...yeah, and I have a supermodel girlfriend.

The back story of this problem is I acquired a custom built .54 Hawken replica a few months ago. It was built in the '70's and has a round ball twist Douglas 34" barrel. No masterpiece, but the workmanship is good, and the styling fairly authentic. The price was about what a new Lyman would cost, and this one was made here, not Italy, so that was a plus.

I looked at the bore with a borescope and though it looked pretty good, maybe a hint of corrosion, but not bad. Shooting it for the first time this past weekend, I got a jag stuck in the bottom of the bore, which required unscrewing the breechplug. After getting it out and cleaning thoroughly, I noted a couple of dark spots, about ten inches from the breech - deeper than I could have reached with my borescope.

I ordered a can of Ultra Bore Coat from here, and ran a wet patch of T/C T-17 blackpower solvent down the bore, and let it sit for a couple of days. My intent was to clean, clean, and clean, then apply the UBC. After a couple days, the first patch I ran down the bore, looked like this:



So much for rust inhibitors. I said several bad words, to put it mildly. So that prompted another round of through cleaning, this time with Shooters Choice, followed by some sure-nuff vegetable oil based products, that I know won't rust the bore.

The bore is hard to photograph, but it looks like this, now:



I'd describe the condition, at least at the breech end, of light pits in the grooves. I pushed a .535 ball and tight fitting patch through the bore, and I can't feel any obvious roughness. Near the muzzle, the bore is bright and no pits are visible. I reckon I'll again clean thoroughly, follow the UBC instructions, and try it.

To sum it up, I guess I have two questions:

1. What is a good blackpowder solvent, that actually works & does not rust the bore?

2. Is this barrel likely to still shoot okay, or should I plan on replacing it?

Hot water with just a little detergent? I use water displacing oil that Brownell's sells after that, patching 'til dry first of course. It's intended to be the final step in the hot caustic salts bluing process.

I would bet ok, take it out and shoot it to see.

00 or 0000 steel wool will get traces of surface rust and assorted crud out and won't hurt anything.

A supermodel girlfriend?

You put up the r-o-n-g pics...

1
Separate your thinking.
A
Clean the barrel
B
Preserve, preventative maintenance afterwards

2
Should shoot just fine as the last few inches of your barrel are good. This is the most important area second only to the muzzle IMO.

hot soapy water. Follow up with JB Bore paste and run a good 150 passes through the bore, clean it out and then follow up with alcohol patches, dry, then use your bore coat.

Got to remember that most muzzle loader cleaners ARE water based to kill the corrosive salts the powder leaves behind.

Yep, JB it and clean all of that out. Degrease and then bore coat it.

thanks - yeah I used hot water & detergent after shooting. I have some JB, so I'll try it next, as well as the alcohol before the UBC.

What solvent works best for a quick clean at the range?

Hawken style, and a Douglas barrel sounds like a CVA. It was assembled in the US, but it's a Spanish company.

Like a Toyota being assembled in the US.

no, it's a custom. Other than Douglas on the underside of the barrel, and the maker's name on top, there are no other markings on it. I also think most of the Spain/Italian guns top out at 32" barrels - this one is 34"

Oh ok. I didn't know it was a custom.

It's humid here in Florida. I use water wet patches to clean, followed by dry. Of 4 muzzle loaders I seldom have to use more than 3-4 wet patches to clean, a couple of dry ones and then an oiled patch. I shoot BP only.

My experience with helping friends try to salvage inlines shot with subs, after attempting to clean with solvents is both sad and funny. Sad 'cause they were told NOT to do that on the front end, and funny because their expression upon seeing their moon cratered bore after cleaning is priceless...apparently a good education is never cheap.

yep. Humid in Houston, too. What oil do you like, after the dry patches?

Montana extreme bore conditioner works well for me (oil/rust protectant)

Will have to double check that but I'm thinking it's by CLP and intended for long term storage. Light brown in color, kinda thick.

It is Breakfree brand "Protector".

Thanks

The rifle didn't shoot too bad last weekend, taking it out again tomorrow.

Sorry but the Toyota is the most American made car now...

The profits go where?

Well I cannot tell you where they all go so if you have a spreadsheet with their finance information broke down then I wouldn't mind seeing it I guess. Your comparison is a bit off and your reply is even more off base. Nothing new you spouting off about things you know nothing about though.

Well lets see who's right.

The CVA gun i'm talking about was at one time made in the US, and used Douglas barrels. Even though the gun was made here. The company CVA is a Spanish company. I'd say the profits went to them, and not the US.

I fail to see how Toyota is any different? A Japanese company that assembles their cars here.

Not hard to understand. Prove me wrong, and i'll admit i'm wrong. Until then. You seem to be the one spouting off about something you nothing about. Another fire no it all.

btw Since you made the accusation. Would you mind showing me an example of me spouting off about something not true?

No markings on the gun, except Douglas on the underside of the barrel, and the builder's name on the top. The furniture is all iron & pewter, not brass, and there's enough handwork visible on it that I don't doubt the gent's claim that he built it.

I had it shooting today, this time with .535 balls and .015 patches, and I was pleased to see it do a little under 2" at 50 yards. Until I get my eyes lased, that's probably about as well as I can do with open sights, though I may tinker a little with charges.

great shooting rifle!

i still think you should try the 530 ball and .018 patch.

I just did 2" at 100 yards with a cva hawken 32" 58cal.

when CVA used Douglas barrels , it wasn�t a Spanish owned company .
now i could be wrong but CVA had never been Spanish owned tell BPI bought it out the last time around.
But lets remember that CVA is an importer not a maker . Just like Lyman , investment arms , Traditions ��..

As for rust .
Like dan , it only takes me a few patches to clean and oil the bores of my guns .
The key is to use a good oil in the bore . Simply put , you cant use to much .
Soak the patch and swab the barrel . Repeat a couple times to insure you get a good coverage in the bore then put the gun away . don�t run a dry patch after . Just leave the oil in there .
On two of my guns I use Remington Rem oil or break free when I have it close .
On my hand forged iron barreled rifle , I use Mink oil . I have had that rifle for over 20 years . The only pitting in the bore is from when I was stupid enough to use a TC product in it for a couple of years .
After bringing the barrel back and beginning a regiment of proper oiling , the barrel shows no more signs of rusting . Now does that mean there isn�t alittle brown color on the patch when I swab the bore prior to shooting . No , there is a little. But that�s IMO because a lot of oils turn brown when they have set for a time and began to dry out . But I don�t get what you showed on your first patch . Basically its nothing more then a slight tan color and mostly showing only in the rifling where the oil is the thickest

Now why do I bring that up . Well because your barrel is a Douglas barrel . What that means is
a) its an extruded barrel
b) it has a higher iron content then the barrels made today .
IE the more iron the mores subject to rust it will be .
That doesn�t mean however that you have to accept rust in the bore , You don�t .
Right now what your fighting is bringing the barrel back . Once you get through all the clean up and begin to regularly maintain the barrel , you going to find you see less and less flash rust in the bore .
Tell then any oil/ lube you put down the bore is going to continue loosening up and drawing the rust away from the bore every time you run a cleaning patch . that�s a good thing .
What you don�t want to see is the patches with more and more rust on them

I found this cap. Not my words, but it seems CVA and BPI are one and the same, and has always been Spanish.

Before you shoot off an email to me stating that CVA is still in business, you should understand that after a somewhat disastrous foray into the manufacture and sale of some poorly designed and constructed inline muzzle loaders, CVA became the target of a number of lawsuits from people who were injured as result of firing these rifles. To legally separate itself from this problem, the management of CVA created a new company called Blackpowder Products Inc in 1999 to which it transferred CVA's assets including the brand name but not its liabilities.

The CVA brand is now just a tradename used by BPI Outdoors, a wholely owned subsidary of a foreign corporation based in Spain.

I have fund that Mobil Synthetic 0 to -20 degrees automotive oil works beter tha any gun oil I have used.It wets better,does not turn sticky with age and most of all,does not get thick in cold temps.Probably not much of aworry with a ML,butit is a good all around firearm oil.

BTW, I store all my firearms with muzzle down to keep any oil from migrating into the woodstocks.I'mn ot fan of synthetic stocks.

yes BPI now owns CVA . but it did not always own cva . when CVA used Douglas barrels , it was a US owned company .
it has always been an importer NOT a builder .
it should also be noted that there has been many companies called CVA which dates back to the mid 19th century here in the US .
what the current CVA company did was simply in so many words , transfer its interests and became BPI .
Which isn�t uncommon today . Remington isn�t owned by Remington . Winchester isn�t own by Winchester . They simply are subs of subs .
BPI is now the parent company of CVA . Which replaced or at least had Jukar build their guns . Very much like Adesa does for traditions .
Very much like Thompson being owned by S&W which also has a parent company called Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (SWHC)
Prior to that it was owned by Tomkins Corporation. Which was a British company an affiliate of U.K.-based Tomkins PLC.
Prior to that it was owned by Lear Siegler . Before that it was as I recall ,Bangor Punta

If we want to we can even go down to as far as who owns the largest % of shares and thus controlling interests in any of these companies.
Would it surprise you to learn that a lot of the time those interests are foreign companies , probably not

Read it again Cap. CVA changed their name to BPI. CVA and BPI are one and the same.

BPI owns CVA. CVA does not own BPI - they are not the same. BPI also owns other companies. The differences may just be on paper but that is true all over the business world.

I used to think that too. Now, i'm not sure. It makes sense that CVA would want to get out of all the law suits.


BPI started in business in 1999. It could be CVA starting the company as has been said, and kept the CVA name for guns. Then went on to buy other companies.

Not sure, but I see no proof that it couldn't have happened that way.

Yes it can happen that way . Companies do it every day . Small business does it when they Incorporate.
Corporations do it when they sell out a controling interest.
Again CVA has never been a maker just an importer