I had a knight disc rifle for 3 years, to me it was just a pain in the butt modern rifle.

Sold it, and 2 years later I had an old salt walk me through making a Lyman GPR... used real BP in it... MAN what fun.

Took a deer with it the first day of the season.. all good.

Spot

Without a doubt...started with an MK85 in the late 80's then sold it a couple years later...used caplocks for a few years in different calibers, then 100% Flintlocks for all hunting for the past several years, including smoothbores...most enjoyable hunting and weekend shooting period of my life.

Sold off about half my centerfires and shotguns during the past few years as they had laid oiled in their cases for 10+ years and I finally came to the decision that I'd never use them again...for me, nothing else comes close to the satisfaction of taking deer, turkey, squirrels, crows, and doves the way the settlers did, using rifled and smoothbore Flintlocks.

I have a rossi .50 for the rain, but I LOOOVE my .54 cabelas' hawken!! Hard to find .54 stuff sometimes, so I figured a backup was in order. The hawken is a much better offhand rifle, and just feels good in your hands.

My Omega in-line is a LOT funner than my old traditional muzzleloaders.

The fun part is that it goes bang even in wet conditions, and after a day or two of being carried in the rain.

This past fall, I encountered two elk hunters whose MLs had failed to fire in the rain, and they weren't having any fun at all!!

Yep!

I love the traditionals. With a little experience the flintys and the percussions are just fine in wet weather. Nothing against the inliners but they're dumb rifles.

The traditional weapons didn't "fail" to fire. Not recognizing the distinction is what makes people follow the inline trail. If you want absolutes, you need to understand the rules of the game and put forth the effort. If you don't, your gun "fails" to fire. In reality, you failed to follow the rules.

Dan

As a general comment, not a direct response to any post, I thought it was worth mentioning the correct view about the reliability of sidelock muzzleloaders, and in particular, Flintlocks...which is that they're perfectly reliable year round under all weather conditions.

The failure is the hunter/shooter...not the Flintlock (or caplock)...to blame the Flintlock is like blaming a pencil for spelling errors.

We have to remember that Flintlocks obviously work year round under all weather conditions because the world used them for about 400 years...our own country for 200-300 years itself as it was discovered and settled using Flintlocks...put food on the table...fought wars...won our independence with them, etc.
(the caplock period was actually a very brief period of time from about 1830 to the Civil War, then cartridge rifles began appearing).

The problem which keeps perpetuating the erroneous myth about sidelock muzzleloaders being unreliable is that people try them without investing a little time studying/learning about them, then they have a bad experience because they don't have a clue about what they're doing, they quit, they blame it on the side lock, and keep repeating their tale over and over again for years after that.

As to reliability in all weather conditions, the old saying about "keep your powder dry" is real...and its very simple:

1) Keep the muzzle pointed down so water does not run back alongside the barrel into the pan and kill the priming charge;

2) Keep the lock area up under your coat next to your warm dry body until you're ready to take a shot;

3) Refresh the prime every hour so that even high humidity/foggy conditions don't have a chance to affect it;

Unfortunately, most people now in our modern society have an 'instant gratification' mindset and won't put out even the little bit of effort it takes to read a couple of articles and study/learn how to use a traditional sidelock muzzleloader...they want something right off the shelf in Walmart that is modern just like their Remington 700, so they can go hunting that afternoon.

We've all seen the result...the feeding frenzy for modern high performance scoped inlines with centerfire ballistics, now some with smokelss powder, now some with electronic ignition, etc...most people don't have any interest in understanding real muzzleloading as it existed in the early American traditional muzzleloading era...most if not all, just want to take advantage of the traditional ML seasons that were already established to get another chance at a deer, then the inlines are put back in the closet for another year.

The good news is that occasionally a small percentage get their interest piqued about real muzzleloading & black powder, and begin going backwards in technology...learn what it's all about...start filling their tags with them every year, etc.

Yeah, what RB said!

...and mebbe one could use a mule's ear and/or grease around the seam of the frizzen...it worked in the past.

Those is the best comments I have read about the traditional/inline muzzleloading controversary.

Inline shooters are rule bending wannabes...

Bill

My interest was only to set the record straight regarding the tired old negative comments about traditional muzzleloaders being unreliable, and not kick sand on an inliner's decision to use the modern stuff. As long as current laws legalize the use of high tech high performance long range scoped inlines in traditional muzzleloading seasons, they're certainly entitled to use them.

To call them "muzzleloaders' however, in an attempt to associate them in the context of what is truly meant by the term "muzzleloaders", and to use them in the seasons pretending they are no different that a traditional muzzleloader is a complete falsehood. They are nothing more than long range modern rifles with centerfire-like performance that simply happen to load from the front.

Almost like Pope's muzzle loading cartridge guns huh? Probably not as accurate though.

Truth is I got the rossi for wet weather, but always take the hawken. So far, so good - 8 deer last year, all kinds of weather. I do take the rossi out from time to time, just to make sure it still works.

I have a 50 cal poor boy with 43" of barrel. Percussion. It has never failed me yet! Shoots true too.
I won an inline in a raffle. It still sits in the box without ever being fired.

Purchased my first muzzle loader in 1986. A T/C Hawkens 50 cal and it has a score of 13+ deer. I also own the Encore 50 and have had bang-flop deer with it also. My go to most of the time is the Hawkens. 370gr maxi ball with 90grs of powder. Longest shot was 130 yards open hard woods with open sights at a 5 pointer. Took both lungs out, buck ran about 60 yards and piled-up. Whats not to like. Front stuffers are a great tool. I hardly ever get to use my center fires. Muzzle loader season before rifle season. All done. Back too the bow. Ken

I just put together my first flintlock longrifle.It is definitely more fun than my Knight is.Will I get rid of the Knight.No, but I'm dying to hunt with the flinter.The inline was just a way to hunt another gun season, but the flintlock leaves me looking vey forward to ML season.

I have taken game with my flintlock in all types of weather ranging from down pours to high wind . Even snow storms with flakes as big as 50 cent pieces . Snow so hard you couldn�t see 50 yards .
I even managed one time to take a nice 5X5 bull elk from our camp one time . The temp was near zero and we had decide not to go out .

What round ball said about the reliability is true .
If the weapon does not go off its because you did something wrong or didn�t do something .
It takes a good understanding of how things work which results in the added understanding of what you need to do to make things work or keep them working

While I don�t think modern muzzleloading shooters are stupid , I would have to agree that most simply are not willing to take the time needed to understand or become proficient in the different aspects that that is needed to keep the system reliable .

Now this isn�t to say I have never had misfires , I have and on some very nice bull elk too . However after I got over the anger it dawned on me that the fault was truly mine not the systems .
In every case I new before hand I needed to change the flint or checked the prime .
But I got lazy , thinking ahhhh she will spark a couple more times .

There in lies the problem fellas not the weapon .

I have heard fellas say ; ahhhh I wont use a traditional muzzleloader again , they simply are not safe . Once I had a bolster blow off or a niple come out � any number of things .
That all comes down to the same thing , operator error .
The nipple was cross threaded or worn , the bolter was never cleaned or needed to be maintained .

Traditional muzzleloaders are simply wonderful but it takes learning .

Im sure modern muzzleloading rifles are fun for some and that�s ok but foe me , give me my old flintlock any day .

Been hunting with a flintlock since 1980. I am not a traditional traditionalist at all. I just love the fun and challenge of hunting with a flintlock. If you hunt with a few friends you will have stories that'll put a smile on your face for the rest of your life. Missing a shot because the gun fired 3 seconds after you pulled the trigger doesn't have to be a really bad thing. This is flintlockin and it is not all about the kill!

Yup, roundball said it well. I shoot traditional black powder rifles using black powder and patched round balls. The in-lines and the stuff that goes with them just ain't my cup of tea. Now, if someone else wants to shoot one, that is fine by me.

Personally I don't care what anyone shoots as long as its legal and they enjoy....







my .02

Its all good!Frankly, anything that goes " BANG" is fun.Had alot of fun poppin' Yankees with my P-53 Enfield .577 and it works even better on yankee deer!My Omega Z5 is a peach of a rifle as well.Use both, love both.This year I'm bound and determined to master the sparkchucker and to that end have procured a T/C Hawken and installed a Green Mountain ball barrel and now that Pa. allows aperture sights I'm in high clover!

I've used both, and for pure fun, nothing beats a traditional. I've been lucky enough to take a deer the hard way in Pennsylvania's primitive weapons seaon. The flinters are just a blast to shoot. You learn a lot about your self and how you work in tandem with your gun when you hunt with a flinter. I totally agree with the others-if the gun doesn't go off, it's pilot error, not the gun's fault. There's a definite sense of accomplishment that comes with working up a flinter with a consistent shooting load and going out and taking a deer with it.
In-lines are just plain easy to use. I like the convenience they offer, and they are very efficient. I think they make a great first muzzleloader to start with, and I think many guys will find an urge to switch off to the traditional guns down the road. As for all this bickering between the two groups, we really need to put this petty crap behind us and stay united for the good of the shooting sports, and our rich hunting tradition. This is the same thing that comes up between traditional archers and those who use compounds, or crossbows. It's kind of like the old saying, United we stand, divided we fall.

For me personally muzzle loaders break down to a few things.

1) if I'm seriesouly after a monster I will be using a rifle.

2) if I'm going to try a muzzle loader it will be to experience the authenticity of it. And when I did swap from in-line to traditional I got more out of it.

Spot

I love the entire experience of blackpowder weapons. When I hunt with my longrifles I wear buckskins, moccasins, 18th century style shirt and tri-corner hat.

My imagination is very good, but I just would have a hard time accepting the image of a scope-sighted, bolt-action, smokeless powder loaded and inline primed rifle in my hands......as I slip through the woods in 1750. Something just seems wrong with that picture.

For me....the reliving of the history and doing things the way they were done 200-250 years ago (and accepting the limitations and equiptment used) is as much a part of blackpowder as the actual opportunity to take an animal. The kill just isn't as important to me as the experience.

Thoroughly enjoy hunting with my .50 cal T-C sidelock. It's a percussion, sigh... But it sure is fun! Generally use a 385 gr Hornady Great Plains bullet & 80 or 90 grains of either black or Pyrodex. Have only taken two mulies with it, but those were darned good hunts!

Never have used, or wanted, a modern, in-line muzzle loader. They seem too much like my modern centerfire rifles.

Traditional for me.

I sure was surprised how well I could group with Iron sites and a roundball.

Cloverleaf at 50 yards, and the 54 cal Lyman Great Plains rifle flattens out deer big time.

Spot

I agree with Mr. Sturgeon. I totally respect the traditionalists,
I've hunted with flintlockers. It is all you fellows say it is.
But I am, for lack of time and access hunting state land. Unfortunately with a bit more hunting pressure than I would like to see. If I have to keep my smoke pole under my coat, and check the prime every hour, all that noise and movement will telegraph my position to every deer in the county. When I step into the woods with my inline with a 209 primer, I can sit like a statue for hours. In my situation, thats a big factor.

Never shot an inline and don't really care to use them, I like the old way. Kind of a connection with the past thing.

I like the fact it't almost reloading and shooting in one

T/C Renegade hunters in .50 & .54 cal.

Mike

Traditional flinter fan here.

Don't understand all the talk about noise and motion...been refreshing 4F prime every hour for years and it's never kept me from filling tags...there's no noise, and with the Flintlock laying across my lap where my hands are resting, I simply slide a pan primer out of a shirt pocket, quietly ease the frizzen open, dump the prime with a simple flick of the wrist, reprime, quietly close the frizzen and slide the pan primer back into a shirt pocket...takes every bit of 15 seconds, zero noise, and practically no movement.

I always keep the lock area under my jacket in damp/rainy weather, only bringing it out when a deer is actually sighted and coming towards me in range for a shot...less than 40-50yds in the woods I hunt...out from under the jacket to my shoulder is one easy slow motion and hasn't bothered a deer yet.

My favorite thing is the range.

My Lyman Great Plains rifle (54 cal cap model) sounds just like what you hear on TV in the old Davey Crocket movies.

First day I took it to the range I burned a half pound of powder out of it. Just too much fun!

I guess it's because I tried non-pelletized Muzzleloading because I wanted too vs. trying my knight disc rifle because I had too one year if I wanted to hunt (my seasons overlapped).

The other component here is that I build my GPR from a kit under the guidance of an traditional hunter and the dang thing groups pretty tight. I also make my own roundballs - all of it adds up to something pretty interesting.

I do admitt there's a bit more intregue waiting for the smoke to clear to see if I flattened that deer or not... and MAN does a 54 cal round ball flatten a deer!

Spot

Yes, I like traditional muzzle-loaders better.

But I won't quarrel with others who prefer in-lines. To each his or her own.

I like to shoot traditional guns best but when it comes to chasing Whitetails Ill grab my inline every time............547.

i prefer traditional rifles over inlines big time. I love flintlocks. I seem to have better luck getting my flintlocks to go off on the first shot than with my percussion Theres just no beauty or style in an inline these days. You get a nice flexy piece of plastic that they call a stock. Dont even really care much for new cars due to the same reasons.

Traditional here too. I love my 50 flinter. In-lines are for people who want to hunt with modern rifles during black powder season, IMO. They miss out on the whole spirit of the thing

That being said, I have nothing against people who like modern BP. There's no special season for BP in Montana, although there are restricted shooting areas.

My second day with a flinter, first on the 50 yard line, offhand. 50 gr. Goex fffg and a .440 ball. It'll do for deers and such.

Inlines?
Absoloutely no use for them in my hands,but YOU HUNT WITH WHAT YOU WANT,that's your right....

I prefer the flintlocks for almost all my shooting and hunting. I can't explain why but I just do. I went thru a handgun hunting spell and now it's flintlocks. I doubt rifles and scopes will see much use until my eyes get so bad that I need the scope to shoot well. I still enjoy the handguns though; hip hostered and open sighted.

I would like to get a flintlock and use it but realize I don't have the time right now to commit to learning and becoming proficient with another technology. In the meantime, the inline .50/209 barrel on my Encore gives me a little more deer hunting opportunity.

Well, when you shoot an inline you don't need to stay inside on hideous hot August days and build a-cooter-ments like this.

flintlocks are easy to learn, most people try to put into other peoples minds that they are hard and take a lot of time to learn. Ive only been shooting flintlocks for a year now and im on my second flintlock, sighting it in for this years hunt that starts sept 8th. Buying the right flint is what matters the most. You buy a cheap flint and i guarantee you will have nothing but problems. Ive been there before! Learning how to prime your pan only takes one or 2 outings before you finally get it and notice how fast it goes off.

What's an inline???

Inline - Multiple uses. What you be at the welfare office. Doctor's office too. When you wait for the witness to look at the other guys thru the one way glass. I din't do it! Inline as opposed to out of line...like me.

Now that's funny.

You don't wanna know...

Regards, sse