Washington has several seasons where a muzzleloader is advantageous for drawing a tag or access. Thinking about dipping my toe into the muzzleloader game for those reasons. I'm starting from scratch, I know next to nothing about muzzleloaders and looking for opinions on what suits my needs from you experienced folks.

First, a few applicable laws in Washington:
- must be 45 cal or larger for elk hunting
- Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock, flintlock, or percussion. Primers designed to be used in modern cartridges are legal
- Sights must be open, peep, or of other open sight design. Fiber optic sights are legal. Telescopic sights or sights containing glass are prohibited.

Several other laws at play but those are the big ones. Now what I'm looking for:
- simple to use and clean
- reliable and rugged

Not sure where I want to land on price yet. Mostly looking for the best value. What has worked well for you folks?

I just ordered a Woodman Arms with a Brux 45 caliber 1-18” barrel. It can be used with a receiver sight or a scope. It uses a 209 primer, it’s all SS construction and nitrided over the top.

I also have a Remington UML 50 that’s been very awesome as well but a bit heavy.

The Woodman seems like a good option if you’re simply wanting a tool that fires every time you pull the trigger and doesn’t weigh a ton.

How long did you wait for the Woodman? Website says 6-22 weeks, that's quite a range.

Used ML guns are a bit of a conundrum unless you have the means to examine the bore with a bore scope. Alternatively, a tight patch that rides full length without irregularities. Reason I mention this is that I once had a T/C Renegade in .50 caliber that was quite accurate and reliable. Point being there are good ones out there, just use your noggin when examining them.

If you're a sport give some thought to a flintlock. I have one that fires reliably and is stupid accurate. .45 caliber, 60" twist.

Shorter version, look around, you'll find something.

DD

The Woodman is a nice sounding and looking rifle. Wouldn’t mind field testing one. Son, wife, and I have used a couple of CVA Optima V2 for the last 6 years or so. We have a stainless and a Nitride finish with which we’ve taken a dozen or so bucks. Ours have been reliable, easy to use. I’ve never done tight group testing with them, just sight in and make sure two or three rounds go where I want them. But we’re hunting areas where shots are 150 yds and less. Mostly much less. I would buy this model again. Get nitride, Melonite, etc whatever. It makes a difference even with stainless.

I have several but my current favorite is a CVA Accura MRX .50 cal. Mine came from the factory with peep sights. I replaced the rear sight with an EABCO rail with receiver sight because it looked like the Game Dept. here in WA was going to allow use of 1x scopes. They did not! The rifle shoots extremely well with Federal B.O.R. Lock bullets and Blackhorn 209 powder. The rifle uses 209 shotgun primers, is of break open design with an easily removed breech plug. It is nitride coated, easy to clean, light and easy to hunt with. My favorite. (Sorry, I'm not a Buckskinner, just like to hunt the muzzleloader seasons.)

If you for some reason decide to traditional give Kibler a look.

It’s strange I don’t see more mention of this muzzleloader here. Unless you are a purist, and just taking it at face value, it’s seems to me to be the cat’s meow of muzzleloading, especially if you are the kind that hates juggling all the little necessities in a “possibles bag.” I don’t see any open sights in the views here but that could be remedied.

I’m not a purist and I’d start and stop here:

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/traditions-nitrofire-50-muzzleloader-review/389292

I’m I missing something the OP stated in the first post the gun can’t use modern primers. I read the OP wrong I thought it said modern primers not legal.But it has to be match lock,wheel lock,flint or percussion other than mag spark on a percussion how does that work

Unless I'm missing something, none of the mentioned inline guns meet the legal criteria. The law states it CAN use modern primers, but the IGNITION method must be either a wheel lock, match lock, flint lock, or percussion fired muzzleloader.

I'd check out Jim Kibler Woodsrunner Flintlock kit.

Just a plain old TC Renegade or hawken is great and should be all legal. A peep sight makes it better yet for shooting but some say it is harder to hunt with. A 54 cal. roundball is 225GR. of lead @ 1,400 fps. You can make your own round balls with lead and a mould and your own patches . Black powder lasts forever too. Just find some #11 primers and go... Swab each shot with a damp patch and reload. I have not shot my inlines since I got my TC Hawken and Renegade.
.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/977506010

Not mine. But a great price. I have the same one and it shoots great. 209 primer is legal in washington

The only question here is whether this one is drilled for a front sight. I believe all of the Bighorns are. Be a question for the seller.

Wouldn't an in-line with a simple hammer meet the definition of percussion? Maybe by "percussion" they're not saying it has to be a traditional caplock, just ruling out things like electronic ignition?

The way its worded certainly isn't easy to understand. Wheel, match, and flint locks are all pretty easy to define and understand. But percussion can mean all sorts of things. To me when I think of a percussion gun, I think of the traditional Caplock style. But perhaps not, as I can see your reasoning as well. Further clarification is warranted.

50 yards, offhand.





.45 caliber

I'd sell it if you were interested, but it WON'T be cheap.

DD - great stick of wood, looks fantastic.

I've been doing a fair amount of research online and seem to gravitate towards the CVA Accura MR-X. Thinking about springing for the version with cerakote and nitride finish for added levels of protection. The Williams Western Precision Muzzleloader sight looks like it fits the bill as well.

Still waiting on it. Ordered it in Jan/Feb I think and they said it'd be 3-4 months..

Not bad, should be worth the wait.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...-zihn-sell-50-cal-flintlock#Post18185351

Pick up a .50Cal TC Hawkin from the classifieds. They show up once in a while and are still a very good option.

Something just didn't feel right. Couldn't bring myself to buy a CVA Accura MR-X. I think it's a fine rifle, but something I would want to upgrade from a few years down the road. Just didn't seem like the right decision.

I called the nice folks at Woodman Arms and chatted about what I plan to use the rifle for, lead times, etc. Long story short, I'll have a Patriot 50 cal muzzleloader in my hands sometime this summer. Delivery actually works quite well so now the wait begins.

Beautiful muzzleoader

Nice. I’m looking forward to mine.

When you get it, let us know how you like it. I'll be anxiously awaiting on the west coast.

Why did they make the safety left handed?

I could see that being a big problem, when in a hurry!

Which gun are you talking about?

If it’s the Woodman it’s reversible for righty or lefty.

According to the Woodsman Q&A:

CAN THE SAFETY BE SWITCHED FROM LEFT TO RIGHT, OR RIGHT TO LEFT?
No, it requires the appropriate trigger housing.

I hope they changed it. The one they showed in the video was a lefty, do they make a right hand safety?

Yes for sure. Mine will be set up just like the RH 7600’s I use.

This is good!

I think what they mean is that if you have a right handed trigger assembly, you cannot make it a left handed.

You have to buy the left handed trigger assembly to have a left handed safety.

Does this sound right?

Yes sir. Sounds right to me.

Get 54 or 58 flinter.

I have a knight Light weight.

Its a $900.00 rifle but I want to move it.....open to offers. PM me for questions...offers>

Lefty

You asked for simple and reliable. Well first I see nothing in the regulations you mention that would preclude you from using a modern inline muzzleloader that uses a 209 percussion cap. You just have to use the open sights rather than scoping it. But that weapon is going to be faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more simple and reliable than some of the suggestions offered in this thread.

Given your request of simple and reliable and your admission that you are not very experienced with muzzleloading I find it baffling that you have people recommending flintlock rifles to you. And I say that as someone who owns traditional style flintlock rifles and loves shooting them. But flintlocks are much more complex and potentially problematic than a modern inline muzzleloader. For starters you typically need two different grades of powder, 4f for the priming pan, and 3f or 2f for the main charge. Many mass produced flintlocks lack a properly hardened frizzen which can lead to ignition problems down the road. The mass produced ones are not going to be hand tuned either. A custom built flintlock is going to be more likely to give you consistent ignition but they won't be cheap.

Also you need to ask yourself what type of projectile do I want to use. Because many of the traditional style muzzleloaders that have been recommended here have barrels with a slow twist rate like 1 in 60. That's good for stabilizing patched round balls but not good at all for a heavier conical or sabot. Just getting started and not sure how I would like it I'd go with something basic like this.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product...pr2117snw+wolf+v2+nw+ss+blk+.50+cal.+fos

Not very expensive but good for the money. It has a 1in28 twist rate that will stabilize sabots or conicals whichever your state allows. It uses 209 primers for very reliable ignition. If you find you enjoy muzzleloading you can get something more expensive down the line. But hell, even where scopes are allowed muzzleloading is typically a 150 yards or closer affair. Restricted to open sights as you are it will probably be closer than that. Even a inexpensive CVA Wolf like the one in the link will shoot more accurately than you could ever need at those distances.

I wouldn't use more than a hundred grains of powder. Black powder is not terribly efficient and you reach a point where you are just blowing unburnt powder out the end of the barrel for little actual increase in velocity. A hundred grains of black powder or black powder substitute behind a 250 grain or heavier bullet will kill anything in North America and most things on the planet.

Good luck and have fun.

I take it to read 209 primers are legal " Primers designed to be used in modern cartridges are legal" and nothing is mentioned forbidding in-lines. Just about any off the shelf ML will work. It is the number of bells and whistles that drive up the price.I have both a TC Hawkin and a TC Impact inline.I have killed elk with both .The Impact can usually be found for less than $300 as are few Traditions .

They all will shoot accurately enough with the right load and bullet .My only advice is to stay away from any brand that has plastic sights.

We may as well save our breath...these guys have no respect for workmanship, tradition, history or hunting skills... in their world, plastic, stainless, gimmickry, gadgetry, the latest is the greatest. And the game departments don't give a damn as long as they can sell more tags.

If you want to shoot a patched round ball, find a 16 bore English Sporting Rifle.

You can load it up or down, depending on what you are hunting.

Wide butt plate, 2.1/2"s of drop, a fine hunting gun.

They want the latest and greatest. Ain't about hunting anymore. Ain't about becoming skilled hunter or being proficient with your rifle.

Can you use modern powders?