would you get? I don't reload, but hope to get started pretty soon. Looking for one of these calibers because I have a potential trade coming up. More interested in accuracy...with ample shooting secondary.
The rifle in question is a Remington ADL in .223 or 22-250, black synthetic stock. Will probably need ot get the trigger worked on, and bed/float the barrel if needed.
I am thinking, making the tough choice between a 223 or 22-250. But I don't shoot volumes of varmints, at least not in the eastern woodlots. But I do shoot them occassionally. I would not want to get two rifles though. This is gonna be the one-for-all-varmints rifle.
I know some have placed Remington at the bottom of the heap, but hell I'd take a beater Rem over a Savage!
I may trade my 1972 M70 30-06 Deluxe + $75 for this NIB ADL in either a 223 or 22-250.
I want to get a varmint rifle, however, I need to give up one rifle as my money has been going to my kids daycare.
What caliber would you pick? Would you just buy a ADL and try to sell a M70 for $300, if that is what you can get?
Thanks and I am mostly interested in the caliber inputs...
Ford or Chevy?
Old argument on this board. Anyhow, though I personally favor the 22-250, sounds like the 223 would be more suited to your wants and needs.
Six of one, half dozen of the other. Either will suit your needs. However I perfer the .223 for no other reason than it is what I have the most experience with. If it aint broke, I wont fix it. The .223's I've owned aint broke yet.
Flip a coin as you will be happy with either.
X-VERMINATOR
I'm working on getting a varmint rifle myself and the decisive factor between the .223 and the 22-250 is cheap ammo and brass for plinking. Prices aside, there are more .223 factory offerings to be had here compared to the 22-250 as well.
I'm not sure if this is an issue for you, but a couple things to consider-
First, there is a ton of cheap .223 ammo available and most of it is very accurate in most good quality rifles. To reasonable distances, the .223 performs just as effectively as a good 22-250. Beyond that (approx. 300-350 yards) it still kills fine, but just a little less explosive than a properly stoked 22-250.
The second, and I think the coolest thing, is that with the .223 you can quite often watch the hits through your scope. I can seldom do this with my 22-250 due to the added recoil. It is way cool to see chunks flying at 20 power in your scope!
Also, if you're looking for a "walking varminter", you will have more choices in the .223 than the 22-250. Accuracy issues seem to be nonexistent as most 223's will shoot right with 22-250's in accuracy and range, but I know that since I got a .223, my 22-250's get clean up duty these days.- Bob
If you intend to hunt in a semi-populated area then the .223 is the best way to go. The neighbors of the landowner will appreciate the lower report, the 22-250 is significantly louder. I find my .223 good out to a 300 yards which should be plenty good for eastern woodchucks. May I suggest you consider buying the Blackhills ammo. Their 50 gr. Hornady Vmax backed by 26 gr. of H335 shoots extremely well in all three .223s we have tried. In addition, the performance of the Vmax is nothing short of spectacular. Good luck with the new rifle and good hunting.
223 hands down for first varminter. Cheaper brass, cooler shooting, lots more "factory ammo" out there for a lower price, and since you're back East, it's quieter. Get good with the 223 first, then if you want to reach out farther, go 22-250.
Or BR, or Swift, or Howell...
The best good thing about a 223 is you can get a lot of centerfire trigger time -- and reloading practice experience -- with an accurate cartridge. Everyone should have one.
Boise and Dave Skinner,
I guess you both made your points. the .223 is probably what I need, but I hate to feel I need to upgrade one day, and got to do something with this rifle. In all honesty, I will not be shooting 350+ yards, so the .223 should suite me just fine. Plus, other young shooters can shoot it and get experience.
Thanks for your input... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Where is the best deal for .223 ammo? I done compared the ammo to a 22-250 and the .223 rings cheaper. Was wondering where bulk ammo is purchased, besides midwayusa, natchezss etc.
Thanks.
you said that you were thinking of getting into reloading in your earlier post. if you are going to reload for this caliber i would go ahead and get the .22-250. the .223 is a great round and the ammo is cheap so there would be no need to reload for that caliber unless you have it ackley improved in the future. i bought the .22-250 so that i could reload for it. you won't be undergunned for varmints with either of your two choices.....blake
I would get a Remington 700 VS in .223 or a Remington 700 ltr with 20" heavy barrel in .223 if I could aford it.
Otherwise I would get a Savage 10fp with heavy 20" barrel in .223 and the acutrigger.
Conrad
When I had to choose it was a choice between a Savage Model 12 bvss in .22-250 or a new barrel for my Encore. I chose a 26" Heavy Stainless .22-250 Encore Barrel, scope mount, 1" rings & 6x-18x 50mm Bushnel Scope RCBS Reloading Dies & three boxes of 45gr Hollowpoint Federal ammunition and all said I still saved $200 off the cost of a Savage 12 bvss. I chose the .22-250 with an eye to maximum performance, my opinion of the .223 or 5.56 Nato round is very low so I never considered it worthy of a place in my firearms collection. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
I think the answer is simple! The deciding factors are,distance,availability of ammo,and if you reload,availability of brass. I belong to a gun club with over 2000 members. It seems that every person that joins the club and takes a first interest in firearms,and wants to pull the trigger with a 30rd. mag. to here the gun go Bang! And not until years later do they realize there is a thing called accuracy. So all the new young members seem to come to the club with their new $150- $500 M16s or AKs in .223 and their pre loaded box of 30rd. mags. And when the smoke clears and they take down the single target with 500 holes in it,I simply ask," Hay! Are you going to keep that brass or are you going to toss it"? And nine out of ten times the answer is"NA! You can take it!". Now I have about two five gallon pails of .223. The other Question is distance.What is the average distance or the max range you are going to shoot? 100-300 the .223 wins 300-500 the 22-250 wins the vote. But then again is the rifle going to be a custom Rem. with a blueprinted action,glass bedded with a great trigger or a single shot H&R off the shelf?
I'd say hands down the 223 is a better cartridge than the 22-250, I know there are a lot of people that will disagree but if you take into consideration all things listed above ie brass availability, commercial ammo cost, recoil or lack thereof etc. then look at the ballistics you'll see that the 223 is a more efficient cartridge. load both with a 50gr bk in a moderate to warm load 223-3400ft/s 22-250 3600 ft/s at 200 yd 0, 223 drop at 300 yds is 6.4 inches the 22-250 5.5, at 500 yards the 223 is 43 and the 22-250 is 37 inches you need to worry more about doping the wind than the drop at those distances anyway. stoke the 22-250 up to really gain an edge ballistically(and it aint much of an edge) and you'll find you're smokin your barrel too. hence my vote for the 223, probably why i own several but come to think of it i own several 22-250's too, aw hell i think you should get em both.
Valad, sorry with the late reply but I was away on business. In answer to your question, I reload for my .223 but replicate the Black Hill Ammo load of 26 gr. of H335 behind a 50 gr. Vmax. I'm sure you can find them on the net. Their ammo is inexpensive and the Vmax performs awesome. I commonly use my 223 to shoot over 300 yards but the winds out here do lower my average.
Less expensive ammo is available but the bulk bullets don't shoot as well or provide the dramatic expansion chuck hunters have learned to love. Don't misunderstand me, they will shot and kill chucks but going cheap on ammo is a bad idea.
May I suggest you ask around and see if some one will take you under their arm and teach you how to reload? They will likely allow you to use their equipment and you should be able to load several hundred rounds in an evening of FUN. It gives me more pleasure to "roll my own".
I prefer the .223 for my varminting use. Just does everything I need it to do. I have a 22-250, but it always stays in the safe only because my .223 does it all with a little less recoil/noise/cost. Yes all of these are ver minimal in either caliber. Just another opinion though. Good luck in your decision!
I have the very rifle in 223, it is a blast to shoot ground squirrels with. The 22-250 is an awesome round, but for your situation I think the 223 is your better choice. I agree with the others, get good ammo loaded with varmint bullets, the tnt, vmax, ballistic tip, etc between 45-50 grains, and go have some fun. Mine is a great shooter, havent done anything except stick a Bushnell elite 3200 3 by 9 on it, and it shoots Ultramax 55 grainers, or Winchester 45 grain hollowpoints inside each other, but then, it's a sucks........(LOL)
I'd go 22-250 all the way. There is'nt a whole lot of difference in noise/recoil and really does'nt warrant a consideration IMO.
Also in the East most fields will give you ample opportunity for long shots, certainly further than 300 yards.
At 400 yards the 22-250 drops a good 6 inches less than a 223 and that is substantial in my book. Also more importantly it hits alot harder and if theres anything I hate its a woodchuck that makes it back to the hole.
The economy of 223 ammo is also a non issue for most people in my book. Small potatoes for a walk around varminter.
FVA,
Interesting, this topic varies widely. My guess is, the 22-250 would be more suit to shooting in the long run, but the .223 would do the job up to 200 yards and my boy can learn to shoot with this rifle. It's a toss up.
But I have decided for now, to just keep shooting a 243 until I decide. I am LH, so I don't have alot of other choice and since I have shot RH rifles, I may look for a cheapo .223 for the time being. Hate to have to buy a new rifle and rebarrel it when I just dropped $500 dimes on the rifle. Oh, I also don't want a VS, too heavy for a walk-about-varminter. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for your inputs...
I'd do the 223 Thing,but that shouldn't suprise anybody.
The 223 is amazingly well supported with exceptional over the counter stuff,that won't break the bank. BH is great,maybe even better than that.
Once you are geared to load,the 223 is again a landslide favorite and better supported. The price difference in brass alone,is worth the price of admission IMHO.
As far as terminal effects,the 22-250 has the edge in Juice,but it isn't light years ahead of the 223. For the modest distances you mention,the 223 is THE ticket IMHO.
Do the 223 Thing,procure some BH V-Max fodder and have your way with things. The jingle you save in over the counter fodder,as opposed to the 22-250,will ease the burden of assembling your own reloading kit. Then the shooting gets wayyyyyyy cheaper and new windows of opportunity are opened.
The ADL synthetic 223 is alotta rifle for the loot and upgrade parts abound,should you ever get that itch. A pard punched one to 223AI with it's Factory barrel and it does SCARY things on paper and downrange.
Your mileage may vary....................
Ooopsss...nearly forgot.
Howa makes an accurate rifle,for suprisingly little loot and they are pretty slick right outta the box.
A guy could do much worse................
You also should consider getting a .243. This cartridge is more flexible then a .223 or a 22-250. You can shoot light bullets such as the 55 gr ballistic tips at near 4000 fps for varmints and 100 gr heavy bullets for small big game.
Conrad
Valad,
Both the cartridges are fine and accurate, but I will re-vouch the .223 for all the reasons you say. The .223 will have a longer lifespan than the 22250 if you fire at the same rate.
My personal next step up from the 223 was the 22 Bench Rest wildcat...the 250 was just a hair much for my tastes and shooting habits.
The next 22 I plan on will be a 221 Fireball because it is cheaper still than the 223 after you've bought new brass, quieter, and still wicked deadly within 200 yards. And going the other way, I'm going to get a 6-250, because the 243 and 6 Rem are just a skosh too much for varminting, and I want to use the six on deer when I haven't loaded it with a death ray - windy day varmint load.
Decisions, decisions. That's what makes this stuff fun. Either way, good luck.
I would go with the .223 over the 22-250. Just had great luck with it accuracy wise! Plus if a guy is not a loader there is tons of cheap factory loaded ammo for the .223....Just another opinion
I've got both the .223 and 22-250 in both Remington and Sako. The .223 may not be my favorite cal. but I will never be without one. Hand loads for the .223 will perform with the 22-250 and although the remanufactured ammo is cheaper in cost it is loaded down to operate in the semi-auto. Cost is about 18 to 19 cents per round. The Remington 700 ADL is a great gun except for the synthetic stock and is a bear to bed correctly. The 700 VSSF is alot better stock but a heaver rifle for packing and this is what I'm shooting and it's a shooters dream. One thing for sure, you will never go wrong in owning a rifle in .223.
Tim K.
'Nother vote for the 223.
I'm on my 4th one. I keep buying and selling. Finally have settled on a Ruger Compact as my all-time favorite "walking" varmiter in 223.
I've also got a Ruger 77V in 220 swift ( To Heavy !). It don't get used nearly as much as the compact. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Virgil B.
I just find the 223 rather anemic beyond 250 yards for woodchucks and eastern coyotes beyond 150.
I'm always surprised how loud the little 223 is and really don't find any merit in its lack of noise/recoil over a 22-250.
As far as the 223 staying with a 22-250 there is around a 500 fps difference handloaded or not. It is substantial in "whomp" factor.
I like the 223 as a second rifle but it leaves me unimpressed as a number one varmint rifle other than for high rate of fire type shooting.
Theres plenty of good factory ammo available. I just think the 22-250 is a better " one for all varmint rifle" for the East.
Another vote for the .223.
The difference in muzzle velocity may be 500-fps, but the difference at 400-yards is less than half that. Speer (the first book I grabbed) shows a 40-grain bullet with a BC of 0.144:
Muzzle: 3,800-fps
400-yards: 1,340-fps
Muzzle: 3,300-fps
400-yards: 1,140-fps
Difference: 200-fps
The .22-250 has less drop than the .223, but BOTH bullets will have over 30-inches of drop at 400-yards - meaning both shots will need to be doped one way or the other. There's not a lot of difference in dialing in a 31-inch drop over a 37-inch drop via turrets or "Kentucky windage".
IMO, all the pluses mentioned with the .223 far outweigh the minor ballistic disadvantage.
fwiw,
I have no love for the .22-250. My first true Varmint Rifle was a 40XB-KS .22-250 and I never did find a purpose for that rifle. That said I'm having a ball with my .223s... I go through a good bit of 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and H335 powder. Tis a fund load that gives no quarter to nutria, fox, and the occasional cat...(grin)
Regards, Matt.
A 40x can easily function as heavy varmint rifle. You have to set up in one place and take long range shots at rodents. I expect that you needed a walking varmint rifle which is light and handy so you can easily carry it.
Conrad
You don't mention what type of varmints you shoot or what range? I only shoot prairie dogs so I can tell you that the 223 is the way to go. Less powder and less muzzle blast. Barrels last longer. However I also use a 220 Swift when they get a little camera shy. You can make most of your shots with a 223 but some times you need a little more reach and the bigger case will give you that. You really need to start handloading though. You can always load your 22-250 down to a 223 level but not the other way around! I have had a rancher tell me that the day we used the 222 and 223 the dogs didn't seem to mind as much as the next day when we came back with the 22-250 and the 220 Swift. The bigger guns seemed to hurt their ears. We were shooting pretty close to the ranchers house! I guess I would go with the 223 and just realize that some varmints are out of your range.
Then get a 220 Swift for your next varmint rifle!
GWN