Every time someone tells me that they have a 280AI, I find myself wondering why they didn’t just go with the 7mm Rem Mag. What am I missing here? Are there substantial advantages to the 280AI?

7 mag guys don't get to participate in virtue signaling.

The primary advantage is the 280 AI requires at least 3 more beers to explain to your audience.

In some cases you can end up with a lighter rifle ie Kimber Montana 84L vs 8400 and Weatherby 6 lug vs 9 lug actions. Effect on game with the same bullet will be exactly the same.

Burn less powder?

Burn more gas finding 280 cases

Create confusion regarding headspace on the old vs. SAAMI chambering.

Does the 7mm Rem Mag feed better? The 280AI looks like the angle of the neck has more potential to hang.

Magazine capacity. My Model 70 in 7mm mag holds 3 and one in the chamber. The same rifle chambered for 280ai would hold 5+1.

One more in the mag. But regardless of the BS the 280AI cannot touch the 7 when loaded to like pressures.

GreggH

It worked with my pre 64 Model 70 bolt face, the brass lasts a long time and gosh, it's cool.

This should clear it up (from the Nosler Forum).

The 280 Ackley Improved – which version do I have, and is it ok to shoot with factory ammo?

There have been many variations of “improved” cartridges over the years, and even several different flavors within the “Ackley” cartridges. The 280 is certainly no exception. When the 280 Ackley Improved was developed and standardized through the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute (SAAMI) by Nosler®, the decision was made to honor Mr. Ackley’s original design intent by headspacing the cartridge such that standard 280 Remington ammunition would chamber with slight (.003”/.004”) crush at the shoulder/neck intersection and fire form into the Ackley chamber without the need to seat the bullet into the rifling. In fact, Mr. Ackley headspaced his “improved” cartridges by simply grinding a standard “go” headspace gage for the parent cartridge back by 0.004” and using it to headspace the new version. This is also the way that many large custom gun shops have chambered the 280 Ackley for almost 40 years. In order to achieve this, any standard 280 Remington firearm being opened up to the Ackley must have the barrel set back one turn prior to reaming the chamber – simply improving the standard chamber without doing so will yield excessive headspace, even though this was common practice for many gun makers over the years as well. Based on this design, the 280 Ackley Improved was accepted by SAAMI in February of 2008 and has enjoyed tremendous success ever since.

Occasionally, a rifle that was “improved” by simply reaming the chamber without first setting the barrel back will turn up and result in questions about its compatibility with factory ammunition. Unbeknownst to their owner, most of these guns have headspace dimensions of between 0.010” and 0.015” greater than the SAAMI version of the 280 Ackley Improved. These rifles are perfectly functional so long as they are used with ammunition that has been properly formed and sized to fit their chambers. If the customer wishes to use their rifle with modern SAAMI-compliant 280 Ackley ammunition, it must be re-headspaced to properly chamber the ammunition.



So, rifles that were PROPERLY chambered with 0.004"crush fit on the parent case can use the SAAMI ammo with no headspace problems.

Mine doesn't complain
110. 3597 fps
139. 3258 fps
145. 3135 fps
No belt or suspenders needed

Try this new thing.........it's called the internet

That's pretty funny!

That's a difference but is it important for a hunting rifle? Ho often have you needed 4 shots for big game, let alone 6?

Next question is this: What will a .280AI do that a .280 Rem won't do as well?

When I purchased my .280 Rem I actually made a conscious decision that it wouldn't be a .280AI. The .280 burns less powder, has a it gentler recoil and still gets the job done at ranges where I've taken shots. Heck, I don't even load it to top .280 velocities.

But if I need more oomph, I do have a 7mm RM.

So we have:

1. Easier to convert to 280AI from a standard bolt face
2. Increased magazine capacity for the 280AI
3. It burns less powder

Very funny, I try to buy locally when I can.

As someone with a standard 280, I'd counter with: what are you hunting with a 7mag that a 280 won't kill just as well?

Thats easy....

....look up what BobinNH has to say about this.

He cleared up and summed up ALL this a LONG TIME AGO.

Best

Heavy

I’m a 7 mag guy, but I bet they both kill animals just fine!

I'm mostly asking the folks who responded here snarkily about the 7 mag vs. 280AI... because you could throw a lot of the same snark at the 7 mag from the standard 280 perspective. It doesn't matter to me what anyone shoots, and the forum is made for debating. But just own it. Virtue signaling by way of calling out others for virtue signaling is just more of the same to me.

I cannot speak for other respondents, but I was genuinely curious about why you would choose a 280AI instead of a 7 Mag. In my mind, the 280AI has a coolness factor over the 7 Mag, but that seems to be about it. I have never shot a 280AI, but I did hunt with a 7 Mag for about six deer seasons. What I determined from those years was that a 7mm-08 would have been a better selection for me. Anyway, thanks for any insights one way or the other regarding benefits of the 280AI.

Mike, I haven't commented because I have NO experience with the 280 AI.

However, Gun Writers with experience with both HAVE said that the
" A Is" achieve their claims with HI pressure.

Me, I'm very SATISFIED with the 7 RM at safe operating pressures SO I don't argue.


Jerry

Damn, that cracked me up and so true as well.

The answer is simple...NOTHING!

LIES!!!!!!!

JS 🤷🏻‍♂️

They simply don't need a 7RM. More powder, more recoil, but not a 'more dead' animal on the ground.


You could play that game with anything. If they got a 7RM, why didn't they just go with the 7RUM?

If they got a 7..., why didn't they just go with the 300WM?

If they got a 300WM, why didn't they just go with the 300RUM?

Exactly!!!

Is the 280AI the equal of the 7RM . . . no, but it's real close.

How about the 280 vs the 280AI . . . same answer.

7x57 vs 280?

7-08 vs 7x57?

But then you can flip the question around and do it all again . . . What can a 7mm Rem Mag do that a 280AI cannot?

This schitt gets boring.

I totally get what the OP is saying. What’s the need for the 280AI when the 7RM and 280 were both already there. Just like what was the need for the 6.5 CM when the 25-06, the 257’s, 260, 270, 7m-08 were all already there. What’s the need for a 300RUM when there was already 300WM and 300 Roy. None of these kill an animal any more dead than the other, just seems like people never stop trying to reinvent the wheel. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Because we are rifle loonies, and variety is the spice of life !
I have all 3 of these spoken in comparison, sorta, and a 7-08.
My standard 280 is a 7x64, so it qualifies.
I had a 280ai built because they look cool. No more, no less.
Could my 7x64 do the same, most likely.
Will the 7-08, kill any less at reasonable distances. Most likely not.
But, will the 7mm Rem Mag out perform the form.
You betcha it will, but at a price of more noise, and more recoil.
Is it significant ?
No. I dont think so, but I like them all.
I am a looney, therefore, I AM.....
Oh, and a fire formed, nickle plated, 280AI..

Best ever use of an '06 case

I graduated college in 1982, and being an anal engineering type spent the entire span of my senior year communicating with the top riflesmiths, gunwriters, ballisticians, bullet makers, powder suppliers of the time. The question was: What chambering should I adopt to hunt the world, based on effectiveness, accuracy, availability, etc...

Funny thing...the 7mm Rem Mag came out on top by a landslide...including recommendations by some gunwriters that would totally surprise a bunch of readers here.

The main recommendation was based on the claim that MANY loads/bullet weights, handloads and factory, shot to the same POI in close,, and I have found that to be true.

The second was that it was an extremely popular round, and ammo could be found pretty much anywhere worldwide. Also true.

I bought a pair of Sako Lightweight A5's and over the next 30 years proceeded to take 47 species with the round in my work travels.

Upon selling my company and retiring I also used a Jarrett .280AI, a John Lewis .280, several 7mm-08's, and was successful with all simply by asking myself "how would this shot compare if I was using my 7 Mag?"

Made it easy.

They all work to the limits of their ability to expand a good bullet.

BUT...if you are traveling, the 7 Rem Mag is available in a wider range of good bullets over the counter, that DO tend to shoot to a common point of impact, and is the logical choice.

The answer IS simple ........

Some guys like to have cooler rifles than the other duds on the interweb. That's why the 30-06, 270 and other very good classic chamberings are out of vogue here.

I like all of them. The 280AI comes really close to the 7RM until you go over about 168 grains in weight, then the 7RM shines. This works well for me as my 280AI has a 1-10 twist and my 7RM has a 1-9 twist which can handle the 180s and some 190s.

They both are similar in chambering a round, a little more noisy than a case like the H&H and some other beltless rounds. One of the main advantages of the 280 AI is very little case trimming is needed, less than the 7RM and 280. The brass seems to last longer too. In a custom the weight can be almost the same and a drop or canoe magazine can give you an extra round in the 7RM not that it is needed. My 280 AI has 2 inches more barrel and a recessed 11 degree crown. This and the lighter charges make the 280AI noticeably quieter than my 7RM. Recoil is noticeably less with the 280's especially if comparing the heavy weights in a 7RM to a lighter bullet in the 280. The 7RM in no way is obsolete.

These two have more in common than differences. Ammo availability is the only item that vastly favors the 7RM.

Hair splitting conversation, both are excellent game cartridges. One requires a bit more fuss to start with and the need to always have ammo close to the pocket when traveling.

The rifle I wanted was not available in 7mm Rem Mag. I get your point, but in a Kimber, to go from .280AI to 7mm Rem Mag means switching from the 84L to the 8400 action which comes with a significant increase in weight and an increase from 24" to 26" of barrel. The Kimber is light enough in .280AI to be borderline abusive to my eyebrow. Adding 10 grains or more powder to achieve less than 50 fps velocity gain makes things even worse.

If I wanted a different rifle .. 700, Win 70, MRC .. I could see the balance going the other way. In fact, all things being equal, I'd have rather had the 7mm mag, but all things were not equal and the .280AI was a better choice .. in a Kimber.

Tom

The 7 RM is superior ballistically if you want to split hairs but in the field performance is practically the same...IMO the 280Ai is mostly for guy's who want the "cool factor" that he is a real rifleman that reloads his own ammo....(yeah i had a 280Ai myself for a short time 😂) .......Hb

I’m willing to bet 99% of the guys here wouldn’t be able to effectively utilize the extra 200fps that you’ll get from a 7mm rem mag over a 280ai in the first place. If you feel handi-capped using a 280 over using a 7mm rem mag then I don’t think the cartridge is the problem.

What does a 30-06 do that a 300 win mag can’t do?

PS,

I own all three and most times choose to use the 280rem for hunting big game.

Less powder, standard BF, and mag capacity won't help in BFE trying to buy a box of ammo if needed. Isn't a 270 good enough? wink wink.

Factory 280AI ammo is available.

But the 280AI has the cool factor for sure. Such a sexy looking round.

Even so, I'd bet a lot of guys are choosing it for the platform, like T O M stated:




There aren't many off the shelf 5-3/4 lb rifles chambered in 7RM that I can think of (Cooper M92 comes to mind, but may be others).

And apparently to please the long range crowd, most manufacturers are putting 26" barrels on the 7RM now (can't like that). But then they twist them wrong for the high BC bullets

Owning a 280Ai for the platform is a good point Whelen 👍...I love the 84L platform, its my favorite rifle (at the moment 😁) and For a time I had Kimber 84L rifles chambered in 280Ai along with a couple 30-06's until I thinned the herd a little and now I just own one 84L Subalpine 30-06, for Me the 30-06 is not as "cool" but a much more practical cartridge....Hb

Concur on the 84L...it is a fine platform.

Absolutely agree. The 30-06 is just plain easy.

And I really overlooked a key feature of the 84L/84M that I know is important to some (you). It's the only CRF action ultralight.

I love the Cooper M92 Backcountry, but they aren't CRF.

I can buy 7mm mag ammo anywhere here in Texas.

Small, two gas pump stations along the highway, will have .223 .243 .22-250 .308 .270 .3006 .30-30 7mm mag 300 win ...usually that is all you will ever run across....

Asking if they have any 280 or worse 280 AI will normally get you a small chuckle and then a gentle suggestion to "look in the next big town"...........I have personally witnessed this, but they were asking for.... 7mm 08....second time was for 300 wsm...

Stupid crap happens...ammo gets wet..lost..forgotten...

So what can it do?......make you keep driving... and make you start thinking hard about that "great deal at the gun store" or "bought it off a buddy" purchase.......uh huh...

I have two rifles (actually more) so the backup rifle is always a plain-jane chambering.

Haven't needed it yet, but I'll keep taking it along just in case.


And FWIW, you are more likely to pay a premium for a unique chambering than you are to get a deal.

👍

I get that every once in a blue moon someone forgets ammo or potentially loses it via air travel. Or at least I get the idea of it, because I can't imagine actually doing it. But seriously... that's a reason not to own a chambering? Who are these anecdotal people who always need to buy ammo at some tumbleweed town gas station whenever ballistics don't make a strong enough case? And why are so many of us apparently wanting to traverse bear country with guys who can't even remember cartridges?

Seems like a post it note and a backup rifle in 30-30 or 06 mitigate the concern entirely... long live the 280.

Ford-chevy-dodge

I have both. I more easily keep my scope on target with a shot with the 280AI. I sometimes lose the sight picture with a shot with the 7mag. Similar rifles and techniques. Must be recoil

I'm one of those 'anecdotal' people. Around 2004 (+/' a couple years) I was taking two rifles elk hunting. At the last minute I changed my mind on one of them and took another instead. I had already packed the ammo and, because i got interrupted, I forgot to swap the ammo as well. Fortunately I had the correct ammo for the other rifle.


My .280 is a plane-jane Remington but it gets the job done and I like the low recoil. I don't even push it to max velocities. It's a keeper.