I have the opportunity to get a lightweight mountain rifle in 280AI or 30-06 for a smoking deal. While I don't need either for whitetail hunting in my area, as I have a 6.5CM in a Barrett Fieldcraft and a Q Fix rifle in 308 and 6.5CM they are such good deals I can't pass them up, unfortunately I can't get both. My question is which would you recommend? I don't do any North American big game hunts, but sometime in the next couple years I'm probably going to go on a guided elk, black bear, sheep, whatever I can come up with.
Pros for 30-06: Lots of ammo selections, easy to get practically anywhere, less expensive, heavier bullet selections
Cons: Slightly more recoil, not as flat shooting
Pros for 280 AI: flatter shooting, slightly softer recoil
Cons: expensive ammo, less ammo selection, not as readily available
The pros/cons list pushes me towards 30-06 but I personally feel the 280 would be easier for me to shoot. The softer shooting in a 5LB rifle really appeals to me. Is there something I'm missing? Is there anything in North America I could shoot with a 30-06 that wouldn't be recommended in 280AI?
^x2.
If you looking at the Kimber Hunter, I have one in 280 Ackley and its perfect. Shoots excellent, recoil is very manageable. I have not shot a Kimber in 30-06, but had a Remington 700 mountain rifle in 30-06 and felt that it recoiled significantly more than the 280 Ackley in the Kimber Hunter.
Sounds like a BOT question?
Sounds like a BOT question?
Thanks for your excellent advice.
I’d rather not say at the moment, there’s some things involved that’s not my place to say . I was really looking more for real world experience with 280AI. 30-06 has been around so long that there plenty of experience/info that I can find out about.
I’d rather not say at the moment, there’s some things involved that’s not my place to say . I was really looking more for real world experience with 280AI. 30-06 has been around so long that there plenty of experience/info that I can find out about.
It colors the decision.
And if it is a Fieldcraft, there may be reasons you would want to choose the ‘06.
Why? Is there something wrong with them?
Why? Is there something wrong with them?
I’d rather not say at the moment; there’s some issues involved that’s not my place to say.
Why? Is there something wrong with them?
I’d rather not say at the moment; there’s some issues involved that’s not my place to say.
Is this how you racked up 3000+ posts?
Why? Is there something wrong with them?
I’d rather not say at the moment; there’s some issues involved that’s not my place to say.
LMAO!!.......Hb
Why? Is there something wrong with them?
I’d rather not say at the moment; there’s some issues involved that’s not my place to say.
Is this how you racked up 3000+ posts?
No; most were buying [bleep] I don’t need in the classifieds.
I sent you a PM.
Why? Is there something wrong with them?
I’d rather not say at the moment; there’s some issues involved that’s not my place to say.
Is this how you racked up 3000+ posts?
No; most were buying [bleep] I don’t need in the classifieds.
I sent you a PM.
Damn, Joe. I would have just told him to [bleep] off.
280AI....depending on the platform.....and whether you reload or not. Although the Hornady Precision Hunter ammo is excellent.
I have both. I can tell you a lightweight 280 AI shooting full power 160/175 gr loads is no cupcake. I've had both in a Kimber MT and the 30-06 recoiled more than the 280 in equal rate rifles but not by much. My current Kimber 280 AI does 3000 with a 160 and weighs 7lb 1 oz. It's not a cupcake to shoot. It's very tolerable but will definitely give you a magnum eyebrow if you crawl the stock or shoot from a weird position.
I have both and when I head west it's usually with the 280 AI, although mine is a 8lbs. semi custom pre 64 M70 job, I feel Barnes 145 LRX at 3050 is good medicine for the game I'm after. Not that the old 06' wouldn't work, but I've put that 280 AI in a a handle I rather like.
If you reload .280 if not .30-06
If you reload .280 if not .30-06
This.
I have owned Kimber Subalpine rifles chambered in both of these cartridges and recoil is very minimal no matter bullet weight......Hb
If you reload .280 if not .30-06
I reload 6.5CM and 308 mostly and occasionally some 5.56 and 300blkout but that's a rare occasion. So I'm not opposed to.
I could easily make the argument that I'm going to shoot it so little that it wouldn't kill me to load a few rounds a year. I could also make the argument that I'm going to shoot it so little i could go buy premium 30-06.
The bigger question I have is 280AI suitable for all the things mentioned initially?
If you reload .280 if not .30-06
This.
X3
If you reload .280 if not .30-06
I reload 6.5CM and 308 mostly and occasionally some 5.56 and 300blkout but that's a rare occasion. So I'm not opposed to.
I could easily make the argument that I'm going to shoot it so little that it wouldn't kill me to load a few rounds a year. I could also make the argument that I'm going to shoot it so little i could go buy premium 30-06.
The bigger question I have is 280AI suitable for all the things mentioned initially?
A good bullet in the right spot is more important than its diameter and the case it came out of.
The rest is what you feel like saying when bubba asks “whatcha shootin?”
your sweating apples vs apples, these cartridges perform so similarly its not worth the bother, if you want the "cool" cartridge get the Ai if you want the practical cartridge get the 06' ...Its not that hard 👍......Good luck ....Hb
+2 or 3 for "Flip a coin"...
The 280ai is much more effective when trying to act cool around your buddies. I’ve had both, the 30-06 just plain works and brass is easy to find.
Well the 06 has killed a few animals as well as humans. 280AI is similar to 7mm Rem Mag, long considered the best long range belted magnum cartridge in the field. Coincidentally it was developed to obtain the same energy down range as an 06 with better long range capability. Neither will let you down if you do your part. FWIW the 06 is probably a better cartridge if you are comparing a 22 inch barreled action.
I moved to 280AI, 180 grain bullets are about the most kick I want to stand, and they have better drop given the profile.
Lot's of nits you can pick but in the end if you aren't shooting past 500 there's not enough difference to mess with.
If you're considering recoil as a deciding factor between the two, you're probably better off going with something that has a smaller case capacity.
Some asked about the rifle earlier. The rifle, mag box length, and chamber/throat can play a part in the decision if you consider them. "Rough" (very rough) general rule, the shorter the mag box, the more favor to a bigger diameter bullet (on the same case).
your sweating apples vs apples, these cartridges perform so similarly its not worth the bother, if you want the "cool" cartridge get the Ai if you want the practical cartridge get the 06' ...Its not that hard 👍......Good luck ....Hb
30-06 = Budweiser
280 AI = Imperial Nutlicker Manbun Porter
Either will work just fine if the operator can put in the right place!
![[Linked Image from i38.photobucket.com]](https://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/glenn1221/latestgunstuff/KC9A6976.1_zpso4vcup6i.jpg)
Top: Custom Sako AV, 280 AI, 140 gr. Accubond
Bottom: Sako 85 Bavarian Carbine, 30-06 Springfield, 168 Gr. TTSX
ya!
GWB
I have both and the 280AI is going to make it's first ever appearance at the lease. Both have Limbsaver pads on them and with the same weight bullets I really can't tell if one kicks harder than the other though neither bothers me. I don't sit around shooting groups for fun with either just regular load workups and go hunting.
Either will work just fine if the operator can put in the right place!
Top: Custom Sako AV, 280 AI, 140 gr. Accubond
Bottom: Sako 85 Bavarian Carbine, 30-06 Springfield, 168 Gr. TTSX
GWB
Hmmmm I dunno....the 280A.I. kill looks kinda deader.
I was just sitting on my sofa with this same decision to make for my Christmas present, but I had the 280 Rem in the mix as well. Seems like for my needs staying at 450-500 yards being my max range and that will be a once in a lifetime event, as most shoots are limited to 300 yards. A 30-06 in a 22” barrel will be the choice. But it’s boring and a Kimber hunter in 280 AI sounds like a foreign car to the folks I hunt with. Maybe I could get some cool points!
My choices were
Kimber Hunter 280AI
Browning Xbolt 280 AI or 06
Rem 700 MTN in 280 rem or 06
I don't have a LW 30-06, but I have a very light Pierce Ti receiver, pencil barrel, custom Kevlar stock rifle in 280AI. Felt recoil is sharper than my Weatherby Mark5 in 300 Weatherby.
Either will work just fine if the operator can put in the right place!
Top: Custom Sako AV, 280 AI, 140 gr. Accubond
Bottom: Sako 85 Bavarian Carbine, 30-06 Springfield, 168 Gr. TTSX
GWB
Hmmmm I dunno....the 280A.I. kill looks kinda deader.
Good eye!
Ya!
He was shot first!
GWB
I have both the 280AI and several '06's. I like both cartridges.
I like 7mm's I have or have had, 7mm-08, 7x57, 280's (& a 7mm Express), 280AI, 7mm RM's. 7mm TNT, 7mm TCU. If I had only one 7mm, it would likely be the 280, but 7mm-08, 7x57 and the 7mm RM's are very nice cartridges too.
I have more 30's than 7mm's.
If I were to have one rifle it would be a 30-06. If I were stuck with one bullet and one gun it would be a 180 Grain Nosler Partition in a 30-06.
But a 280 or a 280 AI or a 7mm RM with a 162 grain Hornady or 150 grain Partition would work very well too.
None of these cartridges have significant recoil - very mild recoil in fact. And unless you're thinking of shooting 400+ yards, the trajectory doesn't much matter. And If you're thinking 400+ you might want something more powerful such as a 300 Weatherby or 300 Winchester or something bigger.
I have owned a 7MM Rem Mag, a 7MM Weatherby Mag and a standard 280 in my past and used all of them for hunting deer and the 7MM Remington for killing elk too.
After a few decades of experience were behind me I sold all my 7MMs (one I wish I had not was my 7X57) but there is no way I'd get rid of my 30-06s.
In the real world I found the 30-06 did all the 7MM mags did and for the most part did them better. If the the 280 AI is not going to beat the 7MM Mags. So from what I have learned in hunting several states most years and killing game as large as elk with various 7mms and also with 30-06s, I would say that the 30-06.
You can go a different way, and unless you had opportunity to kill 20-30 animals with the 280 and also the same number with the 30-06 you'd probably never know any difference. Many fans of various calibers have a long histories with their favorites yet have no long histories with anything else so never really have a qualified opinion.
If you take the 280 AI I am sure you'll like how it kills game. But my experience is that it won't cover the bases as well of put game on the ground quite as fast as a good 30-06
your mileage may vary
Cartridges by age group:
20 to 30 - 6.5CM
30 to 45 - 280AI
45+ 30-06
Cartridges by hat:
Flatbrim - 6.5 CM
Kuiu/First Lite/Sitka/Killix - 280AI
Whatever was hanging by the door - 30-06
Cartridges by hairstyle:
Man bun - 6.5CM
Receding - 280AI
Combover or gone - 30-06
Cartridges by age group:
20 to 30 - 6.5CM
30 to 45 - 280AI
45+ 30-06
Cartridges by hat:
Flatbrim - 6.5 CM
Kuiu/First Lite/Sitka/Killix - 280AI
Whatever was hanging by the door - 30-06
Cartridges by hairstyle:
Man bun - 6.5CM
Receding - 280AI
Combover or gone - 30-06
Gahhhh damnit
I have owned a 7MM Rem Mag, a 7MM Weatherby Mag and a standard 280 in my past and used all of them for hunting deer and the 7MM Remington for killing elk too.
After a few decades of experience were behind me I sold all my 7MMs (one I wish I had not was my 7X57) but there is no way I'd get rid of my 30-06s.
In the real world I found the 30-06 did all the 7MM mags did and for the most part did them better. If the the 280 AI is not going to beat the 7MM Mags. So from what I have learned in hunting several states most years and killing game as large as elk with various 7mms and also with 30-06s, I would say that the 30-06.
You can go a different way, and unless you had opportunity to kill 20-30 animals with the 280 and also the same number with the 30-06 you'd probably never know any difference. Many fans of various calibers have a long histories with their favorites yet have no long histories with anything else so never really have a qualified opinion.
If you take the 280 AI I am sure you'll like how it kills game. But my experience is that it won't cover the bases as well of put game on the ground quite as fast as a good 30-06
your mileage may vary
I tend to agree with what is written here, to a point. Up until a few years ago, the 30-06 had a slight edge over the 280 or 280AI because of the availability of heavy for caliber bullet offerings in 30 cal, which made the 30-06 a better choice for heavy boned animals. Over the last 5-10 years, however, that has begun to change. People have started to understand that what makes those heavy 30 caliber bullets great also makes heavy 6.5mm and 7mm bullets great, (although the Europeans already figured that out) and they started looking to the bullet manufacturers to provide, which they did. Now you can get heavy-for-caliber bullets in the 6.5mm and 7mm flavor and with them that 280 or 280AI is just as good, or better than the old 30-06. You can get similar performance out of a 160-180 grain 7mm bullet as you do in the 180-220 grain 30 caliber bullet, with a bit less recoil. Now, you also take into account the improvements in bullet construction and you can bring short action chamberings into the discussion as well, but that is a different topic.
Cartridges by age group:
20 to 30 - 6.5CM
30 to 45 - 280AI
45+ 30-06
Cartridges by hat:
Flatbrim - 6.5 CM
Kuiu/First Lite/Sitka/Killix - 280AI
Whatever was hanging by the door - 30-06
Cartridges by hairstyle:
Man bun - 6.5CM
Receding - 280AI
Combover or gone - 30-06
Lmao! ...good post 16 👍......Hb
There is nothing magical about the 280 AI other than its a great way to take what was a fine feeding cartridge and make it feed worse
30/06 for me
If you reload .280 if not .30-06
This.
Winner!!
I pulled the trigger on the 280AI. I guess my reasoning is if it becomes impossible to buy good factory loaded ammo or components, I can always go back to a 30-06. I think ultimately I'll own one (30-06) anyways at some point for the sake of owning it but it could be years down the road. I took a look at some of the test targets with different ammo from the rifle that I'm picking up tomorrow and it appears that its iffy with 140-150gr factory loaded ammo but likes 162gr eld-x. Which is great for me because I have a friend that works for Hornady that hooks me up with ammo from time to time.
Cartridges by age group:
20 to 30 - 6.5CM
30 to 45 - 280AI
45+ 30-06
Cartridges by hat:
Flatbrim - 6.5 CM
Kuiu/First Lite/Sitka/Killix - 280AI
Whatever was hanging by the door - 30-06
Cartridges by hairstyle:
Man bun - 6.5CM
Receding - 280AI
Combover or gone - 30-06
Chalk me up for a 30-45 and a Receding hairline.
Here's a post by John Barsness from the Ask the Gunwriter forum that kind-of addresses your question:
These days I'd still go with a similar NULA (the .30-06 has a #2 contour 24" barrel) but might go with the .280 Ackley Improved. It basically gets .30-06 muzzle velocities with the same-weight bullets, but the 7mm bullets have somewhat higher ballistic coefficients, so drift less in the wind. There are so many good bullets these days it would be hard to pick one, but as in .30 there are plenty to play with. Would probably go with a high-BC 162-168 grain for a basic all-around bullet, paired with a stouter bullet in the same weight range for certain uses.
I recently put a 3-10x42 Nightforce SHV with their new Forceplex reticle on the .30-06, which looks to be a good compromise for a hunter who usually doesn't shoot at long range, but might stretch a shot a little longer now and then. The Forceplex is a more visible in dark timber than many thin-lined "ballistic" reticles.
But the reality is that I'm probably never going to get rid of the .30-06. Have taken more big game with it than any other rifle over the 21 years since it showed up, and not only does it have plenty of memories, but it still shoots extremely well, and the .30-06 isn't all that different from the .280 AI.
Plus, I have a bunch of other rifles that will be headed down the road as my work schedule slows down over the next decade or so. Don't plan on ever totally retiring. What would I do? Go hunting? But have already started cutting back some.
And here's a link to the full discussion:
CLICK HERE
If you reload .280 if not .30-06
This.
Yup.
I love my .280 Rem (not AI'd), but it suffers the same problem as the .280 AI when it comes to factory ammo - there is good ammo available but limited availability at the LGS (all of them) and usually more money than .30-06. (I handload so the cost of factory ammo is not an issue for me.)
Read my signature for my thoughts on the .30-06. Never really yearned for one but as fate would have it 5 different ones have been in my possession and three keepers are still in my safe.
If you reload .280 if not .30-06
This.
Total agreement with this as well. I bought my Rem 700 Mtn in 280 Rem. The day I had to buy a single box of shells at the one sporting goods store that actually had them for $36, I started looking for used reloading equipment. Then when I got a 260 Rem that need became two-fold,and same with my 6.5 Grendel.
30’06ai.....the swagger of AI, but with availability of Lapua brass....at a good price too I might add!
your sweating apples vs apples, these cartridges perform so similarly its not worth the bother, if you want the "cool" cartridge get the Ai if you want the practical cartridge get the 06' ...Its not that hard 👍......Good luck ....Hb
30-06 = Budweiser
280 AI = Imperial Nutlicker Manbun Porter
Don't knock it till you try it
At the end of the day ... if you shoot less than 300 yards, you lose flexibility with the 280...
However if you shoot 400-500 or even further, then you loose ballistic long reach with the 06..
So it really matters how far you shoot.
I would go with the 30-06. I have 300 Win mags, 300 Weatherby’s, but they won’t do anything the 06 won’t do at the ranges I hunt.
If you like them both, get both!
Cartridges by age group:
20 to 30 - 6.5CM
30 to 45 - 280AI
45+ 30-06
Cartridges by hat:
Flatbrim - 6.5 CM
Kuiu/First Lite/Sitka/Killix - 280AI
Whatever was hanging by the door - 30-06
Cartridges by hairstyle:
Man bun - 6.5CM
Receding - 280AI
Combover or gone - 30-06
Love it!
I like both plenty, but when it came to dropping the coin on a custom my choice was 280ai. Still have an -06 in a pre 64 Winchester though.
Cartridges by age group:
20 to 30 - 6.5CM
30 to 45 - 280AI
45+ 30-06
Cartridges by hat:
Flatbrim - 6.5 CM
Kuiu/First Lite/Sitka/Killix - 280AI
Whatever was hanging by the door - 30-06
Cartridges by hairstyle:
Man bun - 6.5CM
Receding - 280AI
Combover or gone - 30-06
Quoted for preservation of awesomeness.
Cartridges by age group:
20 to 30 - 6.5CM
30 to 45 - 280AI
45+ 30-06
Cartridges by hat:
Flatbrim - 6.5 CM
Kuiu/First Lite/Sitka/Killix - 280AI
Whatever was hanging by the door - 30-06
Cartridges by hairstyle:
Man bun - 6.5CM
Receding - 280AI
Combover or gone - 30-06
Hahahaha this is so true.
Is there anything in North America I could shoot with a 30-06 that wouldn't be recommended in 280AI?
No.
Handloading would increase the AIs flexibility.
A midweight mono will drill big stuff end to end.
A 140g Ballistic tip for everything else.
If the 280 AI wont feed your gunsmith is a retard.
dave
Neither.
For the future hunting possibilities you mentioned, your current 6.5 CM or 308 Win will suffice. Spend the $ on bullets for them (Nosler Partitions or Accubonds?) and practice with it in different hunting positions and distances. It will pay more dividends than getting another chambering.
Cartridges by age group:
20 to 30 - 6.5CM
30 to 45 - 280AI
45+ 30-06
Cartridges by hat:
Flatbrim - 6.5 CM
Kuiu/First Lite/Sitka/Killix - 280AI
Whatever was hanging by the door - 30-06
Cartridges by hairstyle:
Man bun - 6.5CM
Receding - 280AI
Combover or gone - 30-06
I wear a gortex rain hat. Guess what type of cartridge I use?
Cartridges by age group:
20 to 30 - 6.5CM
30 to 45 - 280AI
45+ 30-06
Cartridges by hat:
Flatbrim - 6.5 CM
Kuiu/First Lite/Sitka/Killix - 280AI
Whatever was hanging by the door - 30-06
Cartridges by hairstyle:
Man bun - 6.5CM
Receding - 280AI
Combover or gone - 30-06
I wear a gortex rain hat. Guess what type of cartridge I use?
Ha! Trick question..............no rifle, you’re a birder!
Cartridges by age group:
20 to 30 - 6.5CM
30 to 45 - 280AI
45+ 30-06
Cartridges by hat:
Flatbrim - 6.5 CM
Kuiu/First Lite/Sitka/Killix - 280AI
Whatever was hanging by the door - 30-06
Cartridges by hairstyle:
Man bun - 6.5CM
Receding - 280AI
Combover or gone - 30-06
Resurrection due to hilarious reply.
I was mulling this over and did a quick search and found this thread.
Love this reply. And after going through all the info , and even though I fit in the 30-45/kuiu/receding category I’m still sticking with the 30-06.
![[Linked Image from i38.photobucket.com]](https://s38.photobucket.com/user/glenn1221/media/latestgunstuff/KC9A6976.1_zpso4vcup6i.jpg.html)