Looking at both for a custom job. Want an all-around rifle, about 8 pounds, thinking of a compromise 25" barrel for portability (between 24" and 26").

Want to develop two loads- a 165-168gr and a 200gr. if a .300 Win. Mag. but maybe the .300 Wea. Mag with a 180gr load, given the extra velocity potential, would cover both bases? I'd use the 165-168gr. for sheep, deer and caribou (maybe a trip down south for Pronghorn, coues deer) and the 200gr. for elk, moose, black bear. What would you consider to evaluate the two? Is recoil that much more significant? How much would the .300 Wea. mag./ outperform the .300 win. mag. with a 25" barrel? Or how much more effective range would I get?

I'll bet Magnumtagem's got such a chubby right now, he's lost too much composure to type...

168 and 180 TSX's shoot like a champ from my Sako 75 in 300 Weatherby!If you handload I would go the Weatherby route,if you don't I'd go 300 Win.

Eight pounds limits you a bit in componentry, unless you're going NULA or the like.

The Campfire Rifle is a .300 Winchester Magnum built on a Rem 700 BDL with a 24" Lilja #4, I believe, with a 1" shank. It's in a McMillan Classic at 14" LOP, Talley LW, and a VXIII 2.5-8x36. It's 8.5 pounds with optics, sans cartridges and sling.

If you build this same blueprint and opt a McMillan EDGE of your favorite flavor, you'll make weight. Opt for a 70/77/1999/Mauser, etc., and the action weight goes up.

I'd stick to a 24" barrel, but have no arguments with a 25" if you prefer it. I like the shorter barrel because of balance, portability, and (in theory) an edge in accuracy potential due to increased stiffness. 50 ft/sec means little to me either way.

In terms of caliber, I'm a .300 Winchester fan, but have nothing but respect for the Weatherby. It's a classic cartridge, truly an "all-around," and certainly has BTDT.

My only thoughts would be to opt for SAAMI specs � full Wby freebore � so factory fodder is not an issue. Factory Wby ammo has a reputation (which I have corroborated) of being hot, and stuffing it into a short-throated rifle isn't something I'd want to accidentally do.

The Campfire Rifle in an EDGE would do the trick.

Rick

PS: An eight-pound .300 WinMag or Roy is going to get your attention when you touch her off. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

One thing that is worth mentioning is ammunition availablity. For 99% of people this is never a problem but for the 1% that is does effect it could make or break an expensive trip. It seems to me that 300 win mag ammo can be found most anywhere while 300 weatherby can be difficult to locate in some areas.

Not a reason to reject one over the other but certainly something worth considering if you plan on traveling a lot with your new rig.

Jim

Get a 30-378 and your problems will be solved...stillhunter73 are you some sorta poodle humper or something? jeeze... All seriousness I would take the 300 win mag and shoot 180's at about 3120fps for all the game you described.

Good call on the Weatherby freebore Rick.You just saved me a lot of grief on a up coming project.Actually a canceled up-coming project now.

it's a performance/pain equation....
in my experience, just about anybody who shoots a sporter 06 well can handle the winnie...

that simply aint' so with the .300 weatherby..... i myself consider it to be unpleasant to shoot... probably seen more flinches developed with the weatherby than all other cartridges combined... most that i know who shoot a weatherby practice with a P.A.S.T. pad, heavy hearing protection, and a heavy jacket on... and limit the number of rounds that they fire...

the winnie, for most experienced shooters is fun to shoot. there is good reason that it is so popular..... john w

Ah come on- there is day and day out a bit over 100 fps diff between the two rounds. Some rifles will be a bit more and some a bit less. But generally when both are loaded to the max there will not be much diff.

A person who can handle a WM can handle a Wby, there aint a hill of beans diff between the two.

Keep them in similar rifle types and one will never know which one they are working with

Mark D

Mo, I had this very discussion on ammunition availability in 300 Win/Wea with a hunter that has traveled the world over yesterday. His African trophies literally would put a large museum to shame. Something OVER 160 Cape Buffalo, plus lion, leopard, musk ox, dall, desert, stone, marco polo, all the African plains, etc. He highly recommended the 300 Weatherby. He said they are available everywhere he has hunted and it will do everything the Winchester will do plus some.

That opinion carried a lot of weight with me. Not sure if my Hagn will be a Win or Wea but I am leaning toward the Wea much more now.
SS

I consider the 300 Weatherby to be the most versatile caliber extant. Men like Elgin Gates, C.J. McElroy & countless others used it to take virtually ALL of the world's big game. I truly think it has an edge over the 300 Win Mag, at least from what I've experienced. Having said that, for a custom rifle, no question I would pick the 300 Win Mag. It is widely distributed, very accurate and a sure killer. Call me particular, but I only like Weatherby calibers in Weatherby rifles, jorge

that is exactly why the winnie is so much more popular....
why put up with the extra punishment of the weatherby for so little gain...
velocity gains in the upper end of the spectrum suffer badly from the rule of diminishing returns... it takes a lot of raw horsepower to effect that last 100 fps gain..... john w

most who claim to enjoy shooting the weatherby, actually enjoy being seen to shoot the weatherby..... they tend to run in crowds...

there are exceptions.... count me out..... john w

A few thoughts,

With 180gr bullets a handloaded 300win is 3100fps a Weatherby is 3200fps, not a huge difference, but a 300Win lives nicely in a 24" barrel and the Weatherby needs a 26". I had a 24" 300 Weatherby and ballistically it was a really loud 300 Win with too much muzzle blast.

I don't think there is a huge difference in recoil between the two all things being equal. IMHO the Weatherby seems to kick more because of Weatherby stock design, put them in a straight classic style stock and they feel about the same - I have 300 Weatherby's in both styles as well as several 300 Win's..

In the end both are great rounds but my choice would be the 300 Win if you want a 24" barrel and the 300 Weatherby has a little extra juice if you don't mind a 26" barrel, but if you really want more HP jump on up to a 300 Ultra and shoot 200gr Accubonds..................DJ

I've used both (the .300 Winny was "my" cartridge for a long time) and I couldn't tell that much difference in them. If you're limited to factory ammo I'd go with the .300 Winny. More choices and a bit less expensive.

HBB

I would choose (and have chosen several times), the 300 Win over the 300 Wby mainly because I don't like to fuss with the long freebore of the Wby. Sometimes a rifle likes to have the bullet close to the lands, and with the Wby that just isn't an option in a SAAMI spec chamber.

Your buddy might be right about finding ammo in africa. I can't tell you for sure as I have not been there yet. I can tell you that if you are hunting in backwoods arkansas, missouri, and many places in New Mexico you could end up SOL if you forget the fodder for the weatherby. Just a thought but like I said, not a real reason to pick one over the other if you are smart enough to bring your gear.

Jim

I have had both. The Weatherby is unpleasant to shoot just from being so LOUD. Recoil difference is minimal, mostly because the MK V Deluxe I had was HEAVY. I will take the Winnie any day. Mine shoots 180's at 3120, which just happens to be factory velocity for the Weatherby, with less powder which means less blast. Truth be known, I rarely shoot max loads anymore. I much prefer 165's in the Winnie or wsm. Less blast and less kick.

Guys it is the guns, not the rounds. The speed diff is not much I would bet 100 fps for the norm.

If you take and build two rifles exactly the same (not taking one factory in one cal built like this and one built in another factory rifle built like that), in other words keep it all apples to apples except for the speed. Except for the one is a WM and the other is a 300 Roy.

You will not know the difference in recoil!

I can most likely hit you harder than the extra 100 fps is gonna hit you in extra recoil!

Mark D

Mark you are 100% on the money................. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

If you're not planning on running around with a rifle in the woods and want some serious long-range power, well, quit screwing around and get a Remington 700 POLICE in .300 RUM...damn-it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/700p.htm
NOTE: the website's pic shows a 'short action' --- pay no-never-mind to that...

OR, you could get REALLY SERIOUS and order one of these!
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/m24a2.htm

OR
One of these:
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/700ltr.htm


Then again, I like Remingtons...

Poodle Humper?

Nah. I just saw the title and you immediatly came to mind; your feelings toward magnums are quite clear. What? No sense of humor? Jeesh!/

I had to make the same decision a couple of years ago when I had a 300 built. I was very close to going with the Weatherby,but in the end chose the 300 Win and am very pleased.I have owned a 300 Wea. before and the 300 WIN MY OPION is as good of a killer in the field. In fact my longest kill has been with the 300 Win.Read the post and pictures here:

http://precisionlongrangehunter.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7011083821/m/9911043131

The accuracy of either can be quite good, check out these grops fred at 300 yatds wth my 300 win:

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/s...p;page=4#108976

If you want more than the 300 Win offers then step up to a 300 RUM as it offers about a 100 fps more than the Weatherby.The RUM and Weaterby both require a longer action than the Win does

Good point on that Mark. I for one get beat up more by the stock of the Monte Carlo Mark 5 then any other stock. My jaw hurts just thinking about it as I write this! I don't think anyone can feel the difference between the 2 in the same model rifle. In some old reloading manuals, the Winnie was loaded hotter then the Weatherby! If I had to choose I would pick the Weatherby. I love the way that case looks with a 200 Grain Partition on top. NYS

There have been parts of my life where I did a lot of long range chuck shooting. And every year I usually (and still do) put 1K rounds thru my fav open country rifle (mag action M700).

That old rifle is on its 8th tube, so I've been putting some rounds thru it. Several of the tubes have been in the 340 wby,the 300 Win and Wby and the big 7's.

I use a barrel with a bit of heft to it, it is a 4.5 weight Schneider and usually cut between 23" to 25". It will usually measure around .7" at the mzl and come in around 9 lbs all ready to rock.

People who are used to beatings with other rifles with similar rounds are always amazed at how user friendly this rig is when it is set up this way. I've had more than a few days in my life where I put 100 rounds thru it.

I was very fortunate early in my career to hang around with 3 gents older than I that advocated building rifles in this manner. Until I learned how to have one put together I continued to get beat up, didn't enjoy shooting the bigger rounds much and hence did not shoot as good as I could/should etc.

I shot out one Krieger tube in 300 (Win at first and then punched to Wby to see the diff in speed etc) at rock chucks and shooting at long range and as much big game as I could get in.

The two bullets that I used the most for this were the 165 Sierra HPBT and the 200 Sierra Bt. They both worked well and shot very well. The main diff to me was I could feel the bump a bit more when laying on the turf and shooting the heavier slugs. Not enough to ruin my form or concentration but I could tell you which one had run down the tube after dropping the hammer.

For game I used in that 300 tube (when it was a WM and a Wby) the 165 Sierra BTHP and the 200 Noz Pt.

Sorry to be rambling here, it is raining catz and dogz and I am bored and trying to get to the outdoors to chase bruins.

Make it your best day.

Mark D

I consider the extra 100 fps. the 300 Weatherby provides over the 300 Win. Mag. to be completely unnecessary, and the 300 Weatherby isn't as available or as shootable, either. You also have to deal with throating issues with the 300 Wby.

The 300 Win. Mag. will do all that the 300 Wby. will do, with none of the drawbacks, plus it brings to the table some real advantages of its own, including a wide availability of high-quality ammo and brass, significantly less noise and recoil, world-wide ammo availability, and I'm convinced greater inherent accuracy. Since 1963, 85% or so of the 1,000 yd. Wimbleton winners have used the 300 Win. Mag., which speaks volumns. You can also get by very nicely with a handy 24" bbl with the 300 Win. Mag. and still get 3100 fps. with 180s, but you really need a 26 on a 300 Wby. to get the most out of it.

I've literally shot the gamut with a 300 Win. Mag. over the years and have largely filled a trophy room with it, including everything from Texas whitetails to African Cape buffalo, and from point-blank out past 500 yds. To this day I fail to see that another 100 fps. from a 300 Wby. would have added anything practical whatsoever in the way of performance.

Mostly it would have added a burden......... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

AD

[/quote] Ah come on- there is day and day out a bit over 100 fps diff between the two rounds. Some rifles will be a bit more and some a bit less. But generally when both are loaded to the max there will not be much diff.

A person who can handle a WM can handle a Wby, there aint a hill of beans diff between the two.

Keep them in similar rifle types and one will never know which one they are working with

Mark D [/quote]

I hand load and I have no problems reaching 3300 fps in the 300 Weatherby. The best I could wring out of my Model 70 (24" barrel) was 3055 fps. As to whether it makes a difference on real live game, there is only anecdotal evidence, but what Allen says rings true, I just like the Weatherby. jorge

PS: factory ammo clocks right at 3245-3260 in my 300 Weatherby

A thousand rounds out of one rig alone? I miss Montana, I tell you! Home bored too, My lady has the outfit so I am stuck in the city and not much to do until about 2 here! My cousin has a German Mark 5 in 340, Talk about pain and suffering! My 300 model 70 jumped quite a bit but didn't beat me all that bad, compared to Mark 5s in 300 it was a pussy cat.Do you have a pic of the rig that you can post? And what does it wiegh? NYS

Ah come on- there is day and day out a bit over 100 fps diff between the two rounds. Some rifles will be a bit more and some a bit less. But generally when both are loaded to the max there will not be much diff.

A person who can handle a WM can handle a Wby, there aint a hill of beans diff between the two.

Keep them in similar rifle types and one will never know which one they are working with

Mark D [/quote]

I hand load and I have no problems reaching 3300 fps in the 300 Weatherby. The best I could wring out of my Model 70 (24" barrel) was 3055 fps. As to whether it makes a difference on real live game, there is only anecdotal evidence, but what Allen says rings true, I just like the Weatherby. jorge

PS: factory ammo clocks right at 3245-3260 in my 300 Weatherby [/quote]


Jorge- a couple of quick things about comparing loads, IMO you need to always use the same tube lengths. I noticed that you mentioned your M70 @ 24". Have you done any comparing of speeds when both the tubes wore (nice spl?) the same length?

A couple of things about that, first off it sort of sounds like you're comparing a 24" WM ot the 26" Wby. Yes or no? If so that is not a good test.

Secondly, have you worked with more than one WM and or was that 24" M70 your one and only and I guess the same Q for the Wby.
It is kind of a dangerous thing to do but the way I read that it sounds like you're only worked with the one. But, assumption is a dangerous thing to do. So I am curious but have you worked with more than one or no?

Also if possible it is really nice to take a certain tube work up to max speed as a WM and then punch it to Wby and do the same. That has for me always been the best way to get a true handle on how much more juice one can get. And yep I have done this b4 on several 300's and have found that pretty much day in and day out 100 fps and or a bit more and some a bit less is the outcome.

I have no doubt that you're pushing 3300 with the Wby ( I am also assuming you're talking 180's), I have long ago found out that if I want I can make a round do about whatever I want.

Also, I have found there to be many different thoughts on this whole speed and pressure deal and each and everyone of use goes about it differently.
And Weatherby is for darn sure not exempt from this. IMO they tend to push things pretty darn hard. But that is their choice.

Lastly, I've kind of gotten to the place in life where I tend to try to read the peoples personality type and then suggest which round to go with. Meaning, if they are the type that need/want/lust for all the speed they can get then I always suggest the bigger engine.

I have less and less time in life for those that want to make a round run this and or that speed and by God they are gonna get there.

And that is why more and more I suggest either the WM or the RUM and not the Wby so much anymore.

Not at all by the way putting you in this category or any other category for that matter.

Personally I like speed, I also like to keep the round in the realm of what years has taught me is prudent to have it running. And trust me I've not always went about life this way, but am slowly but surely pulling my ears back a bit.

Life for me is just too short and it is not worth it to try to push a round a bit more faster to get to this and or that speed.

To end this wabbit chasing I firmly believe that 100 fps is day in and day out the diff between the two. Take a look and see the diff if you sight them both exactly the same @ 100 and then see what the diff is at 400 or 500. It aint worth it is all I can say.

Make it your best day, and by all means if your Wby turns your crank and you think it is better than a WM then use it.

Mark D

Mark: Correct on all counts. 24" vs 26". But I have played around quite a bit with the 300 Win Mag, but much more so with the Weatherby. MY 3300 fps load is 84gr of 7828 and I test all my loads in the hot ( above 90 degF) Florida heat. THe only thing I differ with your post is the RUM which I equate closer to the 30/378 and I've never tried those two. Hey, just like brunettes or blondes, I prefer the Weatherby and that I am guilty of I just like the caliber and have taken lots of game with it. The 300 Winnie makes more sense to be sure. Oh yeah one more observation: I am not a velocity chaser either. I just happened to arrive at that 3300 fps load, but my "go to" load is a 180gr TSX (all I shoot out of my 300s are 180s) 80.5gr od RL 22 and Remington Brass. The same load using Weatherby brass yields about 3185. Guess I got brainwashed by reading too many Weatherby guides as a kid. jorge

My 26 inch gain twist barrel chambered in 300 win is on par or a hair faster than my 300 Roy.Mind you the roy is a 24 inch barrel.Both are great rounds.

It's kinda like the 270 vs 280 while both shooting 150 grain bullets.Spliting hairs.

7STW, Well said. To me it would be a matter of which action you are going to use. If the action length is adequate to handle 300WBY then go that way or 300RUM (my new favorite small bore) If you want to use a medium length action then go 300Win. In any of the above scenarios you will be very well served. I do, however, like a littel more weight in my rifles than what you are setting out in your parameters. If you are going to stay in that range then the 300Win probably makes the most sense. I have shot a lot of game with the 300WBY and none with the Win but I can see where in an 8lb. rifle the slightly less case capacity and powder charges of the 300Win would be a plus. As an aside, 300WBY ammo is readialy found in Alaska and Africa for the most part. Also, I have seen guys use 300WIN ammo in a 300 WBY rifle and it works just fine. What you get is a fireformed 300Mag case with a real short neck but accuracy and performance have been quite good where I have been around to observe.

Excellent point. It's amazing how many people claim to know the exact difference between two chamberings having only compared a couple different barrels.

I would get the 300 win because ammo is easier to find in a pinch. The wby is good but when hand loading they are about the same.

I would go with the Winny. More common, cheaper factory ammo, Lapua brass is made for it, and the performance differance in the real world is nill.
There are not many animals that you cant take effectivly with a good 180gr bullet @ 3100 fired from a 300 Winny.

That's primarily why I'm having my .300 Wby Sako 75 rebarreled to .300 Win with a Lilja barrel. I can play around with seating depth, but with so much freebore in the Wby. it doesn't seem to matter since I can't get close to the lands. Plus, I can get my favorite Lapua brass in .300 Win but not .300 Wby.

Just outta curiosity ... who here has gone into a gun shop or sporting goods store that has ammo and hasn't found 300 WBY ammo (other cartridges perhaps ... but I've always found ammo for the Roy's 300). Heck, the last FOUR Walmarts I've been in have carried Remmy 180 gr. CorLokts for the 300 WBY!! I shoot a 300 WBY and typically always look when I go somewhere new, just incase there's a deal to be had. Granted the CorLokts wouldn't be my first choice at those velocities for a close shot on a bigger animal, but on deer's they're devastating!!

Recoil .... yeah its a LITTLE more punishing, but not as much as the hissy fit above would lead me to believe. I'm more inclined to believe the rifle's stock you were shooting was a poor fit for your body!

Lastly, Freebore, freeschmore <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Weatherby and Sako have been building accurate outta the box rifles for many years!!! Whilst you may want to play with seating depth ... is it really needed? Let's face it if freebore was a real hinderance to accuracy as MANY here would have you think, I really doubt the Weatherby line of cartridges would have survived!!!

By the same token there is NO flies sittin' on the 300 Winnie! An outstanding cartridge. I happened to choose the Roy while shopping for MY 300 mag and have no regrets. I didn't choose the WBY to part of a special, unique or different crowd as johnw would have you to believe. I have nothing to prove to him or anyone else.

You can listen to all the bullshit spewed here and elsewhere on the 'net, but the bottom line is choose which ever is more appealing to you, there isn't a loser between the two!!

Good Luck and keep us up to date on your project.

I could tell you the name of a lot of small towns here in Montana where you may find a box of WM but I sure would not be for betting on finding a box of Wby ammo.

As to the freebore and Wby's, they are all about speed. Without cutting their chambers this way they would be giving up a good deal of their marketing.

I've yet to of ever found a serious and I mean serious shooter and hunter that had a stock Wby, coveted it and loved it. I know of more than a few hunters that use them and covet and love them. But, this group of fellas is not into the accuracy game like the first group. They site in their rifles and go and hunt.

Personally I do feel that Wby's day in and day out see less hill time than other rifles. Just my observation is that a goodly share of the Wby's out there are safe queens. Some of them go on a few guided hunts here and there but most are not hunted hard. Nor are most held to very high of expectations.

Personally I do love the freebore rounds and I have them put onto platforms other than the Mark 5. Main reason being is that I like barrel weight in a rifle and the Mark 5 is too darn heavy for me. I want the weight out front and not in the action.

Just the way I see it.

Mark D

The freebore issue with Weatherbys is not what is used to be. When Roy first started loading his stuff, all he had available was IMR4350, H-4831 7 Norma 205.

Later when MRP came along it got a bit better but the lack of slow burining powders was reason he had to long throat his rifles, which by the way I've never found to hinder accuracy. While I'm not an anal retnetive handloader, all of my Weatherbys are sub MOA shooters. But I digress.

Newer Weatherbys' throats are all somewhat shorter than older ones as a result of newer, slower powders so the "excessive freebore" alarum was much to do about nothing back the and even less so now.

And MArk, what you say is somewhat true in that "us Weatherby aficionados" are not part (thank god!) of the paper-punching "accuracy-uber-alles" crowd. I disagree that most Weatherbys see little use, maybe at the target range, but certainly not in the hunting fields of the world. Your "safe Queen" postulate is a generalization based on anecdotal evidence and not fact.

To a great extent, and not by any means cast in stone, what sets Weatherby owners apart is fiscal abundance and the well-to-do tend to go on more guided hunts than the average Joe, but that has nothing to do with the rifle's capabilities as a hunting tool and in my modest opinion, Weatherbys excel in that capacity. jorge

Probably the most well-known Weatherby hunter was Elgin Gates. Elgin was a well known paper puncher as well as an obsessive hunter.

Elgin was argueably the most well traveled and greatest sporting hunter of the 20th Century. He hunted Africa for nearly 30 years, many of his hunts were true expeditions into areas unknown. He had a standing agreement with Jack Blacklaws (one of Africa's greatest and most debonair White Hunters) that Elgin would fund any exploratory safari into virgin country, provided Elgin went along, then Blacklaws could have it to take the rest of his clients. Through this type of agreement, Gates helped to reopen French Equatorial Africa, Sudan, Uganda, and Mozambique to sport hunting. In doing so, Gates got first crack at wildlife virtually unknown to the outside world. Some instances, Gates would explore by himself, flying into some remote village in the wilds of Africa and hiring the locals to help him mount an expedition.

Hunting Asia was his mecca, especially the areas marked "unmapped", "boundaries approximate", or "unexplored". Gates was as much a modern day explorer as he was a hunter. His Asian hunts usually found him on the very edge of civilization hiring a few locals for shikars and porters, then traipsing into vast mountain stretches of the Pamirs, Tian Shans, Altais and rest of the Himalayas. Once he was arrested by a roving Tibetian Army, freed only after he was able to pull an abcessed tooth of commanding officer and "take the devil from his mouth". Hunting for Marco Polo Sheep, he dodged the invading Chinese Army, while fully prepared to defend himself and his camp, "I will not allow them to capture us.". Gates marched, on foot, 95 miles into the most remote sections of the Himalayas in November through blinding snowstorms to hunt Marco Polo sheep. With provisions running out and the snows deepening, temps falling to as low as -30, he climbed over Taghdumbash pass at 20,800 feet to hunt the world's No.1 big game trophy, but not for trophy's sake, without that meat, he, his porters, and shikars would starve or die of sickness as provisions had run out.

Ever the adventurer, even in the face of the Chinese invasion of Hunza, Gates defiantly crossed over into China, slipping behind a Chinese patrol, to shoot a Himalayan Ibex. He actually took the time to write a note:
"Dear Mao:
Just a short note to let you know how much I enjoyed my recent hunt in China. I apologize for not having a hunting license for Sinkiang Province, but with the approval of Ayub Khan and a little help from a couple of your boys, the hunt was a great success. I'm pleased to inform you that I will always cherish this wonderful gift from China."
This note, of course, was meant as a slap in the face to Chairman Mao.


Gates has 152 African trophies listed in Rowland Ward's Records of Big Game. He also has 54 trophies from Asia listed and 26 from North America, for a total of 232 in the book. He was the Weatherby Award winner in 1960.

Elgin raced motor boats winning several national championships and set 26 world records. He won 17 national and international championships in clay target shooting. Won 3 International Olympic-style championships in 8 years, defeating every member fo the elite and highly trained military teams from the U.S. Army, Air Force, Marines, and Navy. He was the only civilian to ever do so. Elgin also founded the International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association (IHMSA) and helped develop many of the Dan Wesson Super Mag cartridges.

Don't there was more of a gun crank than him and Herb Klein.

Nice and very accureate description of Elgin Gates. If my memory serves ,I believe Elgin took most if not all of his trophy's with the 300 Wea.

Oh, and personally, I'd choose the 300 H&H Mag. Matter of fact, I already did and really enjoy the rifle and cartridge. Very easy to load for and accuracy has been very good with several 200 grain loads shooting less than MOA. My rifle is a factory (except the stock) pre-64 Winchester M70.

In the UP of Michigan Weatherby ammo is pretty rare. My friend has to drive 60 miles to buy ammo for his and even then the Gander mountain store he goes to has a crappy selection compared to the .300 winny.
As for the freebore thing. I belive it to be a detriment to accuracy based on converstaions I have had with my gunsmith. I trust his oppinion over most others as he has proven himself in my eyes to not be a bs'er and he also happens builds very accurate rifles. he also happens to be a avid benchrester as well.
Another draw back to the Weatherby is thats its mostly chambered in Weatherby guns. Weatherby rifles IMO are garish, heavy, 60's throwbacks, and are cumbersome clubs. Just IMO.

I didn't mean in my earlier post that the Weatherby freebore caused me any great problems, it didn't. My Sako was plenty accurate even with the extensive freebore. However, being a curious person and a tinkerer, it's just my nature to want to experiment with different handloading techniques and seating a bullet next to the lands is something I'd like to be able to play with. With the .300 Wby I could seat bullets as far out as the magazine allowed and still not be anywhere close to the lands. I have no misconceptions, though, that switching to the .300 Win. will somehow allow me to kill more animals, it certainly won't. It simply adds another variable to my reloading, which to me makes it (reloading) more interesting. Plus, I had loaded for the Wby longer than any other cartridge and was growing bored with it.

If you really wanted to be cool, you'd get the H&H.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, the rifle Elgin used for most of his hunting was chambered in 300 Wby Mag. Even used it to take his largest Elephant...

Yep Elgin and most of the other Wby awards winners did get around a bit...

Mark D

Well I gotta tell you all a big thanks, I've been flipping back & forth up & down over & over of what to get. 1st of my back up rifle is always the great 30-06 with a 165 gr Nosler for anything I can hunt in the GREAT USA. But I wanted to get a little more specific with deer & antelope so I was deciding between the 257 wby mag & the 25-06 with 100 grain bullets. Ballisticlly they are the same so I went with the 25-06.
Then for elk & moose I wanted something bigger. I love my 300WM but all the hoopla of 300 WBY had me wondering. After reading this I have decided to stay with / go with the tried & true 300 WM.
NOW ALL I NEED TO DO IS DECIDE ON A 300WM OR 300WSM, why oh why do they give me choices???

I think we have differing opinions of basic ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

While I have a 25-06, I'd really like to have the Roy version someday!!!

With the given weight and barrel length parameters,my choice would be the 300winmag.If you really want more performance,skip over the 300wby and go directly to the 300ultramag,as it offers slightly better performance with similarly priced brass,and the same magazine capacity.But in that case you would want a 26" barrel.

George,
Keep looking.... I'll let you shoot mine when you get here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I am going to try Ramshot Magnum and 100's but the 110's will light matches.
BTW- the 77/17 was fine....

I would vote "Winnie". Personally, I've never shot a .300 Wea ( have a .270 and .340 Wea though) but have worked extensively with the Winnie. From an aesthetic point of view - more pleasing to my eye - I would choose the .308 Norma second, after the Wea. but we're being practical here.

Most of the reasons have already been given here with the exception I think that the Winnie is shorter (case length is 2.620 vs 2.825 for the Wea) and can be fitted into a .30-06-length action if that is of any interest.

No offense to all the world-wide trophy hunters who used the Roy and not minimizing their experience but all things being equal if that were possible - and that means the only difference is a 100 fps - does anyone think the outcome would have been any different with the Winnie? There are cartridges with greater differences among their own factory loads.

The .300 Wea is no doubt a great cartridge but as we know much is in timing and press and Roy's hit the glamour payload with Roy Rogers, the Duke ( I think) and other Hollywood types and even Royalty taking it all over the world.

Another tastes great less filling argument. Either one is fine, it boils down to the type of rifle you want, as for me, hell, I would just stuff a rifle with 200 gr Noslers out of a Roy and forget it. The Roy is loaded by a whole bunch these days. The Great thing about Gates is that he had the post War 2 world to play in, and a lot of money to play with. And so did Herb Klien and the Late Shah's brother. Those guys really got to play. A lic for Kenya was you could shoot 50 head or so. Now you have to write a check with so many zero's that your hand will go numb. Oh well on the other hand just about anybody that really wants to can go to Africa or any were else.

Dave, glad to hear the 17 is a keeper! ... went last week-end to pick up the 257 we discussed in the past ... and after a friggin' year it finally sold!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I snooze I lose.

For killing,I can like the 300WSM pretty damned good and I've had a herd of Big 30's.

Can still like the 257Wby better than any of them.......................

Goodnews, in my experience, the 300 Weatherby is about 100 fps., on average, than the 300 Win. Mag. when both are loaded to their full potential. I've never seen that the 300 Weatherby kills stuff any better than the 300 Win. Mag., though, but it does burn more powder, make more noise, and kick harder. I don't need it, and I'd rather simply stick with the 300 Winchester, as I have for many years.

Weatherby Award winner James Mellon used the 300 Win. Mag. to take literally ever legal-to-hunt species of the world's big game, and he spent five solid years in Africa (basically one big safari across most of the continent) and he used the 300 Win. Mag. much more than anything else, and also all across Asia, North America, etc.........

Quite honestly, I don't think there's any practical difference on game between the 300 WSM, 300 H&H, 308 Norma, 300 Win. Mag., or 300 Wby. Load a 180 gr. bullet @ 3000 fps. + out of any other them, and you've arrived with all you need for just about anything...........

AD

Do the W.B. & if it bucks to hard, download it to Winnie specs. Neither you, the target, or anybody watching will know the difference and you can truthfully tell everybody that you shoot a big W.B. The macho thing.