Is this something to stay away from? I have my eye on a Win M70 Extreme Weather, in .308 but Winchester's website says it's a 1:12 twist. I' most likely be shooting 165gr bullets out of it. Is that enough to stabilize them? I thought generally .308/30-06 had a 10 twist.

The 1/12 twist should be fine up to a 180 grain flat base bullet at sea level, it will be marginal with a 180 boat tail though. I prefer the versatility of a 1/10 twist.

I tried 208 amax in my 1/12 308 at 4500' and it wasn't as accurate as it was with the 168 amax I suspect they were on the verge of being unstable. Montana Marine has had good luck with the 208 in his 1/12 and that is why I tried them.

No worries, mate. 1:12 will suffice nicely with the 165's.

My 1:12 m70 featherweight shoots the 168gmm really well. I wouldn’t sweat it.

You should have no worries at all.

Thanks guys.

So you have a question, about a twist rate, and will it stabilize certain bullet weights....

The manufacturer Winchester has customer service dept,

Bullet manufacturers have customer service depts...

Yet you choose to ask people on a web site, instead of going to the source...

AND YOU GIVE ME SCHITT, AND CALL ME THE DUMBASS?

ya wanna see the moron? look in the mirror while you brush your teeth...

there ya go!

Party on Garth.....

if i recall correctly the 1-12 was meant to be ideal for the 168 SMK and the 1-11.25 came along for the 175 SMK. makes for a fun story, at least

Well, tzone DID ask BEFORE going hunting/shooting with them.

I have shot 200 NABs out of my 20” 1:12 .308 before just to see. Sea level and 20 degrees. Didn’t key hole at all and actually grouped decent. 180 accubond sand 180 sciroccos,178 eldx all shoot great. You’ll be more than golden with 165s.

Excellent. Thank you.

So did I Mr Skane... 30 days before I went hunting with the bullet and the load.. I asked the manufacturer for any load data recommendation, and asked about the bullet performance parameters... but being a brand new product the customer service rep evidently have any supplied information... he was just shooting from the hip and referred to it being like a ballistic tip, and that it would open up at low impact speed....

which turned out to be wrong....hence the call to the manufacturer, when I got to within cell service
AFTER CALLING 4 DIFFERENT BUDDIES TO ARRANGE ASSISTANCE on recovering the deer at an early and safe opportunity....

I also tested the bullet for accuracy at ranges out to 300 yds, at my local range before deer season even opened.. but I guess no one does that, so they assumed I don't either...

I submit that to you with respect...

Tzone? Tommy boy can kiss my A*^.....

180 Accubonds would have my interest as do the 165's. What ranges are you shooting? What are you using for glass?

In a 308? What are you hunting?

A 1-12” twist in a 308 will stabilize flat base 200 grain jacketed bullets, at normal hunting velocities. I tried it in a Rem 700 Varmint Synthetic 308 Win. With 1-12” factory barrel and Speer 200 grain .308 bullets ( near max load of IMR 4350), with groups well under 1.5 moa.

Here’s a link from accuratereloading.com “medium bore” sub-forum. 308 Win shooters are reporting great accuracy with 220 grain jacketed bullets in 1-12” twist barrels ( with surprising velocity, 2350-2400 FPS).

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3221043/m/4971014542

Great rifle, and chambering. Get it and use it with confidence.

Deer. 99% of the time.

I had a Browning Abolt with 1:12 twist that did fine with 150-165. I really didn't need to try anything heavier. Currently I have a Bergara with 1:10 and it did not like the lighter bullets but likes likes 165-178s.

Thanks for the link.

I had an older one in .30-06 but it was a bit of a tank. I do like the newer, slimmer version enough be seriously considering it.

TZ,

308 is my primary rifle for deer and feral pigs.

Couple of suggestions fwiw.

The 130 Barnes TTSX is pleasant to shoot and performs wonderfully.

The 150 Partition wells well too if a lead bullet is preferred.

Varget and a F210 works well with both, as well the whole range from 135 - 185’s.

As others have posted 1:12” will work nicely, up to 185 Bergers in my experience.

Great deer hunting choice, enjoy.

My dad hunted two loads in a 20" SPS-T 700 with a 1-12" twist. One was the 130 TTSX at 2,950fps with TAC, the other was the 200gr Sierra BT Gameking at 2,600fps over RL17. Two very different loads, but both were very effective on deer.

I have a Winchester M70 Youth Ranger I won in a raffle that I restocked with a Ramline I had on hand. Tag on the rifle said it had a 1 in 12" twist. One of my favorite loads uses the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core at 2610 FPS. The load is consistently at .75" or slightly less if I'm having a good day at the range.

I'd purchased one of those one book/one caliber manuals for the .308 Win. and there was data for bullets up tp 220 gr. in weight. FWIW, later issues of the manual no longer have data for 220 gr. bullets. It seems that the highest velocity was reached using W760. The starting load was 42.0 gr. for 2177 FPS at 42,000 C.U.P. and the max load was 44.0 gr. for 2295 FPS at 46,900 C.U.P., interesting. Just for spits and grins I decided to play with the data and had some 220 Sierra RNs on hand, nothing better to do so why the hell not?

Way back when, it seems the 30-40 Krag was considered a better elk round than the 30-06; probably based on bullet construction of the day. Seems loads ran from 2000FPS to 2200 FPS depending I guess on the time frame the round was loaded.

Well, I loaded up a test series starting with 42.0 gr. and loaded three round with a .0.50 gr. increase for each of the next three rounds until the max mentioned above. The result? Three shots with an average velocity of 2320 FPS and a .375" group. Next trip to the range with a full 20 rounds loaded up I shot four 5 shot groups the smallest .80" and the larger 1.10". Seems to me that if the old 30-40 was so good on elk then the .308 at 2300 FPS with the same weight bullet should work just as good.

I'll probably never have to use that load as most of my elk hunting has been with shots somewhat farther out, most averaging right around 250 yards. Still, it was interesting to see just what a .308 would do with that heavy a bullet. I also believe I could tweak that speed up some as pressure signs were not there when I reached the book max. Not seeing a need I just moved one.
Paul B.

I'd stay with the 165 grain class or lighter. There is a poster here who has cleanly taken numerous elk with a 308 using 165 grain Accubonds, Ballistic Tips, Partitions, TTSXs, and Speer Hotcores.

Short answer: 1:12 is fine.

Long answer: 1:10 is a holdover from the 30-06, which fired a 220 grain bullet and was modified into the 30-06 by shortening the neck and swapping in a 150-grain bullet. 1903 Springfield rifles were modified for the newer cartridge by setting the barrel back slightly and recutting the chamber. 1:10 is great for bullets up to 220 grains but faster than necessary for lighter bullets. The 308 picked up the 1:10 twist because that's how most folks were making .30-caliber barrels in the 1950's.


Okie John

You can enter the relevant values into Berger's bullet stability calculator to get an idea of whether a particular combination has a good chance of working. A 1:12 twist is marginal for some commonly available .30 cal solid copper bullets under certain conditions.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

Dang right it will. A buddy has one that shoots REALLY good groups.

I have the EW in 308. Mine is consistently accurate with everything I've tried 150-180 gr. I've experimented just a little with 200's and didn't have a lot of luck. But I also have 308's with 11 and 10 twists that didn't shoot them either. I just haven't found the right load for 200's yet and don't expect to use them enough to justify the time and effort.

I have a R700 ADL VARMINT in 308Win that i cut back to 20". It shoots 180gr Hornady SST's very well.

Every once in a while, someone reminds me of why there is an "Ignore" function.

Well tommy boy gets schitt like that, for making posts like this...

All I know is you don’t want to use a Sierra Game Changer at go-kart velocities to gut shoot spike horn blacktails.


ridiculing and heckling another forum member....

calling him a liar, then crap like this... without any provocation to feel he needs to make an ass of himself..

he can dish it out but sure doesn't like to take it...

ya don't wanna read it then by all means put me on ignore...

PJ....

I recall someone posted an article quite a while ago on here, that some country in Africa used 308s, with the 220 grain RNs, to cull Rogue Elephants in their country via their Fish & Game people...

Brain shots, from a stopped vehicle or Truck...

had an acquaintence around town here years ago, all he had for a hunting rifle was a H & R Single shot break open in 30/30... he wanted to go bear hunting, but wanted the most thump he could get out of a 30/30 case....

I loaded up some 220 grain RN's, behind like 35 grains of W 748... MV was 2100 fps... it had a kick to it, but the brass never seemed to notice or care....

he was successful with those loads and that rifle for a couple of seasons...

lost track of him, when he moved a few towns away for a job....but he upgraded to a 308 H & R rifle,
and I got him trained on handloading... he sure liked those 220 grain RNs....so I bet he was loading them in that single shot 308 he picked up....

Poor lil Johnnie. Still crying. New thread....same drama. You did load that at go-kart velocities. You admitted it yourself. If you didn’t hit shootnthat deer it would have run 200+ yards.

I’m going to go shoot and hunt for the weekend. You stay in and keep spreading your “knowledge.”

No Tommy Boy.. Still Laughing....particularly at you.....

Good luck hunting this weekend... hope you come home with a big old Goose Egg....

Remember, deer opener is happening yet....

and don't trip and shoot yourself in the nuts.....but then you have no balls to begin with.. so guess it wouldn't matter much anyway...


and not having your facts straight per usual... deer didn't RUN 200 yds, it stumbled 200 yards down a ravine...

but then you knew that, you were just attempting to be your usual horse's ass self anyway....

you keep spreading your buttcheeks, hoping someone will notice....