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Posted By: TheKid Flintlock Q&A - 10/01/20
So I know that we have several flintlock guys here, Birdy, KW, etc.

I have a flinter I got for a song years ago when I was working at a gun shop. The policy there was that muzzleloaders of any description were less than worthless due to there being no muzzleloader hunting season and therefore almost no demand. Taking advantage of that policy I bought a TC Hawken cap lock for a whole $25 once and more importantly for this thread I gave $50 for a new and never fired Lyman Trade rifle flintlock.

I brought the Lyman with me when we migrated back south with the intention of shooting a deer with it. I feel it’s silly the “Primitive” weapons allowed during our muzzleloader season and have always stuck with a sidelock using iron sights and loose powder. Just my personal prejudices and enjoyment of a little more challenging way to hunt.

I decided that this is the year that I kill a buck with the flintlock but I found last week when checking my sights and load that it may end up being a little more of a challenge than I bargained for. The gun shoots well enough for my uses, 4” 3 shot group at 50 yards using 90gr of Goex 2FG under a patched round ball and a priming charge of 3FG. But my gosh the lag time. Never a hang fire or misfire, just what seems like an eternity from snick to boom. I shot my two cap lock guns with the same load and standard #11 caps and they seemed like benchrest guns in comparison.

I’ve had almost no guidance, only reading a little online and shooting a really nice handmade long rifle years ago that the gent who made it was kind enough to let me try out. I don’t recall experiencing near the lag with that rifle, which was undoubtedly of higher quality than my Lyman. I don’t have access locally and don’t want to get bent over on shipping to source some 4FG or priming powder. Can I gently grind up a tiny amount of 3FG to fill my little priming flask? I probably have cheap “flints”, IIRC they’re agate and not flint. I do knap a little and could probably sort through my flint piles for a chunk of Alibates to try and make a flint, not sure if that would help at all.

So I’m all ears, fill my head with knowledge. Season starts the 3rd week of October so I don’t have a long time but I have a little bit to experiment and the “Range” is less than 5 minutes from my easy chair.
Posted By: chlinstructor Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/01/20
Calling Kaywoodie!!!
Posted By: klondike_mike Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/01/20
If you're getting a good spark from your lock and the pan powder is igniting try a little less powder in the pan. You want the flash to jump through the flash hole not burn like a fuse to the main charge. You might want to try 3F for both the main charge and the pan. If that doesn't help try picking the flash hole after loading. If all that fails you might have to open up the flash hole or even replace the flash hole liner. Good luck. If you don't like it you're not out much money. wink
Posted By: Old_Man Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/01/20
I have a GPR flinter. I'm not a fan, but I did have the same type of problems as you are. A few things to get out of the way, like you ARE using black powder? Substitues don't work out in flint locks at all.

Let's start with loading. Once you pour the powder in the bore, lean the rifle so the lock is down hill slightly and tap the side of the gun to settle the powder, specifically to the area of the flash hole. now seat the ball firmly against the powdercharge using as close to the same pressure as you can each and every time you load during subsequent shots.

As klondike said, less is more in the flash pan, 1/4 - 1/3 pan is plenty, (yes, so long as the amount being powdered is small, and the tools spark proof you can make 4F from larger granulations), while 4F is perferred, 3F will make your gun go bang. Now turn your rifle on its' side, lock up, with the frizzen closed, and tap the area of the lock several times to get a little priming powder into the flash hole, then, flick the rifle ,once, brisklly to shift the remaining priming powder away from the flash hole. The flash in the pan can now breach the air space in the pan and reach the flash hole instantly.

This should make the rifle at least have less lag time, at best fire as fast as your caplock.

Another thing you may want to look at is the position of the flash hole in relation to the top part of the flash pan. It will fire faster if the center of the flashole is aligned with the topmost part of the pan in such a way that looking at it the center of the flash hole appears to be "split" by the top of the pan. Too low, the priming powder can cover the hole and act as a fuse, too high isn't as bad, but inhibits rapid ignition sometimes.

Hope this helps you out.
Posted By: kaywoodie Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/01/20
All good advice given. Just enough prime to get the rifle to fire.

But,,,,, I am a bit snobbish when it comes to this subject.

Touch hole placement (when it is installed at factory or by builder) and lock quality is everything. The lock is the heart of a flinter. IMHO when you get a good mass produced flintlock rifle, you have an anomaly. If you want a good rifle, save your money and get a good custom rifle. Used or new. There are affordable rifles out there used that don’t cost much more than a factory rifle if you just watch for them. But on the average a good rifle is going to be at least a $1000 investment, give or take.

Now that being said, I know there are some good quality factory rifles out there. Chances are if you get one it will require some fine tuning by someone knowledgeable that knows flintlocks. I would rather spent my time shooting and tuning a good custom rifle. You will save money in the long run. And you will be much happier.

Just my two cents. Im sure ol’ Prairie Dog Shooter, TerryK, Hdredneck, Flintlocke and a few other dedicated flint shooters here have more good stuff to add. But for me it’s all about a top quality lock and touch hole placement.
Posted By: prairie dog shooter Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/01/20
Kaywoodie just about nailed it.

To add my two cents, factory produced flintlocks are an exercise in frustration. That flash hole must be aligned properly to the lock and that requires hand fitting. Something that isn't going to happen with a mass produced gun. The frizzen has to be properly hardened, and the geometry of the internal lock parts has to be right. If all that isn't right it will require a good flintlock gunsmith to correct it. If it can be corrected.

If you want to hunt with flintlocks follow the advice I was given a long time ago.

1. Don't buy a flintlock until you can afford a custom gun with a high quality lock.

2. Find an experienced flintlock shooter to help you through the learning curve.

A good quality flintlock properly loaded will not miss-fire. The lock time is just as fast as a percussion gun. I can get instant ignition using 2-f as prime.

Those factory flintlocks are good for plinking and display on the wall. I can't count the number of folks I know who got into muzzle loading with a cheap flintlock and gave it all up out of frustration. If you need to go the factory route due to a limited budget get a percussion gun. Those can be made to work reliably, a cheap flintlock not so much.
Posted By: TheKid Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
I appreciate the response guys. I’ll try it with a little less priming powder and see if that improves ignition at all.

May end up just hunting with on of my TC caplocks again this year.
Posted By: Sharpsman Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
Nothing much worse than trying to get into the shooting game with a half-ass firearm!

The sour taste of poor performance lingers long after the purchase of a cheap item!!
Posted By: Pappy348 Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
You can buy a good aftermarket lock for many of the mass-produced guns, but IMO it's lipstick on a pig. Better to get a good one from the get-go. My foray into flinters was with a Pedersoli Mortimer, which only required tweaking the touchhole liner to make it fast and sure. Not sure any coil-spring flintlock can work really fast. If you are serious about a flinter, do as the other guys said and spend the money,
Posted By: Mauser06 Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
Like many guys, I started with a production gun....a TC "Hawken".


I've killed numerous deer with it after I learned to shoot it.


I'd start with cleaning. 91% rubbing alcohol. Good Fresh flint. Clean the flint and frizzen. Ditch the cheap prepackaged flints. Find some good black english or french amber. If you have to use agates, the German agates can be awesome. Good ones are tough to come by. They are typically a white/clearing color...not the gray/black agates. Even though you are getting it to fire, more sparks can help ignition time.


I'm guessing you have an Allen key touch hole? I'd recommend replacing it with a screw driver sloted one.... actually, call Jim Chambers and order a White Lightning. There are knock offs. If it doesn't come from Chambers, it's not a white lightning. You'll have to order a bit and tap from them. Remove your touch hole, drill the threads out, tap the hole, install the liner. Cut off the excess nub and file it flush. Drill it out to 1/16". I forget the size I used. 90% sure it's their smallest...it worked fine on my 15/16" TC barrel. I'm not kidding when I say the difference is AMAZING. The drill and tap will cost a little bit...the liner itself is fairly cheap.

The Allen key touch holes put your main charge sooooo much further away from the pan. The white lightning is coned inside. Kernels of my main charge are literally right next to my pan. I have no doubt I could get my rifles to fire with now priming powder. Not reliably..but I bet I could do it if needed.

I wouldn't mess around with replacing the lock. I did it. And it wasn't a huge improvement. Ended up building another rifle with that L&R RPL lock I spent near $200 on.


If your frizzen is all gouged up, I'd replace it. Factory frizzens aren't great and need replaced occasionally.



Others are spot on. If you are into flintlocks and hunting with them, it'd be worthwhile to get a GOOD one. The production guns are literally the reasons so many myths and wives tales go hand n hand with flintlocks. They are very reliable, accurate and deadly. I've killed several deer and a spring gobbler in the rain with flintlocks.


Feel free to send me PMs if you have other questions or need more help. I am no pro but I've started building my own and I'm no stranger to them.
Posted By: Dillonbuck Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
The less is more on priming powder is crucial.
You don't really want to get priming powder in the touch hole either.
It is "flash powder", don't make it a fuse.

Think about this.
A spark hits the powder, the "explosion" goes into the hole.
If there is flash powder in the hole, or 1/8 inch powder over it,
That is blocking the "blast" from getting to the main charge.
Now, you lit a fuse that has to burn to the charge.

I shoot a T/C Hawkin and have replace the touch hole, not sure what it is.
Definitely not near the top rung of things, but you would not want to let
me ppoint it at you and try a primerless shot. I have experimented with that
some and 3-5 tries will make it go if it was a flint.

The point is any priming powder that is in or covering the touch hole is slowing
things down. Any more than necessary is just adding to the distracting
flash and smoke in front of you eye.
Posted By: Old_Man Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
I guess it's ok to chime in once again with the "fixes" that straightened my GPR out, made it lightning fast ignition time, and more accurate than I thought a flintlock could be. In reality, the only thing remaining of the original GPR is the stock, which also has been "tuned".

Out of the box the lock was horrible, so bad I thought they lubed the moving parts with sand, so first thing was to put an L&R lock in it's place. While dong the inletting to properly place the new lock I took special care to realign the flash pan/flash hole, so they appeared as thoth the top of the pan opening cut across the center of the flash hole. As you read in several posts, it's critical for fast ignition. The original motise didn't allow for this alignment, so I ended up with a little creative use of Accraglas Gel to achieve it, but it doesn't really show with the lock fixed in place.

The GPR I bought was part of the massive recall Lyman had when the barrel/hooked breechs were blowing up, and the replacement barrel Lyman sent me made the original lock look custom by comparison....it was virtually so "rough" it became unuable, the response from Lyman concerning this never came. So after discovering no quality aftermarket barrels available, I shipped the rifle out to Stonewall Creek Outfitters, and had Troy place a Rice barrel on it in place of the Lyman replacement barrel. The rifle I recieved back from S.C.O. was a different animal.

I now have near flawless igition, (I use only black English flints), and if I am able to figure how to post picture the target you will see is 9 shots fired successivelt at 50 yards, using .535 ball, .015 Ox yoke patch, and two different powder charges, Swiss powder, 80grs FFG, and 70grs FFFG. Goex FFFFG was the priming powder.

It said file was too large, and I don't know how to get around that....sorry.

Anyway, what I have now is custom gun performance rather than a headache,but the cost of the rifle, and aftermarket lock and barrel is over $1400, not counting aggravation.
Posted By: kaywoodie Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
Oh! And a pound of FFFFG will last a while. I still have a pound of Dupont around here somewhere. 🤣 ( but I keep it as a keepsake and use the GOEX I still have). I will also mention I get just a good ignition priming with FFFG too.

But, I generally use the FFFFG as I inherited several pounds. Should last several lifetimes!
Posted By: prairie dog shooter Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
"Anyway, what I have now is custom gun performance rather than a headache, but the cost of the rifle, and aftermarket lock and barrel is over $1400, not counting aggravation."

And for that price a good used custom flint lock can be had. Or add $100 and get a custom Hawken built from scratch. My point is, better to spend that money or a little more for a quality gun that works.

Powder Inc. advised me to order one can of 4-f to a case of 3-f ( 24 pounds 3-f to one pound of 4-f ) I haven't ran out of 4-f yet.

All the advice you have been given about priming is a good place to start. But you will need to experiment to see how your gun performs best. My flintlocks are fast when I cover the entire bottom of the pan with the powder level just below the flash hole. And the flash hole must be picked. These are Chambers liners. Getting the flint properly aligned with the frizzen is important.

I have shot in three day competitions where I was the only flintlock shooter who did not have a miss-fire or a hang-fire. I attribute that to three things; I use Chambers deluxe Siler locks. I clean the rifle and lock properly and I load the gun properly.

On one of my first rendezvous with the Dallas Muzzle Loading Gun Club, I watched the flintlock shooters shoot a match where the rifle had to be held upside down above your head. And it was raining all day long. Every one of those rifles fired on the first hammer fall. I learned a lot about flintlocks from those guys.
Posted By: flintlocke Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
Kaywoodie and Prairie Dog nailed...nothing more needs said.
Posted By: kaywoodie Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
I believe Prairie Dog was top shooter at this years Rocky Mountain Rendezvous up at Creede Colo.

We had a great time. Unfortunately for Prairie Dog, we camped right next to his camp. 🤣.
Posted By: Gringo Loco Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
I drilled and chamfered the touch hole on my .54 cal Lyman Deerstalker since I had a few flash in the pans when I first got it. Don't recall for sure the size bits I used, but have read that .059 to .062 is about right for the touch hole. 1/16" = .0625 is probably what I used and something larger obviously to chamfer. I've had reliable ignition since. As for time lag, I've only shot this muzzleloader using 4F so have nothing else to compare that to. I'm sure the premium locks are much better though.
Posted By: flintlocke Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
If you plan tweaking your touch hole, Gringo's .0625 is about optimum. May I suggest also that if you chamfer the hole to shorten the length of the flash hole, do so on the inside, leaving a perfectly smooth flat face on the pan side. You may want to avoid aftermarket touch hole liners with female hex or overly large screw slots. My theory is turbulence of the pan charge flame can induce misfires. Some of the lads above stated that the position of the hole is critical in relation to the horizontal line of the pan when viewed from the side...that is very important. The old English gunmakers referred to it as "sunset". With a little patience, you can alter a poorly positioned touch hole by "timing" the threads to an eccentrically drilled touch hole from a stainless alloy bolt. Very little can be accomplished with the geometry of mass production locks. However some of their shortcomings can be reduced by using the finest English flints and possibly a hardening of the frizzen by a gunmaker of known repute. One old man's opinion.
Posted By: kaywoodie Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/02/20
Flintlocke is spot on. .0625 is what I have used!
Posted By: TheKid Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/03/20
The rifle in question may or may not have an aftermarket touch hole. It is SS and has a screw slot as opposed to a hex, it is also deeply chamfered on the back side. I would guess that the touch hole is smaller than .062 but I haven’t put a pin gauge in it to verify.

I’ve never had it misfire, probably only shot it 30-40 times but it hasn’t failed to go off. I may just be filling the fan too full of priming powder honestly.
Posted By: DigitalDan Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/03/20
Lot of conversation on a good topic. Guessing that most plinkers have a learning curve to deal with when picking up their first flinter. I surely did.

.45 cal that I shoot with a .010" patch and .440 ball. A .015 patch actually shoots a little better, but requires a ball starter which I eschew out in the field. Heaviest charge used to date has been 60 grains, but 50 is where is shines. 4f in the pan, 3f in the barrel. Good advice above re: feeding the flashpan. Don't filler-up.

Lock time is the educator. Part of the package IMO and if one wishes to succeed they simply have to adapt. Secret to success it found in the follow thru after the trigger gets jerked. It is the single most important a rookie has to learn.

Though not a newbie with muzzle loaders I learned more about offhand shooting with the thing than anything else. Started on the bench and was far from happy with the results. Came back for round 2 with mild apprehension and half way thru that finally took it off the bags and stood up. Well, it got better and before I went home realized the significance of the delay between trigger break, klatch, spark-poof-boom. OK, what good is a boring gun, hey? Somewhere around round 4-5 I started getting my ducks in a row.

50 yards, offhand, and I can do this 24/7 these days. The high 1 o'clock hole was from a clean bore, and the both targets were shot back to back. Group on the right is about 1.5".
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



Posted By: TheKid Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/03/20
Good stuff Dan.

As an aside, my uncle has an old kit “Kentucky” rifle he put together back in the way back. It’s a .45 cap lock and actually has a maple stock with some fiddleback in it. When he built it the instructions included a section on filing the sights in for your chosen load. Not knowing any better he zeroed it for a .440 ball over 60 grains of 3FG. He’s shot several deer with it and I killed one with it when I was a kid. All of them were one shot and down affairs. That little bitty ball is deadly even when pushed with a light charge of powder.
Posted By: gophergunner Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/03/20
Originally Posted by klondike_mike
If you're getting a good spark from your lock and the pan powder is igniting try a little less powder in the pan. You want the flash to jump through the flash hole not burn like a fuse to the main charge. You might want to try 3F for both the main charge and the pan. If that doesn't help try picking the flash hole after loading. If all that fails you might have to open up the flash hole or even replace the flash hole liner. Good luck. If you don't like it you're not out much money. wink

This was going to be my first suggestion. I think most guys starting with flinters probably use way too much priming powder. I do prefer 4F, and I never use the manufactured flints unless I absolutely have to. I'm lucky to liive close enough to Track of the Wolf to get high quality supplies and professional advice there. There are definitely faster locks than Thompson or CVA. A good lock has a shorter throw, and a better frizzen. Correct adjustment of the flint in the lock makes a difference too. Good luck with your flinter.
Posted By: prairie dog shooter Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/04/20
Quote
Unfortunately for Prairie Dog, we camped right next to his camp. 🤣.


Hey, as long as you bring the wine you are always welcome!
Posted By: kaywoodie Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/05/20
Originally Posted by prairie dog shooter
Quote
Unfortunately for Prairie Dog, we camped right next to his camp. 🤣.


Hey, as long as you bring the wine you are always welcome!


Generally never a shortage of libations around our camp! 😉
Posted By: n8dawg6 Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/05/20
sure was havin a hoot w mine last saturday:

flintlocky shootin

matt avance lefty southern rifle in .50. .490 swaged hornadys, pillow tickin, goex 3f in pan and 50 g 3f main charge. half the time it works every time.

actually it works 100% of the time when i follow the edicts: sharp flint, no fouling on flint or frizzen, vent pick between shots. one thing i had learn is that you have to use ENOUGH priming powder. if you put the priming power on only one side or the other, you might miss some sparks. i fill up the pan from end to end, but i do NOT fill it to the brim.

once your subconscious figures out that the flinter is gonna go off every time bc you followed the edicts, they can really be a hoot.
Posted By: n8dawg6 Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/05/20
oh yeah, it helped me to start off at 25 yds w the offhand flintlock shooting. over time i have gotten to shooting it at 50 offhand w increasing success. you have to leave it still thru the flash.

also it helped me not to get overgunned. the less recoil the better, at least until youre used to the firing sequence
Posted By: Terryk Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/05/20

I also agree that keeping the loads mild when practicing is a good strategy. Even just flashing the pan/dry firing is a good idea.

Back to a slow lock, maybe try adjusting the flint so it shaves, not strikes the frizzen. You can adjust the flint angle with something like a match stick under the leather.
A good flint should last dozens of shots if it is not smashing into the frizzen. If it is smashing, it will be bouncing/chattering and slow. A good shave will throw a consistent spark and will be much faster. Naturally you need good flints. Track of the Wolf is probably the best place to get them.

A T/C or Lyman lock are pretty slow compared to aftermarket locks. A RPL replacement lock is usually much faster. You will have to shave some wood behind the lock, but it is pretty easy for most guys with patience. Naturally since the rifles are mass produced, the flash hole may not line up well, but the only way to see that is trying. I have a RPL on a TC, and is is significantly faster, and more reliable. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/759/1/LOCK-LR-05-F
Posted By: tddeangelo Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/06/20
Having hunted for years with TC flintlocks and then a Lyman...and then making the change to custom guns....I have a little exposure to these things.

Factory guns are capable of adequate ignition. They will never be the equal of custom guns, but that's not the intended goal of the production guns.

A prolonged delay on a Lyman is not usual. At least, if my perception of what the OP is describing is correct.

I have three custom flintlocks, two with Chambers locks and one with a Davis lock. My TC Renegade will never be their equal for speed of ignition, but it killed a bunch of deer with me, and it was useable. Lyman's shouldn't be significantly different, from the 3 or 4 Lyman's I've messed with. Older ones are generally considered better than newer ones, too.

That said, loading procedure will have some influence on this, as will priming procedure. I've noticed some folks load a gun and then dig around in the vent with a pick like they're digging for lost treasure. Not only should this not be necessary, it's actually detrimental. You're digging main charge powder AWAY from the vent, making ignition tougher to accomplish.

The advice to get a White Lightnin' or internally cone the existing vent is spot on. The closer you bring the main charge to the pan, the better. In my custom 62-cal rifle, the breech has a drilled vent (no liner) and is internally coned. I can literally SEE my main charge through the vent, and the ignition is superb. I killed a whitetail doe with that rifle last January at 105 yards, actually.

If you're lighting the pan, you're lock is getting that far in life. It's now down to a vent issue....or a prime issue. As noted, if the prime is deeper than the vent hole, you're gonna get a delay. Also, don't get into the practice of "banking" prime to the outside of the pan. I believed that for a while, and it doesn't really help anything. It hurts, actually, because your ideal prime situation is about 1/3 of a pan, spread evenly across the bottom of the pan. This "catches" the most spark and get the pan going in its entirety much faster.

Even with a production lock/gun, the delay should be quite short.
Posted By: TheKid Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/06/20
I’ve noticed a few times that I’ll get instant ignition like a cap lock or faster. But it’s not been repeatable or consistent. I’m guessing it’s got more to do with my priming technique than anything. I need to get back out and shoot it some more and fiddle with the priming method until I get it figured out. I know it’ll never be the equal of a custom but I’ve killed deer with a recurve bow so I should be able to master this at least adequately if I can achieve some semblance of consistency.

Thanks again guys
Posted By: tddeangelo Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/06/20
Custom stuff is just better, but it's not required to bag game. A Lyman, unless something is grievously wrong with it, will take game just fine if used properly.

I wouldn't necessarily say shooting a recurve will mean much of anything when it comes to shooting a flintlock. I've seen flintlocks humble some folks who are otherwise superb shooters.

It's really a totally different beast.
Posted By: TheKid Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/07/20
The most effective trick I’ve figured out over the years with a recurve that I think would apply to the flinter is to get so close you almost can’t miss. That’s all I meant wink
Posted By: kaywoodie Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/08/20
I had a little spike buck jump the lock on a pretty fast Northwest trade gun once at no more than 15 feet! I was practically right on top of him in a live oak watching game trail. I swear I don’t know how he did it. 😁

But he did. 😁
Posted By: n8dawg6 Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/13/20
Originally Posted by tddeangelo
If you're lighting the pan, you're lock is getting that far in life. It's now down to a vent issue....or a prime issue. As noted, if the prime is deeper than the vent hole, you're gonna get a delay. Also, don't get into the practice of "banking" prime to the outside of the pan. I believed that for a while, and it doesn't really help anything. It hurts, actually, because your ideal prime situation is about 1/3 of a pan, spread evenly across the bottom of the pan. This "catches" the most spark and get the pan going in its entirety much faster.

absolutely 100% agree with this!
Posted By: buttstock Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/17/20
1). Check the level.of spark your lock generates. With unloaded, unprimed rifle, turn off the lights ( dark room). Frizzen down, pull back hammer to full cock. Pull trigger and observe sparks. If they are white and multi-branched, you have a frizzen with good high carbon steel. If the sparks are straight and orange/yellow, you have a low carbon fence. White sparks are much hotter than yellow/orange. White hot branched sparks showered onto a priming charge ignites it very quickly. Cooler temp straight orange/yellow ignite priming charge poorly.

It has been decades since I bought it, but there used to be a muzzle loader supply store than offered high carbon replacement frizzens for both T/C and Lyman. I think they were located in Ohio. (Not sure if they are still in business. ). It made a huge difference to my t/c flinter, (with Green Mountain barrel). My other locks (L&R, large Siler match) have high carbon fences/frizzens which spew out nice white hot branched sparks for excellent detonation of priming charge. Some muzzleloading gunsmith can put a high carbon sole or face on the frizzen for good sparking. Find one and get it done. No spark, no boom.

2). Sharpen your flint. File the lower 1/4" of a 3 penny nail flat on two sides until it is about 1/16" wide. Then, file the 1/16" edge down about 1/32 to 1/16" to form a right angle (90 degrees) step down ledge along the full 1/4" face of the 1/16" wide section. With unloaded, I primer rifle, place the right angle notch on the edge of the mounted flint in the lock. Tap the nails head gently. It will spawl off a piece of the leading edge of the flint. Reposition the notched nail about 1/8" further along the flint, and tap it again. Repeat until the entire leading edge of the flint is freshly sprawled. This is now a sharp glint for best sparkling ( if your frozen is made of good high carbon steel). The shallow the ledge notch, the less flint will be sprawled off which extends flint life.

Warning! Doing this will make your flint scalpel sharp, as it speaks along natural lines for the sharpest edges. Similar to freshly snapped musician knives and scalpels. Watch your fingers, you can easily cut them when priming the pan. A very sharp flint throws the most sparks, for best primer powder ignition (if you have a good high-carbon frizzen.

3) try flint position of "flat side up" and " flat side down.". Some just spark better one way or the other.

4). properly position flint in jaws. With unloaded, unprimed rifle , place flint in jaws of hammer clamp. Put frizzen down. Pull hammer back to 1/2 cock. Loosen jaw screw to allow moving flint until the sharp leading edge of the flint is just off the fence. Tighten hammer jaws to secure flint.

5) consider back-boring the touch hole liner. This makes it thinner, and positions barrel powder closer to the touch hole foe quicker ignition from pan flash. Use 1/8 to 3/32""+ diameter drill bit from inside of the removed touch hole liner, to leave about 1/16" thick touch hole liner wall. When you load the barrel with powder, tap the side of the barrel to allow powder to work into the back-bored area of the touch hole liner for close proximity to touch hole/flash.

6). Touch hole should be level and centered with front/back sides of the pan, where the pan abuts up against the barrel/touch hole liner. As stated before in other posts, keep the pan primer charge away from the touch hole, to avoid a slow fuse ignition. You want the priming charge flame to jump into the touch hole for quickest ignition. A hunting technique is to quickly twist the rifle quickly with you wrist to throw the frizzen-covered powder charge away from the touch hole, to account for possible positioning against the touch hole. In match competition, it is pretty easy to keep the initial position of primer powder away from the touch hole (maybe1/8"? away) and also almost full length across the pan.

7). Try to find some FFFFg (4f) powder for the pan. 4f is quicker than 3f. I tried some 7f ( yes, FFFFFFFg), it was supposed to be lightning quick. I did not notice it being any faster ignition than 4f as priming powder. DO NOT attempt to grind 3f powder into finer particles. Very dangerous. Big no no!

A properly tuned flint lock is just as fast as a cap lock. A flinter that goes "klatch- boom" is not tuned.

Flints
#5 for t/c
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/178/1/FLINTS

T/c frizzen
https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/tc-replacement-frizzen-please-read-description/

Since you bought the rifles for a song, consider a quality RPL-L&R complete replacement (essentially drop in) flintlock action (~$185) for the t/c flinter rifle. It is a MUCH better lock, with excellent geometry, build quality, and materials.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/759/1/LOCK-LR-03-F


Posted By: Poconojack Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/18/20

Many enjoyable hunts with a 54 cal. TC Renegade over the years. The only times I can recall not getting ignition was when the powder was damp or when it was raining or snowing.
Posted By: Ogdonia Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/20/20
Tag. Good info here...
Posted By: Dillonbuck Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/20/20
Always wanted to put a sling on mine, never will.

I carry mine with my right hand between the lock and rear sight,keeping
the lock under my forearm and the barrel down in bad weather.

Guys I hunt with have slings and rain or snow melt runs down the barrel
to the lock. They have a bunch more trouble than I do.
Posted By: flintlocke Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/20/20
If ye affix a sling to ye long gun, ye shall find it handy for fending branches and dragging deere. If it be wet, and if ye sling be Properly attached, ye shall carry it down side up, with thee muzzle forward and down and ye locke tucked betwixt upper arm and ribs. If ye have not a proper English waterproof pan as ye should, ye can seal the rim of ye pan with a bit of beegum, which shall not vex ye priming charge.
Posted By: kaywoodie Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/21/20
I use a cows knee when needed.
Posted By: Terryk Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/21/20
As the powder gets finer, it soaks up moisture quicker because it has more surface area. So when wet I go with 3F. I also use a powder coating that was originally used to keep natural feathers from getting wet on arrows. Most call it fletch dry. It slows ignition, but you can pour water on the powder and it runs off like a ducks back.
https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/rmc-wonder-powder/
Posted By: stantdm Re: Flintlock Q&A - 10/29/20
I have a custom smoothbore flintlock. The best advice I got was from Jim Chambers. He said to drill the flash hole to 1/16" if all I am doing is hunting with it. He also said that if you can see powder granules in the touch hole you will get ignition. He also noted that in testing the location of powder in the pan it makes no difference where it is. I used 4f for a time but have moved on to 3f and as long as the flint is producing a good spark I get consistent and fast ignition.
Posted By: Bob_B257 Re: Flintlock Q&A - 12/20/20
There is a 45 caliber Slow twist TC Stone Swingin Hawken in my safe that will never leave since it came from my Dad. He never fired it. And when I first started with it I was about ready to shelve it on the mantle also. But along the way about 8 or 10 yrs ago I stumbled on the article Ross Seyfried wrote on getting a factory flinter to go.
There were a few key points he made that others here have covered. The two that helped me most after getting rid of all but true Black were the pan depth and touch hole. His advice to bore out the inner side of the liner really made a huge difference in the Clack-----Boom to a swooshboom. Definately a huntable proposition.
Still darn exciting to have a fire in your face with that 4F pan charge going off.
Really wanted this gun to shoot the Conicals, but that has never played out. Spray and pray describes all attempts with the longer heavy "Bullet"
But .440 round balls with .010" Ox-Yolk patches are quite accurate(at crossbow range for me). If my memory is correct the twist in mine is closer to 1-60 vs the more common 1-48.
Still would like to run a round ball through a whitetail with this rifle. Just to complete the circle. A squirrel or three with a light charge would be a close second, But my recurve Bow is in the woods way more these days. However the recent 10" of snow right in the middle of our Black Powder season has me cleaning the barrel and looking to get out to the range to re verify the zero.
Thanks to all that posted on this, a lot of good tips and some up to date links to good stuff that works. Best I can tell Ross's article is not on line any more.
Posted By: thumbcocker Re: Flintlock Q&A - 12/20/20
I like the french amber flints plus the black english ones.
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