I have the urge to try a flintlock rifle and am considering either a 36 or 50 caliber. I would like to know the pros and cons of a single trigger vice double set trigger. I have a percussion TC Renegade 50 caliber with double set triggers that I built from a kit years ago and like it a lot but think I would like to try a flintlock. I have noted that flintlock rifles can have either type trigger but do not know which is better. Sure would appreciate any info from you experienced flintlock shooters. Also any rifle recommendations.
Historically, the tail end of the highest form of flintlock development, maybe 1810 to 1840....the finest English rifles of that time came with well tuned single triggers and they are wonderful. Of course the Prussian rifles of that period maintained the set triggers. IMO, it's just a matter of your personal preference. I don't see where one is 'better' than the other, certainly not on paper targets. Quality locks, good barrels, and good sights, in that order is where I spend my money on custom builds.
Set.
Use it if you want, ignore it if you don't.
Almost every deer I've shot, it's been used.
For hunting a well tuned single trigger to me is preferable especially if there is a tendency to adjust the front trigger to just a hair. A
Definately check out Kibler rifles while you are looking around. I put one together a few months ago and am very happy with it. It is a colonial pattern with a single trigger.
I would suggest you find a TC Hawken or a Lyman Plains Rifle. Both are about a quarter the price of a Kibler kit that needs some finesse to complete.
you can learn much from either rifle. when you want to step up to the level of a Kibler (the Holy Grail of kits) you can sell either easily or if you are like most just keep them.
With a set trigger you have the option of either.
I would suggest you find a TC Hawken or a Lyman Plains Rifle. Both are about a quarter the price of a Kibler kit that needs some finesse to complete.
you can learn much from either rifle. when you want to step up to the level of a Kibler (the Holy Grail of kits) you can sell either easily or if you are like most just keep them.
I respectfully disagree...the TC flint lock assembly is barely 'adequate'...the Lyman flint lock geometry and schidtful frizzen is an abomination. There is a reason L&R sells the RPL 03 and 05 locks like hotcakes.
Just a little out of my price range!
If you can find one, take a look at Pedersolis. They are pretty nice, and priced well within reason considering the quality. Capandball on YouTube has a number of videos on their stuff.
Seems like all the Italian guns are hard to come by now. Italy took a hard hit from COVID.
I would suggest you find a TC Hawken or a Lyman Plains Rifle. Both are about a quarter the price of a Kibler kit that needs some finesse to complete.
you can learn much from either rifle. when you want to step up to the level of a Kibler (the Holy Grail of kits) you can sell either easily or if you are like most just keep them.
I respectfully disagree...the TC flint lock assembly is barely 'adequate'...the Lyman flint lock geometry and schidtful frizzen is an abomination. There is a reason L&R sells the RPL 03 and 05 locks like hotcakes.
to a certain extent i agree with this assessment, but when one is confronted with the shortcomings of the lesser rifles, one learns a great deal about overcoming those faults. then when you get "perfect" designed rifle/components you are in possession of more understanding of how they work and can enjoy them more.
my hobby is to buy these "junker guns" and making them work well. i have a Thompson Center Hawken that after tinkering with, to date has never failed to fire 300+ prb's.
Tc's are responsible for a huge percentage of the current muzzle loading fraternity. Lyman/Investarms likewise.
If you can afford a Kibler kit, great! if you have 6 rug rats and a eagle eyed wife holding the purse strings, look for a good TC, Lyman/Investarms, or CVA.
if you can afford one of Steves masterpieces, you pass go and are in the elite or heavenly realm.
Ha Ha an Eagle-Eyed wife holding the purse strings! I like it.
That being said, can anything be done about the Lyman or Investarms lock geometry by bending the hammer or maybe re-heat treating the frizzen? I have a few of these, and it seems to me the flints don't last and are hard to get positioned right. Once you get it firing quickly and reliably, it doesn't last long until you gotta re-do it again.
One of the most respected gunmakers on the westcoast, Jim Trueblood, put a lot of time and effort into trying to find an economical fix for the Lyman. He told me he was successful eventually, but, labor intensive, it seemed like it would be impossible to make it happen at a price customers could live with. TC and Lyman both decided they didn't want to use a roller frizzen. Not sayin' that it's a must...but it takes one area of failure out of the mix. Lyman designed too much distance between frizzen and cock and a 'normal' dimension flint only scraped the lower half of the frizzen. So the shooter had to shim or position the flint forward...a recipe for loose flints, hence misfires. If the flint is blocked in the back by the jaw screw, it will stay tight indefinitely. The TC is useable and pretty reliable but hard on flints...they seem to strike forward rather than scrape down. And the frizzen is a little too soft. I have gotten 60 shots without knapping or adjusting with Pedersoli and L&R...it's seldom a TC will go 20 in a row. One man's opinion and experience.
flint geometry or relation to frizzen can be altered several ways. shimmed either front or back, lengthened or shortened, or as you ask, change either the cock or frizzen shape.
i have done both. If you do desire to heat and bend, be smart to have a replacement part on hand as sometimes they will snap. just part of tinkering.
I have had best luck just adjusting the length of the flint. being sure that it is always seated against the cock jaw screw also removes a failure factor.
the TC frizzen face is a hit and miss hardness that can be fixed using the powder that Track of the wolf sells.
sometimes it will take more than a single treatment to achieve the optimum hardness.
i remove the frizzen clamp the pivot in a pair of forceps and heat the feather with a torch to red. put a layer of the cassenate on and keep the heat up enough to make the powder liquefy. using the forceps dunk into warm water in a figure eight motion. i won't jinx myself by saying i have never had a failure but i have had good success.
first time i heated the frizzen i also gave it some it a slight curved face, as it was as straight as a string and only contacted a small part of the top portion.
my TC Hawken has hundreds of loads through it and sparks like a Haddaway or the Kibler Colonial i have on my fowler.
Wow good info thanks guys. I've been placing the rear of the flint against the cock screw and that really helps. I make a cutout in the leather patch for that to happen. Tried thin lead sheet but that was a no-go. Next I'm going for premium flints or make my own.
I am re-working an older kit flintlock for a friend now. So many problems with geometry, Weak springs, and un-polished internal parts. And no source for replacement parts. Cheap flintlocks are really not worth the trouble. Remember, the lock is the heart of a flintlock. If it isn't good quality the gun is worthless.
There’s something to be said about making your own black powder and not needing to buy caps.
I have an old CVA mountainrifle .45 flint that was my target rifle in the 1980' and hunting rifle for predators for many years. -20 to +100 it worked reliably. I purchased flints from a company in western Canada. I also have flint rifles from Jim Rue and Ted Fellows that are very reliable also.
I like the idea of double set triggers but I've not had good luck with them myself. I went to a single trigger on my newer ca. 1770 I. Haines style rifle after having trouble on a previous gun. My double set triggers failed on our Southern Rifle as well and had a single trigger installed. I love the simplicity and reliability of a period correct single trigger.
A good trigger is a good trigger, regardless of type. What matters most IMO is a good spark, and a touchhole that lets it get to the charge.
You could replace the percussion barrel and lock on your Renegade with a quality flint lock and barrel, or buy something ready to go. My Pedersoli Mortimer was almost there, but I needed to do some touchhole modification to make it really shine. I drilled it out to .0625 and coned out the back side of the liner to bring the charge closer to the pan, according to instructions by Ross Seyfried, who had the same rifle. That done, it was fast and sure. Had to let it go to meet domestic obligations, but it was a very good rifle.
I really need to pay more attention to the dates on these threads….
I'm a devotee of double-sets. I've owned guns with double-sets for over 40 years now and the use of them has long since become second nature. That said, there's nothing wrong with a finely tuned single trigger also. Like Pappy said, a good trigger is a good trigger. I recently bought yet another Ballard single shot target rifle, but I did so with some mild trepidation as it only has a single trigger. Lo and behold a master must have tuned it once upon a time because its trigger breaks at a crisp, repeatable every time, 11 ounces, with zero failures from repeated attempts to jar it off. I shall keep it as-is.