You guys ever meet someone and they tell you what their main rifle is and you automatically feel contempt for them? See their factory box ammo on the dash and think- what a dipshit? Maybe I'm just getting sour...

27 nosler..I just don’t get it.

Honestly? Nope, can’t say I have...

No. Not someone I met. But occasionally i feel that way about guys on the FB PA hunting group. A few times a year someone will start a post asking what is a good deer rifle to get and there is always that dope who responds "30-40 Craig". Not only do they misspell it but it's also not a practical recommendation. I feel contempt for that clown.

First time I saw a 17HMR that's what I thought. Obviously I was wrong.

And the Bersa Thunder 380. I thought that must be junk. Wrong again.

Huge magnums in the South.
No, Cletus, you don't need a 300Rum to kill a 100lbs doe at 105yards.

6.5 Criedmore.

I once made a fellow mad who was hunting with a 300 Weatherby Magnum. I told him that I'd read somewhere that men who hunted with big guns did so because it was psychological............they were trying to make up for having a little penis. Boy, did he get mad.

40 S&W

I'm going to say "It depends."

For instance, I knew a fellow years ago that hunted whitetail out of club down in GA and said he'd bought a 300 WIN MAG for the deer in the swamps. That just didn't make sense to me. A coworker finally filled me in on the rest of the story: he was the camp drunk.

On the other hand my buddy, SuperCore, had a 300 WIN Mag that he loaded down to 30-06 levels and shot 165 grainers from and it was both pleasing to look at and a joy to shoot.

270 WIN is one of those cartridges that put me in an evil mood just thinking about it. On the other hand, I've never met a 270 WIN shooter that didn't seem sincere. Most of them were women, so I guess that maybe the reason I cut them slack.

People who shoot 35 Whelen are my brothers. I keep a 35 Whelen round next to my chair in the family room. I find it soothing to hold.

223 REM. Look, if you want to shoot deer with 223 REM, I'm all for it. I'm 223 REM- curious myself. On the other hand, if you show up in black tactical gear and have a M92 on a drop leg holster, I'm going to strongly suggest you hunt on the next ridge over.

People who shoot expensive 12 GA shotguns have my respect. People who hunt turkey with cheap 12 GA shotguns have my admiration. People who hunt turkeys with $1200 shotguns for turkey have my disdain. $8/round turkey loads double the disdain.

People who shoot Skeet with a deer barrel with rifle sights I know I'll be fast friends with.
People at the range who shoot full-sized torso targets with 12 GA birdshot at 10 feet are folks I want to stay away from.

Agree 100%. I'm not saying that these 2 calibers should die because they do have their place. I live in southeast NC and I've never seen the reason for magnum rifles around here but lots of guys here deer hunt with either a 300mag or 7mm mag with heavy bullets. The deer around here aren't that big but I guess they have their reasons.

What difference does it make what someone else shoots? I only care about what I think about the cartridges I choose to hunt with.

Dude, this made me chuckle!!!! I too am a member of the PA Hunting FB group. I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment. At first it was cool, but I think I blocked the feed now. Even the PA Predator hunting group is getting hard to take sometimes. I still like it as an aggregate statistic to see where all the coyotes are being killed.

People post the stupidest questions, which then yield heckler comments like the one you mentioned.

I get so tired of all the droning on over the 6.5 Creedmoor. It doesn't do anything the old 6.5X55 has done for a century.

Well, I think contempt is a bit strong. But I too scoff at people under my breath sometimes. First, I'm not a fan of the good old 30-06 but that is just because everyone had one when I was kid. But I don't look down on people that have them.

The things that get me are the people that fall for the latest newfangled fad.

Like the first time I see someone in PA (Mind you,we still can't hunt deer with semi-autos and we have no stupid straight wall cartridge rule) with one of the new 350 legends in say a bolt action - I will scoff. My old Marlin 336A in 30-30 will do everything that 350 legend will do on the average whitetail, and then some. Especially with Hornady lever evolution ammo or like handloads.

And the folks that just had to have a new 6.5 creedmore for deer...........when at all practical hunting ranges, the old 270 Win will do just fine. Seriously?!

Except it does it with optimized and standardized pressure, chamber, throat and brass dimensions which make it an "easy button" solution for precision with off the rack rifles and this is particularly true for those who don't handload.

Maybe the 6.5 does all that's needed on those deer with less blast and recoil. At "all practical ranges" my 250 Savage will do the same, but I'm a handloading hobbyist and not everyone is.

No, none, a bunch of us bassturds here are getting old and will be dead soon enough, I will show no disdain or disgust to anyone wanting to hunt or shoot any damn cartridge, I don't want the sport to die.
Also don't give a rip if a guy showed up here with a Sharps rifle in 22 Hornet he wanted to shoot black powder in, I'd set him up with machine shop Bud to cut him a wad punch and turn down a powder compression die, hell, I bet I could even find him a mold maker for casting his own bullets, the anits love and feed off our bickering and judgmental infighting, don't give em any!

You could, at random, select one rimfire. Then we'll do drawings from a hat. We will take little pieces of paper and on each piece of paper we will write a cartridge chambering. Then place all the pieces of paper listing each centerfire from the 22s through let's say 24s into one hat. Place all the pieces of paper listing each centerfire from the 25s through 27s into another hat. Finally, place all the pieces of paper listing each centerfire from the 28s through 30s into another hat. If we were to randomly draw one chambering from each hat and eliminate the rest for eternity, all of our North American hunting needs would be covered successfully and effectively.

No, it would not be as fun as things are today. However, it would be the easiest and most effective means of determining which calibers should die. It's actually as valid as any other means.

At least listening to and reading about ballistic minutia disagreements is an educational experience, if one can separate the hurt feelings and hostility that occasionally (usually) occur.

Everything except be legal to use in Ohio. Which is why I'm start my 7 year old on a .350 legend this summer.

We hunt both States, and I don't want to buy him two rifles right now.

Also- who cares. People can use whatever they want to use. It doesn't have to check any boxes lol. Use what you want!

-Jake

I have both the Swede and the Creed, each with new Shilen barrels.

The Creed is easier to load for, shoots about everything well, some loads super well. The Swede is more selective, not as forgiving, but very accurate with loads it likes.

Both kill stuff equally dead.

DF

BAM! My brother from OK speaks my thoughts! Shoot em all!

I took my Godson to Collbran, Co to shoot an exotic when he was 13. Have to be 14 to hunt in Utah ( stupid Law). Anyhow, there was a guy, 50ish, who was there to shoot one of the big bull elk on the place ( at that time, $5500) he was showing me his 25 Winchester Super Short Magnum he had handloaded the 117 Hornady "round nose". We hear them later that day, multiple shots fired, big bull finally down, at the skinning shed, many were barely getting into the body cavity. He finally made a killing shot at the base of the skull. He was so happy! Then had a guy in church who "won" a browning in the 223 SSM. It was not that accurate, he had sticky bolts with the factory loads. Poor design ( and or use) of them soured me. Add 'any" of that old Electric Ammo crap...

Another Remington boondoggle marketing flop.

They've had their share.

DF

Agreed.

Quoted for truth.

I won't begrudge a man for the caliber he shoots. Judgement come with how well he shoots whatever caliber he has chosen, as long as it is the right one for the job. Like the guy we hunted with that used a .308. I have nothing against that caliber, I own several myself. But after he destroyed a yearling doe with a raking gut shot and then turned a turkey into a pile of feathers and ground meat, I didn't like how he used that caliber at all. Probably wouldn't have mattered if he was a 50 cal muzzle loader or a 340 WM. He was just a bad shot. Its not the arrow, its the indian.

6.5x55 Swede needs to die.

It's bad enough we got the 6.5 Creedbros but then we gotta listen to the old timers that haven't a clue tell us about how the Swede has been doing it "for over a hunnert years!!!"

N
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t

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!
!
!

I like my Creed, but I ain't a bro!

crazy ain't it, I worked in a rifle tuning shop back in college, had a big guy, admitting he took steroids, traded in his 300wby for the new 300 ultra mag. Bigger the better was his philosophy. We decked it out with a nice zeiss scope, he broke the power ring within the first month manhandling that thing.

I'm equal opportunity, P.C. and such.

I like them both, shoot them both, kills stuff with both...

Didn't realize I was so big into diversity...

DF

Really ? You surprised me there.


Altho I have a Swede, I'm FAR from a BIG proponent or advocate. I haven't hunted it in several years.

There are cartridges/calibers that I have NO use for, the Kriedmore being one, but I AGREE with those here who've said,
"Shoot em all, We need more advocates than opponents".


Jerry

I don't care what someone else hunts with as long as it's legal. I understand the desire for some folks using a cartridge that has a high percentage of DRT kills. High Brass lived in "down east" NC and the desire to drop a deer quick is based on swamps and brush. Not everyone reloads so going to a magnum or a light fast bullet for DRT kills is understandable to me.

.55 French Pin-fire.
oh wait................ I guess it did.

Be interesting if I would live long enough to see what happens to this blizzard of lever gun specialty cartridges and the "my little pony short fat case" cartridges are doing 25 years from now. My guess is something on the order of the .25 Stevens Rimfire.

The 270 Win is the holy grail of Whitetail cartridges, all others try to compare. In a similar way to the 30-06 for an "everything" cartridge.

Some make more sense to me than others.

If another’s choice in cartridges/calibers ever gave me heartburn, I think I’d just take a Midol...

+1

With a caveat though. Please don't try to convince me your latest, greatest new cartridge is capable of stuff that completely defies the laws of physics. We've had that crowd with every new offering.

Dirtfarmer

Speaking of Remington flops, the Accelerator line of 50-55gr out of '06 and 308 Win.

Not arguing, I never bought any.
ATST > ' back when' I read a few G Ws who said they were plenty accurate for them <whatever that meant, I can't remember>.

OTOH I thot it wasn't a bad idea for those who didn't handload. I never heard why they were taken off market, probably from lack of sales, just a guess.

Jerry

I have a box of 30-06 Accelerators, never got around to shooting them...

If I want to shoot fast 50 gr. bullets, I'll crank some out of my 22-250.

DF

........................No! Cannot say that I have. Factory ammo on the dash? Well maybe he or she is not a reloader....You may need to be sweetened up just a bit!!......LOL

And if their main rifle happens to be a 500 Nitro Express for hunting deer is close quarters, even though a horrible and waaaay overpowered choice, then so what....Yep! That is a very dipchit choice, but it is their choice to make no matter how much one disagrees.

None.

Growing up, I think I got a giggle out of some friends and relatives who swore that their cartridge and rifles of choice were the absolute best, and “an absolute Death Ray” if you will. They’d get pretty cocky about it, and years later, I realized that I’d attached their personalities to those cartridges.

IDK about the 06 or 308, but I got a box of them for my 30-30. Shot the head off a crow at ~125 yards from by bedroom window when I was like 16 back when they first came out. Worked fine for me. Come to think of it, I bet I still have half that box. I wonder if there's any collector value for them from the 70s?

BTW You'all, I'm LOL at all these posts!!

I would say i don't really have much respect (contempt is too strong a word for what I feel) for the gun store owner of a mom and pop operation who believes the 6.5 creed is the answer for every hunting scenario. (well almost) Both he and his wife use one, and of course they push them in their shop. Browse the racks of new guns, and get rid of all the 6.5 creed's, and you may have half left. Hard pressed to find an 06, let alone some other great chamberings such as 338 federal. Again, I don't mind what people shoot. Just that there are other great cartridges out there. I think that shop is responsible for a guy I know getting a Creed for his "long range" gun, which in Pa means 500 yards max. Asked him what he was replacing, and he said 7mm Mag. I just walked away from that conversation.

No, I can’t say I’ve judged a person by their choice of caliber, solely on the caliber alone.

Now, if for example someone was to propose .30-30 for Cspe Buffalo id definitely question their judgment and sanity.

There’s some wisdom in this post

I like the way you think!

I don’t care, I have magnums I don’t need, just wanted them. I know I’m over gunned watching grandkids blast deer-pigs with a 243.

I get a kick out of how many guys are triggered by 300 mags. I had a new Weatherby Mark V DGR .340 magnum at the range this weekend. Very accurate gun! I have a Docter 6X scope on the way for it and I can guarantee its going to see the deer woods this year.

Now Mike, you don't want to kill em TOO dead. LOL


Jerry

Let's not be rash!

I figure if I have a gun in every caliber, no matter what caliber cartridges I find I'll be able to shoot. Just in case of an ammo shortage.

I think everybody is scared that all that will be left is four legs and a head. Lol. We've shot them with 338's in the past and it was no big deal. A .243 wrecks the meat worse.

There is a LOT of ILLogic in that ! More than I care to address. sheesh ! S M H





Yes what people 'think' and reality are not always the same.

I've killed plenty of deer with 300 WMs and some with the 8mm RM. They DON'T blow them all apart.

There are NOT degrees of dead!

Jerry

Anything AI

Nope. I don't have reason to scoff at anybodys choice. Seeing as how I've hunted and killed deer with everything from .22LR to .30-06 and many in between, including the dreaded 6.5 Creedmoor {notice correct spelling} I don't care what you or anybody else wants to use.

Anything with WSM in the name.....

Never ran across a caliber that wasn't useful. Some cartridges are more versatile than others.

Just the short mags, leave the super mag alone

The only thing a fishing lure has to do is catch a fisherman. It's the same deal on most cf cartridges just got to catch the shooters interest held right, placed right ,in an adequate range of suitability for the job at hand they all work. I don't like these type of arguments over what's best , sheeit might as well rule out a woman for her hair color and all she has to be really is willing for what you want. Same as beer, cold , wet, free that's all that's important . Winter getting long for some of you? MB

Yep my thoughts too. I didn't need them either, just wanted them and wanted to be different. Got tired of all the talk about the thutty -thutty, the thutty awt 6 , 270 and the 243. Even though I have one of each of those too.

I'm neither here nor their on a .300 Winchester. I suppose its a great round judging by all the people that like it. I prefer the Weatherby for its longer neck and It out runs the Winchester about 100 FPS, which is not earth shaking. Actually, I have the Weatherby because I got a good deal on a used Mark V Lazer Mark and took it.

As for the .270 Winchester, I'm no woman and I love the cartridge and I know lots of other men who love it besides me. Most people I know who bitch about it probably never shot one. All I can say about it is that it has worked very well for me for 53 years. With the right bullets it's a bang flop killer of game. I don't shoot at game over 400 yards but it will kill Medium game and elk DRT at more traditional hunting ranges. There is a move on to make barrels with tighter twists and there are some longer higher BC bullets coming out for it, so if you want to shoot to the next Zip Code I'm sure it would do that well. I don't need it and the more traditional bullets for it make me happy. There's lots of people on these forums that use it for elk. I say that even though I've never been elk hunting. But the volume of people here that claim to have killed elk with them makes me believe they are effective for that.

I agree on the Whelen. I know at least 100 people that shoot a Whelen and kill big animals with them and love it. I have a 9.3x62 that fills that niche for me, but I could have gone the other way and built a Whelen just as easily. I just got talked into building the 9.3, and I'm satisfied with it.

I feel the .223 Remington has its place. I have two, a Savage bolt gun and an AR. I haven't used it for hogs yet but know it will work on them and plan to use the AR on some this Spring. I too get cranky when I see some clown dressed like a Ninga using it on elephants. I think it has it's place but anything bigger than deer and hogs should get something more appropriate. However, you hunt your cape buffalo and I'll hunt mine.

I love 12 gauges and own 3. I don't care how much yours cost. Last time I checked my particular Citori was selling for around $1500. If you can find one cheaper good. I also have an express 870 that probably goes for less than $400 new. I don't care how much yours costs. I also have a nearly 80 year old Model 12 Winchester. I have no idea what one goes for today, and if you can find a grass sack full of 'em for $100 good for you.

And finally, I don't care how you kill your skeet. i kill mine with an improved cylinder or skeet choke tube. If you kill yours with a .270 thats fine with me. just warn me if you're doing it around where i am so I can dodge those flying bullets.

Now I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, I'm just having a little fun with the OP. Actually, I'm pretty easy to please. However the only pet peeve I have is people touting the 6.5s over other diameters. There's nothing magical about them. Any caliber you can find a barrel twist that will stabilize the bullet that will make it happen for you will make it happen for you. If you can get a barrel for your .270 or hell, your 257 Roberts for that matter that will allow you to shoot your 170 grain (.270) or 130 grain (.257 Bob) that will allow you to shoot into the next zip code then go for it. I'm outta here for now, "Say good night Gracie!"

I always wondered why a caliber was invented in the first place. We have so many that are not different enough to matter. We had a 300 Weatherby . The bullets were expensive so the 300 Win. mag. made sense . But then a 300 Win. Short Mag and a 300 Rem. ultra mag. didn't seem to make much sense. I only buy calibers that I can find easily so the 300 Rem. Ultra Mag. is out. I have a .270 Win. , a 243 Win. and a .223 Rem. and a 22 lr. All easy to find. What I dont like is people that despise my calibers cause they think there's is better. If I had to do it all over , I think a dumb old , stupid , old mans, boring .308 Win would be fine, but then make a .35/08 Win. , a 270/08, 250/08 Win, and 24/08 WIn. Do the same with the 30-06. That would make sense cause you have the .473 case, not that I care.

And after all these many years nobody has put the B29 into production.

Bingo! I do the same thing.

You mean Mann’s purple-grape worms won’t catch fish? Dang. I hope my ‘06 still works.

I’m still trying to figure out how a person could be so shallow or judgmental as to hold a man he doesn’t know in contempt because he chooses to hunt with a $1200 shot gun or use $8 shot. . .

SMH... 🤨

IDGAS what another man chooses to hunt with whether it be the cheapest Mossberg he got from the clearance rack the local Walmart or the most expensive custom he had handfitted from a boutique gunshop in England. It’s his money. I tend to just automatically assume - at least until proven otherwise - that he’s gonna be alright just cause he hunts...

Btw, there aren’t any calibers that should die. They’re all good as far as I’m concerned. In this day and age when all guns and their owners are under attack, I’d prefer to see even more introduced...

I have had those moments. Usually it is when the gun or cartridge mentioned doesn't match their persona. I have grown to understand that is a flaw of mine and not theirs. It is really just me stereotyping them. I do admit that I used to have a hate for the 22 Hornet, but it grew on me. I started with a 218 Bee before the Hornet and I couldn't understand why someone would choose the Hornet over the Bee. If I am being honest with myself I really don't like the 220 Swift or the 270 Winchester either. I had to neck turn for the first time with the Swift I owned and I hated it. The 270 kicks just enough that it is not exactly light, but just hard enough you have to hold onto it. Plus it seems like every other owner of one has to start quoting O'Connor or someone else to justify their choice. I would be a hypocrite if I did not fess up to owning a 270 Winchester and shooting two deer with it. It is one of the classics. I guess it comes down to this... I really don't care anymore what someone else uses, but I do know what I won't use.

In my youth once or twice I looked down my nose at some guy with a Fudd rig, or rather his rig and choice of chambering made me think he was a real Fudd, but soon learned the error of that.

Still have some reactions to two kinds of folks.

1. Disdain for those whose cartridge choice exceeds their ability to shoot it. Won't name names and it was almost 20 years ago anyway, but hunted with a guy who had a .300 Win. Mag that he had no business shooting since it made him flinch like an abused dog. Watched him blow multiple non-lethal holes around the periphery of animals, broke both front legs of one, just miserable shooting that made for miserable kills.

2. Amusement at those who try to buy skill instead of learning and earning it, I see them at sight in days every year. But hey, it keeps the gun stores profitable.

Hell yeah they will.... but not as well as a Bagley's Springtail Magnum..

g

Yep, bring back some obsolete ammos too so we can shoot some of these dead chamberings!

I would pay gladly for a .44 RF ammo and a levermatic to shoot it. Last time I saw one at a gun show it was an original Henry in very good condition. Wanted $125,000 for it....no ammo. No shoot, no buy.

Hold on. Let me don my Nomex suit and Kevlar and climb into my bunker in an undisclosed location......

Okay, .257 Roberts, .250/3000, .280 AI, .275 Rigby AND 7x57, .358 Win., .223 AI, .338 Fed., .260, 6.5x55, .22 Hornet, .300 H&H, .35 Whelan (deliberately misspelled to add to the outrage), .30/30, all the Kreedmires, and finally the .30 Sneezer, just for Dan.

The only one I can think of is the WSSM series.
From what I've understood the action sizing on them is so odd you largely can't even rechamber them to anything.

I could live without 10 of those easily. However it DONT MATTER to me
what anyone else saddles themselves with, I ain’t gotta live with em.


Jerry

You go to a deer hunting sight and the 223 is one heck of a good deer cartridge specially for youngsters. You go to a predator hunting sight and there is a big problem with the 223 and runners when using it on coyotes. There must be some tough coyotes out there, I'm glad I shoot a 222 Rem and don't have those problems.

I love the metaphor- "flinch like an abused dog". I know a guy like that aswell.

I'm with you on all except .257 Roberts, 30-30, and 22 hornet. I own all three. I know there are 22 cals that can do it all better than my little hornet but I have had it for years and its made many trips on the trapline. I have a couple 30-30's because they are great for my kids. They have all had one. Lower recoil but enough power that I wasnt chronically worried when they would go hiking alone. Then the .257 Roberts. I have no excuses. I just like it. Its a hand-me-down pre 64 that Ive had for decades.

I just have a disdain for legislated concepts.

The 38 Super is adequate for deer, but the 9mm and 38 Special arent.
The 350 Legend is only a great idea because certain legislators created its existence, but the 351 Winchester Self Loader of over a hundred years ago is supposedly anemic turd and NOT legal.

3 inch slugs, sabot slugs and rifled slug barrels all came about because of legislation and ways to circumvent it. Muzzleloaders too. All useless and not in the interest of cleanly killing anything.

Not calibers, but guys who recommend magnums for elk to newbs.
They need to die

223 WSSM

I like how you 2 guys think.

They don't even load there own ammo? Are they some kind of Communists?

That's right Big B, damned old crusty and opinionated old men are killing the sport and turning potential shooters and hunters off with their negative BS quicker than the antis, they need to chill and grab a fuc-kin grip!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Contempt? No, that's a pretty strong word to use for someone who simply uses a different cartridge or one I have absolutely zero interest in or use for. Now, if he opens his mouth and shows arrogant ignorance then....still not contempt but they quickly become a person I have no desire to be around or whose opinion carries any credence.

There's enough cartridges we don't need that would fill a full size pick-up bed. Most of them hit the market after about 1940 and of those that came out after 1940, the really good ones were already wildcats or their counterpart had been developed in Europe or Great Britain and most prior to 1900. The real improvements have been in propellants, metallurgy and tolerances. The one thing that annoys me most, nothing contemptuous, is when any cartridge reaches new heights of popularity when it does absolutely nothing that wasn't already being done, sometimes well over a century ago. It's good for those who shoot factory ammo and the ignorant, uninformed and those who need an easy button, I guess, but it isn't fact.

None, we diversify and age old debates.

No the really good ones were not pre 1900. The 30-06 and 375 H&H came later.

I nominate this as the WINNER!

For sure... if they’re burning any kind of powder I’m down like 4 flat tires.

Except for all the people that REMAIN gainfully employed in the Sporting Industry manufacturing those supposed disdainful products.

I think that’s a little EXTREME !

Jerry

That's it, these opinionated idiots need to open their eyes and guess how that man and kid you helped get their chit up and running, [regardless if me/you/] like it or not is going to VOTE! some people have the hardest time seeing past their noses and looking down the GD road a bit.

HEAR ! HEAR !

Wake UP fellow gun owners, shooters, hunters, afficianodos !!!
Thanks gunner.

Jerry

I don't really care what another person spends their money on...............it's their money and their right to do so. Having said that, I could get by perfectly well with a 22 rifle, a 12 gauge shotgun, a 243 for deer and coyote hunting, and a 9mm Glock.............and an AR, for the SHTF scenario. But, I wouldn't want to, as I like to have a selection to choose from, and I like having different cartridges to shoot and reload for.

Yet, to be honest, there are a lot of cartridges that don't make sense. But, killing them off is a job I wouldn't want, as I wouldn't have a clue where to start. While I think it's overkill, not to mention downright silly for someone to use a 300 magnum rifle to whitetail hunt with, it may very well be that's it the only rifle that person owns. If that's the case, then it not only makes sense, but you have to admire someone who doesn't need a safe full of rifles. Every single one of us could get by on a lot less than we think we could.......and that covers everything we do, including the number of hunting rifles we own.

You bet J, far be it from me to have EVER bad mouthed a mans setup, he'll go park that rifle in the closet never to hunt or anything else, go pick up some brochures on gayass prius battery powered vegicles, Jr. wont be getting a rifle or fishing pole either, he'll get enrolled for piano and ballet lessons, guess how they'll both vote till we're fu-kin dead and gone?

Obviously, my subtle humor has plumb evaded at least a couple of the other kids. I tried to pick as many of the rounds that have small, but very enthusiastic (rabid?) followings as I could bring to mind, and threw in a couple extra to target specific campers. I don't want to see any disappear; all are useful to some degree, even "just because". "Just because" certainly generates a lot of activity around my house. There's a couple of those wending their way here right now in fact.

Dump the .300 Whelen!!

I’ve caught a bazillion bass using an 8 inch Mann’s Jelly Worm. Purple, with a paddle tail.

Are we talking calibers or cartridges??

Sticking to the original post, this stuff should not exist. But they do, and they do for the exact reasons stated. But they also do a decent job given the parameters they were designed around.

BTW, I think high dollar rifled slugs ARE dying.

I know where there is a 1 gallon jug of these little plastic sabots for handloading.

The -06 is the offspring of the 30-03 which is the offspring of the 8 X 57, 1888, so it wasn't a new development, merely a modification of an existing cartridge, much like its home, the 1903 Springfield which was essentially an outright copy of the 98 Mauser. So much so Mauser took Springfield to court for patent violation and won, twice.. The -06 is one of those cartridges that, while good, I have zero interest in or use for. Ballistically it does nothing about 500 other cartridges do. I owned two, a Winchester Garand and a Remington 03-A3. Both went down the road decades ago....much to my financial chagrin but with no remorse for the cartridge not being in my stable. I have to agree with the 375 of 1912. If a fella looks at closely and with an open mind, the vast majority of both popular and successful cartridges can trace their roots to one of those two cartridges, the 8 X 57 or the 375 H&H.

No Pappy, I caught that ! I don't know if others did or not.

Jerry

I taught a fishing mod to our sixth-graders during a 3-day outdoors trip. I passed around various items as I explained their uses (took the hooks off lures). As I was escorting one group to their next session, two of the girls came up to me and told me, "David ate your strawberry Jelly Worm".

I've personally known a lot of guys who use a .300 mag for whitetail. I never thought of them as "silly". I've carried far more potent stuff than that for deer including the .375 H&H.

I don't believe I have it in for a cartridge.

I don't find using a 300 mag or whatever for deer silly in and of itself. What I may find silly is someone's reason for doing so.

I understand what you’re saying but...how about this.

I used my 300 mags deer hunting TO get more familiar with the rifle itself & its recoil while hunting AS I intended to use it for Elk Hunting. Someone else might use one in preparation for
hunting something like Moose.

I know you don’t need a 300 to kill deer but I wanted to be accustomed to the rifle for hunting
something else.

Jerry

Heck yeah, I’m as likely to use a 300 magnum for hunting as a 223 or a 7 Mashburn. They are all set up to hunt. I’ve even used my 375 Improved a bit. It works fine for deer as well... use whatever you feel like if it’s safe and lethal.

That's right, just like practicing for smaller African antelope, it came in handy too, I shot an Impala ram dead in the chest at just over 200 yards with a 400 Whelen chunking 400gr round nosed Wodleigh Weldcores at a leisurely 2255 fps, hit a Springbok and Duiker with that rifle too, I may have missed every damn one of them had I not practiced on deer and pigs and knew exactly where my bullets were going to land, we OWE that to the animals we hunt.

I wouldn't find your use of a 300 mag on deer simply "because you felt like it" silly. Using what you like is perfectly legit. Often I use my 700 Classic in 250 Savage because I feel good with it in my hands. No technical reason or logic necessary.

I was thinking about some things I hear at my camp, like "Use a 300 mag since he might be waaay out there at 250 yards." That is silly IMO.

Just like talking a newb into a Magnum. Little EXTREME !

Guys who think a creedmore is an elk rifle, and a ,243 a long range deer rifle..

So a 140 grain Partition started at 2700 fps wouldn't be elk suitable?

No comment.

No but I did love it when I killed a 160 class 8 point at 719 yards. He weighed 274 pounds on the scales.

Everybody is talking deer, moose, elk, hogs......what about the varmint guys?!?
.17 (times however many there are), .22 hornet, .218 bee, .221 fireball, .222 rem, .204, .223, 22-250,.220 swift, plus some I've forgotten, and THEN add the wildcats.
All to shoot woodchucks, yote dogs, oversized felines, and prairie dogs.
It's all a matter of enjoying the moment and if you can pass it on to your kids so much the better.

I remember Peter Capstick in one of my books made a strong case for using the .375 H&H for everything one hunts in Africa no matter how small. In light of that a .300 mag for whitetail doesn't seem so radical.

I'll add that my brother dropped my X-Bolt while hunting last season and b#tched up the walnut stock and it's still managed to stay my favorite.

if you own plenty land that the deer stay on sure a smaller cartridge works fine,but when your hunting trophy whitetail bucks on public land or a small tact of land where a buck could run away after the shot maybe to the next unknown guy and he shoots your wounded buck and claims your buck that just ain`t cool and i have had that happen . so now days i carry a bigger cartridge that knocks that buck down right away most of the time or it only goes a few yards and falls over from a good shot. yes some people can`t handle recoil and i understand but my son and myself use magnum rifles so we don`t have to track a buck on one good shot. i use 257 Weatherby Mag. but i would have no problem using a 300 Win. Mag. that is another great cartridge with plenty knock down power on bigger bucks as is a 375 H&H. where we hunt whitetail bucks by the Canadian border in Minnesota we may only get 1 shot at a big whitetail buck every year or 2 so give me a rifle cartridge with plenty power i will handle the recoil to knock that buck down.

Nope

So you think it should die?

I like them all......


Now if Glocks would die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ugly fokking things!

AGREE. The 40 SW hadn’t been out long enuff for me to know exactly what it
did.
I wanted the new Colt Delta Elite, 10 mm but I got my 6906 - SS 9mm at that time and now WISH I’d gotten the 40.


Jerry

No sir, it doesn't need to die, it's a good cartridge, has been marketed exceedingly well and has the added benefit of the most precise dimensions that modern machine work can provide and pretty impressive factory support in ammo. Put that same effort into any of a dozen pre-existing 6.5's and you get the same results, it isn't magic. Any ammo/firearms maker could have done it and probably at least thousands of individuals around the world have done so. The 6.5 CM is almost as good as some that pre-date it by 120 years and don't forget, the Europeans had that same 120 year head start on us reference the 6.5 caliber.. The old saying, "ignorance is bliss", has never been more evident than by those who regale the 6.5 Creedmoor with magical properties it does not have.

Just curious...I assume you are a fan of the 6.5x55? Are you using a Krag-Jorgensen, m94, or m96? Do you shoot factory ammo or reload?

Never figured you for a high risk kind'a guy. Suggesting 12" steel reinforced concrete for your bunker. They all gonna outlive all of us.

I'm glad you left the .25-20 SS off your list. I'd have to slap you around if you'd done that.

DD

What's silly to me is toting a big, heavy rifle when a small, light one does just as well. I also don't believe that the big ones necessarily kill any quicker, having had and seen well-hit deer travel after good hits with both. The path to DRTs is shot placement, if conditions permit. Maybe long-range shooting would be different, but I don't get, or seek to create, those opportunities here.

The notion of getting in practice on deer with one's elk rifle makes sense.

Pappy

Thanks for your response. We are on the same page.

I'd just point out that in 2008 when I bought my

70, Black Shadow in 300 WM.... it was the 'lightest' rifle I owned. Including the 26" bll.
EDIT: SECOND lightest rifle .. I already had the T 3 in 270. (sorry)

NOW my Tikka T 3 Lite SS 270

AND

Tikka T 3X Lite SS 7mm RM are my lightest rifles.


I have considered selling - even yesterday - the 300 but I CAN'T make myself get rid of it. Irrational !! I like it.


Jerry

................Why not? It is simple to understand......Capitalism, competition, product innovation in the marketplace. Another 270 from which to choose. More choices.

The 270 Win, 270 WSM, 270 Wby Mag should be the only three 270s from which to choose?

Every time a new cartridge is intro'd, there are always those who say "why another" or "who needs it" or "we already have enough" and on and on.

Same things were said right after the 375 Ruger came out....And look at the 375 Ruger today. So Hornady and Ruger should have just tabled and not intro'd the 375 Ruger thinking that the H&H, the 375 Wby and 378 Wby were satisfactory enough for the marketplace? Well as it turned out doing so would have been a huge mistake.

The rifle makers and the marketplace will determine the success or failure of the 27 Nosler.

For Nosler not to try though?

I’m guessing the OP was really asking about cartridges and not caliber. If not I can’t really think of any calibers to dump. In any event to each his own when it comes to cartridges. If you have it, like it, can provide ammo for it, go ahead and shoot it. Some handle magnum cartridges well, others don’t, only way to find out is to try them out. Truth be told magnum performance used to be a yardage gig and still somewhat is. With today’s heavy for caliber fast twist barrels, the non mags do not hurt for impact velocity and performance out at 350-400 yards and beyond in the field. Much easier on the human anatomy as well, you know shoulders, eyes and such. No judgements here regarding a persons ability or limitations.

Nothing irrational about acquiring and hanging on to something you like.

I say this as one who just purchased , wait for it....... a Ruger Old Army percussion revolver, just because!

SIL only had a .300WSM. Worked great on mulies, but he wanted another bolt rifle. He went with a 6.5 Creedmoor. Granted, the .270 Win is an excellent choice for deer (and elk), which is why I got a lefty .270 for Daughter #1.

SIL now has two 6.5 Creedmoor rifles and I added one last year. No regrets by wither of us that they aren’t .270 Win rifles. In fact, I think the 6.5 Creedmoor was a much better choice for both of us. In my case I already had a .243 Win, .257 Roberts, 6.5-06AI, .280 Rem, 7mm RM, .300BLK, .30-30, .308 Win, multiple .30-06, a .300WM and larger.

Don’t need a .270 Win, but I load for Daughter #1 and if I find one I can’t refuse…

No.

But over the years I've seen a bunch of hunters I thought were dipshits even though I never saw their ammo.

Agreed.

Among reasons for not doing so is if it is the only or the most suitable rifle they own, if they are hunting deer and larger on the same trip or if they are just getting ready for elk or moose or just wan to. Thinking it is 'needed', not so much..

For 20+ years the only big game legal bolt rifle I owned was my 7mm RM. It worked great on prairie dogs, coyotes, antelope, deer and elk. Now I have many more options, recognize that my .257 Roberts or .243 Win would have worked fine for almost every shot I've ever taken in the 38 years I've been big game hunting, and choose what to hunt with based on a whim of the moment more than anything else.

I'm going to say, the .410 shotgun shell.

I know there are skeet shooters love their .410 tubes, and Winchester 42 pumps, but for the regular guy why do we have it? Patchy patterns, and slugs are no good for deer. Maybe squirrel hunting, but that's it for me.

The 20 gauge is great for young and old. Handles birds (and squirrels) deer, "home defense", and even skeet.

.410 shotgun shell can go. I won't miss it.

I grew up having to shoot shotgun and slugs for deer. Nothing like learning to take recoil from an Ithaca 37 with one ounce slugs. I learned to flinch real well and took a lot of time away from hunting and shooting (Navy) to forget how I hated that. Probably why I prefer heavier rifles now, but still have to talk to myself every now and then. Range time is a good thing.



I have taken my 300WM hunting with me in SC but it only goes to the bean fields where it can be used out to 600+ yards. It's not my normal deer rifle for in the woods...that I leave to the 243 or 25-06.

As for calibers that should die, I don't think any should die...some will likely fad into the history books and some likely shouldn't have been brought to the light of day but new ideas and concepts can be a fun thing in life. If someone new to the sport wanted an obscure caliber I'd make sure they were educated that ammo/ availability/cost will be higher but wouldn't tell them not to buy it if their heart was set on it. That said I have a personal stigma on the '06 because of one man growing up. Everything was "my '06 can do that and more"! Could've told him you were hunting pheasants and he'd say the same thing. Turned out he was a drunk and his son's were no better (emptying the rifle at any deer that walked in) so they got replaced. I have no disdain for the cartridge, just don't plan on buying one.

For a caliber, no.

For cartridges? Well, it's more how some use them then the cartridge.


For people? Hell yeah!

For those who use modern versions of older cartridges and proclaim
them revolutionary.

For the old bastards who use the old version and look down on the new.

Basically people who measure their self worth on perception of their
possesions.

And all these people who wouldn't think of using something like a
30-30, but brag up a new round that barely duplicates it.

IDGAF if it is an AR, or your screwy laws won't let you shoot normal
rounds. If it is barely a 30-30, be honest.

"Well, now I have a semi that is similar to Pap's old 30-30. Except
it weighs 9 pounds, is awkward, and ugly as a mud fence".

Or, "This is a legal loophole round that is marginally equal to a 30-30.
If our rule makers weren't idiots I wouldn't touch this
with a 10 foot pole".

Additional info:

I have a few pix of it in < photopukeit >, blurrred.
Here are a couple of new pix of my Win 70 Black Shadow 300 WM
Nothing fancy, bone stock, I adjusted the trigger and scoped it.



That is a Swift (Nikon subsid) 4-12X40 AO. I've been buying Swift scopes since I learned of them in the late 80s.
No problems with ANY of them.



I don't know & haven't looked into who made the stock. It feels good and is stable. The ONLY time I have had to adjust the sight in,
was when I changed scopes in 2018. Remember I bought the rifle in 2008.
The rifle weighs 8# 7 oz all up ! BUT... it feels lighter due to its weight distribution. I like it.

This was the first 70 with 3 position safety I'd had in quite a few years. I got my 70 Swede in Dec, 2011.
I told my closest hunting pard that I didn't know how I'd adjust to using the 3 position safety. First deer up was on the FIRST
day I hunted it in 2008. Never had to EVEN think of the diff.

I hunted this rifle EXCLUSIVELY 2008, 2009, & 2010. I killed several WT each season with it.
IF I can kill deer out to 400 yds (which I did) I SURE can kill Elk with it.

I know of a poster here who said recently he was looking for a 300 WM. I seriously considered contacting him and offering to sell it to him >>>> Couldn't Do It.

I took a likin to the 300 WM in the 70s based upon looks of the cartridge and its performance.
I got a 77 Tanger in '78 I believe, my FIRST magnum rifle. I 'expected' a 300 to KICK....the Tanger didn't disappoint.

My next one was a B B R which was heavier and had a REAL recoil pad and recoil felt noticeably less.
Then I HAD a 700 BDL that a good hunting pard talked me out of. Its recoil also felt less.
This Black Shadow does NOT punish you to shoot it. ? Maybe the composite stock ?

I also like the moniker, "Black Shadow". The SHADOW knows!!

Jerry

Tangers beat the hell out of me too..........maybe it's just my jackass shaped head. Got a Supergrade M70 and a 700 BDL in .300, much more comfortable to shoot. I thought that I was the only one that had this problem.......

No Man U ain’t the only one. Grin

I’ve told of a particular Tanger I HAD... others said the same thing.

I’ve shot mags for years and up to 375 HH.

If you want the FULL affect of a Ruger Tanger get a
338 WM ! ! !

Worst kickin ‘thang’ I ever shot.

I have a BDL 8mm RM that is pleasant compared to the 338 Tanger.

Jerry

The M77 Mk II in .338 WM is just as bad. Beat me senseless and I have a .340 Weatherby and a 375 H&H that I dont mind.

Anyway the caliber that should die is the .43 Egyptian. It doesn't do anything the .43 Spanish doesn't do.

Ding you Gibby, now you got the 40 S&W stirred up in me AGAIN !

Jerry

Agreed. Who cares?

This is great internet fodder.

Checking back in to see if the 6.5x55 is dead yet.....


Viva la 25 Creedmoore!!!!!!!

338 Win Mag in Ruger tanger was my first rifle at 15 years old.

Shot 2 moose, a Dalls sheep, and a couple Sitka Blacktails with it.

That brings back memories.

This does bug me, especially among the hunters who I know are mainly hunting in the woods. However, I was there once when I really started getting into rifles and deer hunting a little over a decade ago. I've made the effort to learn about ballistics and the capabilities of different rounds. A lot of that has come through reloading. It seems that I know a lot of hunters who have hunted much longer than myself and killed many more deer than I have, that still think big magnums have some kind of magical killing power.

It all goes back to the small penis, big gun syndrome.

g

Just never been excited about a 29 caliber.

Only when things are oversold...

Like a guy on my trap team that shoots several nice benelli shotguns for target and hunting, but bought a savage apex in 6.5 creedmoor for elk hunting....

And here we go with liberal talking points.

I change the size of my gun inversely with the size of my penis.

When it's cold, I use a 300 Win Mag. When I'm horny, a .223.

But what if one is burdened with using a big crank and likes big rifles too? ; ]

Funny post and so true.

I have a .300 BLK AR and a Marlin .30-30. I love to hunt with the .30-30 (and all my levers from .22LR to .45-70) but no way I want to hunt with the .300BLK. Partly for the reasons you state, although I doubt it weighs 9 pounds, partly because the ergos suck and partly for other reasons. Give me a bolt or lever any day. For SHTF situations, my ARs rule.

Can’t think of a modern cartridge I would call ‘revolutionary’ rather than ‘evolutionary’. The last one I can think of was the Gyrojet rocket bullets from the 1960’s. They were also a colossal failure.

.303.

Is it alive ?


Jerry

Amen

The 6.5 creed needs to die

There are calibres which could well die without me being affected in the slightest. Quite a number of them really. However I'd actually be reluctant to push for any to be dropped because no doubt there'd be someone, somewhere, who'd be adversely affected. I have been affected by calibres becoming "no longer commercially available" myself, and it can be quite a PITA to chase brass (or modify it) and sometimes bullets for these orphans.

Of course it is in the interests of the big makers to keep coming out with new calibres and at the same time to render obsolete the less popular ones. That way they can expect that you'll just have to keep buying new guns, dies etc. I am glad that there are specialists who make some of the less-common stuff, to keep the older and perhaps more obscure guns going. .

you're more right than wrong on that one....

See WHAT you did Gibby ! !




Actually I ought to THANK you. I had not 'seriously' looked for one but I found this LIKE NEW 40 S W with box, owners manual, Xtra mag for a Real Good Price --- MONDAY. Happy Face

Jerry

I catch a lot of grief over my belief that the 30-30 is not the deer-killing cartridge so many claim it to be. Decent with a 150 grain bullet but the 170 grain bullets have a nasty habit of not opening up. Every deer season I find one in the woods that was shot during a drive by one of the locals. They don't see it fall so they assume another one missed. The Model 94 or Marlin 336 is the only thing keeping the 30-30 around today.
Someone will come on here and tell me how they dropped a deer in its tracks at 200 yards with a 30-30. But I believe it to be the exception and not the rule.

I still hunt with my Sharps 50-70 carbine. It does not drop deer in their tracks, but I know that they will run a few yards before falling over. So I don't hunt with it when there is a lot of pressure in the woods that would cause the deer to run farther. Calm, undisturbed deer are a lot easier to kill.

People leave deer in the woods that have been shot with every cartridge known to man. Most of the deer I've shot in my day fell to a .30-30 Model 94 Trapper. My go to load used 170 gr Hornady RN. None were left in the woods. The cartridge isn't responsible for poor shooting skills.

I get tired of listening to all the butt hurt Swede owning creedmoor bashers. I have several times thought about a Swede, but the creed made a lot more sense to me, as I did not own anything in 6.5 yet. Most rifles chambered in creed are twisted properly to shoot the high BC bullets, not so with the Swede. The creed fits nicely in a short action, not so with the Swede. You can find a creed chambered in almost any bolt action rifle configuration, and also in the AR10 platform. Swede, not. There are several dozen configurations of inexpensive factory ammo available almost anywhere ammo is for sale, the swede? nope. As Mule Deer has pointed out on numerous occasions, the chamber dimensions on Swede rifles is all over the place, so it is difficult for safe factory ammo to be manufactured to fit all Swede chambers. True, a properly twisted Swede will equal or possibly slightly exceed the velocity of the creed, but the difference will likely only be detectable with a chronograph. If I had already owned a Swede I probably would not have built the creed I own right now. I like the creed alot, is it the best thing to come down the pike since Oroville Redenbacher microwave popcorn? Probably not. But to someone who doesn't handload, or is buying their kid a first rifle, it in my opinion makes whole lot more sense than a Swede. Well there you have it, a few things the 6.5 creedmoor does that the 6.5x55 has not done for a century.

In the end, it always boils down to, "What I have is better than what you have".

No cartridge deserves to or should become obsolete if anyone wants to shoot it. To each their own.

And/or it’s a matter jealousy. “Yours” CANT be better than mine !

I like what I like. It doesn’t matter what anyone/everyone else likes.
I even like & use the 270 Win

As Yogi used to say, “ it’s better than the average... “


Jerry

ps: there is more than 1 rifle I will NOT own.

There is more than 1 cartridge I will not be caught using, period.

Everyone has the same PRIVILEGE ! !

Jerry