Opinions please... - 24hourcampfire

I shot and chronoed my Dad's(my liberated) .30-30 today...AVG Velocity 2,633fps SD 6...accuracy good at 50 yds...
 
 Now here is the problem..I am using 150gr Hornady RN with a max charge according to the Lyman #47, of 39.0grs of H-335...Hodgdon lists 33.0grs as max...even with no extraction problems. primers that are still very round, etc...I am beating the Lyman manual velocities by 160fps and they used a 26" barreled universal receiver!!
 
 I have no visible indication of high pressure, but the higher than expected velocity kinda worried me..What do y'all think...have I got a fast barrel, tighter chamber, fast lot of powder????
 
 P.S. I only shot 50 yds because I am using a Williams peep site and this will be used as a walkaround rifle/deep woods gun..
 
 Mike

Maybe it likes H-335. If it is a fast barrel it should shoot other powders and bullets fast too.
 
 I checked the Hornady Manual. Max load listed for the 150 gr RN is 35.0 gr. I would say your load might be a touch on the warm side.
 
 Don't let the lack of visible evidence, or a sticky action fool you. You could be way over acceptable pressure limits and not know it. 4 gr. over max is a lot for a 30-30 case.
 
 Shoot a rifle/load combination you are familiar with. See if it chronos as it should. This is to see if the chronograph is functioning properly. If it is okay, I for one think you are pushing things a bit. Just for reference, the 30-40 Krag shows a max velocity of 2500fps. with the 150gr. bullet(Hornady Manual). Check out the case drawings. The 30-30 is quite a bit smaller. Another indication you are over doing things.

Mike. I best data I have says you are pushing that bullet 200-400 fps. faster than you should be pushing it with any powder currently availiable.
 In other words, it's too hot-period.
 Factory ammo rarely reaches 2400 fps. 2300 fps. and maybe some change is the best it ever does.
 If you are using a lever action gun, either a Winchester, or a Marlin, I'd say find another powder, or load, that is where it should be. Heck, if that powder shoots well there, it will probably shoot well at 2200-2300 fps. as well.
 Be carefull, and good luck. E

That's kind of what i was thinking too. A buddy shot s few shots over with the .270WSM and they were consistant with the last outing so I don't doubt the numbers any..
 
 Lyman's #47 lists 39.0grs with only 35,800 c.u.p. so that is what I worked up to last year.
 
 I may deprime/resize some of the brass and see how the primer pockets are also......
 
 Thanks for the input guys!
 
 Mike

Might be a good idea to shoot it over another chrony, too. Naaah!!! That would make that WSM real slow [Linked Image]

badger.

Ha,ha...

I am still half a grain under max for uncoated bullets so will probably work on up once I have fired all of the first batch through the rifle to iron the wrinkles out and get all the angles angular instead of rounded..
 
 I expect to get just under 3,400fps with 130gr bullets..
 
 If I ever see any MAGPRO powder I may get some to try because I think that's what winchester uses and they had some stout 150gr loads to say the least [Linked Image]

Adrian shot 3-shots through the screens with the WSM that averaged 3,131 fps SD of 6
 
 Mike

ROTR,
 
 The biggest concern I would have with what you are doing is having a case separate. .30-30 brass is not among the strongest and I don't know what it would be like to be the shooter when a case goes, but the Winchester Model 94 is a pretty loose action and I can imagine hot gas, powder, and brass "flakes" going in every direction.
 
 Since you are only going to be shooting at short ranges, a couple of hundred FPS slower isn't going to make a practical difference. Besides, you only get one pair of eyes and they must last you for your entire life, if you want to continue to shoot.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Bearrr264

Looks like you got a dang nice .308 Winchester there. Shoot and enjoy. Flinch

It is a Marlin Model 336..I agree bear, but I worked these loads up before I had a chronograph in accordance with the Lyman #47 manual and I am only 160 fps over their listed velocity so I am not convinced I am over pressure...I have a 1" Starrett Micrometer(courtesy of my boss) coming back from maintenance and calibration when I get it I'll measure case heads..I'll probably checkout some primer pockets tonight I think I may just have a fast barrel/lot of powder...If I knew somebody with a strain gauge I would love to stick it on the blasted thing....
 
 I still have 48 of the 60 I loaded with this load so unless I see something strange I'll continue to keep shooting them.
 
 Mike

The brass don't lie. I would definitely measure case length. If she's running hot,the cases will stretch! If the primer pockets stay tight and the case ain't growing then I would enjoy your new 308. [Linked Image]

I resized/deprimed four cases and measured OAL, they were 2.048" the max case length is 2.039" prior to being resized/deprimed they averaged 2.040"
 
 I didn't trim these things before loading them, and didn't write down what they started out as...They were under max case length and I wasn't expecting benchrest groups out of the rifle so I didn't trim them to a uniform length..looks like I'll get to this next time around...
 
 I checked all four cases with a bent paper clip as well as some that had not been resized yet for any signs of casehead seperation and felt nothing at all...
 
 I will wait and see what the Micrometer shows, but after reading Doc Howell's opinion of this method of pressure judging I don't put a lot of faith in it..
 
 Next time around I'll work up with the chrony to about 2,300fps and call it a done deal..maybe the brass won't grow then..I don't like trimming a whole lot [Linked Image]

Mike

ROTR,
 
 My rough calculations show that the flight time difference between 2600 FPS and 2300 FPS is 15/1000 of a second (0.015) per 100 yards. It is your call as to the safety margin that you are willing to accept as you "push the envelope" of the .30-30's intended(?) performance parameters, but you may want to consider is the gain is worth the risk.
 
 One thing that you might want to consider is to resize .307 Winchester brass to .30-30 configurations and take advantage of the stronger brass. Of course, you would lose some case capacity and would need to start your loading program over, but you would have the real benefit of a significantly stronger case.
 
 Trust me, you don't want to be behind the trigger of any rifle when a case separates, but some handle the escaping gas better than others. I don't know where the Marlin Model 336 would fit on the spectrum of actions in the area of ability to handle escaping gas, but I know that I don't want to be there when it happens. Once was enough for me!
 
 Please be careful!
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Bearrr264

Thanks bear...and I am heeding all advice...I may go this afternoon and re-chrony everything to make absolutely sure of things. Then I may be investing in a bullet puller.
 
 I am not one to intentionally hot rod a cartridge and to be honest would have never known what these things were doing without the chrony info...
 
 Mike

IMO the Chronograph is THE most important handloading tool. I believe the Barnes #1 says something to the effect that,"There's no such thing as a free lunch",Makes sense to me.

Make sure your chronograph screens are EXACTLY as far apart as they're supposed to be. A bullet crosses 3.99 feet faster than it crosses 4.00 feet, and if your chronograph thinks its screens are 4.00 feet apart, it reports a higher velocity than you're really getting.

Thanks Ken, I'm using a Shooting Chrony so the screens plug into fixed points. I try to make sure I am exactly squared up so it passes thru perpindicularly too if at all possible.
 
 Pop up thunderstorm prevented me from shooting today, will try again Thu.
 
 Mike

Can anybody recommend a good bullet puller??
 
 I chronoed 3-rounds today to make sure of things and got some scary velocities...I will be drafting a letter to Lyman also, not to criticize, but to report my findings, in my rifle, with their data..
 
 Three shots went 2712, 2710, 2710 [Linked Image]

YIPES!!!
 
 Mike

That's pretty decent velocities for factory ammo in 308 Winchester. You might be a smidge on the warm side of pressures... [Linked Image]

Oh yeah!!
 
 I'm going to pull the remaining loaded rounds and start over...I'm also going to toss the brass for the ones already fired up until this point with the hot load..Not worth the risk of a seperation later and brass is cheap when safety is involved..
 
 Mike

Good Call!!
 
 I like the way ROTR thinks.
 
 George

Thanks Avagadro..
 
 Has anybody used this puller:
 http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin...&item=FBP1010&type=store
 
 Mike