Anyone do one of the 700 smokeless route with their ML? Seems like a donor ML can be had rather cheaply. What all is involved for the conversion to a 45 caliber? Approx cost?

About $600 plus the gun. A McGowen barrel would run at least $100 less. I am thrilled with the 700MLs that I converted to smokeless barrels. Check this link for what is needed...

http://www.smokelessmz.com/700ml.html

I live in Maryland in a shotgun only county and figure a smokless 45 cal would be pretty much the closest thing to a legal rifle. Used in ML and gun season.

The 45cal conversions with a Pacnor or Mcgowen barrel are top notch shooters. Lighter amounts of Savage book powders like 4759 will easily beat subs and the slower powders will take the fps to far beyond even the hottest load of Blackhorn.

Recoil? Similar to a 45/70?

It depends if you are shooting 40cal 200gr bullets in sabots or 45 caliber 250gr-300gr bullets without a sabot. Heavy sabot-less loads are similar to some 45/70 loads or worse. Even fast 200gr sabot loads are pretty mild in comparison.

Its easy to get the recoil down with a little load work.

I got to get the ball rolling on getting one put together.

I converted a savage 10ml to 45 caliber I am getting 2700 fps with a 200G sst. 2" groups at 200 yards are not very hard to do. i am at the point now where I head shoot any doe that is within 150 yards.

How is the recoil on that baby?

I spent the last few months reading all I could on smokeless. I just picked up a SS 700ML and waiting for my Pac-Nor Sendero contour .45.

I'll have over a grand easy when finished.

I ordered the majority of components and barrel through Luke at smokelessmz. He is a member here too.

http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=smokeless

The recoil is manageable, It feels much lighter than shooting a 12 gauge slug gun. I can say with certainly that it is much lighter than shooting the 50 caliber muzzloader with smokeless powder.

What if any is a true benefit from a remington ML to a savage ML? All things being equal as a 45 cal conversion? I figure the remmy will have more aftermarket jazz.

There are those who will argue there is no benefit of the 45 cal conversion over the savage ML. Both can shoot light loads that are easy on the shoulder and accurate out of the barrel, and both can shoot thumper loads that are hard on the shoulder, still accurate, and speeds and energy not doable out of most smoker guns.

if you need a gun to do a build i'm posting a blued /camo 700 50cal this evening or on wednesday. i just bought and have pick it up later today.shoot me a pm if interested

The Rem builds are usually a tad lighter and you have a huge stock selection including some fairly good factory takeoffs if you want to save some $$$. There are also a few more Rem aftermarket triggers if you want to get fancy.

The Rem barrel threads are a little larger than a Savage, so i guess you could say they might be stronger. The load data is not anywhere near burst levels so to me that is not an issue.

Barrel selection might be more important to you. The McGowens are sometimes a little larger and sabot-less might not require any sizing with some bullets. Pacnors are usually tighter and a sizing die will almost certainly be required for sabot-less. Both shoot sabots extremely well.

Mine is a Savage Pacnor and i normally shoot the 200gr SST or Barnes 195gr at close to 2700fps when hunting. I don't think the recoil is bad at all but its a heavy build. You can switch to mild amounts of a faster book powder like 4759 or N110 and easily get 2200-2500fps. Felt recoil to me with that load data is a cream puff and very fun to shoot with the cheap 200gr XTPs.

If you like to shoot a lot of Blackhorn, you will love a smokeless 45.

I should probably just buy a savage ml2 and call it good.

savage posted today

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...mington_700ml_50cal_blued_ca#Post7226778

If you're serious about it, I'd go the Rem/Pacnor route in 45cal. Shoot a 40 cal 195 or 200 at 2700-2800fps. Mine is scary accurate and less fussy than the MLII's I've been around.

JC I don't think your going to find anyone who has actually converted a Savage from a factory 50 to a 45 cal that will make that argument.

The only thing i don't like about my Savage 45 conversion is stock selection for the 4.275 spacing.

I've done quite a few conversions and know for sure that the Remington conversion is much cheaper if you want a 45 cal. Especially if your going the route of stainless. I purchased (3) Stainless 700 ML's in the past month and have less than 900.00 in all 3. I just sold a Savage 10 MLII stainless for over 900.00 in 50 cal. The Remington has some positives in that like said above, stocks, triggers etc... are easy to acquire. Both shoot equal with quality barrels and can't chose one over the other but, in the $$$$ department the Remington wins especially since I do all my own smith work, build my own bolt faces, breech plugs etc...

This is a no lose situation, both work well.

Thanks L2H.

Assuming a stainless 700 ML, how much are we talking for the donor, and the conversion?

Ok after a lot of back and fourth with some very helpful 24 members, I'm definitely gonna do the remmy conversion. If anyone happens to have a lead one FS let me know. I don't need a prize just a stainless action and the rest is getting junked.

I bought my blued 700ML donor, shipped, for $250. I would be looking to pay $300 for a stainless but they are getting a little pricier as the SML becomes more popular. Rather than pay more for stainless I just coat CM actions.

If you can do your own work the conversion will only set you back the price of the bolt nose kit ($88), barrel($450ish threaded from Pac-nor for example) and plug ($65-85 depending on if carbide or not). I'm sure guys will charge a couple hundred for fitting, heapsacing, etc. I would guess most guys are at $1K on the cheap end and around $2K for better builds before optics. The only real difference between these and a custom centerfire is most guys don't think trueing the 700ML receiver is important.

Despite what the critics say my NULA is going to be cheap compared to my 700SML.

Precision Rifle does a complete conversion on a Remington 308 or 243 for about $500. He uses a Green Mountain barrel and i don't think you can select the twist. I think his are 1-28.

http://www.prbullet.com/700.htm

I like the 700ML with a McGowen or Pacnor barrel better. The McGowen saves you about $100-150 and its still a great barrel. http://www.smokelessmz.com/pricelist.htm

Definitely gonna go with a non fluted Mcgowen. Does a Ti take off work with such a build?

Im not 100% sure but i believe the answer is YES with some minor sanding in the barrel channel. Ive seen them used but im not up on the exact details.

LVSF stocks seem popular and are reasonable.

So I've purchased a stainless remmy 700 ML off a fellow 24hour member, put a deposit down on one if Luke's next batch of barrels (pacnor sendaro contour), and all the conversion stuff. Got a few month wait on the barrel so I need to nail down what stock in gonna order.

Probably put a vx2 3x9-40 on it.

I don't think you will be able to use the Ti stock. I had a Ti that I used for a build. You will most definitely be full length bedding is you use that stock. When I talked to the guys at McMillan about my build they said only the Classic, Remington Hunter, or HTG would work with a float in a sporter configuration. A Manners SL will take up to a Bartlein #4. All of those stocks will take more barrel than a Ti. The only B&C I think you can use in a Sporter is the Carbelite which can be made into a decent stock with good fitting and bedding.

I like McMillan or Manners because they can be had in a single shot inlet.

Some guys on the smokeless forum have had success with the B and C medalist stock.

Fishhawk built this one with a TI for ratsnakeboogy on Dougs.



At least its in the 700ML pics thread and thats how it is labeled.

EDIT, oops that is a factory 700ML 45 barrel.

Scanning stockeys for a bell and Carlson in a classic/ADL configuration. I don't think I want a BDL setup for the extra loads. Ill keep em in my pocket.

Shame a McMillan classic wasn't cheaper. I can get a ADL classic on their website for 539.

Woodson, I noticed you are getting some really good advice from Dougsmessage board. when your finished with your build I think you are going to be really happy. I personally opted for the Savage 10ml as a donor and would like to build another on a 700 action. The problem is, I have no reason to. the one I put together will easily put 3 shots into 2" at 250 yards. In fact out of the last dozen or so does I have killed all but one has been a head shot. This one was taken with the Hornady 200G SST.

Looks like your savage is doing just fine.

I have a stainless/synthetic M700ML in .54 caliber (not that caliber seems to matter) in real nice shape I would sell for $375 shipped if anyone is interested. I have a Savage 10ML that shoots just fine for my needs so I don't need the Remington anymore.

Thanks but I got one incoming off a fellow 24 member, also a remmy 700 stainless.

You could probrably stuff a big barrel in one. The 700Ti I had started as a factory gun. I floated the barrel but the forend is really flexible. I never could get the barrel to shoot so it got a new tube and an McM Edge while I was at it. Even the thin forend McM KS is pretty flexible and that is when fitted for a #3-ish barrel. I would think that since most guys are using Sendero profile tubes you would have very thin edges or broken fiberglass shells at the top of the channel and would need to glass to fill them back in and a full length bed would fix the stock flex issue.

Ok so I got the donor 700 stainless ML action in. Ordered the conversion stuff and the pacnor sendaro 45 cal off Luke. Got a bit to wait.

Woodson. If you haven't purchased a stock yet. I have a McMillan Remington BDL that I am getting ready to post in the classified. It is inlet tied for a Remington 700 SA, Sendero Contour, and factory BDL bottom.

Awesome

I just got mine a couple weeks ago. Its actually built on a 700cf, I really just did a second barrel for one of my guns. I use 45 acp cases with a 209 primer in. I have a Ibex hunt in NM in a month so I have to use black powder or sub, so I have been shooting with blackhorn. The gunsmith shot it with smokeless and with a random test loads the bullets were all touching at 100 yds. My first loads with BH and 275 parkers had all the shots touching. I then use the 300 grain parker max hunters and shot 1" group at 200 yds at 2445 vel. Yesterday I shot it out to 500 yds and this thing just freaking shoots awesome.

Scallop I would be interested in your stock.

PM sent Woodson.

You are going to love shooting a 45cal smokeless. There is no comparison and you give up nothing vs a 50cal using sabots. Nearly any 45 you can shoot in a sabot with a 50cal can be shot in the 45 with a little re-sizing. You wont even have to wait nearly as much for the barrel to cool when you ditch the sabots.

They shoot subs and 495gr conicals just fine too.

Here is my Remington build.

SS Remington 700ML donor
McGowan- 26" SS 22 twist 8 groove 8 flute 45cal. barrel
McGowan barrel lug
Savage breech plug
Hunter bolt nose kit
B&C M-40 stock- Gray/Black Webbing
Custom firing pin spring
Custom bolt fluting
Custom bolt knob
Bead blast all parts
BDL bottom metal
Murphy stainless one-piece base
Warne low rings
Burris signature 4.5 x 14 - 44

How does it shoot?

Beautiful gun.

I never fired one of those savage ML. Hows the blowback/cleaning? Does the action/bolt get dirty, or is that a non-issue with smokeless?

I'll let you know after it warms up a bit around here, been to cold to visit the range.



Not to worry with these rifles.

I dont have a smokeless ML, but I do have a good quality gun (white).
IN this gun, I tend to shoot pretty light loads (usually 70ish grains, 80 grains777 as a max, and I can probably easily live with 60-65.)

Sure would be nice to have a safe/light load of smokeless to use for it.

Not Ricks, but mine shoots pretty good.
This is first 3 shots sabotless at 100 yds. Butch

If anyone is going to build a REM muzzy, i have a 54 cal barrel and action,, less bolt and all hard ware.. Stainless. 40.00 plus shipping..

LIV2HUNT I have a .50 remington 700ml,not the new one. I was wondering what keeps it from being able to handle 200gr loads like the New Rem 700UML? It's a stainless barrel but the bolt has no locking lugs, which seem to serve as a safety implement more than anything I guess. I mean if it's overloaded and the breech plug blows I guess the locing lugs will hold the plug? Surely the lugs aren't there to m a ke it operate safely on a daily basis?
Is it this way they put the barrels in the old rem 700mls?
Thank you for your time

Can the old Rem 700 ml w/209s handle 200grains like the newer Remington 700 UML w/case ignition?
The old Rem700 ML goes from 1.2 to .085 O.D. stainless barrel. Is that enough to handle 25-30000 psi?
Is the construction of the new UML different in regards to the way the barrel joins the receiver?

How could my Rem 700 ml be modified to handle 200 grains bh209 or nitro charges?

The new Rem has a beefier barrel than the old 700ML. A 4 pellet load makes quite a bit more than 30kpsi. Even 3 pellets can break 30kpsi. 150gr by volume of BH209 is around 30kpsi or more with a 300gr bullet.

Loads like these are pretty rough on vent liner based breach plugs.

Does the Remington 700 Muzzloader make the 700 smokeless a bit less attractive to have. Is the 700 Muzzloader so much better that it is better to just go get a 700 muzzleloader? I ask cause I am still not all that happy with my Encore and Impact.

I've been playing w/ smokeless Rem700 builds and also conversions of 45/70 H&R and Encore's for a number of years and I have Zero Interest in the newer 700 Rem factory Muzzleloader. Its expensive, and needs helluva lot of powder and recoil to get performance gains, and you still have to clean it up like any other BP or Substitute ML.

If one were to buy a shot out Remington 700 varmint and had the barrel rebored to .45 or .50 and had a arrowhead sporting goods primer conversion done would it not make a really decent muzzleloader?

Illinois
Muzzleloader Regulations
Legal Description:
“Single or double-barreled muzzleloading rifles of at least .45 caliber shooting a single projectile through a barrel of at least sixteen inches in length. A muzzleloading firearm is defined as a firearm that is incapable of being loaded from the breech end. Only black powder or a “black powder substitute” such as Pyrodex may be used. Modern smokeless powders are an approved black powder substitute only in muzzleloading firearms that are specifically designed for their use. Percussion caps (shotgun primers are legal), wheel-lock, matchlock or flint type ignition only may be used, except the Connecticut Valley Arms electronic ignition shall be legal to use.”

Very interesting

I believe Illinois opens up smokeless powder use under:

TITLE 17: CONSERVATION
CHAPTER I: DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES
SUBCHAPTER b: FISH AND WILDLIFE
PART 660 WHITE-TAILED DEER HUNTING BY USE OF MUZZLELOADING RIFLES
SECTION 660.30 STATEWIDE MUZZLELOADING RIFLE REQUIREMENTS


Section 660.30 Statewide Muzzleloading Rifle Requirements

a) The only legal hunting device is a single or double barreled muzzleloading rifle of at least .45 caliber shooting a single projectile through a barrel of at least 16 inches in length.

b) The standards and specifications for muzzleloading rifles and ammunition are as follows:

1) A muzzleloading rifle is defined as a rifle that is incapable of being loaded from the breech end.

2) The minimum size of the muzzleloading rifle projectile shall be .44 caliber. A wad or sleeve is not considered a projectile or a part of the projectile. Non-expanding, military-style full metal jacket bullets cannot be used to harvest white-tailed deer; only soft point or expanding bullets (including copper/copper alloy rounds designed for hunting) are legal ammunition.

3) Only black powder or a "black powder substitute" such as Pyrodex may be used. Modern smokeless powders (nitrocellulose-based) are an approved blackpowder substitute only in muzzleloading rifles that are specifically designed for their use.

Just a FYI. Safe amounts of powders like H4198 will get a 275gr bullet out of a 45/70 conversion at well over 2300fps. You can easily break 2500fps with sabot loads. These are simple low peak pressure loads. 58gr of N120 for example is well over 2600fps with a 200gr bullet in a sabot. I dont think that load even makes 33kpsi. Small amounts of N110 are faster than max loads of BH209 and rock solid dependable in nearly any temperature.
.

Thanks! Im thinking about trying out some 40cal Pittman bullets in sabots in my 45cal R700 SML... Would you recommend N110 over H4198?

If you are not careful with N110 it will blow sabots. It may require more tinkering but if you are happy with lower speed loads its great. Ive seen 1 or 2 guys shooting loads as high as 37gr but most cant get over around 33gr before sabots start failing. Use a wad under the sabot. 4198, Reloder7 and N120 are all good powders for the 45cal and sabots. The load i want to try is around 55gr or possibly less of N120 and the Fury 250gr 40cal. The Fury 250 is shorter than the Pittman 225gr but it has a lower BC. Its also less than half the price and bonded.

N120 was claimed to be somewhat temp sensitive with a 200gr. Fps difference as temps drop was more than 4198. My guess is the heavier bullet will improve the milder N120 loads and even 4198. You will get a better burn with the heavier bullet and give up very little speed.

Thanks! I'll probably run some (and maybe some Furys) with 4198 first and see how it goes.

Beautiful and that's what I'm talking about. A more apt question I mean to ask is what does it like to shoot?