I have been on the Campfire long enough now to appreciate the depth and breadth of the collective knowledge contained here so I thought I’d put this up for discussion. I apologize if this topic is ridiculously common but I’m never shy. 😁

What would you do if you were building a 35 Whelen on a pre 64 30-06....from top to bottom but NOT with an unlimited budget.

I “inherited” a 1953 Winchester Model 70 30-06 24” bbl. with a Lyman All American 4x that’s in very good condition EXCEPT the rifle was forgotten about and left buried in a Wells Cargo trailer where, because of our moist climate, it started to rust and the stock was ever so slightly warped. The throat has the most rust and pitting but the rest of the bore is very good. The stock is in beautiful shape and since oiling it with Snake Oil and bringing it inside the house the warp is all but gone. The warp was only perceptible by looking at the barrel channel and with a swipe or 2 or the barrel channel tool and some proper bedding would be perfectly fine BUT I will be putting a synthetic stock on it.

My rough plan is to rebore (JES...?) to 35 Whelen, cut and crown at 21”, replace iron sight on rear dovetail of the sight “ring” bulge and install front site, Cerakote (?), synthetic stock I like the McMillan “McWoody” but I don’t like the price, mount a 1 piece scope rail and my primary scope along with a backup scope in the same type of rings as the primary scope sighted and torqued properly.
I like the Williams Ghostfire style rear peep and firesight style front site.

The 24” bbl is.600 at the muzzle and .630 at 21”. I’ve never rebored a rifle but don’t want to spend a fortune and I want to preserve the “lines” of the pre-64. I think I’d ultimately like a darker type stainless looking cerakote in a dark McWoody would be ideal. What stock design would be a good fit by keeping the “lines” of the old stock but not out of place on a 20 or 21” barrel?

What would you guys do if you were doing what I’m doing?

I want a shorter, faster handling, rugged rifle that I’ll likely use down here for Elk but mostly up in Alaska. Once we get the cabin built up at our place it’ll be left up there. I have always wanted a place in Alaska and a .35 Whelen. 😁

I’m sure I’ll have a bunch of questions as I go along but I want to thank you all in advance for your thoughts.

I did mine on a Remington, went sporter contour, @ 22" , went with a 1-12" hart, balances nicely. I think 22" is perfect.

Mcwoody would be cool, but I'd opt for a new snout verse re bore..

Me too. Rebarrel now and restock later.

Judman, Thanks for your suggestions. It’s roughly $250 for rebore and if I don’t like it I can always go the new barrel route. I’m not looking for a long range shooter or hyper velocity speed. I’ve been a Barnes fan for 30 years and I don’t see that changing with this rifle, 225TSX at ???? (I’d be happy if I could get an honest 2700fps from a 20 or 21” barrel. I want a handy, reliable, compact thumper that won’t be obtrusive going from boat to skiff to alder thicket. I’m looking for a rifle that I handle and shoot well and that inside of 200 yards is instinctively easy.....This rifle will cover 99.9% of the shots I’ve taken and if I wanna reach out there I have tools for that as well.

This rifle fills the gap between the 45-70 and .338WM for the big stuff.

I’ve heard nothing but good from guys that have rebored their rifles. Many guys said it shot better after the rebore than it ever had prior.

Curious as to why you wouldn’t rebore?

I do appreciate all the input. 👍

Oh you'll love the chambering.. I've heard good things about jes too, I'd just go New. It'll cover over 95% of your killin needs.

Re-bore wouldn’t bother me. I’d call JES though and see what he thinks about old Winchester steel.

Re barrel or rebore, I’d cut at 22” , bbl band, banded front sight, and mount a peep. Black nitride the works and put in a Echols legend in edge fill.

I’d also go 9.3x62 but don’t think it’d make a lick of difference.

I think it's a great idea. JES has a great reputation and fast turn around rate. Good prices too. Why Not?

That was my thinking anyway. I’m not building a custom long range rig or a one rifle for everything setup merely salvaging a nice old rifle with a crusty throat. It’s a niche thing and a short handy medium range—medium bore bolt gun fills that niche.

Thanks. 👍

I ain’t using no bourgeois, commie, metric caliber for crying out loud.......I’d ruin the old Winchester’ heart. 😁

JES has done four rebore jobs for me thus far. He does great work and will surely get more business from me. Since you want the look of stainless, why not do hard chrome instead? It's a much tougher finish than ceracoat.

I like your barrel chop idea. Jesse will cut the barrel to your preferred length for $25 or so extra. Then, it's easy to fit, rust blue, and install a NECG rear sight. McMillan has some good patterns for use of both scopes and open sights. Both Winlite models for example. My 9.3x62 is set up similar to what you're after, albeit with a 20.5" barrel. I use it with both the scope in talleys and with a talley peep. Here are some victims courtesy of the peep sight.

Thank you pabucktail. I’ll definitely look into hard chrome but I don’t want it shiny, when I think chrome my wee brain thinks of the Jennings style of chrome plating. 😂

No, no, it's a nice matte and tough....



Courtesy of Mahovsky's metalife in Pennsylvania.

I had Randall Redman rebore a 1953 vintage M/70 for me more than 25 yrs. ago, I left everything else just the way it left Winchester. It shoots everything I feed it extremely well, for whitetails I have been using 225 gr. Sierra Game Kings and Noslers with IMR 4064 but have recently switched to 200 gr. Hornady RN over IMR 3031 which gives outstanding accuracy and great performance on game. In the off season I shoot lots of cast bullets and jacketed pistol bullets over a charge of 15 gr. Unique.

I’ve had a few done by JES and he’s done excellent work for me. His rifling has needed a bit of polishing of the bore but not a big deal though. They have all shot really well. I’ve always wanted to do the same thing to a P64 myself. I just haven’t found the right one yet.

That hard chrome looks darned good.

Are you okay with the sight bulge on the factory barrels? If so, carry on. What twist were you going with?
I personally would keep the barrel at 22" and would possibly have some recontouring done if I wanted to drop a bit of weight or adjust balance of the rifle. (something like a douglas contour with some weight taken off the breech end of the barrel). One thing you don't mention is the weight of the rifle.
If you are okay with the shape/look of it I'd also consider a stock from Mark Bansner, if you are willing to do some of the finishing yourself to keep costs down. From personal experience they handle recoil very nicely. I would also consider a stock from Brown Precision. If you email Mcmillan they will tell you which of their stocks they inlet for the pre 64 action (more than you probably realize), likely they have something you would like.
I like your project, it will certainly be a handy rifle to have for your intended purpose.

That’s probably the exact blueprint I’d use myself.

From more than 25 yrs. experience with a rebore I can tell you there's nothing wrong with old Winchester steel. You're getting a new bore, what could be wrong?

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! I like the matte hard chrome and will definitely consider that over Cerakote for durability.

I’m not stuck on a specific weight for this build since I have lightweight mountain rifles but I want this to be a handy, easy to carry rifle, just not necessarily an ultralight rifle. Thanks again guys. 👍

Another plus is the hard chroming is significantly cheaper. Last week I got my latest rifle back from chroming. It was $243.00 including shipping to AK.

Im glad you werent in Lyle recently. You would have snagged that pre 64 fwt 30-06 for $475.00.. i had to buy it. That would have been a good candidate for a re-bore.

Who do you guys recommend for the hard chrome treatment?

This guy:

http://www.mahovskysmetalife.com/

That’s exactly what I’d like for the project.

you might want to leave the barrel length alone at first till you see how the rifle balances out


the 35 hole will reduce the barrel weight quite a bit and you may find the shorter barrel muzzle light

Tag

I'm coming into this late but there's nothing wrong with a rebore. Cliff LaBounty rebored my 1941 model 70 to 35 Whelen and with any 250 grain bullet it thinks it's a varmint rifle. I also had JES rebore a Sedgley Springfield to 375 Whelen. He did a great job, the gun was very accurate, and it was ten days from my door back to my door. In Alaska. My late friend and hunting buddy had him do several rebores over the years and has been well pleased with every one.

I left my 35 Whelen 24 inches and have hunted some pretty tight cover with it. I never felt the longer barrel hampered me in heavy cover.

A note concerning re-boring that I'll offer is that if you care about the aesthetics of your rifle you will want to handle the re-stamping of the new caliber yourself. Some reborers make quite a mess when it comes to re-marking, XXXXing out the old caliber and hand stamping the new. I milled a shallow groove which removed the original caliber marking and re-stamped it myself. Other options would be to have it laser marked or have your engraver handle the task.

A lot of great info and suggestions and I thank you all for your input.

PAbucktail....thanks for the recommendation, I’ll be going the hard chrome route. I have been reading about Cerakote not being terribly durable and hard chrome being a great option so that’s the way I’ll be going. 👍

Mart, I appreciate your advice. I like carbine style rifles and with the Whelen I’m not gunning for velocity since it’ll be used for close in work and kept to under 300 yards. I also think I’ll work up an accurate 225gr TSX load and use that for everything. Going from boat to skiff to beach to truck, etc a compact rifle has been a bit more convenient in my experience. Very few of my rifles are 24” now that I think about it, in fact only one .308, a Model 70 in 7mm mag and my Sako .222 Rem Mag have 24” barrels. I’ll proceed slowly and with a small measure (the most I can muster 😁) of common sense before making permanent modifications to the rifle but I’m stubborn and knowing me I doubt that it’ll stay at 24”.

Gunwizzard, Thanks for your input. I was actually thinking about the re-stamping thing last night and how to do it so it didn’t look like crap. I think either milling the current stamp or carefully draw filing it would work. I’ll talk to JES and see what they recommend. I know I don’t want XXXX to indicate the change in caliber since that looks lazy and crappy.

SDgunslinger, I’ll be interested in how much weight is shaved by making the 30 caliber hole a 35 caliber hole. Like I was telling mart, I’m not real big on 24” barrel rifles except on the magnums so I’m pretty set on cutting it back to around 22” but since I’m an oddball I’m thinking that I’ll cut to 21.5”.

Thanks again to all of you for your suggestions.....keep them coming. 👍

If I figured it right it's a little over 2 1/2 ounces.

Interesting.....thanks. Having followed your posts on reloading I’d be willing to bet that you’re exactly correct. 😁. Your help, advice and opinions are always appreciated. You are selfless with your input and you’re an asset to this site. Thanks

I'd go a new tube first as well over a rebore. My buddy Justahunter had issues with a JES rebore .35 Whelen. I encourage you to talk with him, I'm not blaming anyone here but the situation probably had my buddies and JES's blood pressure elevated to say the least.

Is that the guy who's reloads blew a barrel? Maybe the problem was his fault, maybe it was Jesse's, but this is the internet after all........perhaps the best idea is to examine the general consensus. What's the ratio of JES satisfied to unsatisfied customers? I'd wager it's much better than what Kimber or some other makers have going for themselves. He's done four guns for me, and another five for friends. All have been stellar.

I’m willing to take the chance, if I don’t like it I’m not out much and can go with a new barrel. I’ve heard nothing but good things about JES and disregard the occasional flyer. 😉

Justahunter's rifle blew apart shooting factory ammunition that JES told him to use, because JES insisted he didn't know how to recognize pressure signs or measure a bore diameter. The fact was Justahunter's bore was undersized, and JES refused to think he might of made a mistake. I don't mind that JES made a mistake, I do feel he handled it very poorly and he never made an attempt to make it right.

I’ve had JES rebore a couple. I’ve had two that were a bit of a pain. My 35 Newton was rechambered/rebored from an M70 338 Win. When I first started shooting it, it was leaving rings around the case and extraction was very poor since the case was sticking so heavily. I sent it back and he needed to cut a thread and ream it all the way through. Originally he didn’t get quite enough of the chamber leaving it pretty rough. After that it was good and has shot well.

2nd was an old P64 that started out as a 300 H&H and was rechambered to 300 Wby long before I owned it. I got the rifle dirt cheap and liked the 300 Wby so I tried shooting it some. I tried every danged accuracy load under the sun and nothing would begin to shoot for beans. The rifle being very clean and such, I decided to have it rebored to 375 Wby.

Well, two weeks later it came back to me with a note that he could make it a 375 Wby and had to rechamber it to a 375 Improved. I thought, no big deal, thinking it was an Ackley... nope, Redding 375 Ackley dies didn’t work for squat but I was able to use them to size the neck to get some loads through it.



That was the first load I put on paper with it after shooting 20 rounds of handloads to get FF cases and to smooth it out a bit in order to apply DBC to the Bore. I was very happy with the accuracy of it right outta the gates. I bought a box of 300 grain Partitions from Federal and those suckers were even better.

So, I got rid of the dies I had and sent away for Whidden’s using 3 pieces of my fired brass. So it actually became quite a lot more expensive than I’d hoped but the rifle still shoots well.

I wanted to keep the factory barrel and look so a rebore was the easy way with the 375 and being a 1-10 twist it really hammers the 250 Barnes TTSX.



I carried it for elk but didn’t have any luck carrying then, but decided to try my luck with deer... it worked fine there too...



So I’d still use JES and realize it might not pan out but it’s usually an inexpensive way to try out a cartridge before investing into heavily with a Smith work.

put a new S.S. barrel on the rifle,35 Whelen is a great choice,Creole coat all the outside medal including barrel ,you only need a 22 inch barrel with a 35 caliber bore. good luck,Pete53

Beretzs, Nice pictures. 👍

I spoke with JES and I’ve gotta say that right off the bat he’s impressing me. He’s excellent with communication and returning phone calls. I’m going to go the re-bore route and have him cut and crown at 21.5” just to be different I’m also going to go with the hard chrome finish since I’m suspect of Cerakote in the wet-saltwater and rainforest environment along with the use it’s likely to receive 😁. You can’t beat the re-bore/chamber along with the cut and crown for $275 including return shipping. He said his turnaround is about a week from when he gets it which is a very quick turnaround for damn near anything in the gun world. 😁. I’m not in any hurry anyway but it’s the suspense of seeing what your “new” rifle looks like that affects those of us inflicted with gunitis. I’ll ship it out in a couple weeks.

I just cleaned out the barrel channel and will glass bed the barreled action into the original stock so that the barrel is free-floated. I put another coat of oil on the stock and sure do think it’s a nice, old, classic stock. It’ll wear that until I get a McMillan McWoody but in the mean time I’ll work on scopes and load. I think that for my intended purpose a 225TSX is what I’m shooting for as an all around big critter stopper. I’d like to get 2700fps and would be delighted with anything faster. I’m not recoil shy and shoot magnums as well as anything.

Sounds like a logical way to proceed. Going to be a nice package when you are done. Now you have me thinking!

I guess all there for us to do now is stand by for pictures. Sounds like a good set up! As far as the hard chroming goes, my wait time was about 6 weeks for the rifles he's done for me.

6 weeks is doable.....at least I think the suspense won’t kill me. 😁

I will be learning (if I’m still capable of such) to post pictures real soon and this thread will be a good one to do so.

Thanks again to all you for your advice and wisdom. I was going to go the Cerakote route but because of your suggestions I’m going to try the hard chrome. I’ll continue to update as things get done. 👍

I had that concern with my JES Rebore. I told him to not stamp out the original .30-06 markings as I would have it stamped by my local smith. As requested, he didn't mark out the original .30-06 but, unfortunately, he still stamped "35 WLN" above the .30-06 stamp. I wasn't happy when I saw that but figure it was a break down in communication so was at least 50% my fault. I have plans to get both markings milled out but haven't done anything with it.

Overall, I am happy with the rebore as I really liked the factory contour on my Mark II Ruger and it handles great cut at 20". Sight acquistion is quick with my NECG ghost ring and Williams fiberoptic front (remington front ramp). It probably would make sense to have it lapped as mine fouled a bit more than I like but I built it for an open sighted close range deal so not too worried as long as it shoots minute of black bear out to 150 or so, which it does. I may actually scope it and use it for elk this year, will be interesting to see what kind of accuracy I can get out of it with glass on top. My 20" barrel launches the 225 TSX at 2600 +/- and the 225 Sierra at 2630 +/-. I doubt the extra 1.5" on your build will gain you much with a .35 caliber bore but it may get you a little closer to 2700.

Very nice!

Nice rifle Medriver! I’ll be replacing the front site with either a Williams or Truglo 3/8 dovetail fiber optic insert. I’ll remove the front site hood since it’ll wind up being a catch all for mud, snow, vegetation etc. I’ll probably keep the flip up Marbles rear site since open sites will be used for backup only. I’ll be looking for a 1-4...1-6 power scope with illuminated reticle and use the old (but in beautiful shape) Lyman All American 4X as a backup scope. It’ll wear the same rings as the primary scope and it’ll be sighted in appropriately so, in theory, I can take off the primary scope if something happens to it and install the backup scope to the one piece rail and torque it down to the right spec. I should be able to get a repeatable zero even switching scopes. I will check and recheck that my theory proves out before counting on it in real life but I’ve done it several times before on other rifles so I’m hopeful that this one won’t be any different.

As far as the crossing out the old caliber and re-stamping it goes I’ll file and polish out the 30-06 and use that space for the new stamp so it’s not a bunch of gobbledygook on the barrel.

What are you guys using to polish the newly cut barrel? Tubbs or similar style grit impregnated bullets? Is there anywhere that specializes in polishing bores? If a little extra fouling is what I should expect then I’ll be a little more fastidious in my cleaning regimen. If the Tubbs system works well and you guys recommend it then I’ll try that. I helped a buddy polish the bore of his Sendero with the Tubbs system but I thought he was being anal for doing so. 😁......now I’ll be the anal retentive one.

PS....I’m not too caught up on numbers so 2700fps with a 225TSX is merely a general range for me to shoot for. I’m far more concerned about accuracy, velocity comes second.

Thanks beretzs, it hasn't killed much yet, a mulie doe and a couple mountain lions, but it has been a joy to pack and fun to shoot.

GREAT photo Medriver!

The smile on that young man’s face is priceless. 👍

Thanks, he called that in for me and is a better looking subject

The 225 SGK entered the point of the shoulder and I found it under the hide in front of the right hip. Impact velocity was around 2465 +/-. Decent retention (77%) and magazine ad pretty.

I use the same 225 Sierra at 2675 with H4895 for an easy shooting, but darned deadly deer load in my 7600 Whelen. I took a decent sized WT doe last fall around 175 yards and it literally went from front leg to mid ribs and seeing that deer run I’d thought I’d missed till I saw the blood. My God do the .358’s let them bleed.

So, what I did to my 375 was I started out with JB’s and kroil, till it was as clean and I could make it. Shot 5 rounds and cleaned it right back down with JBs and Kroil again. Did that for 20-25 rounds. After the last ones I cleaned it right back to steel, applied Dyna Bore Coat and shot it in. It’ll still foul a tiny bit but not enough to bother me or affect accuracy for at least 20 rounds or so (haven’t shot it more than that yet). Couple of soaked patches and it comes out clean. I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

I like the Tubbs Bullets but using the full set in my 338 lengthened the throat a bit. I’d do it again, since the results were worth it, but it’s something to be aware of.

Thanks for your advice Beretzs, I’ll likely do it the way you do. That’s how I used to “break in” rifles until I didn’t think I was making any appreciable difference but in this case I think it’s cheap (and fun) insurance and it’s something I can do off my back deck. Do you think full power loads are necessary or any load that gets a jacketed bullet down range is fine?

I’ve heard about throat erosion using the abrasive bullet technique but your reminder is enough to steer me away unless absolutely needed.

Thanks for your help Sir!

I'd probably use whatever load can get the bullet down the bore. The abrasive coated bullets may be a bit more gentle if you use a smaller routine. I used all 50 of them that came in the pack, but I could have probably done just fine using 1/2 of them..