Hi all,
My 22-250 was not very fur friendly on my last fox. If you had to pick a caliber dedicated for fox hunting, what would it be?

Thanks

17 Rem and 20 grain V-Max at 4250 makes 'em look like they were trapped....

And I'm thinking aalf knows whereof he speaks...


Never having done it, Id think the .17HMR might work well inside 100 yds....

The 17 stuff is the best but IMHO, you'll make a fox messy at least some of the time no matter what you do minus shooting with a rimfire which I cannot recommend for all-purpose use.

I'd use a Vmax of some sort in 17 or 20 caliber and make it leave the muzzle at about 3K...

Wisconsin reds are more likely larger than our 8 pound Texas grays...

Thanks all.
That was the easy part. Now comes the harder part of convincing my wife I need another gun. Along those lines, can you recomend what brand I should look at first?
Thanks

You did not say how you would be hunting foxes but for called foxes I've found it very hard to beat an accurate 22 Magnum. Out to 125yds or so it is deadly on foxes and never ruins fur no matter the shot angle or distance.

For something with a little more range I'd be thinking .17 Fireball with 20gr V-maxes. That may well be the quintessential fox fur load........


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I'd be tempted to take a hard look at Remington's Model 7 Predator in 17 Fireball. It just screams take me varmint whackin'. Best hurry though, looks like big green made it obsolete.

My 17 Rem with the 25 gr Berger Match HP's

I am not very familiar with the 17 caliber. What is the difference between 17 Remington, 17 HMR, and the 17 Fireball?

Thanks

17 HMR is a rimfire.

17 Rem is a centerfire based off the 223 case, shoulder moved back and necked down to 17.

17 Fireball (created in 2007) is better case-to-bullet effiency with less blast and nearly the same velocities as 17 Rem. Uses a lot less powder (less heat, less fouling).

BF...have you heard any reliable reports on the .17FB and fouling...is it as bad as the .17 Rem....?

Ive only heard a couple, and they both say no.....

Found this handy pic for you.

Left is 223, middle is 17 Rem, right is 17 Fireball:

You can just about guess by the pic and contours of the cartridge that fouling shouldnt be bad....

I have a 17 FB, but have never shot it yet. It's the Rem 700 Limited Edition CDL SF "gun of the year" from a couple of years ago.



From what I have heard from other owners, they really like the caliber. Reports I've heard are significantly less fouling than 17Rem. But I can't report any first-hand knowledge just yet.....

204 Ruger would be another option vs the 17's.

If saving fur, I'd shoot a .22 magnum with the 30 grain Vmax and limit shots to 100 yards.

This will be one of the most "reliable" fur combos you will find.

Thank you BlackFrog and all the others. Your input is greatly appreciated.

Have a good day

Until you get your new rifle, you might try some of Seafire's Blue Dot loads in your 22-250. You can duplicate the .22 WMR or get .17 HMR trajectory with a 40 gr. bullet.

This is what I have. I happen to know it works on fox too, with acceptable results. 73yds



Bought it for calling close to farms/acreages where the 22-250 might be too loud. Energy wise, I will try to limit myself to 200yds on coyotes.

If only the fox would cooperate.....

AB,

What bullet?

My 1st choice is the 17 rem with 25 grain Hornady HP, but don,t forget about the 221 fireball or the 22 hornet with 40 grain V maxs Russ

Just using the 20 gr factory load that I bought to get brass. Amazingly accurate. Just less than 1/2" for 3 shots.

[quote=blanket]My 1st choice is the 17 rem with 25 grain Hornady HP, but don,t forget about the 221 fireball or the 22 hornet with 40 grain V maxs Russ [/quot

The Hornet for me has been fairly easy on them with 40gr B-tips .......The 221 Fireball with the same has been worse! Gimme a 22 Mag w/33 V-maxes or a 17 Fireball with 20's.......................


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I have shot at least 50 fox in my days using a .222 Remington caliber rifle. I also killed several with a .22mag up close within 25 yards with head shots.

Now last fall I shot two of those Fox in the chest at 45 yards with a new Savage 17-HMR and 20 grain bullet. It knocked them down but only for a few minutes and they got up and trotted off to the woods. So no more .17-HMR for FOX!!!

Instead I will continue to use either the .223 or the .204-Ruger caliber. They both have plenty of power and knock down capability. The .17-HMR is for ground squirrel or tree rats period.

Lots of very experienced people think that the 17 Fireball is what Remington ought to have done in the first place rather than develop that touchy bore fouler 17 Rem.

I use a Hornet on fox, and have never felt either under- or over-gunned. I don't collect fur, but if I did the ones I've taken with a 223 would have been ruined. Not so with the Hornet. For some reason, the fox have never cooperated when I was carrying my Fireball carbine.

We had a problem with them out at my grandparents place and they were killing all the phesants and chickens. All I had to use was my 204 Ruger or 22-250. Dont use either one unless you run them really slow! I shot all but one with my 204 and factory hornady ammo with 40gr Vmaxs. Everyone of them was destroyed. I would have liked to been able to sell them to the taxidermist but all had holes at least softball size in them on entrance and exit. Same with 22-250. Something small and fast or bigger and slow.

Easy to make a reduced load for the 22-250. Look in thhe Speer Manual. Will have to take special care with your zero. There is a 6" difference in drop at 100" between my regular load, and my reduced load. Regular load is 55 gr VMax at 3700, reduced is 50 gr TNT at just over 2000. I have 55 gr sighted 2" high at 100, so TNT is 4" below point of aim. Reduced load is very quiet.

If I am where there is a slim chance of calling a coyote. I run a 17Javelina with a 20gr Berger or Nagle. I run the same with a 25gr Berger or Nagle match if I am in coyote territory focusen on foxes. I also shoot a tac20 with 35Berger If the odds of a coyote are higher than a fox. I have put a lot of the 40gr Nosler B-tip from my Tac20 into groundhogs. They seem to be well behaved compared to the v-max and Blitz.

I have red ragged foxes with a 22mag and all but cut them in half with a 221 Fireball. I have had 20V-max splash from a 17Ackley Hornet and open a 6inch hole.

GW is spot on. Shooten at a 10-12pound animal that is more fur than meat, at night, comeing to a call, steady moven, turning one into a red rag is gonna happen. Most of my blows up where from poor shot placement, either by just [bleep] up or not judgeing the angle correct more than bullet failure.

If I was building a gun for reds 17Ackley Hornet and a 20gr Match style bullet. Buying on over the counter 17Fireball either a 20 or 25gr match bullet. 20s spooled up and the 25s throttled down a bit.

i have both a .17 rem and a .222...

for fox, the .17 is the answer...

the .222 isn't bad either...

the .22-250 and the like are great coyote busters, or long range chuck guns.... a bit much for fox...

243 is way too big, 223 ok, 22 mag ok but maybe a tad bit low on the power scale for those little nervous jumpy skittish critters who may be hard to get a good shot on.

17 Ackley Hornet is hard to beat for a fox round. I load mine down to 3000fps with a 25gr Hornady HP. Pinhole in and no exit. Almost all of my shots are less than 100 yards here. Ruger 77/22 Hornet rebarrled with a pacnor.

If you're going to go wildcat, don't rule out the .19 Calhoon, www.jamescalhoon.com basically a .19 Hornet. Use the 28 gr bullets. A little more wind resistant than the .17 AH (I have one too).

I have an Encore with an MGM barrel in 17 Mach IV (equivalent of the Fireball). Fouling is minimal, 50+ round range trips showed no drop-off in accuracy. In fact, it begins to shoot better after a half dozen or so down the barrel. What fouling I do get is powder or carbon and little to no copper fouling. I use 20gr V-Maxes or Berger 20 gr bullets and it seems to like Benchmark, H-322 and Reloder 7. Half-inch five shot groups at 100 yards are common. I don't do much fur hunting and haven't had a chance to use it in the field yet. A friend who used to shot the same caliber shot a couple raccoons with his and got no exit with the V-Max.

I shot a couple with Velocitors a few years ago out of my Anschutz 54. One flopped around a little and died, the other one took 2 shots to dispatch but didn't make it 20 yards.

221 fireball with 53gr Barnes x stay away from shoulder or hip shots.

I've done a fair amount of fox hunting over the past 30 years and after shooting them with .22 mag., 22 hornet,.223 and 17 HMR I've come to the conclusion that the best fox caliber is the 12 gauge shotgun choked extra full and loaded with 3" copper plated lead #4's.

17 Rem if you want to save the fur. faster than the 17 fireball and don't foul any worse than any other caliber

I use a 221 Fireball, loaded with 20 grains of Vhit. N130 over a Nosler 40g BT. Very accurate and good out to 250 yards.
Jerry, (UK)

Of the options I presently own, I'd go with the .22 Hornet. It I could pick up a rifle specifically for fox, I'm thinking it might be one of the .17 Fireball persuasion.

I use the shotgun quite a bit, used to be all I used when I started calling. Especially with Greys, they don't stand still long when coming to that Grey Fox Pup in distress. If I was worried about how many I was bringing home I would probably use a shotgun in my area where it isn't very open. I like shooting them with the 17AH though, have to justify the rifle build.

N120 was the ticket in my 17AH. Nothing not to like about 12grs of powder and no sewing from 5feet to 200yards.

The 222 Rem. with Barnes Varmint Grenades 36gr at 3560 fps, seam to never make it out the other side, just lung jelly.

Every red I shot with a 17 Rem was trashed.

Don't shoot them in the azz or the head Russ

I have stated this before......FORGETABOUT the .17-HMR!!!

My vote goes to the .222 Remington or the .223 caliber gents.
Also the .243 does a great job too! I like it a lot on "song dogs" (Coyotes") around our place.

Great calibers for coyotes but a bit harsh on fox. Especially if you have alot of close shots.

I absolutely agree with the 17HMR. Unreliable at best.

I never had any trouble killing them with a 22LR. Guess the ol' 22 just aint cool no more though.

22lr works fine up real close, range is just the issue Russ

You can keep the 17 FB i will take the 17 Rem over it any day.

Or the shoulder ,ribs or facing in the chest . All shots have trashed hides.

I still stand that with a 25 Hornady or Berger match HP the damage will be less than any larger CF rifle. There is only about 300 fps max diff between the 17 Rem, 17 MK4, and the 17 FB and amont of damage is about the same. Marginal angled hits will always do more external damage to hides Russ

I shot quite a few fox back when the only two 17 cal bullets in town were the 25 grain Rem and Hornadys. I didn't find them tough on hides either when shot mid-ship broadside. Maybe a nickle sized exit. When Berger came out with their 25's, I found they were about the same performance wise.

Now that Hornady came out with the 20 grain V-Max, I think, for me, that's still the best option going for thin skin fox at any range. You still gotta stay off the fringes.

This, of course, is from a midwest perspective, not a definitive, worldwide answer.

What he said.

bull sh$t Russ

I picked up a 17 Fireball with fox in mind, we shall see.

Just bad luck here I guess. I shot most with the old 25gr Rem bullet. I put it away after shooting a called female @ 80-100 yards. She sat down and I busted her dead center chest only to find parts of here spine in the snow. Softball exit ...yuck !

Anyhow, was thinking a 17 fireball with a mild load with a 30 gr might work. What you guys think ?

17Mach4 is the best best finish nailer.

22LR the gold standard
17HMR off the patio shots
.204 40VMAX foxyotes

The old Rem bullets were very hit or miss, some went thru like a knitting needle and some blew up like you stuffed a grenade up their butt. I shot a very large tomcat recently at about a 100 yards walking facing me with a 25 gr hornady in the chest and had to step on him to squirt the bllod out to see where it went in and out. By the way definitly a ferel cat, out on the prarie about 10 miles from a house. Russ

Only good cat is a dead one ! 10 feet, 10 miles no diff.

Biggest damn cat I ever saw, thought it might be a black bobcat and had to confirm it wasn't before I let drive Russ

I have only ever used a 22lr growing up in AK. Marlin Papoos to be exact. I never lost one I hit. I did miss a few, and a few took a few extra shots but I never lost one. If I was going to do it again I would probably go Hornet or 17AH. or 22mag with todays ammo.

I only saw one or two people mention the 204 Ruger. Is that a bad choice from your experience<

For saving fox hides?

If so, most definitely...

20 Vartarg

I once had a friend (gunsmith) who built a .17-Remington back in the 70's, it was fast and I could not believe the way it took down fox, coon or even coyotes back in those days. I used a .222 Remington with 40 grn bullets and I thought it still killed as good or better........at least I could find ammo for my rifle.

My two fox specific guns are a Sako 75 Hunter in .17 Rem and a Remington 597 in .17 Hmr. Both reliably anchor foxes within their effective ranges. However, a 17 Rem will make hamburger out of them if they're too close.

Why no love for the 17 hmr? Shocking! lol. Great little fox round imo. Foxes are tiny and the 20 grain CCI gamepoint puts 'em down for the count out to 125 or so. YMMV

my only concern with the HMR is the limited range in the open area I hunt in. Would hate to pass on a 200 yd shot which would be beyond the rimfires range. The 17 hornet is a good one as well as the MK4/Fireball. As far as pelt damage is concerned no one can convince me that any centerfire 17 does less damage than the other. Let's face it folks a fox is about a thin skinned furbearer there is and if you want to argue the damage you either have not shot and skinned many fox or you are simply full of sh%t Russ

All that said, IMO, a 12ga w/Federal Premium copper plated BB's, a 22mag, and a .17 Fireball with 20gr V-max cover all conversation as far as foxes, fur, and range are concerned! If forced to hunt one gun, it would be the Fireball/20gr V-max combo for me!!


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64-Kodiak......The .17-HMR I had, model 93 Savage did in fact knock several fox down but it failed to keep them there and they ran off into the woodline after trying to catch some of my pigeons. I had good blood on the ground but time after time the .17-HMR proved fruitless against the fox or coon in my neck of the woods.

This rifle was traded in recentley on a Savage 93 in .22mag and when using 50 grain bullets, it works like a dream under 75 yards. The wife and I both have those Savage .22 mags!

Interesting, I've also knocked down a few coyotes with mine at 100 yds and less, boiler room shots. What ammo were you using?

Remember, the hmr has more energy at 150 than a 22lr does at the muzzle. It aint no pellet gun. It's too bad you had some bad experiences with it. I'm personally thoroughly impressed with it.

The 22 mag is a great caliber for fox and short range coyotes as well. Good luck with those Savages, they're really nice weapons.