I'm probably getting to you way too late as I just came across this site 11/23/06. I've had two Handis, 223 and 243. Both are great guns. I got the 223 first and shot nothing but Remington 55gr.s with no problem of sticking casings. Killed my lifetime whitetail buck with it. 12-pointer, real nice!!! Then got me a 243 and found after some case sticking problems that I better get me some Remington shells. Did so, problem solved. Wanted a 270 and ordered it and got it 11/14/06. Got to the house with it to mount a scope on and noticed when I opened it -- it did not click like my other two Handis. Come to find out, NEF/H&R about a year ago quit making the Handi with ejectors and went to what is called an extractor style. It sucks big time and ruins the gun's use for me in hunting whitetails. The extractor does not throw the spent casing completely out leaving an empty chamber to get your next shell in. The extractor merely pulls the spent casing out about 5/32" and you have to try then to get the casing out. Try that with gloves on... And keep in mind while doing so, you've got to navigate this task underneath your scope. So rather than opening your Handi and quicly reloading, spent casing ejected, you're fumbling around trying to get at 5/32" of an exposed casing compliments of NEF/H&R and the new extractor. So while your playing beat the clock, is that downed buck gonna get up? Even if it was a well placed shot (c'mon, be for real). My point is this. The new style extractor method in the Handis is rediculous and whoever came up with it at NEF/H&R oughta be fired. Those left manufacturing the things hopefully have sense to go back to the ejector. With the present extractor style in the Handis, all NEF/H&R is doing is creating a supply of junk iron in the market. If anyone still wants a Handi Rifle (extractor style) and they want it in a 270 cal., I've got one that's never been fired, is new right out of the box, has a stainless receiver, the rest is blue, is synthetic stock, and I'll sell it at a bargain compared to what you'll pay any dealer and tax. You pick up the freight. I do not want the thing...

You missed the Waterfowl section.

Duck hunt'in is puke.

Well, how much do you want for it? I hate the .270 Winchester but I could sell the barrel and get a useful caliber. Reloaders like the extractor over the ejector. Single shot hunting is just that, single shot hunting.

?????????????????????

So the AR-15, BAR and other semi-autos are spray and pray "tools"?

Having begun my firearm hunting experience with a single shot shotgun about 400 moons ago, I do understand the value of an ejector on a single shot weapon (which simply means it has no magazine, not that it can't be fired more than once). Ruger, BTW, gives one the option of setting the ejector to throw or simply lift the case. It comes factory set to throw though. Does that mean it really isn't a single shot?

For 4 or 5 times the money the Ruger should pick up your brass for you. I don't like the #1 personally but I wish they still made the #3. If a person is a good hunter, one shot is all they need. Faulting a product for working the way it's supposed to seems a little strange. A little research before you buy is a good thing.

If a person is a good hunter, one shot is all they need.


Hunting and shooting is 2 different things......

Okay, the secret's out, I'm not a good hunter. I think I've only knocked down three of the two dozen or so moose I've killed with a single shot. Most would have died anyway, but I'm more concerned with making a humane kill than with preserving an ego thing so the rest have all gotten more until they tip over. Sure I could still be using the old bolt M670 Winchester for all my hunting, but I like hunting with #1s and in the BG versions, I set them them to eject. Catching the case can be learned just like fast follow-ups with single shooters.

As for researching a product, I would think owning a couple already ought to be adequate research. I would be rather peeved if I ordered a new rifle only to discover that a significant functional change had been made whether on a single shot, a bolt, auto or whatever.

You should practice shooting more often or use an adequate cartridge. The function change is what the public asked for. Most people don't like ejectors. I don't like Ruger longguns at all because they are pretty innacurate unless you have them fixed by a gunsmith before you shoot them.

I love ejectors - open the action and catch the ejecting hulls with the left hand. Pretty simple.

One is as good as the other.

I know what you mean. My most recent hunt:



Ruger single shot - 45-70 - 246 yards. Point well taken. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Yep!???



Bone stock Ruger #1 - 150 yards, 300 Rem HP - 15-20 mph breeze, same 45-70. Shot prone across driftwood rest.

(What was your point - er, issue again?)

I would say extractors are extreemly deficient in popping the brass into my awaiting cupped hand. Not as good at that as an ejector where as I can simply flatten the left hand over the breech and those same brass pieces go no where.

Out of the box Ruger long guns almost never shoot well. They can be made to shoot. I don't have that much spare time.

I think the same applies to most humans, long or short.

My own experience with long arms has been more time tinkering to get my Rems to shoot well. The few Ruger examples I have have not required any work at all to shoot MOA enough of the time to easily make them useful as hunting tools.

I've never seen a Remington that didn't shoot very well right out of the box.

I've seen a few... I like them, 'cause they can be had cheap off the used racks, tinkered with a little, and then made to shoot superbly.

In fact, I have a stupid accurate .22-250, that was just such a Remington. Factory trigger setting sucked balls, bedding was buggered, and the screws were too loose.

Tweaked the trigger, sanded out the rough as a cob bedding job and floated the barrel, tightened the screws (first time they'd ever been touched... other than to remove the barreled action from the stock by me), and voila! A non-shooting Remington shoots great.

Sometimes, you just have to tinker, regardless of the rifle.

I read in Rifle that you can buy the Handi Rifles in "groups" with extra barrels, but if you buy a barrel seperately, you have to send the reciever back to the factory to be fitted.

This is news you need to know if you're buying outside the "packages" they offer.

Anyway, I like the extractor method better, since I reload. Don't have a Handi Rifle. I think my Encore merely extracts, not ejects.

I can name a dozen or more people, myself included, that will disagree with you until the cows come home about out of the box accuracy of any rifle.

Outside of a trigger job, most rifles are fit for hunting by just adding a scope and sighting in. Mind you, I'm not chasing a bug hole, and I don't shoot more than 300 yards, but I haven't missed anything that I've shot at yet. Where does the Reminton out of box accuracy advantage begin? I haven't found it yet.

In most cases, the rifle, whether a Rem, Win, Ruger, Weatherby, etc., is more accurate than the guy holding it.

IMO, that is the bottom line.

Well, at least we agree on the Remingtons. Any bolt gun that isn't MOA or better should be traded to those who don't need accurate rifles.

How many people own MOA rifle and just are not a good enough trigger man to know it? Or vice versa? MOA is relative to the person holding the rifle IME/IMO. YMMV.

While my most recent Remington shoots a lot of different ammo well enough for hunting and I haven't found the need to tinker with it, most Rems I've worked with have needed work to get both lugs to bear evenly. In fact that is a standard practice of the smiths I've dealt with when I've had Rems rebarreled. Will a rifle shoot well with only a single lug bearing most of the pressure? It can, especially if the load pressures aren't real high. Buying the Remington brand surely gives one no assurance that out-of-box accuracy will be stellar. They are, however, easier than many guns to get to shoot well with minor tinkering.

The only Remington I've ever seen that wasn't a MOA gun was a Model 7 in 7mm-08. It was a hair over MOA with Federal Premium ammo. After it's less than stellar performance on a small PA buck, I sold it and went back to the .308. If you can't shoot MOA then spend more time at the range until you can.

One of the best kept secrets regarding hunting rifles is that you don't need a 1 MOA rifle to shoot 2 or 3 MOA in non-bench and non-prone situations, nor do you need to shoot in either position to hunt humanely and successfully at most normal distances. I am much more impressed by the person who can shoot decently off his hind legs or from a typical field position than I am with one who can make itty bitty groups from a very controlled situation. I'm not a terrible shot, can shoot 1 MOA at 200 yards without much problem, but know that ain't nuthin' if I can't make my shots the way they present in the field. That's the only thing that really matters to me. Go right ahead, send that 2 MOA rifle back to the used gun rack. They make great hunting rifles for those of us who hunt things bigger and meaner than gophers.

I guess you'd be content with a Ruger then. Why accept substandard accuracy when it's easy to find? Personally I'm looking for 1/2 MOA.

Swampman1,

Are you a varmint hunter, or do you just like to spend a lot of extra time and money building and replacing things that really aren't broken? I realize that the Remington is the small block Chevy of the rifle world, and that lots of people have made lost of money making aftermarket parts for both, but putting a tricked out machine in the hands of an idiot doesn't make the idiot a genius. Look at NASCAR, give 40 guys basically the same setup and you'll notice that a quarter of them are the ones that win races, it's the indian that makes the difference, not the arrow.

As you can see from the pic posted previously, that Ruger #1 has potential, as do the other Ruger rifles I own. I have not messed with any of them to get them to shoot 1 MOA or less, just build the right loads. I cannot say the same for the Remingtons I use although with a bit of work they have also done well. I have discovered, however, that it really doesn't matter for a lot of big game hunting - but you do have to be able to shoot well from many positions.

Myself, I don't much care if my hunting rifles and loads are 1 MOA or not. I will not hunt with a bolt gun that drops cases feebly and maybe sometimes inside the receiver. I wouldn't and don't hunt with single shots that do. Hunting rifles ought to eject empties or, at least, provide that option.

NEF better figure out how to build an ejector that works. While I have no burning desire to own their single shots myself, I have looked at them as potential first guns for the kids when they are ready. They'll lose customers one at a time. I'm sure I'm not the first.

"NEF better figure out how to build an ejector that works."

They did and nobody wanted it.

i dumped my nef and was glad to do so.

I'm glad you did too. One more for me to buy.

if the remington is the chevy small block of rifles,then the nef must be a yugo with a header !!!

I see no reason to poor mouth Remingtons. The NEF Handi Rifle is probably the best buy in the firearms industry. MOA groups for under $200.00 with a little careful shopping. Of course most people will spend 3 times this much on a Ruger and then bitch about the 4" or 5" groups at 100 yards. A fool and his money are soon parted but the wise man shoots an NEF product. They aren't for boys that think spending a lot of money will make them a better hunter. They are for the seasoned woodsbum who fills his freezer every year.

i am in no way bad mouthing remingtons. its the second rate nef's that i (and many more people) have the trouble with. it's the poor workmanship,or the stocks cut from a fencepost, or the pot metal barrels,or all of the above.
but don't take my opinion,checkout the nef forum over at graybeard for yourself.
you can't make chicken soup from chicken $#!+ !!!

"but don't take my opinion,checkout the nef forum over at graybeard for yourself."

I've been there a long time...did you have a point?

Comparing anything to a GM product is like calling it junk.

NEF is the only firearms company around that proof fires every single gun. The workmanship is nice, the stocks are American hardwood and nicely finished. The barrels are American steel. If you had a problem with the gun, I'd say it was operator error as are nearly all problems with firearms. Rugers are pot metal. Remingtons and NEF products are steel.

the transfer bar safety broke out of my new nef at exactly 10 days old. the only operator error was in me getting suckered into buying one.
workmanship = huge amount of tool marks.
american hardwood basically painted.
and american steel.
one out of three- better than nothing,almost

Maybe if you could find an experienced shooter to show you what you are doing wrong, it would help.

Where, dear fellow, do you come up with this authoritative cluelessness? Rugers, Remingtons, Marlins, and Winchesters are all good guns relying on differing manufacturing methods. None, that I am aware of, is made of pot metal anymore than the pistons in your automobile or truck likely are. I did have a cast bolt handle come off from my most recent Remingtons which, BTW, cost me more than $70 even under warranty while the last Ruger I returned to the factory - it was a really beat up old rifle - came back with a repair bill plastered with "N/C" all over it. That cost a few dollars postage only.

It is true that Ruger uses cast metal in many of its components as well as aluminum alloys in some of them. They hardly qualify as "pot metal" anymore than do the similar castings used by the other companies, Remington not excluded. Remington does use sintered metal for its sights as well, a process I do not hold in especially high regard and about as close to "pot metal" as anything on any of them.

There's nothing wrong with using inexpensive rifles if that's what fits one's budget. There's also no reason to assume that those who buy more expensive rifles do so because they need them to overcome inadequacies in skill or wish to do it out of snobbish boorishness.

I guess British proof marks are some sort of cammo?

Your ignorance show in almost EVERY post about Rugers - from construction to price to accuracy.

i have read this from one end to the other twice. my 2 handirifles were sold because after a year of loading for them i couldn't get either to shoot tight enough groups to deer hunt with. i had a 243 and a 25.06. and swampman ,just why do you hate the 270 its only the best caliber out. oh, yeah the SAVAGE is the MOST ACCURATE OUT OF THE BOX RIFLE ...... PERIOD!!!!1111

I been ALL over the Marlin/H&R/Nef web site - not one mention of firing proof loads in any of their wares much less each and every NEF that goes out the door - care to provide a source for your assertation of said information?

I am curious as to how it compares to the British system or if they are identical.

srwshooter ,
straight out of the box- nef's don't even make good walking sticks.
like i said;
you can't make chicken soup from chicken poop!!!

This is an out of the box Ruger at 200 yards, I think the group spacing is my fault. Let us see what the NEF can do Swamper... Oh and I have other Rugers that shoot as well out of the box.

maybe swampy is getting his weekly lesson from an "experienced shooter". LOL

http://www.backcountryjournal.com/h&r1871firearmsfactorytour.htm

The big problem with Rugers is that sometimes (rarely)you'll get one that shoots OK. Most shoot about 3 to 4 inches at 100 yards. NEFs almost always shoot MOA or better. Personally I would choose the NEF over a Ruger even if the price were the same. For whatever reason the only Ruger longgun that isn't too bad is the 10-22.

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb97money.html

What are you smoking down there in the Swamp?

well, i'm going to have to agree with swampy on the rugers, i've seen alot of them sent back. but mainly the light barreled rifles.

I love Ruger single action revolvers and I have a bunch of them. Remington and NEF are the brands I look too for a longgun.

Still waiting to see the proof on NEF proofing their guns.

Have owned 6 Rugers - worst I EVER saw was 1.5 inches.

I don't doubt that NEF proofs their guns. They are affiliated with Marlin who also proofs every gun. Of course, so do Winchester, Remington, Savage, and, yes, even Ruger. I would venture that Ruger has done as much and probably more when it comes to pressure testing their arms than do most manufacturers. Evidence of proof firing can be found on virtually any factory rifle in the form of the proof mark located on the barrel just forward of the receiver.

Proof was provided, watch the video.

"Of course, so do Winchester, Remington, Savage, and, yes, even Ruger."

Actually they just proof a sample, which is typical of modern quality assurance.

Trusting folks, these then. Thankfully we don't live in litigious times or some of these same folks would be eaten alive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Funny, now that I think of it, even my revolvers on which I don't see proof marks have had carbon "burn" marks on the cylinders when they arrived "new in box." And the barrels were no dirtier than the barrel on any new rifle I have bought (which have always looked like they would have benefitted from an oily patch before being shipped.)

But thanks for enlightening me and, I'm sure, others of our ignorance about these "facts." It is truly nice to know that there are such high quality hunting tools being made so cheaply right in this country (never mind the obviously false rumor that the receivers are coming out of China). I will certainly let my friends know that they really ought to be using rifles which don't eject empty cases.......like any real hunter and marksman does. Matter of fact, Swampguy, you might want to book a hunt with one of these fellows. Or perhaps a hunt for brownies might suggest a more reliable weapon.

I'd use an NEF in the proper caliber for anything that can be legaly hunted in the world. I'd step up for Cape Buffalo with my .45-70 in a heartbeat. Any tool that functions exactly the way it's supposed to every time is pretty reliable in my book.

Here's a .30-30 with walnut stock, cut checkering, and a Leupold Rifleman. Weight 7 lbs...cost about $400.00.

Shoots a tad over MOA with Winchester factory ammo. I haven't worked up a load for it yet.

Looks like NEF has released the .45 Colt with the 20" barrel.

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.aspx

This guy sounds like the reincarnation of LEE 24. IMO

If LEE 24 thought the Handi Rifle was a great shooting bargin, then maybe he is pretty smart.

Lee had his moments.

I don't think it was the topic so much as it was the dogmatic presentation.......

Selling someone on the merits of an item is like a ball game; if all you do is defend it, you still don't win. And stepping on others to appear taller is a very weak offense.

I know some people find it offensive when others won't waffle and beat around the bush. Elmer Keith and Jeff Cooper were offensive to some folks because they knew what they were talking about and wouldn't sugar coat things.

I've got no problem with having things straight up. The problem comes when one tries to sell their opinions in that way when they obviously lack the breadth of experience that some of the more notable folks have. Saying things straight and trying to advance a cause by putting other things down are two different things. If your argument can't stand tall on its own merits, perhaps it doesn't stand all that tall. I'm sure even Cooper and Keith understood the dangers of the broad brush.

"If your argument can't stand tall on its own merits,"

It does....I wasn't the one that tried to derail the thread.

I wasn't giving opinions, just facts based on experience.

swampy, thats a total waste of good lumber, puting that pretty piece of walnut on handirifle.

If you could shoot this gun, you'd like it, I promise.

Perhaps you need a refresher. I know it would be fun to start this all over but I'll settle for a reminder:



It's a fact, the 270 isn't useful? ??????

Single shot rifles shoot one cartridge at a time just like bolt guns, levers, and semi-autos. There's no reason to assume that one familiar with their weapon cannot reload a single shot quickly, assuming the weapon can eject.



No other gun does that; there's no reason to think a Ruger should. The NEF isn't even in the same league as the #1.

The second comment there simply shows your lack of broad experience. It is a noble, if wishful, ideal. Unfortunately, it only fits limited realities.




I think we covered this pretty well already but, you seem to have forgotten...........

That was my opinion on the use of good walnut too. And I don't doubt that rifle probably does shoot. You haven't exactly made and endearing case for NEF rifles the way you've carried on however.

I wasn't trying to make a case, they stand on their own.

Most tomato stakes do.....

ha,ha teal- thats a good idea. probably the best use for a nef that i have heard of.