Looking to buy my first Muzzleloader. Input please. Using for deer. Fire away.

in-lines are easier with 209 primers ,but the old Hawkins are kinda fun to play with when its warm

My Hawken went off at -7° for my first muzzleloader kill.

I have both. A kit TC Hawken and a CVA Optima. 2 completely different animals. Patched RB for the Hawken with FF and a copper bullet with 777 or BH209 for the scoped CVA.

Do you have anybody that can help you that is knowledgeable on muzzleloaders?

Do you want to use a muzzleloader, or just have extended season opportunities.


If the latter, go smokeless in-line if it's legal.


If the former, sidelock.
Flint is cool, but there is a learning curve and a couple extra handicaps.


Again, just hunting or a challenge?

Extended season.

Smokeless in-line if you have the $$

Otherwise a CVA Optima V2 or Accura would be nice.

Open country or woods ranges?

If you don’t want to play frontiersman, and your state doesn’t have any restrictions on bullets, propellants, sights, or ignitions, one of the break-action in-lines is the easy button. If I were going to play in that pool again, I’d start looking at the CVAs. There’s also an American-made model I can’t quite recall that’s very light and handy, and also pretty spendy. One of the YouTube Northwoods deer hunting shows pushes that one.

Too many options out there! Lol! All comes down to what "style" interests you and how much $ you want to put into it. Regs will help decide what you'd like where you plan on using it. Here in IL and WI, it only has to be a front stuffer to qualify as a muzzleloader. Any kind of ignition system, scoped, whatever. All good as long as it loads through the muzzle and meets a bore diameter requirement. Been a long time since I hunted MN, no longer remember their regs, my BIL has hunting property over by Askov.

If you could narrow it down some, would/could go a long way with recommendations.

I have always shot flintlocks. And patched roundball. Several years ago PA put in an early doe season for "muzzleloaders" that included in-lines. I never bothered. A good flint, pan filled less than half-way, and it goes off. Rain is problematic. Even snow. In the snow, I don't prime the pan. I insert a wood toothpick into the touch hole and lower the pan. If a shot is about to present itself, I remove the toothpick and prime the pan.
Lewis and Clark covered the entire western half of the country with flintlocks.

I concur a break is definitely the easy button, especially with B209, but you'll likely need the 209 breech plug for good ignition in cold weather.

Cleanup is a breeze with standard solvent with 209, but they have gotten mighty proud of the stuff. Graf has it in stock right now... $67.99 a jug 😬

Smokeless is the way to go if you're looking for performance and less cleaning. I am not sure but I think the cost per load is less also with Blackhorn being so expensive. Budget is also a factor as a basic CVA can be had for under $300 and a smokeless break action would be about $800 with customs going up from there. The terrain you hunt will also be a factor, I wouldn't go smokeless if I was only shooting out to 200 yds.

Why I am burning 777 for now. May pick up some White Hots just to have something on hand should 777 become unobtainable.

I wouldn't pay $67.99 for it either. I stocked up back when it was $35-40 and that was still a bitter pill to swallow back then. I doubt I'll ever run out, but if I do I'll probably just go back to Swiss or Graf 2F. It shoots fine, I just hate cleaning BP.

All I shoot anymore, Goex FFg and FFFg...

A good starter is a TC Impact. Truthfully about any inline will do the job. More money just means more bells and whistles. My only advice would be to stay away from any that has plastic sights, unless you plan on and it is legal to use a scope.

Thanks for all the input. Gonna pick up a CVA Wolf 2 50 cal.

Look at Muzzle-Loaders.com

The other day they had the Optima V2 as cheap as the Wolf V2.

Are there some good books for someone who has never done muzzleloading?

I had a Lyman black powder book for some years
before I ever owned and shot a muzzleloader.


Pretty informative book with various loads also

The old books have lots of good info pertaining to BP and some of the substitutes. Most of that is “timeless”, so to speak. Help with smokeless might best be acquired from the makers of the conversions.

The current dearth of priming supplies for all methods, is a drag on the whole sport. I’m well-supplied for what I shoot, and also picked up a bunch of BH prior to the crisis. If, as I hope, I can get the Mag Spark to work with it in my Renegade, I’ll have multiple options to get me through this mess.

Y’all never cease to amaze me. BH209 goes from ~$1/shot to ~$2/shot and y’all change everything about how you hunt. Those of you forsaking BH209 - how many times a year do you pull the trigger?

Good point. The guy say he’s mostly interested in ML to prolong his hunting season. He’ll likely shoot less than 25 shots per year. More would be better but many guys shoot much less.

One thing I’ve observed is that many folks never do shoot enough to learn their rifles. They get a rough sight in, then assume all kind of things from there. Don’t be that guy. Learn the quirks of the game and enjoy muzzleloading for what it is.

Not sure how available it is lately with Remington reorganizing but the Rem 700 Ultimate Muzzleloader is a great package.

Two of my friends and I have one. We altered ours to the finalized package over several seasons. We got the Arrowhead breech plug, switched to Blackhorn 209, installed timney triggers, and evolved through several bullets. First was the sabot 45 cal 250 gr bullet Remington sells made by Barnes. It accounted for my first animal with it, a cow elk, at 75 yds. Next was the Thor 50 cal 300 gr bullet also made my Barnes, in .502" diameter which we all used. One friend got a dandy bull with this bullet. I shot a cow elk at 280 yds with it. The finalized bullet is the Fury Universal 50 cal 320 gr. We are getting 2200 fps with that bullet.

Scoped the Fury is good out to 400 yds. I shot a coues wt and a cow elk with the Fury this season. I would not have had any big game hunting if it weren't for MZ tags.

That’s a natural consequence of buying just enough enough to get you through a season. Makes you vulnerable to supply and price swings. Since BH is stabile over time, it made sense to me to buy a 5-pounder late in 2020 when it appeared. Came out to $50 an actual pound, not a jug of 10oz or less. Not everyone has the money, I know. BTDT myself.

It works for CF loads too in a pinch.

I really dont shoot that much anymore. WHen I was younger , I started reloading. I shot .270 Win. , that got somewhat expensive so I shot a 22-250. Then I stopped shooting cause I was much more interested in bow hunting and made sense with a 4 month season instead of 9 day gun season in Wisconsin. I shoot my bow so much more . I even designed my house to a ranch so I can shoot 20 yds in my basement in winter . Then I got into muzzleloaders . An Encore 50 cal. , then TC Impact. They got boring and expensive too. Just the sabots were high. I bought a TC Hawken, then a custom barrel just for roundballs for $300. Then a TC Renegade , then another TC Renegade . Now I only shoot my TC Renegade a little bit. The problem is , I only hunt S.E. Wisconsin public land that is loaded wit hunters and pressure is so high they just wont move by muzzy season and thats after the gun season. It is hard to even see a deer by then, not to mention get one in range. I do like my TC Hawkens and Renegade more than my modern muzzys though. I make my own patches , roundballs too. and is very cheap to shoot. About 30 cents for 60 gr. of black , 12 cents for the #11 cap. I still have some caps I payed 5 cents for and some powder I payed $25 a pound for.

BH 209 is used by many competitors at long range gong shoots, it shoots very well. A lot of top competitors use it. I know one guy who loads it in the 45-70 and 40-65 for himself, his son and daughter. Spends over $2000 a season to buy enough to get through thru the year. Last I saw it, it was $79/ 10oz jug. Fug that I'll stick with black a 25# case gets me thru the year with some to spare...mb