So I have a Savage Stevens 200 in .223 that I've had for the last 15 or so years. I think I gave around $280 for it new right after they came out. It is the original staggered magazine design and not center feed like the newer Savages. It has always been that rifle I didn't care to keep nice as it was a "cheap" gun. It's been a superbly accurate rifle. However, there are things about it that I just can't get past. Things that I don't like about it:

- The trigger has been tuned to 4 lbs and still has creep and will not go lower.
- Feeding and extraction have always been questionable. Feeding has to be quick and sharp to feed. Extraction usually drops the casing in the receiver before ejecting. I have replaced the extractor and it didn't fix it.
- Fired casings show extreme primer cratering.

With that said, there are all kind of "disposable" rifle options out there today that we didn't have 15 years ago. Staying with the theme, I'm thinking Ruger American, Howa, Remington 783, Marlin XS7, Winchester XPR, TC Compass, etc. To quantify, let's say sub $400 street price rifles. Tikka is out of the price range for this post.

With that said, which rifle would you replace the Stevens with that can address the items above while also offering a decent twist rate? I'd like to stay .223 with at least a 9 twist.

A Howa mini action could be a great choice. Mine has a 1:9 twist, but I think the newer ones are 1:8. I got mine for less than $400. I think that in terms of build quality, any Howa rifle is going to come out ahead of any of the others you mentioned. I wouldn't put them in the "disposable" category. They have more of a quality feel, if that is important to you. I am not sure what the twist rate is in the short action Howas, but I think it's also 1:8. All of the rifles you mentioned are capable of good accuracy. To me, the Ruger American is a great example of a rifle that does everything a rifle needs to, but just doesn't feel like something I want to buy. That's my problem, though - not the Ruger's.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product...vage+19676+11+trophy+hunter+xp+223+nikon

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/73928/weatherby+vanguard+s2+223

accurate rifles with junk stocks

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product...r+amer+rnch+223+16+6r+flat+dark+earth+mt

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product...savage+axis+ii+xp+223+remington+bushnell

RAR all day...

Mauser M18 at $399.
My tc venture keeps up with my tikka.

Winchester XPR hands down. Best barrel, best trigger of the budget cohort. Stock isn't great, but better than average. Recoil pad surprisingly nice.

winchester xpr would be my choice.

Winchester or the Mauser, more money then Tikka.

That's too bad about your stevens 200. I know they are extremely accurate little gems. The are not without their own little quirks though. I remedied some issues with mine:


The first thing I did was pull the POS stock off of it and replace it with a much stiffer Savage trophy hunter stock and then painted it brown. Now it uses detachable mags and feeds great. I also glass bedded it, so you don't see movement in the scope when you put pressure on the trigger. Like you would when it was in the flimsy steven's 200 stock. Also speaking of triggers, the steven's trigger is almost worthless, so a Timney and the like is the only fix. Now with the upgrades, the rifle shoots like a dream:

Luckily for me, the rifle has always extracted and functioned very well, but they do make upgraded extractor kits for these savage rifles.

Now, for cheaper rifles that you can buy to replace your Steven's 200. I generally don't buy real cheap rifles, except for Savage, but I draw the line at the Cabela's exclusive 12FV. At certain times of the year, you can find them for $100.00 off their normal price, which used to be $419.00. The downfall to these rifles is they are heavy, so a lighter weight savage may be something to consider if weight bothers you. I have first hand experience with other savage rifles and they have all shot lights out. Other inexpensive rifles out there that are good are the TC compass and venture. For their price point, they are well made rifles and tend to shoot very well right out of the box. I generally live vicariously through my buddies where cheap rifles are concerned. One buddy was on a savage kick, then it was TC Venture, now he's trying out the Ruger American again. Yes, I said again. He gave them a try a few years ago, when they were a hot little item and the one he bought was just a dog. He had to send it back to Ruger for some stupid repair work that should have never left the factory. It was very inaccurate because of some factory defects. Now he recently bought a Predator model because he watches a lot of youtube videos and people say the predator is the one to get. He bought one in 6.5 cm. As for Ruger, I hate to say this, but their quality control standards suck. His new Predator rifle is very hard on brass. The reamer Ruger used must have been on its last cut or something because the chamber leaves marks on his brass. So much in fact that I can sort out his brass from mine after it comes out of the tumbler. I don't have the heart to tell my buddy that his Ruger may have a bad, if not real rough chamber. Thankfully his rifle shoots decent. Often averaging moa 5 shot groups at 100 yards with my handloads. However, because of these types of issues with Ruger, I would never suggest buying a Ruger American centerfire rifle. Also, Ruger's customer service is sub par when compared to other companies, such as Savage.

The TC Venture is a sleeper for sure. Very much like the old Stevens 200 the OP has. My buddy still has one TC venture left out of the bunch he had. Its a 270 and that rifle shoots for damn sure. It will hang with some of my Tikka's...

Have you looked at used rifles? It seems like guys shy away from them. I'm always going to gun shops and looking at used rifles. I know what to look for when looking for a used rifle though. When I read your last paragraph, stating what you wanted, I instantly thought of my Savage predator 223 rem with a 1 in 9 twist barrel. I found it used for a grand total of $300.00:


I found one for my buddy at an even better price of $285.00, his is a 22-250 though.... The used rifle market has been pretty soft for the last few years. Buying is good, and when I think of buying a cheap rifle, its even better when you buy at a good deal, versus paying full retail on a new one and then taking a loss if you ever decide you want to sell it... Seen it happen to my buddies a hundred times... Just sayin.. By the way, used (when picked out right) shoots pretty damn good:

(Most recent group, shot with 77 TMK handload)

Here's some other groups shot with the 73gr Hornady ELD match bullets:



What the hell, a 5 shot group with the 68gr Hornady BTHP:


That's why, for me, buying used is the better option... Don't even get me started on my cheap Tikka Varmint find a couple weeks ago...

I am with 1917,, I buy many used rifles often they have rings and scope for less than a new rifle.. I can always trade or sell if it doesn’t suit.. No a new one, you will take a loss if you decide you don’t like it.

Amen buddy. I recently found a like new Ruger boat paddle for $500.00:


It came with the Leupold rifle scope and I sold the scope for $325.00... So guys can do the math on what I have into the rifle now.. I don't like losing money on gun deals... If you do it right, you can buy them use them and then re-sell them (if you want) and never have to lose money... Buying an inexpensive rifle like an Axis or RAR and paying full retail, you will never re-sell it and break even... Of course there are those that won't buy used, and that is perfectly fine with me.

Marlin XS7s have been discontinued for awhile and the 223s were never very common, so that probably isn't a practical choice.

I have a dozen or so Ruger American Rifles that have all proven to be MOA capable and, except for the RAR-Predator in 22-250, none have been challenging to find that load.

I don't really care for the RAR stocks and prefer a bind magazine to one that is detachable and protrudes below the stock, but you can buy an elastic sleeve with foam inserts for around $25 to raise the comb height if, as it is for me, you find the comb height to be too low for proper eye alignment.

The catch with buying an inexpensive rifle is that they are tempting to tinker with, so you can easily spend a little money at a time to make incremental improvements/upgrades and before you know it, you have have more money into an RAR than a Weatherby Weatherguard would have cost.

I think that how well a stock fits you, not how well it fits someone else, is a important consideration. For example, I like Howa 1500s, but hate the Hogue stocks that come on the lower priced styles. If I replace the stock on a Howa, I probably could have spent about the same amount of money and bought a Vanguard with a stock that I like much better. The stock is the interface between the rifle and the shooter, so good, comfortable, fit is a high priority for me. Many people adapt themselves to the firearms, while I prefer to modify the firearm to fit me, unless of course if it is a collectable and not a shooter.

Whenever you ask for advice you're going to get it from 360-degrees and, as you would expect, it is likely to be in conflict since different people with different experiences see the situation differently. With that in mind, good luck!

I liked the Marlin X7s when they were available. A lot of good features. I'd look for another if needed a cheapo gun.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Even have LH offerings.

I’ve got a couple. A 7-08 and a predator in 6.5CM.

Only thing I’ve done is put a brake on the 6.5cm and clipped half a coil off the trigger spring.

I'm not much on cheap rifles myself but occasionally I'll check out the new offerings in the store or shoot one belonging to someone else.

Currently the Vanguard is the only one out there that can still be bought new that interests me. I've never handled the regular Howa version so I don't know how the stock feels on those, could be a good choice. Only thing I don't like about them is the weight.

The only true budget rifle that tempts me every time I come across one is the Marlin X rifle. After owning a few of them, all the other budget offerings seem to come up short in one area or another. Still can't believe they are discontinued and were essentially replaced by the Rem 783 after Marlin was bought out.

I have a Ruger American in 300 BLK with this same problem.

For cheap practical hunting rifles and pickup rifles, around here anyway, it's pretty hard to beat the old Mauser sporters at the gun shows. Generally run 200 to 300 bucks, depending on what scope there may be on them. I like the old World War Whatever cartridges they come in too. I love the on target results from RAR's, but I'm not a plastic stock guy (Yah, I know they are far superior to wood because everybody knows wood goes to hell much after 200 years).

I too am maybe...possibly... interested in ugrading my 223 rifle, which is a really nice old walnut and blued M77 Mark II, that I bought used for less than your preset budget. Mainly for a faster twist rate and slightly lighter weight.

While most issues with budget rifles can probably be overcome with a little elbow grease, the cheap flexible stocks need more attention if not replacement for me to really like them.
My brother got an Axis on a kind of Green Stamp program through his company...so free. And then spent S200 on one of the new laminated Boyds adjustable stocks, making it look and feel like a much nicer rifle. Still has the cheap trigger, but useable.

I think used is definitely the way to go if you want a rifle with better features that you don't have to tinker or spend money on at budget rifle price.

In the past, I had an older Savage 110 that had the old trigger and stagger feed action that was really rough when cycling the bolt. I didn't think I'd ever own another Salvage again.
But recently picked up a lightly used Model 10 243 with slick cycling centerfeed, polished bluing, accutrigger, and a fairly sturdy plastic stock for less than all but the cheapest super sale pricing on the budget rifles.
Nothing fancy, although it is a very satifactory rifle as delivered.
Although around here, used 223 rifles in the slightly higher grade at a budget price with a 9 or faster twist aren't something you see every day and may take some patience and leg work.
I can't say I love the idea of a .223 in a 30-06 length action, but I have seen a few Savage Axis in like new condition at sub-$200 pricing.

I'm far more tempted by the Ruger American Predator with it's 1:8 twist for guaranteed stabilty of 75's at any altitude. Probably right near your $400 limit and still has one of the worst stocks and possibly needs magazine modification or replacement to seat the 75's optimally.

I am very tempted to pick up an old Remington 600 in .222 and put a custom fast twist 21-22" midweight fluted .223 AI barrel on it to get a relatively lightweight and compact rifle just like I want, with a modicum of style and class. Of course this would end up costing near double or more your $400 budget. And it'd still have plastic bottom metal/trigger guard and a stock that I might want to reshape and trigger that may or may not eventually be replaced.

One had better take a very hard look at the Mauser M18 on sale at Eurooptic.

Mauser M18, Winchester XPR, and the Howa/Vanguard are where I’d be looking for a cheap, new rifle.

I don’t consider the Howa a cheap rifle at all. Even the little minis feel solid and well made. I liked the old Marlin x rifles too, but they did feel cheaper than the Howa.

You can replace the bolt head on the Savage for a few bucks...the barrel too...

If you're serious about 223 I'd buy the new rifle that offers a 1/8 twist rate with the best barrel.

That will cross a few good rifles off the list in that caliber, but that's the breaks...

Its nice to have a 1in 8 twist, if you shoot heavier bullets than the 77's. From what ive seen, most guys arent running heavier pills. Therefore the op's 1 in 9 thought works well enough, for most people.

Let's see..

i have the old Stevens in 22.250... with a 7/08, 243 and 223 barrel...

I have a Savage Axis in 243, I bought for $269 last year... stainless barrel and white-ish camo stock.. a "Cabelas Exclusive"

and then TC Compass in 6.5 Creedmoor I paid $200 for new this past December....

and I've have a couple of Howa Mini's in 223....

I've liked them all...

the one other thing I had was a Ruger American in a Predator in 223... I didn't like the magazine..
the rifle shot real well.. but I didn't care for it...

gave it to a good friend off the campfire...down in Louisiana.. he seems to enjoy it, and he worked out the magazine unreliability problem....the biggest reason I let it go... replaced the Ruger with a Howa Mini....

I've donated food and money to a couple families up here in Alaska who lost their homes to chimney fires. Then swallowed down a sorrowful lump in my throat after the visits. Sobering to say the least.

Burning firewood all season, my line of thinking:
If my place burned down and I lost my hunting rifles, I'd be walking right into Sportmans Warehouse for a $399 howa/nikko sterling rifle/scope combo.

Over in the ammo section, I'd grab a couple $33 boxes of 220 grain speer hotcor federal blue box 30-06.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting...-king-package-bolt-action-rifle/p/p42068

wanted to try 6.5 creedmoor got a t c compass 219.00 trigger job skim bed and I have been pleasantly surprised . only shot factory ammo , fed non-typical shot better each time I shot it. last group (3 shot) 3/4 " out of first box. Then shot a group of hornady whitetail (again 3 most deer don't let me shoot at them 3 times) .431 These groups were at 100 yards. May quit reloading !

I would still have a hard time passing up a deal on the Rem 700 ADL rifles when they come on sale a couple times a year. I've seen them for around $300 or a bit more a few times and they are quite often available in just about any chambering Remington makes them in- not just the left overs after hunting season.... I've always thought those were a killer value for the money and I have had excellent results from my Remington rifles over the years....

Bob

Ruger Americans shoot and with the 450 bushmaster mag not a bad package in the standard SA family.

Mom parts is a minus, so is the stock. But 223 and 243 are twisted pretty decent.

But considering how you can take a factory 700 and basically go any direction you please it’s hard to recommend savage axis and junk rifles like that.

If they’d just ditch the dam 1-12 twist in 223 that’d be great

I can get Ruger American Predators for $389 OTD. I have them in 223, 6.5 CM, and 308. They are the most accurate rifles in my safe. All 3 will consistently shoot groups of 1/2" to 1" at 200 yards. I'm sure there are other good rifles out there, but I'm sold on these. I'm less impressed with the standard rifles, especially the long actions. But sure do like the way the Predators shoot.

This......if it weren't for europtic the m18 may not be a candidate. A year ago folks would have steered one toward a sauer xt 100 because Reed outdoors was closing them out at $450. These two rifles shoot real good.

Damn, BSA - that was a bargain and a half!

Like you, I like used rifles. Half the rifles in my safe wewre preioulsy owned, gently used and cheap. That includes a Savage 11FXP3 .243 and a 111GNS 7mm RM, both under $300. A new Savage 12FC joined them last Christmas, also under $300. Ripped the barrel off the 111 but the other two as excellent shooters.

Had the .243 at the range last weekend. Took me 3 shots to hit a clay pigeon on the 600-yard berm. The first was a sighter, but close. The second got a slight adjustment in POA and was very close but still a miss, Another even slighter adjustment and the third was a hit. Love rifles that shoot, regardless of the cost.

A friend of mine is going through a divorce and losing pretty much everything, last August he wanted to fill his freezer with moose so we got him a Ruger American in 270, it was off a used rack for 289.00, we put a leupold freedom 3-9 that was 125.00 used and worked up a load. He went and dropped a nice 58” bull then went on to limit out on caribou a few months later.

Well under 400 dollars. If I was buying a budget gun I don’t think I’d even look at anything other than a Ruger american.

Gotta say the Mauser 18 and back when Marlin was making the X bolt gun. Bought the wife a 243 marlin put it in a Boyd’s stock and bedded it and it is a shooter. The Mauser is a steal at 400.00.

Maybe a CZ 527

https://www.cdnnsports.com/thompson-center-venture-223rem-weathershield.html?___SID=U#.Xq4kgWjYrrc

Me 3. I've seen quite a few Ruger 77 in very good condition that can be had at a steal compared to a lot of today's rifles, especially wood stock versions. Have a .270 blue bolt red pad I gave $400 or $450 I forget which. First 3 shot group after sight in was around 3/4" at 100 with Federal blue box. Trigger was tuned and stock bedding was tweaked. Dang near new otherwise. Maybe it's my fogeyism showing but it just beats the crap out of what you can get new at that price range.

Amen buddy.

What. No one said the Remign 700 from Wally World for 398 ?

^^^This^^^

My 6.5 Predator and 7.62x39 and .223 RAR Models are very accurate!

I like the Howa 1500 for an inexpensive, accurate, well-made rifle.

For me, the Hogue stock is a particular preference, because the "fit" is perfect when I bring the rifle up... my eyes are aligned with a standard height scope using the Hogue.

The old-school advice on testing a stock and scope for fit is to:
- Close your eyes
- Snap the rifle right up to your shoulder, as if you were needing to make a super-quick-shot, with a comfortable-but-firm cheek weld.
- Open your eyes

If you are looking right through the center of the scope, and you don't have to adjust your hold, the stock/scope-height is right for you.

Good luck

I'll be the odd man out. I bought a Mossberg 4x4 in 30-06 with wood stock after they stopped producing them for $292. It has been a very good rifle and shoots whatever I feed it accurately. I have heard the Patriot is a worthy successor.

Bought 2 Mossberg Patriots in 6.5CM for my boys. They both shoot at or less than an inch.

I keep hearing good things about the Patriot. (Gotta try one in the future!)

To me there is really nothing new production worth buying...
400 bucks can get some nice used rifles ..there are many well made rifles of old in great shape that are wonderfully made...Husqvarna comes to mind...I have picked them up less tha 400...

Another vote for the Ruger American Predator. I put mine in a Magpul stock and it shoots just about everything sub MOA.

Got to agree with OldCrab

Those Howas can be gotten real cheap and have always earned high respect. Lotta solid manufacturing for the buck.

I'm looking at a Mossberg patriot youth model for my boy.

.350 legend will have him legal in Ohio and PA.

-Jake

KY Gun Co usually has good prices on the Patriot. I don't see one in 350 Legend, but they do have a Ruger American Ranch Compact for $448.

https://www.kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=140822

Bought one of those for a SIL a couple months ago. 7mm RM.

Several years ago I bought a M700 223 off GB for $400 including a Tasco scope. Plastic stock coyote gun. Took it out to my range and couldn't get it on paper at 25 yards. Turns out it had a 1 in 14 barrel and since I was in Cal at the time I had to use lead free bullets which wouldn't stabilize. By the time I got through it had a new barrel, stock, scope, trigger and was bedded. I only have about $1000 in it now. Sure shoots tho.....Ha!

I hunt deer in the Thumb of Michigan which requires shotguns or straightwalled pistol calibers. I ended up buyin a Ruger American Rifle in .450 Bushmaster and it literally is a sub MOA shooter. I’ve shot it twice at deer and a six pointer and a mature doe hit the ground. I bought it through Davidsons Gallery of Guns and got a sweet deal.