Well, it was bound to happen eventually. I was sitting with my daughter this afternoon when she shot a 110lb spike broadside at 115 yds. It was a good shoulder hit that i watched through binos. The deer went down but continued to flail until we got out the stand and jogged down to put it out it’s misery. The 55 grain Barnes Vor-Yx bullet had essentially splattered on the shoulder bones and one of the fragments nicked the spine partially paralyzing the deer. It was not a pretty scene.

We have had such good luck with that bullet the last few years that I guess I was lulled to sleep. I know we still ended up with a dead deer, but it was not a big deer and the range was not extreme. I would go heavier but the CZ has 1:9 twist and does not shoot anything heavier very well. Guess we will have to stick to neck or boiler room shots from now on even on smallish deer.

Why stick with a .223???

I find it awfully hard to believe a Barnes x bullet splattered on a shoulder bone.

60 gr Partition or 64 gr Solid Base. Either is tough as you could ever need.

Not married to the 223, but daughter likes the rifle and has killed a few deer wit it. I have gotten poor accuracy with anything over 55 grains. It shoots the Barnes 55 and Hornady 55 grain in nice little cloverleafs at 100 yds thought.

Never thought the .223 was big enough. Others will disagree.

Would never had believed it either if I had not just seen it. Splatter might not be the right term. More like it shattered into small shards. Maybe we just got a bad bullet. I have been reading some troubling things about Barnes quality control of late.

I'm a little confused...a 1/9 won't shoot anything heavier.... All but two of my .223s have been 1/9 and shoot 75 grain bullets almost exclusively...with sub .5 MOA accuracy...

A friend has killed pushing 40 deer with his .223 which is a 1/12 I believe... 95% have been with the Winchester 64 grain PowerPoint. A few others with the Sierra 63 gr. SMP and the discontinued Trophy Bonded.

Was wondering what bullets you have tried...

Bob

My mistake. It is the older CZ with the 1:12 twist.

I have not loaded heavy bullets just tried the Honady Black, Ferderal Fusion and Federal Premium from 62 to 77 grains and would not group any of them well. Strangely it does not Iike very light bullets either, but shoots all 55 grain I have tried very well.

Move her up to a 6.5 with a 100 grain TTSX - that is the TTSX specifically. The combination produces mild recoil, but consistently excellent terminal results.

The TSX produced inconsistent terminal results for me in .30-06 and I swore off Barnes after that. Thankfully, someone coaxed me into trying the TTSX, which has consistently produced excellent terminal performance for the last seven or eight years on deer and countless pigs.

Don’t you know......Running down the mighty .223 will get you on real trouble around here. It’ll get you kicked out of the club.

Happen to have pics of the impact and/or skinned carcass??


I'm always interested in bullet performance and such.


I've learned the "shoulder" means different things to different people. Archery guys especially love to brag "such n such broadhead went right through the shoulder". Well.....kinda. That's a paper thin scapula you could get through with a butter knife.




I'm pretty surprised a Barnes didn't fair better. I don't have any experience with them or a 223 on deer...but I've read lots of good things.

use either a 63 grain SMP Sierra or a 70 grain SMP Speer, and put it in the right spot, either one will drop a deer fast...

@OP, First off... Good on ya for taking the daughter hunting. Congrats !


If you are set on the 12 twist CZ in .223, the bullets above are worth a try. If not, as others have mentioned, might be worth moving up a millimeter in bore diameter. I started my petite grand daughter off with 110gr NAB's in a .270 Win rifle with a short stock. She never noticed recoil when shooting KY WT's...

Since I'm not a member of the club to begin with, I'll say this........the 223 will indeed kill deer, and I have killed a few deer with it, but there are FAR BETTER choices, and I believe using a 223 is best left to those who are good enough to place that bullet with surgical precision. Most young or inexperienced hunters are simply not able to that. That's what a 243 is for, and I consider it to be the least cartridge one should use for deer........and for those who say there isn't enough difference between the two cartridges to matter, I say they have idea what they're talking about.

When you say it didn't group the Fusion well, how did it group them? I had a 12 Twist 223 that wouldn't group them either. 4" Groups at 100 yards with no oblongation of the holes on paper. That was bad grouping. I have seen some folks eschew a 2" gun for deer even when their longest shot would not likely exceed 100 yards.

Try the Partition and Bonded before you give up.

Probably the bone fragmented and it looked like the bullet splattered. Was the base of the bullet found, or did it exit?

Can't blame the cartridge or bullet if it brought the animal down and you recovered the deer. If lungs aren't hit well, it's going to take time for it to bleed out.

A cup and core could have lacked penetration enough that the deer might have got away or not been knocked down.

Was the bullet a 55 Gr. TSX or TTSX??

Barnes does not offer the TTSX in Vor-Tx 223 factory ammo

Try the green box Remington 55 gr psp.

Could be you got your one and only bad experience out of that bullet. I would keep using it.

4 of my grandkids use a 223 for whitetail. they shoot winchester power point factory loads with 64gr bullets. shot behind the shoulder, their deer rarely travel more than 30 yards. i like them to shoot heavy for caliber bullets. shots for them here on the farm are rarely over 50 yards. if the op has lost confidence in one bullet, there are many others out there which will work.

My 1-12 Featherweight shoots 60gr Partitions very well.

A friend’s granddaughter has the same rifle as you have and the ammunition I’ve described above have patterned well and have been deadly on whitetails. Her rifle won’t shoot heavier bullets either.

Just fwiw

Bullets hitting living animals fo strange things. Shoot e ought animals and sooner or later you’ll have an experience that’s abnormal.

Here’s my thought:

How many deer has this rifle and bullet combination killed successfully?

How many times has it performed subpar? Sounds like a sample size of 1.

Sample size of three with this rifle and four with this bullet/ammo. Granted, not a large sample size, but more than one.

I think it was an unusual, freak occurance. I've killed somewhere around 25-30 deer with a .223 and ordinary 55 gr. sp's with no problems or catastrophic bullet failures.

My instinct is to say that you are right about this. I am going to keep using it since it is so accurate out of this rifle and has performed so well the previous three times we have used it on deer. I have seen strange things happen when bullets meet deer flesh before.

It’s the campfire way. One bullet does something that appears odd out of its normal proven parameters, and it is reason to change what one uses or where they are going to aim if they do.

Thing is, the new choice will also have someone, somewhere who has something odd happen.

You recovered the animal. Things happen off script sometimes as we all know out in the field. Congrats to your daughter.

Move up to a 243 and the 80 grain TTSX

Had a Remington Mohawk 600 with a 1/12 that would shoot the Sierra 63 grain SMP into .5 MOA with 26.0 grains of 748. Also have a Valmet 412 12/.223 that shoots under and inch with that same load.

Sold the Mohawk to my friend in Texas as I knew it would get more use and his family have already killed several deer with it and the Sierra load.

Only .223 bolt gun I have right now is a 1/8 Tikka that I got from Mackay Sagebrush. With 75 grain Hornady or 63 grain SMPs it will run in the .5 area...

Bob

I've taken 3 Blacktails with my Featherweight.... each were bang/ flop....

70 grain Speer SMP... over a load of 28 grains of H 380, at like 2900 fps...
from around 100 yds out to 200 yards.. Forest Service land...

If I take a 223 out deer hunting one of the three bullets will be loaded for it..
Speer 70 gr SMP, 63 SMP Sierra, 60 gr SP Horandy...

Three Deer with a .223AI and 52grain TSX. One made a little 20 or 30 yard circle. The others just more or less fell over on the spot. Two with a 22-250 and 62grain TTSX. One at around 200 and one around 70. The one at 70 went in the chest and out a ham. Neither seemed to take another step.

I've used the 06 a lot more than the 223 for hunting.. so I've of course taken more deer with the 06, and 180 grain bullets..
but I've also had more failures out of the 06... so can anyone draw any logical conclusions from that? I can't...
its still putting the right bullet in the right spot and the bullet performing like it should.. which also doesn't always happen..

on the other end, I'll have to admit.. the old beloved 444 Marlin has never ever failed me...

I witnessed this “splatter effect “ with a 22-250 shooting a factory loaded trophy bonded bear claw. Ruined the deer’s shoulder and essentially turned him into a 3-legged deer. He hobbled around for a year before he was finally put out of his misery.

If you handload, switch to the 64 Nosler Bonded Solid Base. You won't have any problems with it--expansion, weight retention, straight penetration. Barnes bullets, every so often, just do something ridiculous upon impact. It's part of the game with them.

I've never had a deer go far when shot through the lungs with either a 60 grain Partition or 64 grain PowerPoint.

IIRC, Mule Deer once posted that he helped to kill a pile of cull animals in Africa with 55 grain Winchester/Olin factory loads and that must be a more fragile bullet than anything made by Barnes.

My go-to bullet in any slow twist 22 caliber rifle is the 55gr Hornady SP. However, my only 1-12 twist 223 hates that bullet. It's a Ruger M77 MarkII UL. I did find that it really likes the 50gr TTSX and it performed well on the one deer I've taken with the rifle. Shot was through the vitals at 255yds. Deer did a typical 50yd death run, per usual with that shot placement. That rifle also shoots the 63gr Sierra extremely well, as in 3/8in well, but I haven't used it to take a deer yet.

the 223 will indeed kill deer, but there are FAR BETTER choices



This

I must be the only one ever to not have a bullet failure.

Here is some 55gr ttsx faiure
SD Mulie 94 yds. 40 yd down hill death run


WI cow headed doe, 47 yds. dropped at shot


SD Doe 120 yds. dropped at shot

Crazy that a cartridge designed for varmints, failed on a big game animal.

well then count your blessings and keep on smiling....

every thing is eventually within the law of averages..

I've never had a traffic violation, until I got one....

congrats to your son, and proud dad, for your son's TTSX failure...

Shame on you!:-)

I thought that Remington designed the 223, or 5.56x45, as a military cartridge and that it was intended for shooting people, some of whom might very well have been varmints.

The cartridge was designed for enemy combatants, usually larger and far more dangerous than the 110 lb. deer mentioned in the OP. It has since been pressed into service as a varmint cartridge.

Odd things sometimes happen when you squeeze the trigger.