I'm going to take the boy out to shoot pdogs, might as well make it interesting.

Which one would you go with and why.

I like Tikkas but that would leave me in 22-250 only, I've always wondered about the swift, and ain't getting any younger, the 223 WSSM may be another option.

I don't know what rifles are available in either the swift, or WSSM either

Although I'm not (I repeat NOT!) a Tika fan, I gotta say, my buddy's Tika Varmint in 22.250 is the most accurate factory rifle I've ever seen. And by "factory" I mean, not one single modification other than mounting a scope.

The 250's allot cheaper to reload for if that matters.

22-243 Middlestead AI with 52 gr Brawand bullets.

Gunner

Yep, or the similar 22 Cheetah. IF going with a very fast twist and long barrel, a 22/6mmAI would be outstanding. Most practical and easy to load for is likely the 22-250AI and it does not give up anything to the bigger rounds with bullets of 55gr or less. I have had one or two of most of the above, was planning my next 22-243when a pretty as all get out custom fast twist 220 Swift came to me. THAT one might become a 220 Weatherby Rocket someday soon. Another fun nostalgic screamer.

For pure speed, in a factory loading, you can't beat the WSSM. The drawback it is not available in the amount of rifles that a 22-250, or even the Swift, is.

My son shoots a Browning in 223wwsm, and it is fast and accurate. His coyote load is a 60gr Btip @ 3,700+fps. In Hornaday's reloading book, they achieved 4,600fps with a 40gr Vmax.

That barrel gets warm in a hurry though. Take along additional rifles if going after P-dogs.

Why not just go with the 243 WSSM? You'll have a more versitle rig.

I shoot a 70 grain ballistic tip at 3725 fps for coyotes and prarie dogs and it's better in the wind than the .22 cals. You will also have the option of the 105 grain A-Max at 3050 for targets and big game

That's not to mention 55 grain BT's at over 4000 fps if you'd rather for dogs!

It's a no-brainer...

Factory guns only - going to pick up something for fun

Prairie dogs aren't like shooting other stuff. Weather can be hot and there can be lots of targets. You'll have to deal with barrel heat and fouling. You really should have several guns. Of those three I'd get the 22-250. It'll heat up quickly, but slower than the others.

OK...the .223WSSM is dead...forget it...


The Swifto is hard to find a rifle in, very limited choices..

.22-250 is your Huckleberry...

I love the Swift, but the .22-250 is easier to locate..both brass and rifles..

I'd go Swifto AI with an 8 T. Fact is I dropped off my rig for my smith to do just that yesterday...<g>

And...the snow gophs are out and want to play catch.

Dober

Of the three options mentioned by the OP I'd go with the plain old Swift (though the Swift AI has been calling to me for a while).

The .223 WSSM will fry a barrel quicker than the other two. This isn't just because it uses more powder, but due to the very short neck, plus the shoulder that directs hot gas right into the throat in front of the neck. (That said, I have a .223 WSSM, but regard it as a coyote/deer round instead of a prairie dog rifle.)

On average Swifts shoot a little better than .22-250's. Don't ask me to supply a reason, but Ruger saw this years ago when they test-fired new rifles that were otherwise identical except for the chambering. Jim Carmichel has seen it in his own rifles (quite a few in both chamberings), and I've seen it in my more limited number (but still quite a few) of .22-250's and Swifts.

Barrel life is about the same in the .22-250 and Swift, due to the longer neck on the Swift. Plus, any rifle loony really needs to try a .220 Swift sometime in their lifetime!

The 223 wssm is a great round and love the extra short bolt throw of that shorter action 55 gr noslers and bergers are flat ugly on ground hogs 22-250 does seem to do better with a wider range of bullets...that t/c venture predator is a hell of a rifle for the price mine is under an inch with every load I've fed it. that's in 22-250

The Swift still rules supreme, certifiable varmint killing machines for over 75 years. Don't be shy, get one and join the fraternity of guys that know what's going on...

What do you guys like for powder in the Swifto? Years gone back I used the NSB's and 4064 or H380.

What do you think about Big Game in a Swift?

Thinking 75 Amaxes or Bergers if I can find either one these days...zeesh

Dober

I am using H414, measures easy and consistant. Seems to shoot well too...

That's right, I forgot. H414 is a powder I used a lot in my 22/250.

Thx
Dober

M.D.

if the long neck on the Swift gives a better throat life, then what are your thoughts on a 22/6mm Rem or a 243 necked down like a 6 International, to give a longer neck?

I have a Marlin XL 7 Long Action that I have had waiting to figure out putting another barrel on it ( for a switch barrel rig ) as I have been doing the 220 Swift/22.250 debate over and over in my head... I already have multiple 22.250s..

Also on a Swift, will a 24 inch barrel handicap performance, or is it worth going with a 26 inch barrel...or longer...

I have several barrel blanks, just haven't solidified which to settle on...

Mark,

let me know when you get that one finished...

I have a fast twist 22.250 ( one in 7 Twist ) and would be interested to compare velocities' potential...

the fastest MVs in that one come from ( surprisingly) using IMR 4064 & IMR 4895.. they run 75 and 80 grain A Maxes and match bullets right at 3350 fps out of a 24 inch barrel...

I'd have thought H 414 or RL 17 or 19 would have been a better performer, but they weren't...

Yeah I'd think that R17 would work fairly well. I'll have to give it a run.

Dober

Been using Vihtavuori N550 with the 52gr SMK's in my .220 Swift AI.

I agree. I tried to get him to buy a 243 but he had to have the wssm. Kids (sigh).

Dober, I have a 1 in 8 Twist Swifty, thinin HARD about going up to the similar 220 Weatherby Rocket. I will be curious to see what kinds of performance you get. I have a few hundred 75gr A-max's but plan on turning them into gopher missiles over a stout dose of 4064 or H-414.

Back onto the OP's topic, for the kinds of shooting you are describing and wanting to do you need a moderate speed 22 like a Hornet, K Hornet, 222 or 223. I have one of each of those. THEN, and only then, should one tinker with a super 22 as having only an uberspeed number will really crimp your style on a prarie dog or gopher shooting spree. You can only shoot the big uns a few times each day compared to a slower more overall much fun 224's. As well, a heavybbl'ed 222 or simlar will allow one to watch the hits and misses, and adds much to the fun. Running 36gr Varmint Grenades or 40gr BT's or V'Max's makes the 222 and 223 pretty fast, and a lot like the 220 Swift loads of old. 99% of ones shots are well within the easy kill range of those calibers, as well. We all like to talk and right about rodents at 500 yards and a lot more, but you will make more hits and have tons of fun blasting them at closer ranges, and closer ranges are much more common.

Good luck and good hunting.

PS hard to go worong, despite their homliness, with a pair of Savage rifles in 223 and 22-250 along with a 22RF of some type. Easy as that, despite my love for uberfast and odd wildcats.

super speed + paraire dog shooting = short barrel life if one is finding lots of DG , it takes lots of restaraint or multiply rifles or over heating will happen

I like R17 in the 1-8 twisted Rocket with the 75 and 80 A-Max, though the Berger 90 Target bests both from the bench at 200 yds..

Thanks! Just got to get out there now and give them all a run. I am leaning heavily towards making my Swift a Rocket.

I'm very happy to own a Swift (tang safety 77V) but thought I should tag this praise/wisdom in case I get wandering eyes some day.

Shrap -

What rifles is that, it sure doesn't look like a Remy

For an out of the box shooter it's hard to beat the 22-250. Brass is plentiful and cheap (you'll want a lot of it), and they're easy to make shoot. The other two are a bit more exotic and have the cool "everybody doesn't have one" factor, but unless that's what you want then the 22-250 is the king of battle on the prairie dog fields.

Coming year big 22's will be legal for deer and antelope in Wyoming. Looking for a walking varminter/coyote/light deer rig. Just about decided on 22-250AI but now thinking barrel length and twist rates and even bolt action vs Encore....suggestions?

65, My .22-250 AI is almost 20 years old, it has been a great coyote, varmit, turkey and whitetail rifle..(I hunted alot in states the .22 cal. was legal.) I tried a fast twist AI, but never warmed up to the idea..I prefer to drive 50 to 64 grain bullets out of my .22's..If I want a heavier bullet I will go to the next bigger caliber..the 64 grain WW, 63 grain Serria, and 60 grain Nosler Part. have been great killers on deer size game, as has the 55 grain Serria HPBT and 50 grain Blitzking..My AI has a 27 in number 5 barrel on it as that is the wt. and length I prefer..a number 4 would also be very nice..Wind is the enemy of the .22 caliber as you well know..Otherwise this has been great caliber for me..have also used the Cheetah, std. 22-250 and the great .220 Swift..they are all excellent..

Thanks for the input, buddy and I have been going to NE part of the state and shooting the river bottom whitetails last few years looking for a "moderate" rifle for that.

65, One thing I would point out and I think any .22 cal. shooter would agree..Even when these bullets exit, the blood trail can be slim..Although many may not like to hear it, I liked the high shoulder shot with these rifles..

Speed......means more heat...more noise..more recoil....

more expense....think 223 Rem 8 or 9 twist..53 V max @ 3400

or so with std load...or how 'bout the 204 Ruger w/12 twist and

the 40 V max @ 3800 on 26-27 gr charge and a bullet BC of .275 w

which is much flatter than any of the varmint .224 bullets..yes

these aren't your selections...but very good p/dog factory rifles

in Tikka or Savage of course...better yet go custom with 20

Vartarg..20 Practical..20 BR...or 223 AI...seeing your bullet

hits in the p/dog field is the best of all...even with a 14#

rifle in your caliber choices hits will be hard to watch...

one reason i am leaning to the 22-250 is that in a pinch i could find some factory ammo.
I know about the challenges of moderate rounds.....65 in my sign-on comes from my love of the 6.5 in general and 65x55 Swede specifically.
Bullet Placement!

Jeff,

being a 6.5 shooter, I also have multiple 22.250s, 223s, fast twist 22.250s... considering your stated desires, and performance of a cartridge ( factory ammo ) I'd recommend looking at a 243... with a fast twist, you can run bullets out to 105 grains with a 1 in 9 twist, heavier with faster custom twist... and on the low end, 55 & 60 grainers at 4000 fps.. bullet selection is as diverse as the 22 cal line, and better at long range wind bucking capability....

I really think the 243 is more versatile and flexible than the 22.250.... of course, I can be picky, as I have multiple configurations of both....

Thanks Seafire....one huge drawback to the 243....I already have several and would have no excuse to buy/build another rifle! My father and I hunt with a matched set of 1885 in 260Rem(me) and 243(his)

Tikkanut,

For closer range <400, pdogs with a set of 204 Tikka's one is a varmint, the other is a lite. Also have a 223 AR that's pretty good up to 400, and a A7 243, and 25-06 that is a tack driver.

But, I have shifted to 260's for Longer range Pdogs, or I fall back to the 25-06.

So me checking out the Swift or 22-250 is because they are rounds I haven't owned.

It is a custom rifle made by Dennis Olson, starting with a Sako L-57 action then a Lilja 27 inch fluted barrel and a select piece of American Walnut...

Man I would be afraid of scratching her, pretty rig!

I had it and 3 others built to shoot. When they aren't shooting, they sure are a pleasure to look at...

Can I have one?


Travis

It's a beautiful rig, I go with some pretty high end smiths but I go with Mc stock vs. wood.

yeah, I've always noticed that Shrapnel always has some pretty Cadillac stuff...

just gorgeous pieces of equipment...

he hasn't posted them in a while, but he sure has some great photos of the impact on PDs on the receiving end.. always love to see him post pics of his rifles and his hunts..

In a factory rifle, which is what you (OP) mentioned it would be hard to beat the standard .22-250 especially if you don't reload. The great .220 Swift beats it but is harder to find these days it seems. If one could be had and you reload it's a great choice.

One rifle in a hot pdog town on a typical summer day, that barrel will be pleanty hot, even a heavy varmint type.
I switch between a .222 Rem and the .22-250, by the time they are both hot, you're waiting for the little buggers to come back out anyway. I've also given a lot of thought to the .204 Ruger for the next pdog rifle.

Thanks for the kind words, I was out again today with a set of 222 mags. These can easily be considered speedy as well. Very accurate cartridge and still sends a 40 grain bullet down range in excess of 3800 FPS. Shot some prairie dogs and a harmless rabbit...

Cool stuff as always there Shrapnel!

I like those nice of Sakos...passed on one about 10 yrs ago, that belonged to a Doctor Friend of mine, who died and his wife wanted me to have it.. it was chambered in a 222 Rem....

I thought it should stay in his family...but I am sure it was taken and hocked by his nephew...

it was a sweet rifle.. he picked it up in Oz when he went down there for a few years to work on a sheep station in west Australia back in the late 50s and early 60s...

Ross Seyfried wrote an article about his pet 22-250 rifle and loads for Guns&Ammo years ago. Anyone have a copy they could scan me or let me know what issue it was and ill find one?
Thanks

Jeffrey, If your going to use strictly factory ammo I would go with the Swift, The 22-250 is easier on brass but in your case you can just clean off the swift cases and sell them on here as once fired and move on. I personally set my rifles up for specific distances when I hit the Prairie Dog battle field. This is how I do it. One thing I should mention is my Swift has a 1-8 twist I shoot both 52G and 75G bullets with a simple adjustment of the scope.

22 Rimfire 10- 200 yards
223AI 100-400
220 Swift 100-750
25-06AI 300-1000

A quick twist 22-250 built on a barreled action that mirrors a 700 CDL-SF and bedded in a McM McM Hunter would do the trick for me. My current 22-250 deer rifle is a Marlin XS-7 with a rechambered Stevens 200 1-9" ROT 223 barrel. That rifle and the 60 grain Partition is a sure deer killer within my self-imposed limits. No recoil, flat shooting, accurate, easy to load for, what more could you want?

Just have to put in my opinion on this thread since I have been shooting a swift a 22-250 or a variant of both for most of my adult life.

For some reason H380 seems to work well in a 22-250 but is the worst powder I ever tried in a swift, dont know how it is possible but H380 is somewhat stable in a 22-250 but is ultra temp.sensitive in a swift.
My powder of choice in the swift is H414 (Win760).

As for VVN550 I have witnessed it burn up barrel's in half the time of the "1" series powders like VVN160, an extra 50fps is not worth it to me.

For the 1-8" twist in both the 22-250AI or swift AI shooting the heavies, I like RL19 or IMR4831.

A 17 rimfire magnum would be fun. I see lots of them laying on the ground where I hunt.
If you reload the .223 with a 40 gr Ballistic Tip or V- Max at 3700 fps you will have lots of fun. My 220 Swift will throw the 50 gr as fast as a .223 will throw 40 gr. However the .220 Swift is loud and heats up fast and has more recoil. But if you like special effects it is your huckleberry! Before I owned a .220 Swift I had a 25-06 with 75 gr hp @3500 fps. It turned prairie dogs into three stage rockets!
Enjoy while it is still legal.
whelennut

I gotta agree with the fella that said .204 with 40 grain Vmax. Speed, factory ammo, .20 cal components easier to find this year. Less barrel heat than a 22-250, but not by much. 50 rounds of Fiocchi factory for $30-40/box. Less powder, less heat. Lots of nice factory guns to choose from.

I love my .220 Swift Ruger #1V. But for prairie dogs you need to have more than one so you can let one cool while you shoot the other one. I think the .204 Ruger would get plenty hot after some shock and awe.
whelennut

Spotshooter, I bought the 220 Swift Ruger #1V and would do it all again!
whelennut

A picture of Beauty and the Beast.
whelennut