204 action size - 04/19/10
I'm considering a 204 to play with.....are the factory models all built on a full size action? I may be off track but it seems like a smaller action would be appropriate....
Re: 204 action size - 04/19/10
check out the CZ 527
Re: 204 action size - 04/19/10
Where did you get the idea they are built on full sized actions???
Every maker I know of builds .204 Rugers on the same action lengths they would for rounds of similar length- .223s etc.
Remington ,Savage and Ruger do that. CZs are built on the same "mini" length action (the model 527)they build .223.
The only company that builds .204s on larger actions is Tikka I believe as I think their T3 rifles etc are all one action lenght in standard calibers, but I may be wrong in that.
Every maker I know of builds .204 Rugers on the same action lengths they would for rounds of similar length- .223s etc.
Remington ,Savage and Ruger do that. CZs are built on the same "mini" length action (the model 527)they build .223.
The only company that builds .204s on larger actions is Tikka I believe as I think their T3 rifles etc are all one action lenght in standard calibers, but I may be wrong in that.
Re: 204 action size - 04/20/10
Remington builds them on the entirely too long "short" Model 700 action that is well suited to a 243 or 308 but not so much the 222/223/204 case sizes.
If you can find an Older SAKO L-461 you will be in varmint rifle nirvannah but these are getting more scarce by the day and my 2 are not for sale.....
Shrapnel has about 12 of them, maybe he will sell you one. Such would be such a sweet 204......
Lots of AR's so chambered and a good one can be SCARY accurate.
I cannot stomack the bassackwards safety of the CZ 527 but would take one over a gargantuan model 700. Maybe there is an aftermarket safety out there for them now, I hope so.
Savage now has a rifle out with a correct for the cartridge sized action complete with the accutrigger. I would be temted to look here if wanting a good one without breaking open the kids 529 plan.
Good luck!
If you can find an Older SAKO L-461 you will be in varmint rifle nirvannah but these are getting more scarce by the day and my 2 are not for sale.....
Shrapnel has about 12 of them, maybe he will sell you one. Such would be such a sweet 204...... Lots of AR's so chambered and a good one can be SCARY accurate.
I cannot stomack the bassackwards safety of the CZ 527 but would take one over a gargantuan model 700. Maybe there is an aftermarket safety out there for them now, I hope so.
Savage now has a rifle out with a correct for the cartridge sized action complete with the accutrigger. I would be temted to look here if wanting a good one without breaking open the kids 529 plan.
Good luck!
Re: 204 action size - 04/22/10
Backwards or not, the CZ 527 is very hard to beat.
Re: 204 action size - 04/22/10
Thanks all!
CZ has the action size I'm looking for but I too hate their backwards safety....I'll investigate further.
CZ has the action size I'm looking for but I too hate their backwards safety....I'll investigate further.
Re: 204 action size - 04/22/10
TC Contenders make really great 204's.
Doc
![[Linked Image]](http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/DocFoster49/Contender-1.jpg)
Doc
Re: 204 action size - 04/22/10
But with the Contender you have to pull back to fire, just like the CZ.
Bruce
Bruce
Re: 204 action size - 04/23/10
Just keep on the lookout for an Older Sako in 222, 223 or 222 RemMag, one WILL show up and the 222 RemMAg version would be the smoothest trasition to 204 and can be had for a more reasonable cost due to the scarcity of ammo to feed it.
Re: 204 action size - 04/23/10
Originally Posted by bcp
But with the Contender you have to pull back to fire, just like the CZ.
Bruce
Bruce
As well as pull the rifle down OFF of the bags ad break the whole gun open just to fire a second round - THEN try to re set back into the bags and rest.... just to fire ONCE MORE. I would tire of this in a ground squirrel colony really really quicklike.
Re: 204 action size - 04/23/10
With a little cleaning up a Mini-Mauser(Chareles Daly, Interarms, Rem 799) should make a really nice classic looking 204.
erich
erich
Re: 204 action size - 04/23/10
Originally Posted by safariman
Originally Posted by bcp
But with the Contender you have to pull back to fire, just like the CZ.
Bruce
Bruce
As well as pull the rifle down OFF of the bags ad break the whole gun open just to fire a second round - THEN try to re set back into the bags and rest.... just to fire ONCE MORE. I would tire of this in a ground squirrel colony really really quicklike.
I do it many times a year with three Contender carbines. Simple as breathin...........
As far as resetting it in the bags, that takes about five minutes to learn to do quickly and very effectively. Faster with a bipod.
Nicest small bolt action size for a .204 Ruger, Cooper.
Re: 204 action size - 04/23/10
Seems like I remember reading about some custom action maker going to produce a 700 clone mini on the 223 size?
Re: 204 action size - 04/23/10
I do like the looks of that Cooper...Rifle Magazine has an article about a new Anshutz in 223 size action....not a very flattering write-up for a $2500 rifle.
Re: 204 action size - 04/23/10
I had a .223 Douglas #3 barrel (22 inch, 1x12 twist, chrome moly) installed on a Mini-Mauser action by ITD Custom Firearms in Minerva, OH. The smith polished and reblued the action/barrel to match...he did a wonderful job and it is a great shooter (shot a groundhog this PM with it, in fact).
For a .204, I would suggest the same barrel except a #2 countour and that will make a great light (but not too light) varminter.
IT&D is very skilled, reasonable cost, and prompt delivery.
For a .204, I would suggest the same barrel except a #2 countour and that will make a great light (but not too light) varminter.
IT&D is very skilled, reasonable cost, and prompt delivery.
Re: 204 action size - 04/25/10
Safariman: I currently own and shoot 20 (twenty) bolt action Varminters made by the Remington Arms Corporation in calibers based on the 222 Remington Family of Cartridges (including 17 MachIV, 17 Remington Fireball, 17 Remington, 221 Remington Fireball, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 222 Remington Magnum and 6x47).
I find NO fault what so ever, nor any "un-suitability" with any of these various Rifle/cartridge combinations.
I am guessing that in the past 45 years I have owned an additional 30 to 40 similar Rifle/cartridge combinations and all of them served me well and pleased me!
Most ALL of these Rifles, I do and have owned, have been pleasingly to superbly accurate, as well.
I think the solid Remington bolt action Rifles for the 222 family of cartridges to be very well "suited" to these cartridges.
I own and shoot 2 (two) older Sako Varminters in calibers 222 Remington and 222 Remington Magnum as well as a Browning factory Varminter built on a Sako action in caliber 222 Remington Magnum.
I find the accuracy of the "Sako's" to be on a par with the Remington bolt Rifles of similar calibers - the Sako's though, are MUCH more expensive!
The Sako L-46 line of Varminters are running around $925.00 for 98% guns - then if you need to buy scope rings for them, BRING MORE MONEY!
The Sakos are fine Rifles and I very much have enjoyed them over the years BUT if I were to want to build a custom Rifle in caliber 204 Ruger it would definitely be done on either a Remington 700 type or a Remington 722 action.
By the way my book (two volume set) "The Bolt Action" by Stuart Otteson gives the receiver lengths of the Sako L-461 action at 7.08" and the Remington 700 (short action) as 7.85"!
Or, 0.78" LONGER for the Remington... "unsuitable"... hmmm... I don't think so.
Long live the Remington bolt action family of Rifles.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
I find NO fault what so ever, nor any "un-suitability" with any of these various Rifle/cartridge combinations.
I am guessing that in the past 45 years I have owned an additional 30 to 40 similar Rifle/cartridge combinations and all of them served me well and pleased me!
Most ALL of these Rifles, I do and have owned, have been pleasingly to superbly accurate, as well.
I think the solid Remington bolt action Rifles for the 222 family of cartridges to be very well "suited" to these cartridges.
I own and shoot 2 (two) older Sako Varminters in calibers 222 Remington and 222 Remington Magnum as well as a Browning factory Varminter built on a Sako action in caliber 222 Remington Magnum.
I find the accuracy of the "Sako's" to be on a par with the Remington bolt Rifles of similar calibers - the Sako's though, are MUCH more expensive!
The Sako L-46 line of Varminters are running around $925.00 for 98% guns - then if you need to buy scope rings for them, BRING MORE MONEY!
The Sakos are fine Rifles and I very much have enjoyed them over the years BUT if I were to want to build a custom Rifle in caliber 204 Ruger it would definitely be done on either a Remington 700 type or a Remington 722 action.
By the way my book (two volume set) "The Bolt Action" by Stuart Otteson gives the receiver lengths of the Sako L-461 action at 7.08" and the Remington 700 (short action) as 7.85"!
Or, 0.78" LONGER for the Remington... "unsuitable"... hmmm... I don't think so.
Long live the Remington bolt action family of Rifles.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Re: 204 action size - 04/25/10
What is the DIAMETER of those Remmy short bolts? They are, by comparison, huge. I did not say unsuitable, just overly big and bulky. I, too have owned the 700's in various claibers including a 722 and 700 in 222. They work OK, but there are better choices. Much better choices out there. I will grant you, though, that the Rmmy 700 is an immeasurably better host than any break open single shot.
Re: 204 action size - 04/25/10
Safariman: Your quote: "Remington builds them on the entirely too long "short" Model 700 action that is well suited to a 243 or 308 but not so much the 222/223/204 case sizes".
So from your post I took it that you were talking about the Remington 700 action not being suited for the 222 family of cartridges due to their size (length, width, mass or bolt travel - whatever).
Info you requested to follow:
The diameter of the 700 action is = 1.355".
The diameter of the L461 action is = 1.185".
Diameters then differ by a total of = 0.170".
Or 17/100th's of an inch???
I don't think the Varmints or the 204 Ruger cartridge are going to notice these small differences.
Your contention then begs the question, for comparable investment of ones monies then WHICH action is more "suited" to 222 Remington family of cartridges?
I once owned a customized pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in caliber 222 Remington and it functioned fine and was accurate as well.
I entirely and completely disagree with your contention that the actions the folks who invented the 222 Remington family of cartridges are in fact deserving of your description "they work OK".
I guess thats what makes the world go round though (differing opinions).
Long live the 222 Remington family of cartridges.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
So from your post I took it that you were talking about the Remington 700 action not being suited for the 222 family of cartridges due to their size (length, width, mass or bolt travel - whatever).
Info you requested to follow:
The diameter of the 700 action is = 1.355".
The diameter of the L461 action is = 1.185".
Diameters then differ by a total of = 0.170".
Or 17/100th's of an inch???
I don't think the Varmints or the 204 Ruger cartridge are going to notice these small differences.
Your contention then begs the question, for comparable investment of ones monies then WHICH action is more "suited" to 222 Remington family of cartridges?
I once owned a customized pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in caliber 222 Remington and it functioned fine and was accurate as well.
I entirely and completely disagree with your contention that the actions the folks who invented the 222 Remington family of cartridges are in fact deserving of your description "they work OK".
I guess thats what makes the world go round though (differing opinions).
Long live the 222 Remington family of cartridges.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Re: 204 action size - 04/25/10
Agreed on the point "Long live the 222/223/204 sized cartridges!
And old Sako's......
And old Sako's......
Re: 204 action size - 04/27/10
McGowen was making loud noises a year or so ago about making a mini action for smaller .223 size cartridges but suddenly went quiet about it. Guess they figured the market wasn't there. Same for Montana Rifle Co. Too bad. I had two on order with Montana and one on order with McGowen but I'm not holding my breath for either. I have a Remington 700 in .223 and it's an OK looking rifle but i'd like something smaller "just because". Kimber makes a small diameter action that's an option.
Re: 204 action size - 04/30/10
Anybody know the dimensions of the Cooper Model 21 action? I agree that the 222 family of cartridges would be nice in a smaller scale action.
I have a Remington 700C that was probably built some time in the 70's, don't know exactly because I bought it used. It's a beautiful rifle in 222 Remington. I also have a custom 700 in 22BR, with a McMillan stock, 26" Hart SS barrel, 2 ounce trigger, etc, on an ADL action with the single shot follower. Seems like the 222 family deserves a smaller bolt than one that will accommodate the 308 head size. I think Cooper may be the best deal going in that regard.
What is the advantage of the 204 Ruger over the 222, anyway? I love the triple deuce, and will likely buy a Cooper chambered for it.
I have a Remington 700C that was probably built some time in the 70's, don't know exactly because I bought it used. It's a beautiful rifle in 222 Remington. I also have a custom 700 in 22BR, with a McMillan stock, 26" Hart SS barrel, 2 ounce trigger, etc, on an ADL action with the single shot follower. Seems like the 222 family deserves a smaller bolt than one that will accommodate the 308 head size. I think Cooper may be the best deal going in that regard.
What is the advantage of the 204 Ruger over the 222, anyway? I love the triple deuce, and will likely buy a Cooper chambered for it.
Re: 204 action size - 05/01/10
I just measured the action of my Cooper 21s in 222 & 223 and they both measure 1.155 and the bolt diameter is .560, It is a nicely sized action for cartridges based on the small bolt head, not too petite but just a nice size that looks right with the size cartridge.
At the same time I measured my Remington 700 action short action and arrived at the following figures - action diameter 1.350 and bolt diameter of .700.
Based on these measurements the Remington is just short of 1/4 inch larger in diameter and the bolt is about 3/16 inch larger in diameter. Not a lot but when placed side by side the difference is striking to say the least.
Overall length of the Cooper is 7.75 and the Remington is 8.00 but this is a figure that cannot be changed much since it requires a certain amount of length for the action opening so a cartridge can be loaded.
By the way I was by Cooper Arms yesterday and had an opportunity to handle the new model 54 Classic repeater and the new Varminter repeater. Both are pure class and handle great and both still have the 1/2 inch accuracy guarantee just like the single shots. Guess what my next purchase will be!
drover
At the same time I measured my Remington 700 action short action and arrived at the following figures - action diameter 1.350 and bolt diameter of .700.
Based on these measurements the Remington is just short of 1/4 inch larger in diameter and the bolt is about 3/16 inch larger in diameter. Not a lot but when placed side by side the difference is striking to say the least.
Overall length of the Cooper is 7.75 and the Remington is 8.00 but this is a figure that cannot be changed much since it requires a certain amount of length for the action opening so a cartridge can be loaded.
By the way I was by Cooper Arms yesterday and had an opportunity to handle the new model 54 Classic repeater and the new Varminter repeater. Both are pure class and handle great and both still have the 1/2 inch accuracy guarantee just like the single shots. Guess what my next purchase will be!
drover