Have a Hawken style rifle that I want to use a patched round ball in. Balls are .490 and want to know what size patch to use. Have some .015 but wondering is it should be .010 to equal the bore size. Any help would be appreciated.

.010 will probably be too thin. The .015 should work ok. If they seem a little loose you can try pillow ticking. It's usually .018.

+1... what Old Hunter wrote...

I have three .50 caliber rifles... one Long Rifle (flint)1:66 twist, a standard 7� lb CVA Hawken cap-lock with a 28" barrel for target shooting and a 6� lb CVA Hawken Carbine cap-lock with a 24" barrel for deer hunting. Both Hawken rifles have a 1:48 twist.

All 3 rifles use a .490" Hornady swagged rifle ball and a .016" to .017" (un-compressed) denim patch which compresses down to about .006" when heavily squeezed in my micrometers.

This thickness of patch seems to work equally well in all three rifles since all three rifles are very accurate... particularly the little Carbine.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

I had a .50 built around an old Getz barrel that shot well with a .490 ball/.015 patch. It really shined with a .495 ball and .010 Irish linen patch.

That combo is a bit more accurate, but when I tried it I had to use a wad to keep from blowing holes in the patch. Ok for the range, but too fiddly for hunting. (for me)

The size of patch all depends on the bore . Just because you have a 50 cal , it doesn�t mean your bore is .500.
You may find that you need a thicker patch then .010 . But you also may just as easily find out that you don�t
My wife uses .010 patches in her rifle , and it doesn�t burn patches unless she throws over 90 grains.
My 54 however does even at 70 grains .
Myself I would give the .015 patches a try since that�s what you have .
Go out and start working on a load . See what patterns your getting . If your have issues , start collecting up the fired patches . Then work from there .

Like others have said, 50 cal bores will vary a lot. I have shot 490's and 495's and prefer the 495. My feeling is start with a larger ball and work up in patch size. My guess you will find best accuracy with about 80 gr FF or it's equivalent. Your lube can make a difference also. The patch has to be tough, and if it loads too easy it probably won't shoot well in my experience.

I found a patch material in a fabrics store that was a type of pillow ticking that had a floral pattern on it. The guys would laugh at me with the "girly patch" but didn't at turkey shoots 'cause that baby would shoot!

I'm a Goex BP guy and shoot FF and FFF in my 50, and FF in my 54. Best load in my 50 Great Plains 1:66 is 60grFFF and a 495 RB with the "flower patch". The CVA 54 mountain rifle likes 80gr FF with a 535 and "the patch" I use "moose milk" for lube and never had good results with Crisco or wonder lube.

I shoot Swiss powder, and it's probably the reason I need a wad with a .010 patch. Goex doesn't seem to have the same problem.

Thanks guys. Have used the sabots and loose 777 powder for years but this is my first try at round balls. Did not know to look for burns in the patches but will do so. Season opened yesterday so will be using the old ML for now but will be working on the round balls during the day. Hopefully will have it done before ML season is over.

Best Regards to you all, TM

usually the tighter the patch the better your rifle will shoot. I would start with .10 and work up to the .20 and let you rifle decide which one to use.

Yes 80 gr. 3fg works the best in 50s

490 ball and a 15 patch is a good place to start. Patch thickness is one of the variables you should experiment with to find the load your rifle is going to be most accurate with.

I have three 50 cal rifles I am running now. The CVA mountain rifle shoots best with 490 balls, 15 patches and 70 grains of Goex 3-f. The Lyman GPR likes two loads; 495 ball, 20 thick denim patch and 40 grains of Goex 3-f is the best target load and 495 ball, 18 thick pillow ticking with 80 grains Goex 3-f is the best hunting load.

The little CVA Frontier rifle is a tack driver with 490 ball, 15 patch and 30 grains of Goex. This is my youngest boys target and small game rifle, we haven't worked up a load for deer with it yet.

The groves in my Lyman rifle are cut deeper than those in my CVA rifles. It needs a thicker patch to fill those groves and make a good seal.

You will just need to try a few combinations until you find the patch /ball combination that gives you a good gas seal. If you are seeing fired patches with cuts and burned through signs, try a thicker patch.

Don't forget there are 480 round balls available. I have friends who shoot those with 20-22 thick patches and they can be very accurate in some rifles.

Muzzle loading rifles are spooky accurate with patched round balls if you take the time to experiment and work up your load.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but generally isn't a tighter fit better? I shoot a .54 CVA percussion Hawkens that likes .15 Ox Yoke patches and .530 Hornandy sprueless roundballs. Actually it shoots just about any similar load to minute of deer accuracy, but I know some guns can be much more finicky. I've never had to try thicker or thinner patches. 'Suppose I should get serious with it one of these days and see what kind of improved accuracy I can tweak out of it by playing with the loads a bit. Do they make .535 diameter round balls?

Yes, Hornady makes a .535 ball.

so does speer .
if you get into casting your own balls , you will also find that moulds can be had in any size you would like .

most commonly off the shelf though , you should be finding RB in .490/.495 for 50 cal and .530/.535 for 54

He was already using Hornady. I was making it easy for him.

Thanks for the info guys. I'm going to give it a try and see if it makes any difference.

You need to know the bore and groove to groove size. A lot of the newer guns are not cut rifling at the proper .010" depth, they are broached.
All I can say is use the largest ball and a patch that will engrave the ball with the weave .005" deep at the bottom of the grooves.
TC started the too small ball thing with the shallow rifling.
Long ago a ball gauge was used to measure the bore and that was the size ball needed, .450" used a .450" ball, etc. A .50 used a .500 ball or a .495 with a thicker patch. TC started the .490" ball stuff. My TC Hawken still shot better with a .495" ball and a .015" patch.
My .54 barrel shoots with either a .540" ball and a thin patch or a .535" ball and a .020" to .022" patch. I use denim (blue jean material) for the best and even found a cigarette paper between the ball and patch increased accuracy. I make one ragged hole groups at 50 yards with 5 shots and open sights. I have hit 4 out of 5 steel chickens at 200 meters off hand.
My rule of thumb is a bore size ball, .540", .500", .450", use a .012" patch.
Under bore size, .535", .495", .445", use .020" patch. This is a starting patch and thicker can increase accuracy.
This might not work with shallow rifling. Barrels are just not as good unless you buy a good cut one.
This is an average at 50 yards with my .54.

Try the pillow ticking. It should work with the .490 ball.
If it works, buy a few yards and cut it in strips of the correct width for the ball.

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Old Hunter...

I shoot Swiss FFFg in all three of my .50 caliber rifles... a flintlock Long Rifle (1:66 twist) and 2 cap-lock Hawken rifles, one is a standard 28" barreled Hawken (7� lbs-my target rifle) and the other is a 24" Hawken Carbine (6� lbs- my hunting rifle)... and have begun using vegetable fiber wads to not only protect the rifle ball's patch, but also to increase my rifle's accuracy and muzzle velocity.

All three rifles shoot the Hornady .490 swagged lead ball with a .016" denim patch lubed with a mixture of bee's wax & Crisco.

I also use a .060" vegetable fiber wad in all these rifles and find no burnt patches regardless of the amount of FFFg Swiss powder I use (have shot from 47 to 95 grains for one reason or another).

This very tough wad is biodegradable and keeps all the cloth patches in good condition... regardless of the powder charge and keeps the patch lube from wetting the powder if the rifle is left loaded for several days in a row during hunting season.

It is claimed by some fellas that compressing the powder charge with the fiber wad tends to increase muzzle velocity. I can't say that is true or false, one way or the other, since I haven't chronographed any of these BP loads yet.

Once I determine the best (most accurate) loads for each of the rifles for target shooting sy 25 and 50 yards as well as hunting loads, then I'll break out the chronograph and get the muzzle velocities.

I get the vegetable fiber wads from:
John Walters
500 N. Avery Dr.
Moore, Oklahoma 73160
ph: (405)799-0376
[email protected]

John charges $20.00 per 1000 + $1 postage and sends his wads along with an invoice for the amount due. He is very trusting.

You might give these vegetable fiber wads a try and see how you like 'em.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Thanks Ron.

Patched round ball. Lyman GPR Flint.
.490" ball, 0.010" patch,one 0.030 Walter's wad, 90 grains Goex FFg.
Three shots at 100 yards for a contest.

Wow...impressive.

Doc

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You're welcome, partner...