Hi all,
So here's a general question to the audience here.
I know all list are entry level and frankly that is what I need right now. Plan is to go deer hunting this fall with this muzzle loader. So I need something that is reasonably accurate, works, easy to use and clean and decent value.

So the choice at the moment are:
1. CVA Wolf NIB but bought from a second party. Was bought but never fired do to health issues. Less than a year old. $175
2. CVA Buckhorn. Look brand new but is used and may not have been shot. But might have been. (This I think is the older version of the Wolf.) $150
3. Knight Bighorn, used but very lightly so. May be a little rust near the end of the barrel. Bore is fine and checking on the breech. Assuming it's good for now. $350
4. Knight Vision, Brand new, $300 + tax

1 and 4 are break action. All have breech plugs though the Wolf has the new easy remove. #1 also has both open sights and scope rings mounted. Rest are open sight. So all are Washington hunt approved. Not hunting Idaho or Oregon so don't care it fully compliant for them.
#3 is a $650 loader new. This one look quite new. So it's discounted the most. #1 and #2 are pretty close to there original/current listing prices. #1 includes shipping. The other are about an hour or so away. The vision will be from a store or online.

So you brighter people than me. thoughts on which is better or the best route to go? No super rush to make this decision but need to get on with it to get ready for hunting this fall!

I. My experience, the imports such as CVA can’t hold a candle to a T/C or knight. Another thought, Midway and similar online retailers have T/C impacts and other models for as low as $199 regularly. I’d go that route or with the knight and stay away from the imports.

buy the Knight Bighorn never had a Knight that wasnt accurate.. If you take care of them like they should be they will last till your gone and then some.
CVA Wolfs are usually quiet accurate also as is the Optimas which you can get fairly cheap new. Every Optima Ive had was accurate also, as in close to what the Knights will shoot or as good with right load.

Knight or the impact I've got a knight kp1 and my wife has an impact both are good!
Denny

I LOVE my Knight! Super accurate and consistent at 100yds . Added the 209 primer breech plug a few years back, always goes bang and groups 1 1/2 to 2 inch @ 100 w/2 50gr eq pyrodex pellets........

Thanks Everyone.
Your thoughts echo my thinking. Like the Fact that the CVA's are inexpensive with some nice features but hard to pass up that Bighorn.
The gun is a couple hours with traffic south. Hope to get down there soon to check out and confirm it's in the shape stated. At this point I'm going with the Bighorn.
Will likely also work on getting a 209 breech plug since they are legal here now.

I'm really glad I use a sidehammer flintlock with patched round balls! Just because the bullets go into the front end might make some of these nightmares technically a "muzzleloader", but it's sort of like calling a T-bone shaped piece of tofu a "steak"! Sort of nauseating!
Jerry

Good for you and your Flinchlock 👍 BUT, The OP didn’t ask your Opinion of such Gun, He asked about 4 different Muzzleloaders and not 1 of them was a Flinch Lock. I understand we all have opinions, such as mine regarding Flinchlocks (they look like a TURD 💩 that Sparks)
When someone asks a Question it’s a Shame when they are given answers that have NOTHING to do with what they asked.


To the OP, I personally would go with the Knight Bighorn. I use to own a Knight MK-85 which is nearly identical to a Bighorn (Functions Exactly the Same) The Old MK-85s, and Bighorn’s are GREAT Rifles! Very well made, Accurate, and Dependable. My advice if you get the Bighorn is to Familiarize yourself with every part of it, Properly Cleaning the Plunger guns is the Biggest Challenge in my opinion. If you shoot Real Blackpowder it will get NASTY inside the Reciever, I know this first hand from my MK-85, You really should Pull the bolt apart and clean all parts/pieces well after EACH outing. If you take care of the Knight it will last a Lifetime and then some!

My Old MK-85 after 6 Shots, The nipple was a Brand New Treso/Ampco with a TINY .028 Flash Hole, It is AMAZING How much Blowback makes it’s way back in the Reciever Through the Flash Hole


Another view, Again it is EXTREMELY important that you clean ALL of the Blowback out of the Reciever, Otherwise you will have a Pitted Out Piece of Junk


The Bolt assembly (Same as the Bighorn), notice the Spring is Tarnished? This is from the Previous owner NOT taking the Bolt apart and Cleaning, He did not understand how to pull it apart. This Spring needs replaced, thank God for Stainless, Nothing else was Hurt


And here is a Bighorn Hammer assembly, This is a Close Friend of mines Rifle, He Bought the Rifle Brand new and took it out for 1 Shooting Session, Again This is a BRAND New Rifle/Bolt assembly that was Shot 1 time, he did not know/understand How to pull the Bolt apart and Clean, he brought the Rifle by to me to prepare it for an Upcoming Elk Hunt, I decided to Strip the Rifle down and Check his Cleaning? Good thing i did!! Look at this New Bolt Assembly, Now imagine if this had sat in a Closet for a Year instead of 2 weeks.

I'd go with wolf. Very accurate, simple, easy to clean muzzleloader.

Jon, Do all of the Wolf’s have a QLA Muzzle? I shot a brand new 1 last year helping a Guy prepare for Elk, The very first thing I noticed was it had a QLA Type Muzzle, That was Enough for me to know I wouldn’t have 1, in fact i told the Guy if it was mine i would Cut the Barrel back and Re Crown, I just CAN’T do the QLA Muzzle thing! My Bad experience was with TC’s QLA, which was a Well known Problem Child, I seen some CRAZY stuff with a TC QLA Muzzle, it totally RUINED me from ever trusting them, No matter the Manufacturer. I’ll take my Rifling all the way to the Crown 👍, If it has ANY form of QLA Muzzle, someone else can have it, CHEAP

yes all the cvas have the qla. Never had a trouble with a cva qla, but its only 3/8" long vs TC's 5/8" recess. The rifling on the tcs i think is also shallower which may be an issue with conicals as well.

Buy the Wolf and get the BH 209 breech plug. Shooting BH 209 is the way to go, imo. It is more powerful and is easier to clean. It cleans up like smokeless powder. I have owned Knights and the pull cock actions are tough to clean with percussion cap ignition and while the 209 setup is good, but Knight does not recommend BH 209 in a pull cock action.

In defense of Mr. Lincoln, I think the in-lines can defeat the spirit of a primitive weapon hunting season. Some states allow scopes and even the use of smokeless powders, making the gun perform on par with modern firearms. The result is flocks of hunters taking to the woods to exploit an opportunity. I still have not seen an in-line that I would care to buy. One guy I know missed a 30 paces shot at a bull elk because the plastic sights on his in-line had melted or twisted so badly to throw him 2 feet to the right. JMHO.

anyone that would use plastic sights in the first place is a fool. Always replace that crap with steel or aluminum sights. BTW traditional sights, especially brass or silver get bent out of shape pretty easily, so does that mean we should call traditional muzzleloaders junk?

My point exactly. Why would a gunmaker go that cheap? And yes, there are some trad muzzleloader replicas that could be considered junk as well.

I build my own rifles from components, both muzzleloaders and centerfires, so getting flamed by some rude jerk who can't figure out how to load a real ML rifle with a measured powder charge or adjust the patch thickness for optimum accuracy doesn't bother me. He probably wasn't around to be an obnoxious donkeyhole for at least most of the time people have been paying me to build competition target rifles.
Jerry

You and Mr. Lincoln should start a thread on traditional MLs vs. inlines and make your case there rather than hijack one that's seeking information about what the OP is interested in. That's just good forum manners. In that spirit, I'll refrain from correcting your provincial notions about the purpose of primitive weapons seasons in this one.

Funny how its always the sidelock boys telling everyone else what style of ML they must use during the ML seasons.

Same mindset as found among stickbow folks, fly fishermen, sailboaters, etc. Got no time for it.

I see that the OP, ColTemp, is considering a T/C Hawken for sale in the classifieds. To the OP and no one else: you would likely find a higher degree of self-satisfaction learning to use and hunting with that fine piece of equipment! I know where you can buy a .54 cal. Renegade for $200 plus shipping. Was a kit gun, fair condition, shoots well.