Alright fellas...I do have to admit that my primary motive is the large "modern firearm" crowd encountered while hunting this year. But, I do like the nostalgic aspect of muzzleloading, as well.

Anyhow, I am looking at getting into the sport for cheap, something entry level. Traditional look is preferred, but not mandatory.

I am liking the idea of building my own pole from a kit. Advice perhaps?

Thanks.

At the risk of ruffling some feathers, I advise you to avoid CVA (BPI products) and traditions products. I find them to be cheaply made. Do a search for Dixie Gun Works and see what they have or better yet, get their catalog. Cabela's has a flint lock/cap lock kit but I don't know who makes it or whether its any good or not.

AS a newbie, I have a question. You find them to be "cheaply made" .How does this translate into being a good/bad ML??

A Lyman Great Plains rifle is arguably the best value in a round ball rifle. Midsouth Shooters Supply has had the best price on them that I have seen on the internet. It is an excellent shooting rifle and as close to historically correct as you will find in a production muzzleloader. Here is a link to Lyman's web site and info about the Great Plains rifle:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/index.htm
Click on the Blackpowder button on the top left.

Listen to some good advice you just got.
Cut through all the crap and get the Lyman Kit from Midsouth.
period.
Hands down the best value for the bucks.
Hands down the best looking 'traditional' type factory rifle on the market.
Buy the Lyman and quit right there.
I've seen kits put together by fellas that have built a few and browned the metal.
Hard to tell a nicley done Lyman Kit from an expensive hand made rifle.
They will shoot better than we can hold the thing too! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

if your lookin for cheap prices, go for the CVA or the Traditions. Allthough in my opinion they are junk. All though some folks seem to like them. I agree with the lyman. It's a good gun, accurate and well made. one option for a price reduction is to look at the lyman trade rifle. its about as plane as you can get. no set triggers or nuthin. but its a good gun. But If I were you I would go after the great plains rifle. TVM makes a good kit too. but they can be a lil costly

I've handled but never shot any CVA/Traditions products. Poor wood to metal fit, miss-aligned screw holes etc. They may shoot just fine, but the crappy craftsmanship is a real turn-off for me. The single biggest thing that I don't like about the CVA stuff is that they use Spanish made extruded barrels. They've been challanged, but they still have not produced and proof data. Nobody knows what their barrels can handle pressure wise, not even CVA/BPI. I would think that a newby looking for a traditional cap/flint lock would do well with a Lyman product.

The rifle below is American Made with American steel. It comes in wood & reminds me just a little of the Rolling Block rifle of the mid-1800s. Yours for only $159. Better hurry thou... Cabelas ran out of stock on these in late November last year.

New England Firearms Sidekick 50

Trip 777 if that rife is 209 ignition you can't use it for hunting in WA ST.....too bad too.

Bullwnkl.

Yup...has to be "exposed to the elements".

Matthias, go check out this site, "Track of the Wolf" for all of your muzzle loading needs and then some. Great sight lots of stuff and books. I ordered several things from them so far and have been very happy with their service. My recent purchase of a Green Mtn barrel says volumes about their assessment of vendors products, they said the barrels are good and that is an understatement. They do not seem to sell junk.
You might consider finding a used rifle, I like T/C, one with a rusted barrel should be had for less than $100 if you look around. then buy a Green Mtn replacement for $140 and you have a very good rifle. There are lots of unused neglected smoke poles left over from the 80 and 90's from folks who thought they were going Danial Boone but found out the limitations to their own abilities to "HUNT" rather than just shot. You have plenty options, go cheap Wally world junk or spend a good amount of time rolling your own. Just remember cheap is always cheap in every sence of the word.

Bullwnkl

Not to flame on about CVA.....I am no expert in the muzzleloading field but I do shoot and hunt with muzzleloaders and have for about 14 years. I have always had good luck with T/C, both inline and traditional. I have a Pedrosoli (sp?) FlintLock and love it:) When my wife wanted to muzzleload hunt with me about 4 years ago for her first time we bought her a CVA Youth .50 cal sidelock. The gun is very plain and basic but that was fine with her....new at $90.00 or so. The front sight was crap brass and hard to see. I replaced it with a $15 fiberoptic sight and left the rear Williams alone. The lock was so rough and unfinished it would not bust a cap!! I tore the lock apart and stoned it smooth and it is fine now. In short, it is a GREAT shooter. Very accurate. Last year I bought 2 CVA HunterBolt inlines. One in .45 and one in .50. They shoot very well. I put scopes on both and shoot the powerbelts with 777 and both rifles will cut holes from a bench at 100 yards. My flintlock buddies are currently praying for me to turn from my evil ways. I still shoot and hunt with my flint gun but I love all 3 of our CVA's. That is just my $.02 on the CVA issue.....if some hate them that is cool with me but I have no complaints on mine...save the crap finish on the Youth gun.....the inlines are fine.

Someone correct me if I'm off base....I think the Hawkin style kits from Cabela's are from the same maker as the Lyman rifles.....not the same rifles but the same maker. I got that info one time from a Cabela's guy.

Mark H

Mattias, when I got into the ML thing in the 70's A lot of fellas were shooting either the Thompson Center Hawken or the Lyman .
Both are better rifles than the CVA's Traditions, etc.
Many of the companies, however use common parts, so it is hard to distinguish between some of the different brands.
My first was a Lyman Hawken in.50 cal. but I always recommend
a minimum of .54 for hunting these days.
Somthing in about a 32" barrel for the sighting plain advantage, double set triggers, 54 cal., two barrel wedges, traditional looks with a decent price tag.
These all point to the lyman, hands down.

Catnthehat

I'v got a GPR 50 cal and I'v been real happy with it. The cool thing about the GPR is that you can buy additional bbls to change calibers and/or twists for $120-$125 apiece.

Midsouth GPR 50 cal
Midsouth 54 cal
Barrels

I bought a used Thompson Center Renegade 54 caplock and have a lot of fun very cheaply. It looks traditional compared to an inline. It is very powerful with the maxiball. I know guys who shoot CVA's and like them but there is no accounting for peoples taste. They are inexpensive if that is a concern. However you may enjoy the sport even more if you jump in with both feet, rather than just getting your toe wet to see if you like it. It takes lead balls to shoot black powder!
GWN

LYMAN:
CVA and Traditions have a reputation for poor quality. Don't know, never owned one.
Not gonna knock them either.
Don't know how many Traditions/CVA shooters may be reading this. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I shoot custom built flinters. Started with T/C Hawken and Renegads as they were the 'best' available at the time. a Looooooooong time ago.
Went the in-line route for a few years.
The I had a 'spritutal conversion' and got into roundball and flint.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, has the looks and feel of a fine long rifle.

matthias, I moved to sw Washington in 1995. I started front stuffing elk the year I moved here!!!!! Without a doudt the finest traditional style muzzlerloader out there has gotta be the Lyman. I switched from a sidehammer CVA to an inline THOMPSON FIREHAWK , for a number of reasons. The most important reason being virtually garrenteed to fire in adverse conditions. My THOMPSON HAS nearly 400 rounds through it without a single hang or miss fire!!!!! If you hunt in the rain the old sidehammer is gonna fail you sooner or later. And with a bull elk standing there that will be a day you wish you had an inline!!! Agood friend of mine shoots a Lyman deerstalker that is stainless, walnut with a 1 in 32 twist, and shoots a consistant 2 an a half inch group at 100yds. My TC FIREHAWK HAS THE SAME TWIST and also shoots a 2 to 3 inch group. Good luck and have fun!!!

I bought the Cabela's Hawken and it is perfect for what I wanted. It is still traditional enough for Oregons stiff regulations and looks great. I do want the Lyman but for a "first" muzzleloader the hawken is a great deal. I got the percussin cap model and can put three conical bullets in a three inch group at 100 yards. I just love this muzzle loader and have had the greatest time setting it up. It is very traditional and performs great. I would recommend the installation of good peep sight (Lyman Model #57SML) for aging eyes as 100 yds is a long way for open sights. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />