I think 6.5 creedmoor cant be called a fad cartidge anymore because it seems like its killing off the 708 rem. Maybe even the 243.

I've noticed my cabelas ads come and the short action guns are in 6.5 or 308 only. no 243, 260, or 708 listed.

I've also noticed the 6.5 creed ammo is selling near 308 price at the store while my 7mm08 ammo is much higher..

That amazes me. I cant get behind it being a elk or bear cartridge, but its a very capable deer round that seems to be killing the 243 and 7mm08.

Heck... I'm kind of in the market for a 243, but I'm toying with a creed. Its just too close to my 7mm08 and 308 though.

Your thoughts gentlemen?
Did the marketing machines get this one right?

(my apologies if this has been discussed before)

Interest in the chambering has resulted in sales volumes which justify lower pricing of Creedmoor ammo, much like the .308win. The dual-role nature, spanning the tactical and medium-game crowds allows it to have a substantial market share. The 7mm-08 is a fine round, one of my favorites for hunting, but it is currently overshadowed by the Creedmoor when it comes to rifle/ammo availability and demand.

The 7-08 is a great round, so is the Creed.

I have them both, like them both.

The Creed won't replace the 7-08; it's here to stay.

Target shooters do dominate to some extent, the popularity of these rounds.

Hunters may be taking a back seat in that regard, but are still a significant market force.

DF

Who GAF? Use what you like, and don't panic over the market. Rifles are maybe the ultimate in durable goods, and it's possible to feed almost anything these days by hook or crook. Why there has to be almost daily debate over the various cartridges with the attendant butthurt over ones their fans feel are being neglected or disrespected baffles me. Buck up girls; it's gonna be okay, I promise.

So what you're saying is that if I like my 270, I can keep my 270?

The onset of Creeditus reminds me of when the rich kids got to use playing cards in the spokes of their wheels and us poor kids were stuck with old baseball cards.

I have both, 7mm-08 ain’t going nowhere!

Not killing them in my house - I currently ONLY have 4 7MM-08's!! Should have another sometime next year. Had a 6.5 Creed Tikka and sold it.

From a hunting standpoint, the 7mm-08 really has my attention these days with the 120's, as we are getting 3,100+ in an 18" carbine with CFE223. Big Game also is impressive.

Sighted in with a 225yd zero (120 TTSX), 100yd point of impact is only 2" high, and the 300yd impact is 5" low. That will do 90% of what I need a rifle to do these days, and not punish my shoulder while doing it. Compact/handy rifle too.

The dirtiest 7-08 trick is/was 162 Amax....

Elk? Yeah, Too Powerful, the...weaker 6.5x47 has taken elk just under 1,000 Yards........

Bear? Right bullet, no problem, I would not hesitate on Black bear, with good bullets.

90% of hunters use rounds that have more power and reach than what is needed on 90% of shots.

The 6.5 was never designed for dangerous game or extremely large game, but I would use it on anything in NA shy of the large bears, using Good bullets and placement. Hunters can use what makes them happy, odds are the round chosen will not be the weak link

It is mostly where you hit them as it has always been long before we ever heard of the 7mm-08 and the Creed. Guys have been comparing cartridges since the beginning. My .......... is better than your ....... Fill in the blank and here we go, hold on for dear life!!!

Did Minnesota legalize marijuana?!?

I had no idea who Honus Wagner was anyway.

Using those in my Montana.

While it won't replace the 7-08, I don't know if I'd go 7-08 from scratch as the 6.5 would do just about anything/everything I'll ever ask the 7-08 to do as well.

That said - bullets matter more and the 162 has been pretty wicked for me. I'm still sitting on several hundred I think.

Heck, go get yourself a 257 Weatherby and sight it in at 2 1/2”-3” high @ 100yds and call it a day! You’ll then have a rifle you can hold dead on out to darn near 400yds. You won’t even care about the Creedmoor or 7-08 anymore.

I doubt it will effect the sales of the 7-08 much at all.

The 243 and the 260 Remington..........yeah probably. Of the 2, the 260 is going to have the hardest time competing in the market place because there is so much emphasis from the marketeers to sell the 6.5CM and the truth is that it's close enough in performance and lacks no accuracy at all, so the 260 may be fading, and loosing ground soon.

Speaking for myself, I like the 26 caliber better overall then I do the 24 caliber.

Me too.

One .24, a .240 Wby.

Four .26's, Creed, Swede, 6.5-284 and Nosler.

To me, that's about the right ratio.

DF

The standard for short action cartridges has been 243, 7-08 & 308. Some manufacturers like Bergara have gone 243, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 308. Every short action is being offered in 6.5 Creedmoor now. It's taking market share from all 3 but it competes most directly with the 7mm-08. In factory ammo, they are both shooting 140 grain bullets which places them in direct competition.

I don't think the 243 is in any trouble.

It will slow down sales a bit of the 7-08.

The .243 is more versatile than the 6.5 CM or the 7-08 for those of us whose range of use encompasses varmints to deer. I have a Creedmoor and like it as a deer cartridge but it ain't as good a woodchuck gun as the .243. Personally I think the Creedmoor will cut into 7-08 sales in a big way and will cut into sales of the .243 but to a much lesser extent.

In my part of the world 7-08 has never been common. The 260 much less so. You'd have to go to a big city or order online to get ammo for either because it simply isn't carried locally. I don't know a single hunter who owns either. From where I'm sitting the CM hasn't hurt the 7-08 because no one was buying them anyway. There are a lot of people choosing it over 308 and 270 though. I don't see it having much, if any effect on 243.

Funny, I knew many fellas that used 7/08 in Greene, Jones, Gwinnett, and up in the mountain WMA's in the '90's. But the .308W was by far more often seen in short action rifles.

2 7-08's and a 7-08AI arriving in two days here. Id get My son a creedmoor but the wife said he's not allowed to play with Barbie's.

I think the 7-08 will carry on just fine on its own merits. The 243 should get more competition from the 6mm Creedmoor. If I was buying a new 6mm tomorrow it would be the Creedmoor simply because it has the correct twist to use the good 6mm bullets.

I agree that the 6CM has more potential of cutting into .243 market share because of the twist, great ammo at reasonable prices and long range, high ogive bullets.

It's gonna be interesting to see if that happens to the extent the 6.5 Creed has soaked up market share in its niche.

If Hornady is as aggressive marketing the 6CM and they've been with the 6.5CM, I wouldn't bet against them making it dent in .243 sales.

Time will tell.

DF

Not yet, but people are pushing for it.

How does this relate to the topic?

Its definitely popular, but I still haven't found a reason to get rid of any of my .260 or 7mm-08 rifles. The great thing, at least for us 6.5 reloaders/shooters, is the bullet selection is getting better and better.

Twist, bullets and powders have really changed the game.

And for the better.

DF

I agree with that. First off, I sold a 7-08 that I really tried to find some love for, and couldn't. I have a 6.5 Creed and for my purposes, find it to be a better choice for what I do, than the 7-08 was.

I have several 243's, and they are more versatile for what I do than the Creed could ever be. I use a 243 for coyote hunting quite a bit, and I can't see any scenario where the Creed could be better, unless I was shooting them a 1000 yards away, which I'm not. I do not think the 243 will be hurt at all, not even by the 6mm Creed.

If I was starting all over, I'd probably get a 6.5, but I've got a couple lifetime's worth of 7mm components and no need to change now.

To me, a lot depends on the particular rifle, how you like it or not.

DF

No good reason not to have both is there? I do, and like them a whole lot.

It’s just better marketing. As a hunting cartridge the 6.5 Creedmoor is on par to slightly inferior, certainly not better than the 7-08 at all reasonable ranges. But that’s nothing new for the 7-08. It languished for years and years with few options in new rifles when metric calibers without a “magnum” moniker did poorly. Finally over the last ten years it’s very natural and considerable merits started to get it the attention it deserved only to see the Creedmoor craze kick off and suck all the air out of the room not just for short action cartridges, but for seemingly everything else too.

Me, too.

Like'em both. Just put a NF SHV Forceplex 3-10x42 on my McWoody Mtn. Rifle 700, Shilen CM. Haven't even sighted it in yet.

DF

7-08 is a Bobby Hart built with 23" Rem factory contour in a Hunter's Edge. Sent Conquest back for elevation turret. Will get ballistic tape once I determine which load I want to go with.

So, IMO, it does depend a lot on the individual rifle. Both of these are keepers.

DF

I believe one will find more FACTORY rifles built correctly for the 6.5C than were built correctly for the 7/08.

Custom builds were/are the exception.

Creedmore builders have paid attention from the start. Built for a specific factory loading is a win/win for many.

Agree.

Great shooting off the shelf factory rifles, many at very low prices, great off the shelf ammo at good prices, the right twist for high ogive bullets, makes the perfect storm for gaining market share in an otherwise hard to penetrate market. David and Goliath. Guess who wins...

Hornady listens.

DF

OP here again...

WHen I saw my first creedmore rifle at cabelas, I walked over to the ammo aisle and found nothing to feed it.

It just amazes me the 6.5 is now available and supply is good enough to drop the price well below 7mm08.

Here in Wyoming and also in Montana, Idaho and Utah, I tend to see about as many 7-08 Bolt actions as I do 308 bolt actions. In military semi-autos the 308s are far more numerous of course, but many hunters like the 7-08 for hunting in the northern and central Rockies, and I am told by friends in Nevada that they are seeing the same. I have not seen many people out here that think of the 6.5 CM as a replacement for the 7-08, 308, 270, 7MM Mag or 30-06 so I am going to guess that the CM will make inroads into the popularity of the dedicated target shooters and dedicated Antelope and deer hunters in this region. Because of that, I think it's going to be the "coming thing" in competition with the 260 Rem and the 243s.

Most folks out here don't use 243s for varmint guns. That activity is dominated about 80% by the 223/5.56 NATO and the AR 15.

In the Mid West and the East this may not be true. The population of the Mid West and East is a LOT larger then the Rockies, or the Great Basin, so overall the sales of new guns in my area may not reflect what the national trend is. Heck most eastern cities have a larger population then the whole state of Wyoming by at least 2X. SO I have to admit that JamesJr may be right.

But around here the 7-08 is not seen in the same class as the 6.5 CM and so the CM is not outselling it. Not even close--- as of now at least.

The 6.5X55, 260 and 6.5 CM are all capable of killing elk well, but very very few people out here are going to buy a new gun for Elk hunting and choose any 6.5MM. The 270s 7MMs and 30s are far too successful, and have been for far too many years for the 6.5CM to gain much of a foot hold as the most popular elk shell. And many, if not most Rocky Mountain hunters choose a rifles for the largest game and shoot the smaller ones with it too. It must be remembered that we shoot elk as a common game, and we also have moose, bison, black bears and a LOT of Grizzlies too.

I think highly of the new 6.5CM and I know what it can do. But trying to unseat the 270 or the 30-06 (or even the 7-08, 7MM Mag and 308 Winchester) is not something that will happen very fast.

That would be like trying to win a 5 mile foot race and starting when the rest of the contestants have only 300 yard left to run before the finish line.

I will freely admit that the 6.5 Creedmoor is a fine chambering but I have three 243’s and have no reason to replace them. When I step up in class it goes to the 270 or 30-06. To each is own and it’s all good. 😊

I got the 6 for two reasons; the one you mentioned, and because it was what they had in stock.

The difference between the 6/.243 situation and the one between the 6.5 and everything else, is that the .24s are traditionally dual-use rounds, whereas the larger calibers usually aren't. The standard throating of the .243 is easier to get to shoot well with varmint-weight bullets than longer throats; this based on my own experience with a fast-twist, long-throat Ruger, and also the reviews of several 6 Creeds I've read. In the case of the Creeds, the reviewers were able to get good accuracy with one or two varmint bullets, but in general heavier bullets did better. I see my 6 as a medium game/predator, or maybe windy-day varmint rifle. Small varmints are the target of my Hornet, .223, or the .243 I "accidentally" acquired recently. If I wanted a dedicated .24cal varmint gun, I'd go with a .243AI to reduce trimming labor, or maybe a 6mm Remington.

Almost 60 years ago the .264 Winchester Magnum was presented to the shooting public as a round that straddled the fence between varmint class and big game cartridges.

I think the 6.5 Creedmoor does that even better than the Win Mag ever did. More efficiently, that's for sure!

I recently checked out some of the ammo selection at an Academy store. The shelf was well stocked with a wide variety of 6.5 Creedmoor cartridges. There were a few 7mm08 selections. There was one 6mm Rem selection. I didn't see even a shelf tag for 260 Remington.

At a Dick's/F&S store there was one 260 Rem selection, the 140 grain Rem Cor-Lokt at close to $40 a box. Fugg that.

The 6CM is kind of an orphan as to ammo now, but that may change if it catches on. No matter for me, I've only bought one box as to compare with what I'm loading; might buy one more now that I know what Barrett uses for testing. IIRC, the 6.5 took some years before it became popular too.

+1 ... Too many .243's already in place. And more than adequate for 99% of big game killed east of the Mississippi.

I have a 243 and 2 243AI’s, 2 7-08AI’s, a 250AI and 2 6mmBR’s. That kind of covers the 6-7mm short action range for me. I don’t have a burning desire to add a 6.5CM to the mix. Great cartridge, sure. But I’m not really missing it......

Come on guys. Leave my 7mm-08 alone.

Thats what is happening....

Our 7mm08s are fading away from my survey of ammo prices and availability.

Oh I don't know....I just bought a 7-08 barrel for my Kimber Montana.....so I'll have one in 308 and 7-08 Montanas and selling my 6.5 Barrett Fieldcraft.......I'm regressing I guess?

That's call backsliding. Repent at the Church of the Creed......dead animals and production of cloverleaf groups (5 leaf clovers preferred) are considered acceptable penance.

Just curious - why are you selling the Fieldcraft?

Heathen!

Truth is, I think the Montana stock was better executed.

I believe, except those rifle nuts among us that handload, that within the general hunting population the Creedmoor will wipe the floor with the 7-08.

I did a little factory ammo counting at our LGS... it has 9 skews of 7-08, and 16 of 6.5 Creed... and the 7-08 had a 30 year head start.

So for those that have shot both, what is the recoil difference.

I’ve owned a 7-08 and I own a 6.5 Creed, I doubt anyone could tell which one was which if they were blindfolded. Neither of them has enough recoil to matter.

I remember way back when most people didn't think the 7-08 kicked all that much.

I don't think the 6.5 Creeedmoor was ever intended to knock the 7mm-08 off.

I think it was purpose built for moderate recoil and long range, and long range hunting took off.

The 6.5 Creed and the 7-08 do different things.

95% of the fun is shooting them all together and better understanding the differences.

I would have to agree with you, especially since I've been wrestling between the two calibers. I came to the realization last night, that I would be better served owning them both.

Very well said David.

Here's my observation on that. I had both a Tikka Superlite 7MM-08 in a Hunters Edge stock and also a 6.5 Creedmoor set up exactly the same - SL in a Hunters Edge. Also had the same scope and rings on both. In the Creed I was shooting the 143 grain Hornady ammo and 140's in the 08. IMHO the Creedmoor had a bit more recoil than the 7MM-08. Or maybe different would be a better description of the recoil - the Creedmoor was more "snappy" if that makes any sense??? I know snappy isn't really technical but I thought anyway that the actual recoil was a bit more in the Creedmoor - not a deal killer but you sure could tell the difference.

How so?

Unless you’re splitting some very fine academic hairs I think they’re essentially identical in any hunting application either is appropriate for...

I'm having a hard time finding Accubond ammo for my 708, 140gr seems out of stock everywhere.

Back before men used skin moisturize.

This. They're both great but the 6.5 CM is no doubt having an impact on the 7-08 and I'm sure has probably about put the nail in the coffin for the .260 in factory rifles.

Kinda puzzled on how different they are myself

And eye-bag cream.

Nope. My 7mm08 isn't going anywhere

I agree. Curious as well...

I have too many other rifles the better fill the lightweight niche for the application I need them for. I will be posting it for sale here in the next week.

I have a LH Ruger Hawkeye that keeps 5 in a three quarter inch group. Want another rifle because I love them so look at the Creed and the 708. Just bought a Christensen Mesa LH in 708. Why, I don't see any advantage of the 6.5 over the 7-08 which I love. Nuf said

Is it the threaded 18" model?

Frankly, I wouldn't miss either one if they were to disappear tomorrow.

My only experience with a 7-08 was in a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle. I shot 120, 130, and 140 grain bullets in it trying to find a good accurate hunting load. My full throttle 140 grain loads had a little more noticeable recoil than I would have thought it would have been, but nothing really objectionable.

Most of my 6.5 Creedmoor shooting has been done with a Howa, and some with a Remington 700. The Howa weighed at least a 1 1/2 or 2 pounds more than the Mountain Rifle, so there was no felt recoil when shooting it. I'd say it was about like shooting a 243. The Remington 700 in 6.5 weighs 8 1/2 pounds with scope, sling, and 4 rounds of ammo in the rifle. I've not noticed the recoil with it either.

I'd say with all things being equal, rifles of equal weight, the average shooter couldn't tell the difference between the two.

I can't tell a difference in recoil between the two. I guess if I was shooting hot loads with heavies in the 7-08, there may be some difference.

Right now, I shooting factory 120 NBT ammo in the 7-08. I put it together too late to work up loads.

BTW, the new NBT's are pretty hard compared to the one we shot 20 yrs. ago. Those tended to blow up with shallow penetration. The 120 NBT out of the 7-08 punched thru a WT chest, small entrance, 2" exit. Not a lot of damage, buck ran 50 yds and piled up. I guess it was enough damage to prove fatal, as he ended up in the skinning shed, subsequently the cooler.

Dead is dead.

I'm working on loads for the Creed, thinking about VLD's for quicker chest shot kills. I have 130 and 140 VLD Hunting, 135 Classic Hunter to try. The Creed shoots very tight groups with the 123 gr. Scenar over Varget. May go with that combo. Also have 136L and 139 Scenars to try. Scenars seem a bit harder than the Bergers. Both bullets have thin jackets, the Scenar alloy must be a bit harder.

DF

As long as the power of the 6.5 is enough for the game at hand, shouldn't the recoil comparison should be between bullets of like BC (rather than weight) at a given velocity?

Well, the 7mm bullet will be heavier than the 6.5mm, B.C's being equal. I guess that's the point you're making.

So, at the same or similar speed, the 7mm should kick a bit more than the 6.5mm..

DF

It will be more, but is it detectable, probably not.



I think the recoil comparison should be between the typical bullets that are being used in each. Most people don't use bullets heavier than 140's in the 7-08.

I don't, in fact like 120's.

But mathman does make a valid point concerning like kind comparables.

Hard to argue with mathman...

He's usually right...

DF

I’m gonna try the 150 LRAB in my 7mm08 and the 142 LRAB in my Swede. We’ll see how they perk with Big Game and R26....

I’d like to try the same. I think that 142 ABLR would be wicked in the Swede. Right now the Swedes bumping 2900 with the 140 ABs.

Let us know how it works.

Any one have thoughts on the Accubonds for deer(large deer) ?

I've tried 130 NAB's at the range, not on deer.

They should work well. Some say their terminal performance is not too unlike the NPT.

And in my 6.5CM they are more accurate than the Partition.

DF

Deer don’t like accubonds, neither do moose or elk for that matter. They are one of my favorite hunting bullets. The ABLR is an excellent performer.

Bwana 1,

Since 2005 have seen AccuBonds work very well on black bear, blesbok, caribou, eland, elk, feral pigs, grizzly bear, hartebeest, kudu, mule deer, pronghorns, springbok, warthogs, whitetails, wildebeest (both black and blue), zebra, one wolverine, and no doubt some other animals I've forgotten. But apparently they're still not a "proven" bullet.

Would love to see the "large deer" they wouldn't kill.

Thank you gentlemen, I just received 3 boxes each in 260 & 708....should be set

I would be very interested in your results. Am thinking along those same lines.

Currently my best Swede load is the Scenar 139 over a healthy dose of MRP. It's more finicky than my 6.5 Creed which will shoot about anything. That one really shines with the Scenar 123 and Varget.

DF

Or should it be compared with ideal bullets in both at max velocity? A ~0.8 BC in the 7-08 is about 150 fps slower than a 0.7 BC in the 6.5 Creed, in like barrel lengths. Recoil difference isn’t much.

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it make more sense to compare bullets of like SD?

129 and 142g Long range accubonds in the Creed and 47 are nothing short of awesome, easy to tune in my rifles also.

R#26 and fed 215 is awesome with the 142's in a custom Creed, fast and accurate!!!

TFF! laffin'

I can’t believe it ! ! I’m not the only one.

Jerry



I omitted a couple thots.... being PC.

I have 2 7mm-08s and am wanting another. They have been deer slayers for me. One is a 700MR with a McSwirly and 2.5-8x36 Leupold. The other is a GAP NT that is surgical. The cartridge simply works well on deer.

I have shot 6.5 CMs but dont own one yet. I would like one and will probably hunt with it but want it more for plinking at the range. I'm sure they kill deer just fine but I like the 7mm-08 and cant see where the 6.5 CM would unseat it as my top choice between the two. Hopefully both will live long and prosper.

My rem 700 mtn lam really likes the federal 150 grain load using speer hot core.

At least on the days the rem 700 wants to shoot right