Seems like people are awfully emotional about the 6.5 Creedmoor on here. I'm buying one because I hear it's not unpleasant to shoot and has excellent factory ammunition available, not because I think it's a miracle cartridge.
Seems like there's a lot of overlap between the creedmoor and many other non-magnum cartridges like the 7mm-08 and 270 Win - a "the deer won't know the difference" sort of situation.
At what point, as you move up the scale in terms of caliber and case size, do you start seeing a clear increase in performance on game from the creed? I'm asking because I like to have rifles that do different things and aren't very redundant.
Everything 26 caliber and up is designed for the same game animals. With the right bullets any of the 6.5's and up are suitable for all but about 4-5 animals on the planet. If you want to hunt any of those 4 or 5 then it is time to move up to 375. And both the 6.5X55 and 7X57 have been used successfully to kill every animal on the planet, even those 4-5 they probably are too small to be used on. Remember WD Bell killed over 1100 elephant in his career. The 7X57 was his preferred rifle, but he also used 6.5X55 and nothing bigger than 303. Late in his life he stated that had the 308 been available that it would have probably been his favorite.
I can only speak to my experience. The 338 Fed has a more noticeable impact on elk and deer. The Creed makes them dead, no question there, but there is a visible and audible difference when a 338 bullet hits.
Pretty much. Warm 30-06 loads push 180's like warm CM loads push 140's. I'd also venture to say that a 7mm Magnum of any sort is also a fair step up as well, loaded with 160-180gr bullets.
30-06 is sort of the answer I want to hear, because I have a 30-06 already. It seems intuitive that a 30-06 shooting a good 180 grain bullet has to be a better choice on something like elk than the 6.5 shooting something in the 140 range, but I'm willing to believe that what seems intuitive to me is wrong in this case.
Thanks for the answers, everyone, keep them coming! I'm really interested to hear more of your reasons for your choices.
Pretty much. Warm 30-06 loads push 180's like warm CM loads push 140's. I'd also venture to say that a 7mm Magnum of any sort is also a fair step up as well, loaded with 160-180gr bullets.
Pretty well describes my attitude. I KNOW the 7 RM is a Clear step UP.
Seems like people are awfully emotional about the 6.5 Creedmoor on here. I'm buying one because I hear it's not unpleasant to shoot and has excellent factory ammunition available, not because I think it's a miracle cartridge.
Seems like there's a lot of overlap between the creedmoor and many other non-magnum cartridges like the 7mm-08 and 270 Win - a "the deer won't know the difference" sort of situation.
At what point, as you move up the scale in terms of caliber and case size, do you start seeing a clear increase in performance on game from the creed? I'm asking because I like to have rifles that do different things and aren't very redundant.
In short actions, I think that the "eliminated redundancy" step up from the 6.5CM would be the 338FED.
In long actions, the 30-06 seems like as good a place as any to start.
I don't mind redundancy and have hundreds of rifles that are chambered for dozens of redundant cartridges. l have seldom met a cartridge that I couldn't like somewhere along the spectrum from "yuck" to "wow".
One nice byproduct of the 6.5CM's popularity is that manufacturers are starting to sell factory varmint loads, making it a more useful dual-purpose round for those folks who don't reload. Federal is advertising a varmint load with the 95 grain VMax at a claimed 3,300 fps MV that would be strong coyote medicine if they are accurate in your rifle.
I don't understand the strong feelings for or against some cartridges that some folks seem to have, or why they will spend time arguing the merits of one verses another that is, objectively speaking, functionally redundant. I guess that some people just like to argue for the sake of arguing and some folks seem to feel that their way if the only way, all other ways being inferior.
My advise would be to buy a rifle chambered in 6.5CM, if that is what you're thinking of doing, and shoot it a bit, maybe 40 rounds of 5 different brands and bullet styles of factory ammo. If you like it, keep it. If you don't like it, sell it. You'll spend a little money on the ammo and you may lose some money if you sell the rifle, but experience is seldom free and good experience always has a cost. Everybody is different and two people experiencing the exact same physical event may perceive it differently. If you depend on the experience of others to make your decisions, you may make a decision that is sub-optimal for you.
I'll go with the 7 mag as well. Give it the same high BC bullet for caliber that the creed has going for it & they have some great long range numbers along with a considerable "step up" in power.
I don't mind redundancy and have hundreds of rifles that are chambered for dozens of redundant cartridges. l have seldom met a cartridge that I couldn't like somewhere along the spectrum from "yuck" to "wow".
Originally Posted by 260Remguy
My advise would be to buy a rifle chambered in 6.5CM, if that is what you're thinking of doing, and shoot it a bit, maybe 40 rounds of 5 different brands and bullet styles of factory ammo. If you like it, keep it. If you don't like it, sell it. You'll spend a little money on the ammo and you may lose some money if you sell the rifle, but experience is seldom free and good experience always has a cost. Everybody is different and two people experiencing the exact same physical event may perceive it differently. If you depend on the experience of others to make your decisions, you may make a decision that is sub-optimal for you.
Thanks, I only have four rifles, and I'm not looking to start a very large collection. My perspective would definitely be different if I had dozens or hundreds. And as far as letting strangers on the internet make decisions for me, that's something I read on here every now and then when people ask for advice. I have no intention of letting anyone make these choices for me, but I do like to learn from others and factor the things I learn into my decisions.
Seems like people are awfully emotional about the 6.5 Creedmoor on here. I'm buying one because I hear it's not unpleasant to shoot and has excellent factory ammunition available, not because I think it's a miracle cartridge.
Both.are are correct and excellent reasons to buy one.
Quote
Seems like there's a lot of overlap between the creedmoor and many other non-magnum cartridges like the 7mm-08 and 270 Win - a "the deer won't know the difference" sort of situation./quote]
Correct again. The overlap starts with centerfire .22's and goes up to at least the .308 Win - and arguably higher.
[quote]At what point, as you move up the scale in terms of caliber and case size, do you start seeing a clear increase in performance on game from the creed? I'm asking because I like to have rifles that do different things and aren't very redundant.
Caliber and initial velocity (case size, generally speaking) are only two components of terminal performance. Bullet construction and range are a couple more. Hodgdon and Nosler list 2889fps and 2953fps respectively as max for a 130g bullet. Hodgdon also lists 3066fps as maximum for the Swift Scirocco II in the 6.5PRC. My 6.5-06AI runs the 130g Scirocco II at 3161fps. All those velocities are based on 24" barrels. Using the Scirocco II with those velocities and velocity and ft-lbs energy as the yardstick for destructive potential at 7000 feet altitude.
Daughters .270 Win runs a Nosler 150g ABLR at 2912fps. That gives it a calculated 2132fps and 1515ft-lbs at 700 yards. My .300WM pushes a Barnes 175g LRX at 3036fps for 1974fps and 1514fpe at 825 yards and my .338WM runs a Nosler 225g AB at 2778fps for 1744fps and 1520ft-lbs at 925 yards. (These are also calculated for 7000 feet altitude.)
There is no clear-cut answer to your question, as there are simply too many variables. Comparing destructive potential (retained energy at whatever range) provides clues but the rapidity and efficiency of the transfer of that energy to the target play huge roles that cannot be ignored. Thuds bullet construction matters a great deal and one cannot assume a given bullet type with significantly different diameters and weights (say 140g 6.5mm and 225g .338" Accubond), given equal energy, will behave identically on impact.
If you use the 6.5CM as the basis for an "upgrade" I'd say you might want to quantify your parameters for the "step-up". You could use some mathematical benchmark such as ft./lbs of energy at 300 - 400 yards. What would be acceptable over the CM - 20% more? Would you consider a SD comparison too? Then factor in if you are capable of mastering the "upgrade"? What good is more "hitting power" if you anticipate the recoil? But as we have seen here many times, standard "deer cartridges" take larger N.A. big game quite effectively. Good luck.
If you use the 6.5CM as the basis for an "upgrade" I'd say you might want to quantify your parameters for the "step-up". You could use some mathematical benchmark such as ft./lbs of energy at 300 - 400 yards. What would be acceptable over the CM - 20% more? Would you consider a SD comparison too? Then factor in if you are capable of mastering the "upgrade"? What good is more "hitting power" if you anticipate the recoil? But as we have seen here many times, standard "deer cartridges" take larger N.A. big game quite effectively. Good luck.
I figured people can interpret the question how they want. I'm still learning about ft/lbs energy and whether or not that is an effective measurement of killing power. From what I've been reading, what makes a cartridge effective is a combination of velocity and bullet construction - pretty much whether a bullet can do what it's designed to do at its velocity when it hits game. I'm still figuring out what role the caliber of a bullet plays in this whole thing. I know that "bullets matter more than headstamps," but surely caliber matters as well?
Originally Posted by Bighorn
Creedmoor=Impeachment.
Sick and tired of hearing both.
That's why I put "6.5 Creedmoor" in the title - so that people don't have to click on it. So far, this discussion has been a little more insightful (for me, at least) than some of the other threads about the Creedmoor, but I get that it feels like this topic is being done to death and there's nothing new to be said.
It depends on what you mean by "clear step up". If you mean that the upper end of the useful range of capability is noticeably above that of the Creedmoor, then somewhere around 7 mm Mags shooting 150 gr bullets faster than 3000 fps. If you mean no overlap between the top of the useful range of the Creedmoor and the bottom of the range of the other, then I would guess somewhere around a 338 Win Mag.
6.5 Creedmoor did nothing for me and I tried to like it after owning a couple. IMO the 6.5 PRC is what the CM should have been from the beginning. 3000 ish FPS with 140 class high BC bullets in affordable factory ammo in a short action with little to no recoil is pretty damn impressive. And easily exceeding 3000 FPS with same or even heavier bullets when reloading is where it’s at. I expect many more flavors of factory ammo in it available this coming year as well. I’ve still got several 30 cal rifles but they are boring and unenjoyable to shoot. The PRC is a tack driving SOB that you could shoot all day.
6.5 Creedmoor did nothing for me and I tried to like it after owning a couple. IMO the 6.5 PRC is what the CM should have been from the beginning. 3000 ish FPS with 140 class high BC bullets in affordable factory ammo in a short action with little to no recoil is pretty damn impressive. And easily exceeding 3000 FPS with same or even heavier bullets when reloading is where it’s at. I expect many more flavors of factory ammo in it available this coming year as well. I’ve still got several 30 cal rifles but they are boring and unenjoyable to shoot. The PRC is a tack driving SOB that you could shoot all day.
What about the Creedmoor made you not like it after owning one? Did it let you down on a hunt?
It just seemed blah to me, I didn’t feel like it really outperformed so many other cartridges. Factory ammo at 2570 with 147’s , 2720 with 143’s reloaded , just didn’t horn me up if that makes sense. No knocks on it if it works for others but it was just boring to me personally.
I bought a Fieldcraft 6.5 CM a couple years ago and like everything about it. Been telling myself over the past year I should sell off a bunch of rifles that don't get used much, buy a Fieldcraft 30-06 and call it good for all the hunting I do. Seems to be a consensus here along that line of thinking...
Seems like people are awfully emotional about the 6.5 Creedmoor on here. I'm buying one because I hear it's not unpleasant to shoot and has excellent factory ammunition available, not because I think it's a miracle cartridge.
Seems like there's a lot of overlap between the creedmoor and many other non-magnum cartridges like the 7mm-08 and 270 Win - a "the deer won't know the difference" sort of situation.
At what point, as you move up the scale in terms of caliber and case size, do you start seeing a clear increase in performance on game from the creed? I'm asking because I like to have rifles that do different things and aren't very redundant.
..............Well in terms of only 6.5 mm rounds, then I would consider the following to be a quite a step up from the Creed in the 6.5mm field. The 6.5/284 Norma, 6.5 PRC, 264 Win Mag, 26 Nosler and followed lastly by the most powerful commercially offered 6.5 mm cartridge, the 6.5/300 Weatherby.
From the .277 caliber, the 270 WSM and 270 Wby. Both quite a step from the Creedy.....Ok. Some may also include the good "ol 270 Win.
From the 7mms; the 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Wby, 28 Nosler, 7mm RUM.....And same applies with these as well. Quite a step up from the Creed.
Seems like people are awfully emotional about the 6.5 Creedmoor on here. I'm buying one because I hear it's not unpleasant to shoot and has excellent factory ammunition available, not because I think it's a miracle cartridge.
Seems like there's a lot of overlap between the creedmoor and many other non-magnum cartridges like the 7mm-08 and 270 Win - a "the deer won't know the difference" sort of situation.
At what point, as you move up the scale in terms of caliber and case size, do you start seeing a clear increase in performance on game from the creed? I'm asking because I like to have rifles that do different things and aren't very redundant.
I think you’d have to go to a magnum cartridge to gain much of any of the “standard” rounds. Including the 6.5
I don't mind redundancy and have hundreds of rifles that are chambered for dozens of redundant cartridges. l have seldom met a cartridge that I couldn't like somewhere along the spectrum from "yuck" to "wow".
Originally Posted by 260Remguy
My advise would be to buy a rifle chambered in 6.5CM, if that is what you're thinking of doing, and shoot it a bit, maybe 40 rounds of 5 different brands and bullet styles of factory ammo. If you like it, keep it. If you don't like it, sell it. You'll spend a little money on the ammo and you may lose some money if you sell the rifle, but experience is seldom free and good experience always has a cost. Everybody is different and two people experiencing the exact same physical event may perceive it differently. If you depend on the experience of others to make your decisions, you may make a decision that is sub-optimal for you.
Thanks, I only have four rifles, and I'm not looking to start a very large collection. My perspective would definitely be different if I had dozens or hundreds. And as far as letting strangers on the internet make decisions for me, that's something I read on here every now and then when people ask for advice. I have no intention of letting anyone make these choices for me, but I do like to learn from others and factor the things I learn into my decisions.
If I only had 4 center-fire rifles and I lived in SD, one would be a heavy barreled colony varmint rifle and the other 3 would be the same make, model, and configuration. A couple of years ago I put together a 3-rifle set of stainless Ruger Hawkeyes in 223, 6.5CM, and 338FED that I bedded in McM Hunter style stocks that are non-redundant steps in terms of "power" and hunting niches.
I figured people can interpret the question how they want. I'm still learning about ft/lbs energy and whether or not that is an effective measurement of killing power. From what I've been reading, what makes a cartridge effective is a combination of velocity and bullet construction - pretty much whether a bullet can do what it's designed to do at its velocity when it hits game. I'm still figuring out what role the caliber of a bullet plays in this whole thing. I know that "bullets matter more than headstamps," but surely caliber matters as well?
...
You are ahead of the game compared to a lot of folks.
Velocity and bullet construction, including mass (which with velocity at impact determines a bullet’s maximum destructive potential), are important. So is a bullet’s expansion characteristics, which are determined by construction and characteristics of target encountered.
When hunting elk, I prefer my .338WM to my .258 Roberts an probably any 6.5CM load available. Diameter is part of the reason because the .338 expands wider. At the end of the day, though, what matters is how much energy is transferred to the target, the time frame in which that transfer occurs and where that transfer occurs. The goal is to accelerate flesh and bone past its limits of elasticity. There is no magic calculator for determining what you want to know.
I'm with AC on this- the 6.5 Creed seemed really blahs. I appreciate the soft recoil but AM not particularly recoil shy till you get into 30 ft/lbs of recoil. A 7-08 seems like a better mousetrap, factory offerings aside. I've been looking at the 6.5 PRC and 6.5 SAUM before that. I could like 3000 ft/sec with a 140ish bewlit. But that seems to be plain jain 270 Win territory.
I've been pondered a new build and have run way too many ballistic numbers. I like lowish recoil, high BC bewlits with integrity, and lightweight rifles. The looney in me is screaming to rebarrel one of my LA Kimbers to plain ol' 280 Rem with a 22 or 23" tube and be done with it. The Mod 84 Lilja contour is very nice.
Seems like people are awfully emotional about the 6.5 Creedmoor on here. I'm buying one because I hear it's not unpleasant to shoot and has excellent factory ammunition available, not because I think it's a miracle cartridge.
Seems like there's a lot of overlap between the creedmoor and many other non-magnum cartridges like the 7mm-08 and 270 Win - a "the deer won't know the difference" sort of situation.
At what point, as you move up the scale in terms of caliber and case size, do you start seeing a clear increase in performance on game from the creed? I'm asking because I like to have rifles that do different things and aren't very redundant.
On what sized game?
From my experience with everything from 223 up to 300 mag on whitetails if hit in the same spot with either a 55 grain or 180 grain results are the same, a dead deer pretty fuggin fast.
Never shot any critters larger or tougher than deer though.
Agree. If I'm stepping up from the creedmoor. I am doing so in both bore diameter and case capacity. Thus if I need more than the little 6.5 CM I reach for the 300 WSM.
338 Fed in short action ( can't believe they are not more popular) 225gr bullet ... good for anything... san's dangerous game ( Cape Buffalo and such )
270 Win in a long action .. amazing cartridge ..merits go forever
My experience, with deer size game...I really see a difference when stepping up in speed.
I've had great results from .243, 6.5s, 270s and .308s. Mostly with heavy for caliber bullets. All have killed very well, mostly went down in sight or where they stood with good placement. No clear difference between any of them.
Fast .22 cals and 7mm mags with light bullets had a noticeably bigger effect.
Remember WD Bell killed over 1100 elephant in his career. The 7X57 was his preferred rifle, but he also used 6.5X55 and nothing bigger than 303. Late in his life he stated that had the 308 been available that it would have probably been his favorite.
some corrections;
.256 Frazer Mannlicher carbine was (in Bells own words) his preferred rifle. If not for the misfires and troublesome necks on the Austrian [Steyr] rounds he would have continued to use such, rather than swap out for his Mauser .275 bore with ultra reliable DWM ammunition.
For elephant- He used rifles from .450cal down, .350 Rigby, 318WR, .303, .275, .256
He stated his Lee .303 was an excellent elephant rifle.
He stated his Lee .303 was his most reliable rifle in harsh conditions.
He stated that .318/250 grain was his most reliable performer on elephant. on average it maintained a straighter penetration track than .275 bore.
.256 solids were prone to bending, while .275 solids were not.
Although the .318WR projectile performed great on elephant, the actual ammunition was of less than desirable quality, causing him pressure spike problems, blowbacks, misfires, and extraction problems. Hence why he writes that he uses his SxS .318 shooting cormorants simply to burn up his large stash of .318 ammunition.
IF .256 and .318 ammunition quality had not become an issue, the Mauser .275 would have been just another in the mix of well suitable rifles Bell used, without any extra special history. ..but having stuck to using .275 bore for a number of years [after dropping the .256], and thus purchasing some 1/2 dozen Rigby mauser .275 bore rifles over those years, history was forged by circumstance. [ie;] had .275 bore DWM ammunition proved in some way unreliable like those other rounds, there would not be a standout Bell /Rigby 7x57 story to tell, we instead would be talking about his Lee .303 with its reliable military ammunition and all the elephants he dropped with it.
Assuming you are talking about BG hunting then a “clear step up” is .... a 375 H&H. Combined with a 6.5CM and a thick checkbook you could get a lot done.
At what point, as you move up the scale in terms of caliber and case size, do you start seeing a clear increase in performance on game from the creed?
What game and what is an increase in performance? You can move DOWN in caliber and case and get the same or better "performance" on "game" depending on variables. The cm is no better at killing deer sized critters than is a .260, 6.5x55, 7-08, Grendel, and many, many others. Possibly even a .270 Winchester or .223 AI. I can tell you for a fact that on a given day I saw a 7x57 with 140gr out perform a .340 Weatherby with whatever low weight Ballistic Tip Weatherby used to load. A pie plate entry with the .340 and the <100lb doe ran across a green field. 7x57 with Accubond on a 140ish lb buck that took a step and fell downhill about 12 feet. Which cartridge was "up the scale"? And I can give you similar stories about .270 Weatherby Mag vs 7-08, .260, .243...............
The 6.5 cm was not introduced to make up for the lack of killing power of any cartridge. Again, for deer sized game and probably up and down that "scale" some, there's plenty of chamberings that are no better or worse than their stable mates; the 6.5 cm being one. But I am hearing factories are starting to secretly load duplex powder loads with 1 to 2 grains of pixie dust between main charge and the primer for both the 6 and 6.5 cm. That's the real magic, not the headstamp.
Seems like people are awfully emotional about the 6.5 Creedmoor on here. I'm buying one because I hear it's not unpleasant to shoot and has excellent factory ammunition available, not because I think it's a miracle cartridge.
Seems like there's a lot of overlap between the creedmoor and many other non-magnum cartridges like the 7mm-08 and 270 Win - a "the deer won't know the difference" sort of situation.
At what point, as you move up the scale in terms of caliber and case size, do you start seeing a clear increase in performance on game from the creed? I'm asking because I like to have rifles that do different things and aren't very redundant.
Agree. If I'm stepping up from the creedmoor. I am doing so in both bore diameter and case capacity. Thus if I need more than the little 6.5 CM I reach for the 300 WSM.
I’d agree, even though I don’t have either. 300 WSM / 300 WM.
Old skool 243 & 30-06 here...with a 270 for giggles.
I use my 6.5 CM mainly for it's accuracy when deer hunting at ranges up to 350 yards. That is for the lighter deer species like the average red deer, sika deer and fallow. Case in point, a couple of weeks back I had to take a difficult 200 plus yard shot on a sika stag which are about the size of a WT buck. I could only see his lower neck up and his hind quarter on one side. I knew that the Creed would place the 143 ELD-X where I aimed and so it was. Instant kill, through the base of the neck.
I use my .308 with 180gr Norma Oryx for close in (under 50 yards) on large heavy bodied red stags during the roar (rut). They can sometimes come running in at you and you haven't got time for fancy bullet placement. My hunting buddy prefers his .338/06 AI for large stags.
338 Fed in short action ( can't believe they are not more popular) 225gr bullet ... good for anything...
I'm surprised too..... KINDA.
Even tho I haven't had one, I've checked it out pretty well. I like it very much on paper.
IMO it's much better than a 358 Win, which I've had several. I'm really not much of a 308 case fan BUT I think the 338 F is first Class.
Now this is MY opinion and it's worth what you paid for it. It seems to me that the 338 F came on the scene LATE - 2006 and IMO the 'hunting' public was/is not on top of the ballistic scene. -- The 6.5 C has the competition background PLUS marketing HYPE so....
The 'hunting public' already had/have lots of options in the S A 08 case so.... another one ?
In my personal experience KNOWING lots of deer club members ( 3 large membership leases ) not many are interested in the "creed", I have met ONLY 1 hunter who knew what a 6.5X55 was *** he's dead now ***, not too many even use the 308 *shock* I have known VERY FEW deer hunters carrying a 308, most of those want 'velocity' (including me).
I think MOST would HAVE to admit the 338 F doesn't have a great trajectory so.....
Seems like people are awfully emotional about the 6.5 Creedmoor on here. I'm buying one because I hear it's not unpleasant to shoot and has excellent factory ammunition available, not because I think it's a miracle cartridge.
Seems like there's a lot of overlap between the creedmoor and many other non-magnum cartridges like the 7mm-08 and 270 Win - a "the deer won't know the difference" sort of situation.
At what point, as you move up the scale in terms of caliber and case size, do you start seeing a clear increase in performance on game from the creed? I'm asking because I like to have rifles that do different things and aren't very redundant.
Agree. If I'm stepping up from the creedmoor. I am doing so in both bore diameter and case capacity. Thus if I need more than the little 6.5 CM I reach for the 300 WSM.
I’d agree, even though I don’t have either. 300 WSM / 300 WM.
Old skool 243 & 30-06 here...with a 270 for giggles.
The 300 WSM is a Creedmoor on steroids. Great cartridges both.
Judging by some of the detractors of the CM, let's not forget why and how it was developed. It was supposed to be the next best 1000 yard, paper puncher. The genesis of it was printed in the Rifleman or Am. Hunter. After in that arena for about 10 years, it transitioned over to hunting.
Judging by some of the detractors of the CM, let's not forget why and how it was developed. It was supposed to be the next best 1000 yard, paper puncher. The genesis of it was printed in the Rifleman or Am. Hunter. After in that arena for about 10 years, it transitioned over to hunting.
And the 300 WSM has been a staple of the 1000 yard game.
Judging by some of the detractors of the CM, let's not forget why and how it was developed. It was supposed to be the next best 1000 yard, paper puncher. The genesis of it was printed in the Rifleman or Am. Hunter. After in that arena for about 10 years, it transitioned over to hunting.
And the 300 WSM has been a staple of the 1000 yard game.
Come to think of it, sort of miss one of my many Kimber Montana's with 300 WSM engraved on the barrel..............lots of elk have gone into the freezer on account of it.
Judging by some of the detractors of the CM, let's not forget why and how it was developed. It was supposed to be the next best 1000 yard, paper puncher. The genesis of it was printed in the Rifleman or Am. Hunter. After in that arena for about 10 years, it transitioned over to hunting.
And the 300 WSM has been a staple of the 1000 yard game.
Come to think of it, sort of miss one of my many Kimber Montana's with 300 WSM engraved on the barrel..............lots of elk have gone into the freezer on account of it.
Funny, I was looking at another Kimber 300 WSM today on GB. With Talleys and a NF SHV, I'd expect it to go 7.65 lbs. My previous 300 WSM (M70 EW) killed 2 bulls and it was pretty decisive. It weighed too much over 8lbs for my liking. I bought an early Montana in 300 WSM and it fed rough plus with a 3-9 VX2 and Talley's recoiled more than I liked - but that was just before my shoulder surgery for a torn labrum. I hate this time of year..................
The creedmoor design in both 6.5 and 6 varieties does have a lot of things going for it and was really a good design and marketing idea from the beginning. I have had a couple different ones and they have shot well they just didn’t do anything different than some other calibers I already owned. I know have a set of matching 700 remingtons 243 and 308 with the same scopes, triggers, and mcmillan edge stocks. They cover the gamut of the hunting that I do.
A clear step up for most hunting ranges would be a 30-06 with heavy bullets or a big 30 cal magnum. They hit hard and will be harder hitting than a creedmoor. The big 7mms slinging 180 grain bullets are tough to knock as well.
Yes, I remember that photo Brad - a classic winter hunt. The only thing missing are the snowshoes!
bwinters - I echo your sentiment on many elk successes but a body now that isn't as youthful as it once was - at least on the bench. With a little judicious loading, the 300WSM with a 165 grain would be kinder. The 300WSM's can be a little "rough" due to the shoulder angle. Hmmmm.................
Pretty much. Warm 30-06 loads push 180's like warm CM loads push 140's. I'd also venture to say that a 7mm Magnum of any sort is also a fair step up as well, loaded with 160-180gr bullets.
That is pretty much where I am. 6.5 CM w/127 LRX and .30-06 w/168 TTSX.
Thanks everyone for the replies - this has been a really interesting read. Sounds like with a creedmoor and with my 30-06 shooting 180s, I should have pretty much everything covered from antelope to whitetails to elk. And it seems like either one can be pressed into service for any of the big game hunting I’m likely to do.
Call me outdated, but the .30 Gov’t 06 (200s at 2730), .270 Win (150s at 3050), and .300 Win Mag (200s at 3000) pretty much leave the 6.5 Creedmoor at the curb for what I do.
My main two hunting rifles are a 6.5 Creedmoor and a .30-06, so I guess that would be my answer. I see the CreedBro as a deer cartridge that will work for elk, and the .30-06 as an elk cartridge that's a bit heavy (but obviously will still work) for deer.
I used 127gr LRX in my 6.5 to take my cow at 375 yds this year, one down through the high shoulder clipping the bottom of the spine, and another through the neck, both hit a good bit of bone, wrecked a bunch of stuff and exited. Same with a 140gr Accubond through the ribs two years ago, two holes, nice damage in between. On the other hand, I caught both of the 180gr Accubonds from my .30-06 in last year's cow at 320yds. Not sure why I see the .30-06 as the next step up, I didn't get as much penetration, but the effect of those 180s hitting was immediately apparent, and the damage they caused was impressive. I might give 200gr ABs or 168gr TTSX/LRX a try next year, I like seeing two holes.
If your hunting style gives you time to slip on some hearing protection, I think a braked 300 wsm in Kimber Mt would be a great rifle. I have one and I just don’t enjoy shooting it. It’s either getting a brake or getting sold.
Originally Posted by bwinters
Funny, I was looking at another Kimber 300 WSM today on GB. With Talleys and a NF SHV, I'd expect it to go 7.65 lbs. My previous 300 WSM (M70 EW) killed 2 bulls and it was pretty decisive. It weighed too much over 8lbs for my liking. I bought an early Montana in 300 WSM and it fed rough plus with a 3-9 VX2 and Talley's recoiled more than I liked - but that was just before my shoulder surgery for a torn labrum. I hate this time of year..................
I hear ya. I buy a 300 WSM in some flavor every 4-5 years, load 180s to 2950 or so and decide it's a bit much in lightish rifles. After re-evaluating my current 280 AI load (160 Accubond at 2950), its damn close to the 300 WSM in all categories with enough less recoil to make it a better mousetrap for my style of hunting. Inside 300 yards, my 338 Federal (210 Partition at 2600) covers the 300 WSM ground - again with tolerable recoil. I'm getting soft in my old age......
I had this conversation with a friend and he said 7mm rem mag would be a clear step up in speed and long range terminal ballistics.
Of all the short-fat craze I believe the 7mm SAUM is the best designed. It is the one with a sufficient neck for heavy bullet proper seating. I think that might be one reason it hangs on.
If your hunting style gives you time to slip on some hearing protection, I think a braked 300 wsm in Kimber Mt would be a great rifle. I have one and I just don’t enjoy shooting it. It’s either getting a brake or getting sold.
Calvin, remember giving me a raft of chit for getting scoped by my Kimber MT 300 WSM with two quick shots off-hand under field conditions?
Maybe it makes a little more sense to you now... and yes, the above dead bull (180 Partitions) was the result.
Seems like people are awfully emotional about the 6.5 Creedmoor on here. I'm buying one because I hear it's not unpleasant to shoot and has excellent factory ammunition available, not because I think it's a miracle cartridge.
Seems like there's a lot of overlap between the creedmoor and many other non-magnum cartridges like the 7mm-08 and 270 Win - a "the deer won't know the difference" sort of situation.
At what point, as you move up the scale in terms of caliber and case size, do you start seeing a clear increase in performance on game from the creed? I'm asking because I like to have rifles that do different things and aren't very redundant.
.416 Rigby
Yup.
I actually used one I had to shoot coyotes out my bedroom window. I shot 350gr Speer varmint bullets. It was good practice with a rifle used seldom and then only for big-nasties.
I'm not a Creedmore fan, nor am I a detractor. It's a good round and especially for kids, women, and recoil conscious shooters of any stripe. I like a 6.5, and mine was first developed 125 years ago.
I recall it being a bit different than that but I certainly am not going to look it up.
Merry Christmas
Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by Calvin
If your hunting style gives you time to slip on some hearing protection, I think a braked 300 wsm in Kimber Mt would be a great rifle. I have one and I just don’t enjoy shooting it. It’s either getting a brake or getting sold.
Calvin, remember giving me a raft of chit for getting scoped by my Kimber MT 300 WSM with two quick shots off-hand under field conditions?
Maybe it makes a little more sense to you now... and yes, the above dead bull (180 Partitions) was the result.
If your hunting style gives you time to slip on some hearing protection, I think a braked 300 wsm in Kimber Mt would be a great rifle. I have one and I just don’t enjoy shooting it. It’s either getting a brake or getting sold.
Originally Posted by bwinters
Funny, I was looking at another Kimber 300 WSM today on GB. With Talleys and a NF SHV, I'd expect it to go 7.65 lbs. My previous 300 WSM (M70 EW) killed 2 bulls and it was pretty decisive. It weighed too much over 8lbs for my liking. I bought an early Montana in 300 WSM and it fed rough plus with a 3-9 VX2 and Talley's recoiled more than I liked - but that was just before my shoulder surgery for a torn labrum. I hate this time of year..................
Are suppressors legal in AK Calvin.....grin.... Invest in one, seriously....
If your hunting style gives you time to slip on some hearing protection, I think a braked 300 wsm in Kimber Mt would be a great rifle. I have one and I just don’t enjoy shooting it. It’s either getting a brake or getting sold.
[quote=bwinters]Funny, I was looking at another Kimber 300 WSM today on GB. With Talleys and a NF SHV, I'd expect it to go 7.65 lbs. My previous 300 WSM (M70 EW) killed 2 bulls and it was pretty decisive. It weighed too much over 8lbs for my liking. I bought an early Montana in 300 WSM and it fed rough plus with a 3-9 VX2 and Talley's recoiled more than I liked - but that was just before my shoulder surgery for a torn labrum. I hate this time of year..................
I really want to go that route, but, Local FFL ain’t interested. I would have to travel off island to do paperwork.
Not to muddy the water too much, but I tagged two cows with a Montana 325 WSM with 200's. I don't recall that being as punchy as my 300 WSM with 180's - but that was 10+ years ago and memories sometimes fade.
338 Fed in short action ( can't believe they are not more popular) 225gr bullet ... good for anything...
I'm surprised too..... KINDA.
......
I think MOST would HAVE to admit the 338 F doesn't have a great trajectory so.....
I really like my 6.5 Creedmoor (Barrett Fieldcraft) and my 338 Fed (84M). Surprisingly, my 338 Fed hunting load of 160 TTSXs shoots flatter than my 6.5 hunting load with 139 Scenars at any range I intend to shoot (<500, likely much less). That’s for 9k elevation where I’m Muley hunting. The 6.5 is rather better on windage however. If I use the 127 LRX load at 2940fps the trajectory is nearly identical. I am not making a case for the 338 Fed as a long range cartridge, it’s not, but for more typical ranges it’s not as bad as many seem to believe.
But the 338 is a clear step up when shooting elk at moderate ranges.
I really like my 6.5 Creedmoor (Barrett Fieldcraft) and my 338 Fed (84M). Surprisingly, my 338 Fed hunting load of 160 TTSXs shoots flatter than my 6.5 hunting load with 139 Scenars at any range I intend to shoot (<500, likely much less). That’s for 9k elevation where I’m Muley hunting. The 6.5 is rather better on windage however. If I use the 127 LRX load at 2940fps the trajectory is nearly identical. I am not making a case for the 338 Fed as a long range cartridge, it’s not, but for more typical ranges it’s not as bad as many seem to believe.
But the 338 is a clear step up when shooting elk at moderate ranges.
Seriously you may be right, I don't know off the cuff.
OR
The 6.5 C ain't that good !
I'll take you word on it. The C doesn't do anything for me since I have a 70 in 6.5X55, and rifles larger and smaller than the 338 F. Remember I said "I like the 338 F" and I'm not critical.
I will say thanks to the 6.5 CM for breathing life into sadly a dying caliber. 6.5 Swed etc as well. Many more reloading components now to choose from.
One thing that’s been hard for me to break is actually using a 6.5 on big game. Only used my 260 once on a whitetail cull buck.
I’ve always been a 7mm/30 caliber guy and using heavy for caliber bullets.
Yes the 6.5 CM doesn’t produce much recoil, but if you use a larger caliber with the same BC or higher, it’ll outperform the 6.5 CM especially with similar or higher velocities.
I’d grab my 270, 270 WSM or 270 Roy before I’d ever grab my 260 or 6.5 CM for anything larger than deer in my opinion.
I will say thanks to the 6.5 CM for breathing life into sadly a dying caliber. 6.5 Swed etc as well. Many more reloading components now to choose from.
One thing that’s been hard for me to break is actually using a 6.5 on big game. Only used my 260 once on a whitetail cull buck.
I’ve always been a 7mm/30 caliber guy and using heavy for caliber bullets.
Yes the 6.5 CM doesn’t produce much recoil, but if you use a larger caliber with the same BC or higher, it’ll outperform the 6.5 CM especially with similar or higher velocities.
I’d grab my 270, 270 WSM or 270 Roy before I’d ever grab my 260 or 6.5 CM for anything larger than deer in my opinion.
I will say thanks to the 6.5 CM for breathing life into sadly a dying caliber. 6.5 Swed etc as well. Many more reloading components now to choose from.
One thing that’s been hard for me to break is actually using a 6.5 on big game. Only used my 260 once on a whitetail cull buck.
I’ve always been a 7mm/30 caliber guy and using heavy for caliber bullets.
Yes the 6.5 CM doesn’t produce much recoil, but if you use a larger caliber with the same BC or higher, it’ll outperform the 6.5 CM especially with similar or higher velocities.
I’d grab my 270, 270 WSM or 270 Roy before I’d ever grab my 260 or 6.5 CM for anything larger than deer in my opinion.
6.5 Swede a dying caliber?
News to me.
For a lot it is unless you reload. Most only buy a rifle they can buy ample factory loads for...
I would contend that a 140 gr 6.5mm cartridge would be quite adequate for up to elk, I have used 308 Win, 338 WM and 444 Marlin. The latter two made much more of an impression, but the 308 Win was rock solid. Many have said an 06 would be the next logical step but I would say any .33 caliber cartridge would be a better jump.
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