I’m looking to buy a new rifle and I am just curious to see what others might recommend for a new caliper. BTW I reload. I currently have a 223 in a Remington VSSF II that shoots great! But I need to buy a couple more rifles. Price isn’t necessarily a concern. I intend to use the new rifle for ground squirrels, jack rabbits and prairie dogs mainly. I’ve thought about a hornet in either 17 or 22. Also have considered a 17 Remington or a Fireball of some sort. I’m sort of leaning towards wanting a lighter rifle to carry a little easier than my VSSF. Not looking to build one. Have been looking at the CZ 527 since I’m real happy with my CZ 453 in 22lr. Don’t like the looks of the magazine but may buy the single round Calhoon mag. Thought about a 527 in a 204 Varmint but it’s very similar to what I already have. Do the hornets or fireballs heat up barrels as much as a 223 or 204 or can they shoot more before needing a break?

Any opinions on what would make for a good second caliber for varmint hunting? Also, I’m interested in bolt action.
Thanks.

teesh, I shoot a 221 Fireball. It's been my go-to coyote rifle for about 25 years. One of the things I appreciate about the Fireball is the trajectory, but not because it's the flattest.

Like most kids growing up, I pushed the limits of the 22LR so I familiarized myself with the looping trajectory. The Fireball seems intuitive to me in a way that makes shooting it reminiscent of my childhood forays afield with the 22. I have killed a coyote at 450 yards, but generally consider it ideal inside of 200 yards.
The barrel does not heat up much at all, but I intentionally keep the loads at 3000 fps. Hopefully I haven' given you the wrong impression about the fireball, I consider it ideal for almost everything I do while knocking around in the desert. It's a great little round and drops coyotes like the hand of God. Usually a small puff of fur and dropped straight down in their tracks.

If you talk to anyone that's spent time with one, I'm confident they'll say much the same. Great fun all around.

Thanks FB2. What weight bullet does the fireball shoot most effectively? Do 50 grainers work?
I have TNT’s, Blitz’s, SPSX’s in 50 grns.

I think so, but I shoot 40's. Nosler Ballistic tips.

It’s hard to go wrong with the 204 cartridge, accurate, fast, and deadly. I have a Rem 700 heavy barrel and one in sporter barrel also.
On the 221 fireball, I have a Sako custom. Great rifle and cartridge, but very limited guns chambered. The 17 fb seems to be a cartridge that really never took off after being commercialized. I like mine for PDs and have shot a few coyotes with it, but it’s not a “go to” coyote gun for me.
On hornets, I have a couple Anschutz 22 hornets. They are very accurate and fun to shoot. In my view they are an “ok at best” coyote cartridge, but great on rodents out to about 200 yards.

Get a CZ American in 17 Hornet.


I have the Varmint model, but an American would make a better walking rifle.


I am saving my nickles for a Howa Mini Bolt in 6.5 Grendel.

That's what mine is too. The Vixen action is pure gold for the fireball.

That sounds about a perfect split between 223 and a rimfire for ground squirrels, jack rabbits, and prairie dogs.

Of course a 22 Hornet wouldn't be bad, especially with some of the newer bullets like the 35 grain V-Max.

Hmmm. Since you have a .223, I would go a step up or a step down- .22-250 or .22 Hornet. Personally I would go the Hornet route.

If I were starting from scratch I would go .221 Fireball or .222, and plan on expanding up and/or down as money/inclination dictated.

Of course, handloading the .223 would expand its usefulness too. I've used .223's for everything from squirrels to deer, with cast bullets, varmint grenades, heavy cup&cores, and TSX's. Quite the versatile platform, as long as intelligent bullet selection is practiced.

Not that anyone cares, but the rigs I plan on toting to PA for coyotes over the next couple of weekends are a scoped AR .223 shooting 55 grain SP's, and an ancient Krag single shot, heavy barreled, 10x Unertl, .22 Maximum Lovell wildcat with 50 grain Blitzes at 3000+ fps for sh*ts-and-grins.

I have used some of the 35 grain V max bullets, thinking they would be ideal in a 221.

Darn things are so blunt that they are almost round. Did not seem to increase my effective range much.

At Hornet speeds and ranges I bet they would be just fine. I dont have a 22 Hornet, but I think I might try one of the pointier bullets in one....maybe one of the lead free types?

Made for the lever actions I guess

My gut tells me a 221 fireball is what you have a hankering for.

Some folks get turned off reloading 17 calibers, not me. I rather like reloading the smaller stuff. So I have no problem recommending a 17 Hornady hornet in the CZ 527 action with the single shot follower. choose your preferance light or varmint barrel.

the 17 hornet is the cat's meow when a guy mentions "not heating up the barrel". When it comes to colony shooting, my CZ 17 hornet is my go to medicine. Not that I don't like my .17 fireball, or my .17 Rem., or my .204. BUT none of them can hang with the little hornet when it comes to fast rate shooting and not over heating too quick. With a suppressor on the end, it's just almost too much fun.

I will probably get roasted for this, but the Hornady dies with the sliding seater make handling those tiny .17 bullets a breeze.

Trnco......is the cz527 threaded for a suppressor?

Jim I don't mind the sliding seater option. Yet I prefer the RCBS top loading option at considerable more expense. Need to do a little research to find the tall shell holder and the 17 FB seater die. works more consistent for my fat fingers.

Teesh, Do you re-load ? I grew up in the Ogden area, and while you have some great places to shop for ammo, it can be difficult at times to locate some of the odd ball calibers. Take this into consideration. It's no fun having a new .21 Fireball and spending $50 for a box of 20 rounds when you can get .22 hornet, .222 rem or .223 rem for $20 a box. As for a flavor of .17 cailber, seems most around here still with the .17 rem or .17 hornet. But ALL of them reload.

Good luck in your search.

They don't come that way but I had mine done. It's a hoot to shoot to start with and add a suppressor and a guy can't wipe the smile from his face while he's mowing prairie dogs down.

This^^^^^^^^^^

I agree with you about the magazine......especially for a walking varminter but if you can stand the price RVB will modify them to three rounders. The cost was $45 back when I had my 17FB done but it's double that now. Still worth it IMO.

http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/cz-527-rifle-magazine-conversion.html

Not by me.......I prefer Forster seating dies but they work the same way.

The picture on CZ's website looks like the wood stocked 527 American sporter comes with the M1 bottom metal now for the 3-shot mag. But it comes with the 5-shot magazine.

Does anyone know if this is correct?

Last CZ I purchased this last summer was depicted as offering the trigger-guard / mag-well at least prepped for the 3 round mag. Have to admit I was dissapointed to receive the rifle with the standard old trigger group that is dedicated to the 5 round mag. I was hoping for the simple switch over to the 3 round mag down the road. No dice!

CZ is not only talking of the mag-well going across the board to the relieved style found on the M1. In their advertisements they show all of there 527's with the M1 style trigger guard, relieved to accept the 3 round mag.

I feel this boarders on false advertising GRRR.

Unless you get specific description or have it in your hand to see the newer trigger guard I would not be expecting anything except the old style dedicated to the longer 5 round mag.

I would be lying if I said this did not pizzzz me off.

Hunterapp, thanks for the info. I kinda figured that's the way it was. Last 527 American I saw on the shelf had the old style trigger guard. And I think they're saving the fancy wood for the FS and other versions.

Are you planning on harvesting the fur or are you just shooting coyotes?
I harvest between 30 and 40 coyotes a year with a 204 / 40 gr Vmax which does an excellent job of preserving the hide as long as I do my part with shot placement. My longest ranged kill was 365 yards which is rare as most of my shooting is done at less than 200 yards. If you are not worried about the fur or don't mind sewing up holes then any gun will work. It's more about proper bullet selection and placement than anything else.

Tikka 1in8 twist 22-250.

Fast twist .22-250s are my favorite!
I also suggest a .22-250 with either a 9 or 8 twist.
My bullets of choice for mine are:
53gr Vmax or Nosler Varmageddons Good all around speedy bullet, used on deer and such.
80gr Bergers Used for deer hunting and 600 F-class open.

I would look for a .22-250 with 1:8 twist. I think that Whittaker guns was selling them in a Tikka for a while. More companies are starting to make them if I remember correctly. Having that fast twist and extra oomph is great for coyotes etc and longer range.

Somethings gone awry here with suggestions of barrel heating long range yote slayers.

teesh,

For what you describe and since you are a reloader, I recommend either the 17 Hornet or the 20 Vartarg based on the 221 Fireball case if you would consider doing a build. No barrel heating in colony varmint shooting IME with either and very accurate and easy to load for if you can find FB brass for the Vartarg or buy the 17 Hornet ammo from LAX and either reload it or sell the brass. 20 caliber is very good but .204 Ruger heats barrel too much IMO. 20 Vartarg with only about 18 grains of powder and 32 grain bullets works great for me in sporter or Varmint contour barrels and neither barrel heats up. I have two 17 Hornets and use the Calhoun single shot replacement instead of the factory magazine on my CZ .I have two Rem 700 based 20 Vartarg's. One with a Lilja varmint contour barrel and one a rechambered .204 Ruger Rem factory barrel on a Rem 700 SA with aftermarket follower to make it feed. I use the Varmint model as a single shot with a single shot follower to replace the factory mag. Good luck on your choice.

22Hornet, 222 or 223.

All of these cases are a lot easier and cheaper to load or find loaded, they're all made in walkabout rifles and they're the parent cases for everything else recommended.
That's also a good idea of what warms up and to what degree ( no pun).

A 221 case IMO, is an expensive way to avoid a 222.

.223 Rem and talk to Seafire about Blue Dot loads.

Ed

My 2 cents, Cooper in 222. Or maybe 22br or 22ppc.

Since you have a .223 you like, I'd either look at a .17 HMR if you don't have one, otherwise decidedly bigger. .22-250 is ok, .220 Swift is better, and a big 6mm or .25 is better yet. If you have something to handle the volume shooting already, a serious "pounder" can be a lot of fun. For a few years my only varmint rifle was a Ruger 77 VT in .25-'06. Stuff **died**. What it lacked in high volume, it made up for in per-shot "splat".

Tom

Another 223. Use the same load as you use in your current 223, there is a lot to be said for having rifles with like trajectories, it takes a lot of thinking (and missing) out of the game.

drover