Hi all. I'm new here. I've been a long time lurker but this is my first post. I'm from MN. Just started hunting deer last year and bought my first centerfire rifle about 6 months ago. It's a Winchester M70 Featherweight with a stainless barrel chambered in .308. I did a bedding job on it by following a guide by GunBlue490 on youtube because I was getting decent groups with several types of ammo, but not great (nothing sub MOA). The bedding job went well as far as I could tell. I work with epoxies professionally, so I felt confident that I could do the work in a competent manner, and the results look great.

My issue now, though, is that I'm experiencing strange groups at the range, where I'll put two shots very close together and the third will be 2-3 inches away. I have several groups where that "flyer" is in the same direction about the same distance, but sometimes it goes back and forth, 2 here and 2 there, but there is a definite disconnect between what I'm seeing in the scope and what I'm seeing on the target. I'm a lifelong shooter and I have pretty solid trigger control, and I've shot enough with this setup to confidently say there is a pattern here that exists independently of my human error. Now the other relevant bit of info is that I'm shooting primarily solid copper bullets. The ammo that I'm seeing these groups with is Barnes VOR-TX 150g TTSX. I've shot a lot of this, as well as the 130g ammo of the same variety.

My question is this: should I suspect my bedding job is the culprit, or is it more likely to be copper fouling that I need to use a copper solvent on? Until now I've only used standard mineral spirit based cleaners like no.9 (as per the advice of GunBlue490 again, who claims solvents are a bad idea and that the copper only smooths the bore and doesn't require solvent removal).

Thanks for your input. Let me know if I've left out any necessary info.


WW


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Pencil barrels on hunting rifles change shape as they heat up with continued shots. Leave yourself five minutes between shots and your groups will stabilize.

Make that the barrel is free of any wood contact.
Clean the bore with something that removes copper. I start with Butchs then go to Sweets.
Made sure your action screws are at the proper tension.

Could be scope or mounts, but I believe that is an overused excuse.

Then space your shots.

What scope and scope mounting setup are you using?

Barnes can certainly foul barrels quickly. My 25-06 (both) are good for about 25 shots at 3600fps before the groups open up like clockwork, they then need to be cleaned with Sweets copper remover. Your groups look like the rifle wants to shoot, I think it is possible that you may not be in the sweet spot of cartridge overall length that your rifle may like. Sometimes with Barnes jumping them to the lands more will tighten those right up. That was my experience with Barnes 80grn TTSX with my 25-06's. Two touching and one away..........then finding the correct OAL and the groups were almost all touching if not one ragged hole. That can be said for standard cup and core bullets too, the cartridge OAL can be a major factor.

Prezactlty! Hint.

Though I rather enjoy Lying/CLUELESS Brokedick Pieces Of Fhuqking Schit,extolling a stopwatch "cure". Hint. LAUGHING!

1000 words,germane,to said platform and mounts/glass/ring spacing ain't fhuqking "flukes". Hint.



Rifles talk...yet nobody listens. Never been difficult to cypher,who shoots and who don't. Hint.

Bless The Windowlickers for doing their best,with what incredibly fhuqking little they "have" to "work" with.

Hint.

Laughing!.................

I think he’s shooting factory fodder. Playin’ with OAL would be out.

First thing I'd check is all fasteners; action screws, scope base screws, ring bolts, and ring cap screws. After that, I'd do a tracking and return to zero test on the scope. If none of that reveals anything, there's more to look at.

As stated above, scope mounting and or scope are likely culprits.

John

I am using a Vortex Razor HD LH 1.5-8x with Talley low one-piece mounts. I'll double check that everything is nice and tight. I am shooting factory ammo but I like the OAL theory. My friend reloads; maybe we can play around with that in the future.

The frustrating thing is that the rifle does really seem to want to shoot these loads well. I have had a few 1/2" groups at 100 and a whole lot of 2 shots touching at 100, but there is a disconcerting randomness to when it throws the "flyer" shots. I know it may seem like human error but sometimes you just know where you should hit when you pull the trigger because you had a clear, steady sight picture and your trigger pull was smooth, and when that shot ends up 3" away from where you know you should have hit, you just know something is wrong.

The guys that mentioned action, rings and base screws gave you good advice. Start there for sure. I know what you mean about knowing you shot a good group and seeing one 2 1/2 inches away. Your groups looked EXACTLY like mine did during my load testing and before I found the correct OAL for a particular bullet with a particular powder. Don't lose hope, your rifle wants to shoot.

There should be a list of things to check, probably already in one of the Gun Gack books. I will mount the scope on another rifle or use a known scope to re-test. I suspect sometimes when I have done this I corrected an unknown mounting issue when making the swap, especially if I put the original scope back on and the problem is resolved.

If nothing is loose (or overly tight) and there is no barrel contact then it gets more difficult to diagnose. How is the crown on the barrel?

Also try different ammunition just to eliminate another variable. How many rounds have you fired? I have had some barrels start shooting better after 100 or more rounds and cleaning.

I'd try a known good scope before I changed much else other than checking the mounts. 3" is a long way for a flyer from an otherwise sound rifle.

Yeah, its a hell of a long way. If hes using a leupold or vortex, id pull it off throw it away and try a "proven" good rifle scope on it. Id also pull the mounts and rings and inspect them. Degrease everything, apply a little blue loctite to the base screws. Making damn sure the forward most screw isnt too long. I also dont know how the op glass bedded the rifle. Not knowing his abilities, id pull the dial indicator out and check to be sure the receiver isnt being stressed when the action screws are tightened down. You'd be surprised how a stressed receiver will affect groups. Id also be sure the barrel is freefloated all the way to the front face of the receiver. I hate to laugh about the suggestions of waiting for 5 minutes between shots. The featherweight contour really isnt that skinny, and all the Featherweights ive owned shoot sub moa 3 shot, moa 5 shot and sub 1.5 moa 10 shot groups without letting the barrel cool between shots. I have other rifles with skinnier barrels that shoot far better.. unless the barrel has residual stresses or is absolute garbage, it should shoot well without all the mumbo jumbo.

First guess would be bases or mounts.
Possible barrel heat or pressure point. But that is usually vertical stringing in my personal experience.
A knick in the crown is easy to check for. But this would seem to cause even more erratic grouping.

Improper charge weight can cause groups like that. I start .050 of the lands and adjust charge weight until groups tighten up. ( only with Barnes bullets ) As mentioned, seating depth does the same as well.Not uncommon to see this with a Barnes x bullet.

Just a suggestion but I usually start with a bullet that I know is easy to get shooting. The Barnes x is not difficult but not as easy as others. If the rifle won’t shoot a game king or ballistic tip there is something wrong with the rifle. These are easy to get shooting well generally.

After checking all the screws, clean the barrel.


I'd bet you'll be mining copper for days.

Welcome to the Fire. I want to make sure I am correctly interpreting your original post, because it seems like there is such an obvious question, which nobody has asked you, that I fear I may have missed something.
That said, as I read your OP, the rifle now shoots worse than it did before you did the bedding job. It did not shoot GREAT before, but it was not throwing the weird fliers like it is now.
Is this correct?
I think that's important to clearly establish before the respondents can help.

Cheers,
Rex

Thanks for your thoughts guys. I'll look into your suggestions. I don't have another rifle or scope handy, but I'll double check the screws on the bases, rings and action. I think I'll try a copper solvent in the barrel before I think about re-doing the bedding job. I bought some Federal Gold Medal ammo to try out as well. Maybe I'll do the solvent first and then try the Gold Medal ammo. If it still acts funny I will probably try re-bedding it. Oh and I'll check the crown as well.

Rex this is a great question and I believe the answer is yes, but I'm not sure because I accidentally deleted the photos of my pre-bedding range trips. It was a terrible mistake; I thought my google photos account had them backed up already (it showed them in the app), so I deleted them off my phone and then found that they were not actually uploaded and were therefore lost. I think I would remember if I'd had flyers like this before, but then again, I had never tested it as carefully before as I did on the last couple trips to the range that resulted in the photos I linked to.

So are you saying it is shooting the same ammo worse than before you bedded the rifle?

I just went and watched the video to which you referred. The rifle he is bedding is very unlike your model 70 FWT, and unless you had some extra clues on how to do a rifle like yours it is likely following his techniques might induce problems.
Did you place a couple layers of masking tape on the front, bottom, and sides of your recoil lug, and relive the wood around these points, so that after your epoxy cured you had perfect contact on the bottom of the action and the back of the recoil lug, and just a tiny bit of clearance on the sides, bottom, and front of the lug? The bottom is particularly important.
Did you float the whole barrel or provide some support for the first inch or more? I used to always provide support but lately have learned that with a rifle like your M70, where the front action screw is well aft of the recoil lug, no support forward of the receiver may be required, and I am in the process of testing this with mine. Rifles like Mausers and Springfields where the front screw goes into the recoil lug apparently are better served with an inch or two of support beyond the receiver.

Standing by,
Rex

If you are getting two good shots and then a flyer, then cool the rifle down and it repeats, the two good shots then a flyer. I believe the problem is your barrel is heating up and walking. As was mentioned earlier, try waiting five minutes between shots and see what happens. You probably did a good job bedding so at some point you might try putting some upward pressure on the barrel by inserting something between the barrel and forearm tip.(paper, cardboard etc.)

Rex, I did put a layer of tape on the front of the lug but not the bottom. The barrel came free-floated by Winchester and it remains so after I bedded it. my bedding job looks almost exactly like what came from Winchester except without the large bubbles that were in the factory job. I'd say the first 3/4" of the barrel in front of the reciver are supported by the bedding compound. Sounds to me, though, like I may have made a critical error by not putting tape on the bottom of the lug(?).

Thanks for your help.

Remove the bedding under the barrel. Obviously rex didnt read my earlier post. There are ways to check your bedding job and make sure your receiver isn't stressed/torqued. I dont know how some of these guys' fwt rifles shoot, but i do know how mine do. It would be wise to read through the posts of members that are known for having extremely accurate model 70's. Some of us aren't just guessing. Hint.

bsa, Sorry if I missed something I shouldn't have in your post. I will indeed study it more. So I understand, are you and advocate of the bottom of the recoil lug bearing some of the weight when the front screw is torqued down, or do you relive the area underneath the lug itself so that all the down force is on the flat of the recoil lug under the action, and the round part of the receiver directly in front of the lug?
I much appreciate your expertise and appreciate the input.

Thanks,
Rex

I think your on the right track in looking at the bedding. Sorry to say but there is a lot more bad bedding jobs than good. Removing the material supporting the first couple of inches of barrel I would do first. Also make sure your screw holes are a bit larger than the action screws. A rat tail file or chain saw file is perfect for this.

I’ve seen where M70’s have preferred a single contact point for recoil. In other words, they didn’t like the area under the tang acting as a mini-recoil lug. If you bedded this area, I would remove some material that would normally absorb the backward thrust as the sides of the stock where the mag well is will flex under recoil.

If that doesn’t fix, remove a very thin layer of material under the lug. I’ve seen some not care about this, while others preferred that the only bottom contact point be the flat surface behind the lug. Keep tinkering you will figure it out and learn a lot in the process.

Replace the tally’s with steel bases and mounts before you start grubbing out the bedding job...... Then run a tracking test on your glass.

Good post!

I would remove some bedding under the bottom of the recoil lug. Just enough to have clearance. A small chisel or even a screw driver used as a scraper would be enough. This in addition to the other checks.

It was mentioned but I’ll mention it again. Along with the other advice given, make sure the barrel is clean. I’ve found the the Barnes t shock or lrx shoot best with a clean bore as well.

It’s easy to diagnose a bedding problem. Its unlikely you have a mag base and clock gauge but the tip of your finger can tell you a lot. Loosen and tighten the front action screw while holding your finger in the crook between where the fore stock ends and the barrel extends beyond. You are trying to detect movement between the stock and barrel when you loosen the action screws. ( one at a time )

Of no movement is detected, your bedding is good. If movement is detected , the bedding needs improving.

Is the third shot always the flyer?

The Cure is too fhuqking easy and too fhuqking obvious,but it's funnier than fhuqk to watch these Droolers,do their best. Hint.

Funny schit and I mean fhuqking FUNNY!

Bless their hearts for trying though.

Hint.

Laughing!...............

Help the man out, Big Stick. Be the hero.

Already did...

Well yeah, but not in English 😀

Clean the damned bore.
Relieve the front,sides and bottom of the lug.
Make sure the bolt is not touching the stock when closed.
Make sure the box magazine has a little wiggle when in place.
Check all mounting screws.
Shoot it again and let us know.

Salvage,

Please cite any/all words I've used,that were "too big" or "too Technical" for you to follow and I'll happily grant you the opportunity,to extoill your Dumbfhuqktitude even more. Hint. Congratulations?!?

You'd do well to read thangs multiple times,take notes and apply same. Hint.

Bless your heart,for doing your best.

Hint.

Laughing!.............







bitchigainchodeswill,

You are in soooooooooo fhuqking far over your pointy head and crossed-eyes,that it's simply a fhuqking shame,that you haven't the (3) IQ Points requisite,to savvy same. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Gals with your versions of "knowledge","experience" and "results",will ALWAYS be best served by asking questions,rather than giving "answers". Not that I don't enjoy the innate HILARITY of a Jerry Lewis Telethon...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Laughing!

PM an addy and I'll shoot you $20,to procure a video of you trying to put water into your own glass. Thanks in advance,for the unequalled laughs! Hint.

Bless your heart,for thinking you "have" a clue.

Hint.

LAUGHING!....................

The OP is new to this game. I believe he is hoping to find a few tweaks he can do himself to
get a reasonably affordable hunting rifle to perform consistently at minute of deer or less.

So hopefully some of the common sense and useful things suggested here will help him along.

Of course both the OP, myself and some others identified here should just Stick around and be amazed at what we find at
the foot end of the bell curve. IF we can remotely understand the dialect.
We should do is just start out by spending a pile of money up front and then let the world know how great we are
and how pathetic the rest of the world is.

WallyWhitetail
Just do the common sense things suggested here before going off the deep end. It ain't rocket science or magic.

Since you have to remove your scope to check the ring mounting screws, stand the scope on a hand mirror on the lowest magnification and look into the scope. You will see two reticles. Adjust the scope reticle until you see one imposed over the other. Hold the rear of the scope in one hand and whack it into the open palm of your other hand and check the reticle alignment with the mirror. Check it more than once if the reticle didn't move. If the reticle did move, recenter the reticle and see if it moves again. If the reticle moved your scope is bad.

It could be lots of things, and you've gotten good advice on this thread. I would:
1. Clean the bore. There are many threads here about the best ways to do that. Not sure how YouTube guy formed his opinion, but he’d be laughed out of any group of serious precision shooters for suggesting that it's OK to ignore copper fouling.
2. There’s way more to mounting a scope than “nice and tight.” In fact, being too tight can cause major issues and damage your scope. Mount your scope as described here https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13980311/1
3. Torque the action screws to the recommended tension and double check that the barrel is free floated.
4. Try some different loads.

I’d start to look at the bedding IF none of those help.

And definitely keep us posted as to how things go.


Okie John

Old habits die hard. Is it about time for another troll rodeo?

I'd agree with relieving the bedding under the recoil lug. If there is no clearance, when you tighten down the action screws, all the pressure could be applied right to the bottom of the lug.


Clean the barrel. Do some research on cleaning copper fouling. Lots of products out there aren't worth buying. Use a light in the bore.

I can't find "fhuqk" anywhere in my Funk and Wagnalls. Hint....I'm laughing too. Or is it "glaughking?" Wallywhitetail, I apologize for making this reply on your previous post.

If the bedding was done properly with even contact around the entire front of the receiver, then I wouldn't worry about relieving the bottom of the recoil lug.

I would certainly start with the easy stuff like checking to make sure fasteners aren't loose, but beyond that I would invest in a SWFA SS 10x to use as a backup scope, as well as another set of mounts. I've seen jumping POI numerous times due to a scope that wasn't holding zero properly, and swapping a known-good scope onto the rifle revealed the problem immediately. Of course I've also seen bad bedding, loose screws, etc, cause a shifting POI, but a bad scope or mount system is by far the most common cause, IME.

[bleep] this rifle and go buy a Tikka!

There is an easy way to check the bedding. Loosen the front and rear action screws. Now torque the front screw, then tighten the rear screw. The rear screw should go from loose to tight in about 1/4 turn. In other words, it should turn freely then suddenly stop. If it takes a turn or more to come up tight after you begin feeling some turning resistance, your bedding is not right. Now reverse the process and torque the rear screw first and see how the front screw tightens. It should go from loose to tight in 1/4 turn.
If the above checks out and you haven't messed up the recoil lug mortise and your barrel is free floated you can pretty much eliminate bedding as the issue and start looking at optics/mounts.

Could it be the barrel requires a bit of pressure near the end of the fore arm. Some rifles shoot better with a bit of pressure. It would be easy to check with a bit of paper or thin cardboard like a matchbook at the front swivel mount area.

Trybone,

No need to quantify yet again,that besides being a Brokedick CLUELESS Fhuqk,that you just also "happen" to be a Thieving Piece Of Fhuqking Schit...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?



How come all of the GOOD pics in "your" album,were shot by me? Hint. LAUGHING!

In fairness,I've never even seen a Winchester and this is all "new" to me. Hint.

LAUGHING!



Bless your heart,for doing your best,with what incredibly fhuqking little you "have" to "work" with.

Hint.

LAUGHING!...............







You CLUELESS Drooling Fhuqktards are a hoot! Hint.

Wow +P++!

Laughing!..................

Do yourself a favor. Before doing anything else, shoot it again but allow the barrel to cool down between shots. If it shoots well then the problem is uneven stresses in the barrel material which when the barrel gets hot it will throw the later shot. Loose screws usually will give you an open group with no set pattern. If you are getting the first two shots good and the third opens up it is probably due to heat in the barrel. Run a couple of test to prove it out. If you are still getting your two good and the third opening up putting some upward pressure at the forearm by inserting pieces of a business card between the barrel stock at the forearm help to correct it. The M70 Featherweight has always been very touchy.

This right here is what I have been doing for years with my M77 Ruger. It has a pencil thin barrel.. Don’t get the barrel hot at all....

Tell us about how your sexual orientation affects your rifle paint jobs, you gay [bleep]

Don't feed the trolls. Since I put Little Dick on ignore this forum has become much more enjoyable.

Blacktailer, my friend, you might want to put me on ignore for a while too. I'm going to unmercifully harass that [bleep]. Every time he posts, I'm going to ridicule him. I will not stop until he leaves.

Montana 223, bedded tight with no relief around the lug, SS 6X in steel Burris Sig Z-Rings and all fasteners torqued with Loc-tite...I would say the Montana has a pencil barrel but heat didn't seem to be a problem.

Without reading all the other replies, I would say possibly.

I would start out with the simple and cheap. Dismount your scope, pull the bases off of the action, and clean everything really thoroughly, then reinstall the scope.

Change ammo. Monolithic bullets like Barnes can be fussy. I've owned over 200 rifles in my life and worked with them extensively. I have owned ONE so far that did best accuracy work with Barnes bullets. It is not a good track record. I would try something with a flat base like plain ol' Remington 180 grain CoreLokt and Federal's 168 grain match load .. not that you will hunt with them in the end, but to validate the gun's potential.

You describe yourself as a lifelong shooter so I assume you have other scopes. My next suggestion, if the first doesn't fix it, is to install a different scope on that rifle. Even new scopes can be "bad". A scope with something loose inside can shift between two "fixed" points creating double-grouping. (I have a "spare" scope which is well proven to install on rifles as a sanity check when things are behaving in inexplicable ways.)

Then look at the stock. I save that for last-ish because it's more complicated and potentially more expensive. Having a barrel almost free floated enough will produce the groups your pictures show. When free floating a barrel, I want it FREE FLOATED, not almost, but by a solid margin. Take a stack of 10 $1 bills and see if the stack will slide between barrel and stock ... and how far, and whether it is balanced on both sides or indicates the gap is closer on one side than on the other. Stocks flex more than we realize during recoil. It is ok to have contact under thick section of the barrel at the chamber, but unless I have full-length bedded a barrel, I don't want any contact from the slope ahead of the chamber clear to the front of the stock. If you have contact, or even a questionable tight spot, take a dowel and sandpaper and remove material. When I get done, my stocks look like s-h-i-t but the guns shoot ... or else I sell them and let someone else fight them. Life is short. The other alternative is to buy an aftermarket stock to hunt / shoot with and keep the original in case you ever sell the gun. I'd suggest McMillan. You get what you pay for.

Good luck...

Tom

UPDATE:

Since getting all the advice, here are the steps I've taken:

1. Removed all copper from barrel and clean thoroughly using Wipe Out and Patch Out products.

2. Bought some Federal Gold Medal Sierra Match King ammo to test against the copper Barnes, Black Hills Gold and others I've been working with thus far.

3. Shot it; saw no improvements. The Match Kings showed the same pattern (one or two shots here, then one or two shots there about an inch and a half or more apart and in an unpredictable order).

4. Put it on the bench, removed scope and mounts. Found nothing obviously loose. Tested scope on a hand-mirror using the method described earlier in this thread (align the two reticals, whack it against my hand, check for misalignment, repeat). Found no movement. Did manage to confirm that Vortex scope knobs are possibly the least satisfying dial to click of all time, though.

5. Here is where it gets interesting. Loosened the action screws one by one and checked for movement in the gap between the tip of the foregrip and the stock. Found that while the front action screw produced no movement whatsoever, cranking down the rear action screw actually produced a slightly wider gap between those points. So I'm getting some clamping action that is putting torque on the stock.

The question now is what exactly went wrong during the bedding job, and how do I repair this? I realize that the most obvious step would be to grind out all of the existing epoxy and start over from scratch, but I'm curious as to whether or not it may actually be repairable short of an entire re-bed. Maybe I could add a small amount of epoxy on top of what's already there instead of grinding everything away entirely?

One thing I wonder about is that my bedding guide advised relieving the rear action screw by enlarging the hole slightly to ensure it doesn't push on that screw laterally at all, but perhaps since that is the opposite of pillar bedding, it's allowed the screw to apply too much clamping pressure on the wood of the stock?. Maybe adding pillars is the answer?

Any advice is welcome. What would you do?

Thanks,

Blake

Bump

WallyWhitetail - Thanks for the update. Very interesting stuff, and I am following to see what the final solution is.

The only advice I can offer is to put "bigstick" on ignore.

Can you put a plastic shim under the under the rear of the action so that there is no "torque" when rear
screw is tightened down. That should tell you if a re-bed job is needed before you rip out the old.

When bolt is closed, does the bolt handle touch the action at all????

Is you magazine loose enough fit to rattle when screws are tightened down????

I was not able to get the performance I wanted from two Featherweights no matter what, so they moved on.

I sure hope you get it sorted out. It sounds like a cool rifle.

don't dismiss the Vortex yet as the culprit. first thing i thought when i read your title was , bet it is a vortex. have had exactly the same problem with 2 of them. good thing they take them back.

Trybone, he owns you 🙁

I know you do not need even more different suggestions to resolve this problem, but if every thing else fails, I would not discount misaligned scope rings/bases. I think you mentioned that you have Talley light weights on the rifle. The Classic M70's are not known for misaligned scope base holes and Talleys are not known for off drilled holes either. But, with the manufacturing tolerances and scope base screw hole diameters being what they are, you could end up with a misaligned ring mount putting a lot of stress on the scope and causing problems. The way to eliminate this with 2 piece mounts is epoxy bed the bases or ring/mounts with an alignment jig. I believe a solution to your problem has already been discussed on this thread, but my mention is just something to consider if everything else fails to fix the problem. RJ

I will attempt to put the good info into one post!

SCOPE!!!

Bedding maybe could use a little work but would not cause what you are experiencing to that degree.

What you need to do!

Get a Fixed 6 SWFA or a 10 power will work if you don't mind losing some field of view and want to shoot critters past 600 yds. My opinion is for what you are likely doing you would like the 6 better

If you decide you want to mess with bedding a little more after fixing your scope issue relieve the bottom, sides, and front as was mentioned. One other thing that may have been mentioned that I didn't see is the action screws should be clear of any bedding as well. If you relieve the lug make sure the back of the recoil lug is tight against the bedding when you tighten the action screws. Personally I have bedded the recoil lug solid on several rifles and they still shot 5/8" or less at 100 yds with numerous 3 shot groups with dialed in handloads

If your under 1" with factory ammo when your done with your rifle I would call it more than acceptable



Trystan

Thanks for the input guys. I'm working on getting another scope to test and will report back after I get out and shoot.

The first thing i would do is retorque your bases and rings. If that doesnt work, change your scope. Good luck ,Wally.

UPDATE:

Went out and shot this past Sunday after mounting a buddy's leupold vx5hd 2-10 firedot scope on the gun. Saw the same patterns yet again when shooting barnes vor-tx ammo in both 130 and 150g. Shot some more federal gold medal and that did not display the here-and-there pattern, so I think it is actually that my barrel doesn't like vor-tx ammos especially well. Even the federal gold medal match ammo didn't allow me to produce any groups under 1", although they were all pretty close to that. Aside from continuing my ammo search, I'm thinking of fiddling with the bedding job some more. I'd sure like to shoot some sub-moa groups with this rifle. In a perfect world I'd like to do it with solid copper bullets, but time will tell if I'll find the right factory load. I don't really want to have to start hand loading just to make this gun shoot straight. One of the reasons I picked .308 was the abundance of factory ammo choices.

I'll update again after more tinkering.

What? There isn't an 'abundance' of 6.5 Creed factory ammo choices?......

Were you getting the same “patterns” with the Barnes before the bedding? I know you said it was shooting ok but not “great.”

Hello all,

I'm here to give a final update. The problem was the bedding job. Specifically, that it was not a stress free bedding job. I discovered that the trigger guard rocked in it's seat quite a bit and that it was being bent when the action screws were tightened. I was also able to detect a tiny amount of movement in between the forend of the stock and the barrel when tightening the rear action screw. So I re-bedded the action and bedded the trigger guard, except this time I arranged the stock and barreled action in such a way that it could rest in place with no clamping forces from screws or tape or anything else. The results have been quite good. The rifle now shoots pretty consistent ~1" groups at 100yds with the Barnes ammo I want to hunt with. I even managed to shoot one group into a 1/2".

Regarding the questions about whether it was doing this before bedding or not, I wasn't sure because I lost the photos of my older targets and I could not remember definitively what those patterns looked like. I just remember that when I saw the factory bedding job was full of bubbles, I decided to re-bed and hope for improved accuracy. I remember my best groups being around 1.5" with most being much worse.


Thanks for the help to all who chimed in. In the end we got 'er figured.