All three are sub moa.

1. 8lb 12oz scoped, 130 TTSX at 3100 fps.
2. 8lb scoped, 130 Partition at 3100 fps.
3. 8lb 2oz scoped, 140 Accubond at 2950 fps.

I am going to sell two. Just based on the info above, opinions?

Since you are not considering Make, model, or configuration, keep #2.

Jack

Keep the Winchester Classic

Whichever one that is.

Keep #2 or 3, probably #3.

#1 and #3 are Pre-64 Winchesters.

#2 is a Mauser.

All 3 are high end rifles.

If any are the Biesen, sell that one.
...
To me!
😉

Actually, one is the Biesen.

I would not pick based on your information.

I would have to play with them all and see which one feels and fits the best.

^^^^^^^This! Which fits and feels better to you and which do you like best? Most likely that is the one you'll shoot best under field conditions.
Rick

For the sake of this conversation lets assume I have no preference.

IMO there's no difference in the loads of 1 and 2 so id take 2 for the lighter weight. #3 should get more velocity, but it's basically equal to the others.

Well,the answer is obvious then! You really don't want to get rid of any of them. You are being influenced by an outside source.

If necessary,have a friend keep two if them and discretely,take out a small loan. Show the evil outside influence the evidence,and sneak the rifles back into the safe when she isn't looking.

I would keep the one that you can shoot the best in field positions, which is likely the best balancing rifle. Sub-moa groups on the bench are only a small part of the equation. No animal will ever discern the difference between the loads you have listed.

Grins, no pressure. Just in the midst of simplifying my life.

Of course not knowing what your motivation is to thin the herd it is difficult to advise. If your reasoning is not related to financial, health or storage capacity I would keep them all and enjoy them.

If there is no fit / feel / ergonomic preference ... #2 ... Hard to beat an 8 lb .270 Win moving a 130gr Partition at 3100fps...

IF that’s the case.... keep the lightest one.

I’d absolutely LOVE to own the Biesen.

Jerry

1. Biesen Pre-64
2. Ottmar stocked Grisel custom DSB small ring Mauser
3. Pre-64 Winchester 70 Super Grade Featherweight

The bullet stats have no consequence and they are all heavy rifles. I'd keep the one I have the closest "connection" with. Good luck.

Looks like all very similar rifles, id keep the one that felt the best to Me......Good luck ....Hb

Keep #2

But I like lighter rifles.

Ummm, they’re all good but... if #2 is made by a certain PG... just text me first. You don’t want to keep that one

#2 is the Ottmar/Grisel

The information provided is not enough to separate them... Based on what's provided... Keep the lightest one.

The real answer would be keep whichever one you like to shoot and use the best.

If you really can't decide.. List all three and keep the one that is left after the other two have sold.


-Jake

You already know which one you like best. Keep that one.

You'd think it would be that simple.

I am partial to the Ottmar, but not to the point where I can't let it go. Although the 130 grain partition at 3100 feet per second as a great load.

However the 270 Winchester needs to be chambered in a pre-64 model 70, right?

I've read too much JOC.

Letting the market decide does have its merits.

Rifles???? We don't see no stinkin' rifles.........

Top to bottom;

Super Grade Featherweight
Biesen
Ottmar/Grisel

I’d sell them all and buy a .264 wm
😇

I already have that covered.

Lol,
Your smart.
If it were me I’d keep the Biesen.
It’s beautiful.

No wonder you have a hard time deciding!!!

I've never sold a firearm that I did not regret later. Oh, and I have never sold a single rifle and have no plans to do so in the near or far future. What is wrong with you?

I want to preface this by saying I like .270s, m70 Winchesters and Jack O'Connor..

But

Saying a .270 "needs" to be chambered in a m70 is silly logic. I do not agree with it.

Thats as like saying all Mausers must all be chambered in only metric calibers. Even Europeans don't believe that.

All three rifles are relatively rare guns.

Rifle number 2 is the lightest and by far the rarest rifle of three. I doubt there are 100 Grisel Small ring Mauser action rifles in the world. Ottmar's work is just as good as Beisens and even more rare.

Frankly, I would sell the m70 Super grade for a tidy sum to a collector and keep the two customs if I could..

If forced to sell another, I think the fact that the Beisen name recognition due to their O'Connor connection and they fact Al has passed and Roger is retired ,places a higher current value on them than their actual merits compared to other custom makers...So I would sell No1 if I had to sell two and keep no 2.

I would put no1 and no3 up for sale on Guns International and a few forums for the high side of the market and wait for the right buyer to come along.

I do know this for sure ,the reason why Pete Grisel first designed a small ring m98 mauser on his own(pre Dakota Arms) instead of a m70 clone was that he had a very dim view of the m70's gas handling qualities based on personal ecperience. It is also why the Dakata m76 rifles have a bolt stop that blocks the left raceway. He told me this in person several times. I know which one he would tell you to keep;)

Also,due to its ideal combination of all the most desirable Mauser features in one action,the Grisel Small ring action is considered maybe the best M98 style action ever made for a light custom sporter. Only the Oberndorf Pre war Kurz actions equal it.

I'm just the opposite, I'd keep the factory original.

Unfortunately the Super Grade is not factory original, a previous owner had the stock bedded.

jk, you make a lot of sense.

Close enough for me, and still a tad closer than the other two.

But that's just me, I've never been into customs.

I do know how tough these decisions are, I feel your pain.

NY

"IRREgardless of EVERYTHING said above, I've read it all, I would HAVE to keep the Biesen.

PM if you decide to sell it!!!!!


Jerry

Keep this one, that one, and the other one.

Jerry I sent you a p.m.

Looking at that picture I would be looking to keep the Beisen in the middle, the bottom rifle would be my second choice. Selling the Super Grade would be an easy decision after looking at them side by side.

I sent you one back. grin

Performance wise, they are the same. You can interchange the bullets and powder to get what you want in any of them. They all are quality. For me it is #2 without a dought.
A Mauser 98 that has been tended to by the masters has some serious soul. I would sell everything else. It is a family treasure and should be passed on.
Love to see photos of all three.

MLF, pictures are posted further up in the thread.

^^ THIS! ^^ ...... It's the lightest and the nicest of the bunch with a good probability of increase in value given the builder.

OK, I will play.
From the bullet list:
1- TTSX
2. NP
3. NAB

From the pics:
1- Ottmar/Grisel
2- Biesen
3. Supergrade

Send the Supergrade down the road first.

If it is a gun you really expect to use, keep the Biesen, sell the Griesel/Ottmar. If, on the other hand, it is being kept primarily as an example of the gunmaking craft, do the reverse.

The Griesel double square bridge action is gorgeous and as noted above, quite rare. Part of the beauty is the integral scope mounts, but the system is unique, and I could see it getting a little ginky as the parts start to wear. And no source for replacement parts. At least with the Biesen you are dealing with a less technologically brittle scope mounts.

But they are all magnificent once in a lifetime guns that I know I would have a hard time selling.

Will gents I've had multiple inquiries for the Biesen, so I know which one is the most desirable!

I'll say keep number 3.

#3

As much as I like pre64M70's that Mauser is too cool, plus the fact it is lighter, I vote the Grisel/Ottmar Mauser.
I would keep all three unless I had no choice.

Keep #1

You can't go wrong with the 130 TTSX!

Geez, if you can't make this decision you don't deserve to have any of them. Send them all to me and go buy something a little less conflicting.....

Bob

If you can't pick one you like then sell them all

After seeing the pics, I'll stay with #2 the Mauser. Lighter partly because slightly more open grip, and a bit more svelte dimensions.

Is there some kind of a rule about having more than two 270's?

Tough choices! They all look like safe queens to me, keep the prettiest one and build a working 270.

Keep the Biesen.

Biesen

Sell #1 & 2, use the proceeds to help fund a trip for #3 to hunt plains game in Africa.

Pics please! Of the rainbow flag flying over your house.

I'm selling to partially fund a 7x57 build!

Louie, I do like the way you think!

Send them all here. Ill sell two of them,and forward you the money,and a more domestic 270 to use and abuse with a clear conscience. It will be a shooter I guarantee. The third one will live here. Loved and cherished. Sounds like a winner all around.

I have decided to sell the Biesen first.

If you are interested PM for details.

Please keep in mind this is a full custom by one of the legendery names in the business, in his signature caliber.

Al is deceased, Roger has retired, there will be no more new Biesens.

It will accordingly be priced north of the two Dakotas that are currently in the classifieds.

Guys after 2 days of Gut Wrenching, Heart Breaking decision making I told NY that I would pass on the Biesen.

It's just too late in life for me to invest in a Rifle that I ALWAYS admired & wanted.

The field is open, AFAIK.

Jerry

I appreciate everybody's input.

The first custom rifle I ever held was at Hallowell & Co when they were located in Greenwich Connecticut.

That rifle was a Maurice Ottmar stocked 30-06. I was a poor college student at the time and couldn't afford the paltry $3,500 it would have cost to bring it home.

I was however determined to own an Ottmar one day. His rifles, particularly on pre 64 Winchester or custom Mausers are the Holy Grail (to me at least).

Thus I have decided to keep the Ottmar. The fact that it weighs under 8 lb scoped, shoots the 130 partition load so well and is a rare Pete Grisel double square Bridge Mauser seals the deal.

I will list the featherweight super grade on one of the usual gun sights at a tidy profit and wait for the buyer who wants it more than I do, shooting and enjoying it in the meanwhile.

If you have an Ottmar (or a Goens, or any name sub 8lb custom) I might be interested in and would like to trade towards either the Biesen or SG FW please contact me.

Thanks again.

NY

Go ahead....TWIST the knife.




Jerry

That Ottmar is an extremely nice gun, I like it's clean classic look. The other two should sell pretty easy, that Beisen is an absolute beauty.

Buy it, you know you want to

Easy for me to say since you would be forking out the $$$$ lol.

Want it is an understatement ! ! !

Jerry

The other thing NY has not shared is he has ANOTHER Biesen stocked m70 in 30-06.. :()

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...2657403/gonew/1/a-pair-of-biesens#UNREAD

Frankly I think the 30-06 Biesen is a better example of his work than the .270 .The blank the stock is made from is better laid out in terms of grain flow (quartersawn) and it just as pretty ,if not moreso. Also, the '06 stock has Al Biesen's trademark recessed fleur de lis Checkering pattern. To me having a Biesen stock with a point pattern is like like bread with no butter..:) But, I do realize some folks preffer a point psttern.

I know one thing , if you asked Jack OConnor late in his life what rifle he would own if he could only have one rifle- It probably would have been a Biesen stocked pre 64 m70 in 30-06- not .270..

WHO asked you ?

I agree about JOC and the 06---> but I'm not JOC. I personally prefer the 270 in THIS instance.

How many of us have had the opportunity to own a gorgeous Biesen 270 ? ....huh

Jerry

I'm trying to convince someone else to buy it.

Just buy the thing already lol.

Actually, I was not directly adressing you with that post.

If you like that .270 and have the cash , then go for it.

jk

I did NOT take exception to your post. I replied in humor.

ATST - During my "maturity" as a rifle NUT, .... JOC wrote more about the 270 than the 06, or at least I read more about it.

Either would be great but yes I prefer the 270 in THIS instance.

No Harm No Foul

Jerry

I think you made the right decision. You have great taste in Classic rifles. There's an expression:" The lions den is never free of bones." ......

+1000....

Thanks for the kind words gents.