Sierra and 75grn Hornady are both plastic tipped varmint bullets that do nothing but help the 25-20.

I shot a deer with the 70grn Sierra Blitz out of mine, but I was loading them for a repeater, and filed off the tips. Bullet exited, deer died, estimated velocity 1750fps....which actually leaves quite a bit of running room for that shell case and bullet combo. The flat point 75 grn Speer didn't open up much during testing, so I came up with a different solution.

I tried to bark a squirrel once with my M92 .25-20, but that didn't work either. My experience has not been good using too big a cartridge for too small a critter. As a youth I'd been reading how a bullet crosses the line of sight twice and that my .30-06 should be on at a very short distance as well again at 100 yards. During a deer season when nothing much was happening a grouse presented himself at that a fore mentioned short distance. A head shot sight picture turned into center mess instead. Another time I went snowshoe hare hunting and took my .308 instead of something normal. Still one of my better shots 60 yards on the run, but there was hare hair and what ever else is normally inside a rabbit hanging on the surrounding bushes. a 180 grain Core-Lokt isn't supposed to do that. I was wrong, it did.

Thank you for the links.

Good to know there are more options for jacketed bullets. How was the accuracy with the filed off tips?

The Browning 65s I've seen for sale not only have been priced really high, but have been plain as white toast, while the 53s range from really, really nice to simply stunning. Must be a rarity thing. One of these days, opportunity and resources will come together for me like they did with my Low Wall Hunter .44!

That be one fine shooting stick.

I would be surprised if either or both of my boys don't shoot a few squirrels yet this month with a single shot 357 Mag rifle. They just really like shooting that rifle.

.22 Hornet converted to .22 K-Hornet.

DF

Let us know how it does for them.

I love CZ's. Tell me about your scope base.

Accuracy was fine with the 75grn Speer, and almost as good with the 70grn Sierra. Going by memory I was going with 10.8g H4198 for the 75, and 11.8g H4198 for the 70. Accuracy of the 75 was better, around 1/2" at 40 yards, and just a tad bigger with the 70. The 70 did hit 3/4" higher with the same hold, which is just fine for what I was doing. Those loads are in the lower end of the spectrum. The 25-20 is capable of over 2000fps with that 70grn in a firearm that isn't an antique.

My 25-20 is an 80+ year old pump Remington, and was not the strongest action even when new. As I was set up, swapping the 75 Speer for small game or the 70 Blitz for bigger game was a solid plan.

If I had to do it all over I would go with a fairly stout single shot, and stick with the tipped bullets like the 70 Sierra or 75 grn V-max for everything, or mix in a harder bullet for small game. A stout single shot would let you ramp up the speed, and not have to file off tips reach a certain COAL.

CZ sumthing...................

It wouldn't be a first time. Head shots are obviously best, but it doesn't tear them up as bad as I expected with body shots. Not a whole lot of runners if you hit them...

I have one of those Howa Minis with the standard 22" barrel. It's the rifle that inspired the message I sent you asking about the 4198 loads. And for what it's worth, my particular rifle didn't care much for 75 BTHP's or A-Max. It did shoot the 68 BTHP's well, though. Something else to consider is that, according to the stability calculator on Berger's site, the 75 A-Max shouldn't be fully stabilized out of the 9" twist, even with full power loads, and theoretically won't have much of a BC advantage over the 68's. Also, fwiw, I was playing with the 75's when I lived at 7500' ASL, which should have given me about the best chance most people are ever gonna get at fully stabilizing them. And also also fwiw, I measured my barrel and confirmed that it is indeed a 9" twist.

Finally, if you feel ambitious with some sandpaper and spray paint, you can take a half pound off of those Mini stocks. I'd not own another without doing so again, and in fact, gave the Grendel Mini I bought the same treatment. It makes the rifle much trimmer and slimmer in addition to the weight loss.

Here's a rather involved thread about this gun, the conversion to K-Hornet, good comments about loads, etc. Photobucket's recent fiasco sorta ruins it regarding photos. I'll add some photos here.

www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11390994/1

Here's the link about the base, I used low Weavers, the combo being the lowerst scope mount I could achieve.

I had to use the new bolt handle to accommodate this set up. The older handle wouldn't clear the scope eyepiece with the scope mounted this low.

http://www.diproductsinc.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1133585

DF

Im from the train of thought that says buy a couple nice rigs instead of a bunch of junk.

Agree.

I've sold a bunch of guns to fund one really nice one, more than once.

DF

CZ 527 Prestige, their deluxe version. This one has very nice wood.

New model bolt handle barely clears eyepiece with lens cover.

Well, it ought to kill'em for certain!

With a good .223 in hand for varmints, I'm seriously thinking about making my Hornet a small game and turkey piece. Got a few hundred Speer flatpoints to work with. Initial tests with 7gr of 2400 look pretty good.

Trash Panda vs .32mag carbine...

Sweet!!!

Interesting Camo. Something you did?


DMc

[quote=DMc
Interesting Camo. Something you did?
DMc [/quote]

yeah, got tired of looking at black tupperware, so got some assorted colors of durable outdoor paint from hobby lobby in several colors, and
did a home brewed camo job on several guns.

CZ in 17 Hornet

223 with 35 gr Hornet v maxes 13.5/BLUEDOT 3100 fps or less

One of the best I've seen! Rattle can or ?

DMc

yeah, I was gonna say... the boy is a Rattle Can Rembrandt....

+1

He's an artist, no doubt...

Those are some really handy rifles.

DF

used a thin stiff bristled brush to lightly blot paint onto the stock, pretty easy to do & if you get tired of looking at it, Berrymans's Chem-Tool Carb cleaner will strip it off there. After a day of drying, i overspray lightly with clear sealer...holds up OK on slick tupperware, and stays on really well on kevlar/light weight stocks such as McMillan, MPI, Bell & Carlson, etc.

What's the story on the MGM barrel design?

Think I read 30-30 AI. That should be a good single shot round.

Is that fluting or art?

DF

Looks like the old Contender frame, like this .410/.45 Colt.

I think a barrel would just about put me in business.

DF

How about this option? A Freedom Arms 32 H&R Magnum. I also have a 32-20 cylinder with it.

I've dabbled with a rattle can and webbing. Was dove hunting with family when daughter #2 put sunblock on. The residue on her hands transferred to the grip on her shotgun and reacted adversely with the clear coat & Krylon paint.

I ended up stripping her stock set and went with a hydrographic.



After speaking with the applicator he informed me that rattle can clear coat was deficient and would react to an abundance of chemicals. He advised going with a baked-on enamel type of clear coat that would literally last a lifetime with no ill effects.

I then took daughter's #1 & #3 stock sets to him to apply a proper clear coat:



I really liked the hydro-graphic and put it on my shotgun, and also cerakoted the metal in Patriot Brown.



Thought you might want a heads-up.


DMc

That one is a .25x30/30Ackley (pretty much duplicates .250savage, but in a rimmed case)....does well with 80gr TTSX's, at around 3000fps.

MGM does assorted barrel fluting designs, the one in the pic is called Double Diamond, but they do others also.

that would be about the finest fun gun & light hunting combo i could imagine!

Very nice. I have one in .357. Those are some of the finest revolvers made.

DF

That is exactly what I was thinking. By the time I buy a Contender and add furniture to it and a barrel. I could easily be into it for $800. If I use the revolver I am out nothing, I just need more trigger time. Plus I couldn't go any lighter than the revolver, even if I bought the Kimber Montana or Howa Mini.

Dirtfarmer,

What do you hunt with your .357?

I just use my 204 and 32’s, they work perty good, no exits on coons, badgers, coyotes etc

Not much.

In my youth, I was a pretty good pistol shot, used handguns to kill squirrels, rabbits, 'dillers and other assorted critters and varmints.

I've have eye surgery and although I see pretty well, it's not the same. I haven't shot a pistol is quite a while.

I do hunt with scoped rifles and do pretty well.

DF

I've known a couple of people who use a .223 for EVERYTHING. And one a .222

I have four bolt action center fires left......223, 222, 17Rem, and 17FB so yea....you could say I shoot small game with small center fire cartridges but I ain't much for down loading..

I like em all but my 17FB's my favorite....







The 17Rem and 222Rem are 700's......I love them too but the FB definitely see's the most day light.



Haven't had the 223 long enough to become attached but it's a CZ so I'm sure I will.....

FieldGrade, That's a fine looking collection!

And some nice skins on the wall for the little Fireball...those rodents might need a stitch or two

The 17 FB is a fine cartridge. I wish Remington had given it better support.

Remington's long history of marketing bloopers and wrong strategies.

The .17 Hornet seems to have a loyal following.

DF

I've had a FA Mod. 97 in 45 Colt for about 15 years and love the revolver. For smaller centerfire I recently picked up a Buckeye Ruger with 32-20 and 32 H&R cylinders. Ruger must spend a little more time with those Buckeye orders. That revolver is a tack driver right out of the box. Gotta love the little slope shouldered 32-20!!!