I have a Howa Mini Action in .223 that I am really happy with, and I have been thinking about picking up one in a larger caliber. Downsides I am aware of with Howas and Weatherby Vanguards are the weight of their normal short and long action rifles, as well as a lack of accessories compared to some other rifles. Also seems like they don't have quite the reputation for accuracy that rifles like Tikkas have, although people seem to think they're accurate.

Are there other issues with Howas that I should be aware of?

The bolt stops are pretty weak on them aren’t they?

I have a Vanguard S2 in 25-06. I think it is one of the highest values on the market. You get a nice trigger, very nice action, plenty accurate and a nice synthetic stock instead of something that feels like a Crosman (all for 490 dollars). Mine shot plenty of loads right into an inch. 85grn NBT, 115grn NBT, 100grn hotcor, 100grn gameking......with all the normal 1/4 bore powders, H4831, RL22, RL17, Varget, H4350. The rifle really came alive with Barnes TTSX. It shoots under 1/2 inch with with 100grn and 80grn TTSX. The 80 grains love RL17 and the 100 grainers love RL22. The rifle was very particular about cartridge OAL. I am very happy with my S2. I think a Vanguard S2 with a Leupold VX-Freedom on it is a hell of a solid rifle for the money.

ive owned 2 weatherby vanguard s2 rifles, one in 30-06 and another in 6.5 cm. they were both very accurate and never gave me a reason to not like them. i wouldn't hesitate to get another. if you want a "light" rifle, go with another brand. i agree that a vanguard s2 is a great value. to me, it feels like a quality rifle in the hand. ymmv.

Hotsoup hit what I missed. When you pick them up they feel well made.

I've asked this question before and there's not much negative that's ever said about Howas except for the weight. Formidilosus hates the Remington 700 trigger - I wonder if the same issues would apply to Howa triggers?

I had a VG S2 3-4 years ago. The trigger on mine was primo, really liked it. Didn't really care for the rifle's weight, but then again it wasn't much of a kicker in that respect either. It loved hornady factory ammunition and disagreed with every reloading attempt except for the one it did like. Hurtle I couldn't get passed was the front action screw going up into the recoil lug.

I've heard the bit about the bolt-stop screw shearing off, but just on the www. Brian Pearce has written some pieces about reliable guns and Howas are on his good list.

I get around the heavy business by having a couple of Minis and an Alpine. One mini has the hinged floorplate by Oregunsmithing LLC, a major upgrade in look and feel and handling. Alpines can still be found here and there, but usually at a pretty hefty price for new ones. I'd rather pony up a few hundred more for a Fieldcraft or just buy a Montana. Mine was only $600 on sale from Grice.

I’ve been shooting Howa 1500s for several decades without an issue. Mine are all older Interarms imports in 338 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag and 308 Win. The last two were retriggered. Back then there were no HACT triggers. They all shoot exceptionally well, the trick is all actions are Acraglas bedded and barrels floated. For what it’s worth I bought the 308 Win barreled action for $200 and bedded it in an old B&C Carbelite. Id put its accuracy up against field guns that cost a couple of thousand more. I am a fan of the front recoil lug, in my view it is the reason you can get extremely good accuracy out of the weapon. The action/recoil lug is a one piece steel forging with a large flat bedding area.

I've never owned a Howa or Vanguard.

That said, the bolt stop doesn't give me the warm fuzzy. Replacement screws are available, and inexpensive, but I'd rather have a more robust design.

And there was a recent thread about the front action screw that is located in the lug. Not an "issue" per se, but something to understand.

Jason

I have a SA in .308 Winchester.

I had pulled the pencil barrel (it was a LW version) and replaced it with an aftermarket barrel with a Remington Sporter contour and also pillar bedded the stock, so I figured I'd go ahead and replace the stop.

I'd heard of them being weak, but I've not seen or personally heard of one failing, but I've not practiced rapid bolt cycling with it, either.

Shipping was more than the parts were.

I have owned 2 dozen of them Howa 1500 and Weatherby Vanguard. The bolt stop "issue" is a WWW thing. I have never had an issue with either coming from the factory, I cannot say that for other guns I have owned. I replace every trigger with a Timney although plenty of people like the new 2 stage trigger which works well.



Remington.

Winchester

Weatherby Mark V

Kimber

Only brands that had to be back to their maker.

I've had four of them. Currently have two. Never an issue with any of them and they were all good shooters.

If the bolt-stop screw was an issue, it'd be an easy fix for Howa or users to correct. Since the factory apparently hasn't addressed it, I figure it's nothing much to worry about. Actually, I've never looked at it on mine. Have to give it a look next time I have one apart.

The recoil lug is like a Mauser's. I'd prefer the hole where a M70's is, but prefer either to some of the other designs being used these days, which often work well, but look cheesy, and all came about to save money AFIK, not because they're a better idea.

On the plus side of the ledger, Howas have actions machined from forgings, including a one-piece bolt that will never have the handle pop off or come loose, and the easiest bolt takedown imaginable. I'd like to see the Mini, all of them really, offered in SS by Legacy, but such is life. My little Grendel cost me $359 with two stocks, and another $165 for the nifty bottom metal, and is a pretty nice rig for a $500+ dollar rifle. When Oregunsmithing LLC gets their new stock ready to sell, I might have to pop for one of those too. About $450, I was told.

I don't own a Howa rifle. Screw in lug or bottom of the receiver works well but I would prefer the front action screw threading into the recoil lug for 2 reasons, 1) do not use tape on the bottom of the recoil lug when you bed it and the rifle will not be sensitive to action screw torque, like many bolt actions are, and 2) you have more threaded area in the recoil lug for less wear on the screw and receiver threads. RJ

I have an old Vanguard in 257 Wm. It doesn't feel that heavy to me, and shoots well under an inch.
I did put a Timney trigger on it, and a Butler Creek stock.
Recently had it Ceracoated.
I'm keeping it.

I currently have 2 Howa's and 1 Vangard and have had others in the past. Have always found them to be reliable and accurate.

I don't own one, but have heard good things about them. Probably the only negative is - the barrels are put on gorilla tight and they have metric threads. If you never plan on re-barrelling neither are an issue, but IMO it would hurt resale value.

Ive had a couple of HOWAs and nary an issue with either one..

Yeah, they are a tad heavy, but accurate and functioning is flawless.

I have had three. I basically moved them on because they are heavier than I like for the kind of deer and elk hunting that I do. I gave my last one, chambered in .300 Win Mag, to my older stepson who has hunted it hard. He is a beast and is hard on his equipment. It has held up better than most of the stuff that he uses, and it is still very accurate with my 165-grain hand loads.

Im surprised the Howa M1500 in 6.5X55MM isnt popular

The bolt-stop screw shearing off is a real thing, I've sheared off two of them (same rifle). It could be a LOT stronger. Other than that, I had no issue with the four Howas I've owned. Solid, stout rifles.

I don't know, OEH. Maybe the bolt stop "issue" is a 24hourcampfire thing?

Below is a list of fellow members, at our site, who have reported a problem with the bolt stop. From a post I made 7 years ago. I don't own a Howa/Vanguard and don't have a dog in this fight.

LeonHitchcox
Sask_Hunter
greydog
sdgunslinger
Sevens
calikooknic

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8411121/1

Shiitfire,

Add ratsmacker to the list above.

Jason

It might be a 24hour thing as well, but I have never had one issue with 2 dozen of them so I will continue to buy them. If it is an issue surprised Howa has not addressed it since it is a simple fix.

I have four Howa/Vanguards one of them being the Mini and the other three a standard SA.

They are the best bang for the buck in an off the shelf pushfeed IMO.

Although the VG and Howa's are essentially the same, Weatherby has a stricter quality control than a standard Howa and they will typically outshoot a Howa, all things being equal.

But you can't go wrong with either one.

By my count, I have owned 11 Howa 1500s and 6 Vanguards. I currently have 5 Howas and 3 V2s.

I don't like the Hogue or Hogue-style stocks that come on the lower priced Howa 1500s, so it is often a wash, price wise, for me to buy a V2 instead of a Howa 1500, as I like the current V2 stocks a lot. In fact, I think that the current V2 stocks might be the best, at least for me, regular production factory injection molded synthetic stocks that I've yet to own. The less expensive after-market stocks that I like are the B&C Weatherby-style Medalist and the new, old stock, walnut stocks that were made for S&W at GPC.

The Howas that I have are short actions in 6mm CM, a 6.5mm CM, and 300 WSM, and long actions in 30-06, an old S&W 1500 that I keep because of the unique, all "1's", serial number, and a 6.5x55. All of the Howa 1500s have 22" barrels, while the V2s in 223 and 6.5mm CM have 24" barrels, so they are a little longer and heavier.

The most accurate out of the box with factory ammo center-fire rifle that I've yet to own is a V2 in 6.5mm CM that I bought in 2014. It has become one of my favorite rifles and one that I have supreme confidence that if I do my part, it will put a bullet where I intend for it to go.

The throat on my 6.5x55 is cut longer than SAAMI specs and that creates some free-bore with most bullets under 140 grains. It shoots 156 grain Norma and RWS factory ammo better than any that I've tried with lighter/shorter bullets. I have heard/read that this is a common issue with Howa 1500s in 6.5x55, but the one that I currently have is the only one that I have any experience with.

As with many things, YMMV.

Currently have 3 Vanguards....240 Wby, 257 Wby and 223. Ya, they're heavy, but no issues otherwise.

I have 2 Vanguard 2 rifles. .30-06 and .223. The .30-06 is stainless and the .223 has some sort of silver coat on it. Both were guaranteed sub MOA and they both are. The .30-06 is my favored center fire rifle out of the 9 or 10 I own and it stays with me year round in the truck ready for hogs,dogs, or coyotes (or any other unauthorized beef eaters).

My local gunshop has a Howa 1500 stainless in 6.5x55 I've been eyeballing for a month... $575 seems a little steep for a howa though.

A while back, just for 'something' a little different, I picked up a matching pair of WBY-X Blaze S2 Vanguards. One in .270 Win and the other in 300 WM and I call them my flame throwers. Actually I haven't used them much, yet, but as a few others have mentioned, they seem to come with great triggers.

Buy that rifle!!

It is Stainless and in 6.5x55. I may be wrong but I do not think that Howa is producing Stainless rifles at the moment. It seems they offer blue or cerekote.

Probably will not get any cheaper...unless you live in an area that encourages podunk behavior.

My one Howa 1500 is a 6.5x55 Swede with the HACT trigger.

The rifle shoots all kinds of 140 grain bullets into very small groups.

The rifle is areal keeper!

You could probably buy a V2 Weatherguard in 6.5CM for less than that and you'd have more factory ammo options.

They Don't make stainless OR 6.5x55 anymore...

Get your schit together.

Howa is now selling stainless again in the US - 308 and 6.5 creed only so far. Maybe if they sell well, they'll make the more of the product line available in stainless.

I forgot that I bought a stainless Howa 1500 in 6.5CM back in February. Damn, I wonder what else I bought and forgot about!

8 had one of those that I sold and bought a tikka T3 in the same caliber because I wanted stainless. The howa was very consistent and outshot the tikka. The tikka shoots decent but is more sensitive to load and not as consistent.

I think the Howas/ vanguards are by far the best value for the money. Especially the walmart closeouts. I still have a few of those new in the box I need to either shoot or sell. I've got several howas and vanguards including some minis I need to shoot still but I'm confident they'll shoot well too.

Bb

I own 4 Vanguard S2's in 243, 240, 257 & 6.5-300 and a Howa Chassis rifle in 6.5 Creed. Never an issue with any and 4 of the 5 will shoot 1/4 MOA with handloads.

IMO they are the best bang for a factory made rifle.

Why?

Name a single European cartridge other than the 7.62x39 that is popular enough in the U.S. to sell in a sufficient sustainable volume such that commercial firearms manufacturers would be justified in cataloging it as a regular production item in 2020? And, even if REM/RUG/SAV/WIN were building them, how many dealers would want to buy them if they couldn't expect to turn the inventory quickly?

I love the Vanguards, easy to got to shoot well, reliable, dependable. Great value for money. Trust them enough that I bought on in .375 for an upcoming cape buffalo hunt.

I might add that most popular would be a 7mm Mauser, how many American manufactures have produced that chamber in mass quantities? Very few.

It used to be popular in the 20s and 30s, but now it's a cult cartridge like a bunch of others that will remain unnamed in the interest of peace and harmony. Most are fine rounds, but have fallen off the radar because they don't sell well enough to make it as regular catalog items. Don't mistake enthusiasm for popularity. Even the nearly identical 7/08, with all the 7x57 wrinkles ironed out, just barely hangs on here and there. Fans of the excellent, but struggling cartridges need to keep their eyes peeled for special runs and other opportunities for scratching their itches.

I post on other forums, if that makes my claim more legit on the broken bolt stop. Mine hasn't left the safe in years due to that weakness. I've asked several gunsmiths to put a side bolt release on it like the Nosler rifles to no avail or to install a stronger screw (wasn't enough room to do so). If I could get that one issue fixed, would customize the rifle and hunt it a lot more as it was my first rifle.

Everything else about the rifle is great though (one piece bolt, M16 extractor, robust action, etc.).

I currently own a Weatherby Vanguard S2 in 270 Win. Shoots great ( 3/4 MOA). Impressive trigger. Nice stock. No flies on it.

I used to own a Howa 1500 sporter in 308 Win. Sent it back to Howa for a recall on the bolt. Never had an issue with it before or after the recall. Shot well ( just under MOA). Gave it to my niece. Used to have a S&W 1500 (Howa) in 222 Rem. Nice rifle. Shot 1.25 moa. Sold it. Had two other 222 Rems. Didn't need it. Liked them all.

My only gripes are: I wish the 308 Win had a 1-12" twist, not 1 -10" . I wish my 270 Win had a heavier barrel. It has a 0.625" muzzle diameter. Wish it was closer to 0 .68" . That is just a personal preference, not a problem. I like muzzle heavy rifles.

Howa 1500 / Weatherby Vanguard rifles are well-made, well-designed, and high-value firearms.

I should have used the "tongue in cheek" smiley when I posted that! I believe what you and the others are saying. That bolt stop screw looks tiny, and I could imagine how it would fail.

Did you get in on GunBroker by chance? There was one seller that sold several that were NIB. One landed at my place.

Mine came from Barrels & Arrows in Marshall, MN, $371 plus $35 shipping. It got booked into my bound book on 02/20/20. Now it has been bedded into a B&C Weatherby-style Medalist stock that I bought from Fishey05 back in November.

Why don’t you put a larger machine screw in? Takes about 15m. The bolt stop is robust enough. The machine screw that holds it could be beefier. I have not had any problems however. I run the snot out of mine. Second barrel and still no issues.

We have four S2 Vanguards and one pre-S2 Vanguard in the family. I’ve been impressed by them. They seem to have better fit and finish than the Howa’s I’ve seen. In fairness though it’s been five or six years since I’ve held a Howa, maybe the newer ones are better.

To be clear, it's not the bolt stop itself, but the screw, which is danged near small enough to be on eyeglasses. They shear off pretty easily. Maybe they're heat-treated too hard?

I have had 3 Vanguards. A 257 Wby mag, a .308, & a .223. Al. Were very accurate right out of the box. they fit me well. No complaints.

What everyone else said...Ive had two Howas and NO issues...

I have a stainless Vanguard with a McMillan stock, and Timney Trigger, (mine is older than the models with an S2 trigger) which I hear is an improvement over previous factory triggers.
I love that rifle, the action is a smooth operation, a real bargain in quality for the price.

My Vanguard is as accurate as either of my two Tikkas, all three will hold MOA groups with several different loads.

Friend of mine who helps with my kennel of 18 freight dogs owns no hunting rifle. Shopped around and will be gifting him a 30-06 Howa. Under $400 at sportmans with veteran discount. 5-down steel bottom metal. One heck of a deal.

You put your friend in a spot. It'll be harder than a mother in law's heart for him to justify the "need" for another rifle.

I have 3 vanguards. No problems. The only one I have used much is a 300 Wby. The stock shape must fit me well I don't notice recoil much with it.
Also have 2 30-06s. I am pleased with the accuracy too.
I mounted a scope on a Howa .223 and sighted it in for a friends daughter. That one was a real shooter. She has piled up the bucks with it.

I was shooting beside a friend at the range while he was sighting his 300 Weatherby in. The little screw that holds the bolts stop sheared off. That was about 2008.

Their Mini's wear a Goat Fhuqked proprietary magazine,that does NO favors in COAL,logistics,wear/tear or pricing. Hint.

Their "308" actions are sound and the COAL rather fhuqking favorable. That being said,they HORRIBLY botch twist rates and Goat Fhuqk some platforms that would be Skookum otherwise. Hint.

Their Long Actions suck horrid ass,due trite COAL constraints and are an easy pass. Hint.

Stocks are hit and miss,but MUCH easier to chase than RPM and often COAL. Hint.

Have yet to break a bolt stop,though I'm still trying. Hint.

The triggers tend to adjust nicely and receivers are farrrrrrrr more static in dimensioning,than most. Hint.

The VG's are FAR and away Weatherby's best offerings. Hint.

They could REALLY do some nice thangs on the 308 receiver,due inherent COAL,if one of their Bean Counters actually shot a fhuqking live round once and applied "all" that "experience". Hint.

Pardon my shooting it all and then some.

Hint..................

I have a Vanguard from back before there were different models.

A 243, the loaded rounds slide back and forth in the mag.
Noisy and annoying. (The spring isn't weak, and never has had a feeding problem)
My dad has a 25-06 and 7mag of just newer enough vintage to be VGX guns.
No issues with the mag.

It's the fastest rusting gun I have ever seen.
On rainy hunts, Dad and I would wipe our rifles down every night,
and we're the only ones to get brown. We would get spots when guys who never
even dried their guns didn't. Rust quick in the safe too. Always kept even with it,
and haven't had noticeable pitting or permanent damage. Other than my floorplate, it
got a weird blotchy look.

Mine also battered the cocking cam. Most would never notice,but i thing the timing was
off. Slamming the bolt had the tip of the cam hitting too soon before the lugs, and it isn't
hard enough to resist deforming.

Dad's 7mag had a problem with the firing pin. Maybe 100 rounds fired, he couldn't
get it to go off. (At an elk of course, never at range) Turns out the pin was too short,
and suddenly wouldnt work reliably. Never blew a primer, no idea what happened.

Just quit using mine 30 years ago, too heavy, moved on.
Dad continues to use the 7mm, has killed stuff from Qubec to Colorado.

I don't think I have ever heard these complaints, so while they are known
to me, they must not be common.

As far as buying a new one?
I would, a lightweight though.

The bolt stop screw is a real thing, as noted by the headcount earlier. It is, as far as I am aware, the only wart on the rifle. I currently have three. I've looked at the stop screws under magnification, and they are significantly variable. The part was designed poorly, and then some are machined much worse than others with circumferential grooves right at the "snap here" stress riser corner.

Fortunately, you can deal with it by having your smith machine a small shoulder bushing and putting a properly manufactured M3 screw through it. He'll have to do a tiny bit of inletting on the stock to clear the bolt head, but it will be rock solid.

Would also be possible to drill and tap it to M4 and just sleeve the screw, making it even beefier.

Good info, thanks for posting that. I seem to remember people asking about possible upgrades here, but don't recall anyone that's done it.

I don't have a Howa/Vanguard but it looks like the factory screw has a shoulder for the bolt stop to pivot on, whereas a 700 uses one of the pins holding the trigger in place.

So, that solution moves the impact force, which normally goes from the left bolt lug hitting the stop and into the screw, to the bushing and into the receiver, correct? Instead of taking the impact, the screw now simply keeps the bolt stop from migrating laterally to the left.

The screw still takes shear forces, but it is actually strong enough to take them. A SHCS from a quality supplier like YFS is likely to be grade 12.9, which is ~190,000 psi material (off the top of my head). It's heat treated. The threads are rolled, so the grain flows correctly and continuously, rather than being cut. The head is formed with a radius at the transition to the shank. All the surfaces are burnished smooth, free of defects.

The Howa bolt stop screw is, to a fastener geek, a bit of an abomination. It incorporates multiple not-the-best practices, or "things to never do," in one part. It is designed with a sharp/square transition from the shoulder part to the shank of the screw, which is bad enough, concentrating stress. It is turned, not rolled and formed, so the grain structure of the metal doesn't flow around the form, it just gets cut discontinuously. The surface quality of the machining is variable. Some are smoother, some have worse grooving where the tool didn't leave it smooth. That's why some of the screws suck worse than others. I don't know what material it's made from or if it's heat treated.

If I was building a Howa/Vanguard to go after animals that would be very expensive to lose, or might take great exception to my attempts to kill them, I would probably upgrade to the M4 screw just to be safe. If I ever ran out of other stuff to do for engineering-like fun, I'd set up a test fixture and measure the force required to break a selection of Howa screws, as well as the M3 and M4 bushing concepts.

I hear what you're saying. That is music to my ears.

Been doing product development and testing for 20+ years, in an engineering role myself. Seen a wide spectrum of failures, and successes. Most recently, with Japanese suppliers. Although they are extremely detail oriented, they don't always factor in the "hard use" cases. Seen it with powertrains and drivetrains. When their stuff started breaking, they seemed shocked. It wasn't until both sides realized that they didn't account for hard use cases, that it made sense. Apparently in the Japanese viewpoint, the operator should never be hard on a machine.

That isn't how American users think or operate And perhaps an explanation why that tiny bolt stop screw was chosen for the Howa/Vanguard. In the Japanese viewpoint, no sane person would ever yank the bolt back hard enough to break it. Japanese engineers said the same thing when we were destroying their drivetrains during development.

Explain the Top Gear Hilux episode, then...

I don't follow. Only thing that I recall is a Yota in the surf.

Just a generic, yet iconic, example of a Japanese-engineered product holding up to unreasonably hard use.

OK, got it. Robust, for those environmental conditions. I'd call that a corner case, and not the typical use case, but I get your point