Have read Venturino for years, one thing popped in my head today
And hopefully someone knows the answer.

I have often read about bullet base obturation, pointed BPCR bullets
suffering from "slump", and other shape changing of projectiles by
the expanding gas of a powder charge. This is with alloyed (harder) lead
bullets, and even jacketed bullets.

So,

Exactly what happens with a pure lead round ball?
It's about the worst aerodynamic shape one can get,
but, is it even round after ignition? Exiting barrel?
Does it turn into a rounded cylinder?

I have never recovered a round ball from a rifle that wasn't
damaged by impact enough that you couldnt guess what it
looked like before impact.

Ironically pistol round balls, which get formed somewhat cylinderically
when seated in the cylinder, are always "flying saucer" shaped when I
recover them. Due to firing pressures? Or, impact?


High speed photography would answer this, anyone ever see any?

Just Googled, saw a photo of a patched ball out the muzzle.
It was still in the patch, couldnt see it well.

Its still round

Round balls perform excellent I cast all my balls which run a little harder at 7.5 bn VS pure lead at 5bn simply because that is what I have on hand and it works wonderful.

Now this may seem backward, but a round ball leaves a much larger ENTRANCE hole and a smaller exit hole. My guess... That's because the ball is starting to flatten out as it comes into contact with rib/bone and cause massive destruction.

This was with 70gr 3fg and a .490 round ball.
Elk entrance,

exit



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Next this was recovered from a mule deer doe and was a .54cal round ball

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Next this was a .490" ball recovered from a 200 + lb hog shot through both front shoulders at 50 yards.


This years kill again with a .490" ball shot at around 60-65 yards and recovered under the hide. 80gr 2fg. I dont have a pic of the ball yet but heres the outside and inside

I know they do serious damage to deer and hogs.

And caused lots of Civil War Veterans to have an arm or leg amputated.

I have been killing game with muzzleloaders since I was 14. That's exactly 1/2 century. Not every year, but I have killed a lot of game. Exactly how many I don't know.

I have used balls for all but 3. Those 3 kills were with a 58 cal R.E.A.L. bullet cast of pure lead.
I have killed deer and antelope with a 58 cal, a 54 cal and a 50 cal and a 62 cal, and I have killed elk and one moose with the 62 cal.

I don't use pure lead anymore. I much prefer wheel weight metal, air dropped. It is harder then pure lead, yet still hold the patch well, and will give complete penetration on deer and elk and even the moose shot with the 62. The only balls I ever recovered from game were made from soft lead. After I started using WW metal I never went back to pure lead. I stopped using pure lead when I was still a teenager.

I shot a buck with an 8 Bore you built, my butcher ask me if I ran a rock bar through that buck, he's seen plenty of clean cut 12 gauge slug holes, but never a clean cut hole through a deer as large as that 8 Bore, when I told him what it was, I was informed..................son, you aint right! ; ]

So said the buck too.

WAUGH! Just had one of them facebook internet reads tell me you cant use round balls because they dont meet the required 800 ftlbs energy to kill deer. Nor do they meet the recommended 1000 ftlbs energy for elks! Damn flat land pilgrims.

Just don't listen to them and keep on killing stuff. Cheers NC

I was shooting dew North, that buck was facing dew West when the ball went through both shoulders at 22 yards, when the smoke cleared, I should have been looking at his hooves, instead I was looking at his back, that damn 8 Bore rolled him.

LOL, yeah, 125 yards and in, a 58 cal round ball kills like lightening.

Not sure if they stay round or not, but they sure are effective! Was on a pig hunt years ago using my 54 cal Hawken rifle. Guys made fun of it until they saw how effective a round ball is. Shot a big pig running straight away from me, at about 60 yards or so, and only offered the ol Texas heart shot. At the shot, it kinda ran in place for a second and then continued for about 30 yards and piled up. There was a 54 caliber hole just left of center and I followed the "hole" all the way to the ball. The pig was about 4 feet long, tail to snout, and the ball went through the lower cavity, chest cavity, left shoulder blade, neck and ended up in the skull. Penetration?! I'd say so! My load is 90 grains of Goex FFg, wonder wad and a .530" - 230 grain Hornady round ball nestled into a .015" lubed patch. I've successfully used this load for years on many different species. My rifle is an old, late 70's, CVA Hawken kit gun I put together. It has a 28", 1:48 percussion barrel and round balls are all I've ever used in it. Still use it to this day, truly enjoy it.

Porkeaters!!!!!!

Years ago, my FIL came into his kitchen, and asked me if I knew what the marks on this particular ball were.
He had an approximately 50 cal ball, no rifling marks, but you could see the markings of the patch in the lead. Either a miss, or most likely a hit in soft tissue - wouldn't make a guess.

Mark,

Up there in your dad’s neck of the woods that could have been one of Kit Carson or Lucian Maxwell’s rifle balls!!!!

😉

First off, This is NOT to say that ANYONE should EVER attempt Shooting at Game Animals this Far away with a Patched Roundball, That would be a VERY UNETHICAL, and CHICKENSH$T Thing to do!!

This is to Show what my .54 Cal .535 230 Grain Round Ball does at 325 Yards, YEP, 325 YARDS!! To say the least, i sure as HELL wouldn’t want hit with it!



When i left it was PERFECTLY Calm, And it Stayed that way til i packed that 60 Pound Chunk of Steel up the Hill and Hung it on the Stand. On my way back down to my Truck the Wind Started Blowing, GO FIGURE I hoped it would Stop, NOPE it kept getting Worse. It takes a LOT of Work to Set this stuff up, Then Have to leave without Firing a Shot (I’ve had to do that several times) I decided to Throw Caution to the Wind And GO WITH IT. I fired at the Calmest points i could Feel

After the 2 Shots on Steel, the Wind Became unbearably bad, i Started Packing my stuff up, the Wind was blowing my Things off the Tailgate of my Truck. My gun was loaded, The Wind was Back n Forth, I decided to unload my Gun, i Took another Pop Shot at my Target (Off Camera, it was put away in my Truck) I missed, I didn’t hear the Gong Come back? I get up the Hill and Start Taking my Target Down, That is when I Seen this

3rd shot off Camera, Hit High (BAD WIND) Hit my 2X4 Hanger



It Blew Through the 2X4 Hanger, Remember that Old Blown Down Tree Behind my Target? The Ball is BURIED in it! I can see the Hole, But Not the Ball, it’s gonna take tools to get it out, i will get it next time I’m up there

Totally cool Idaho Lewis. That is a 54 and no doubt more juice than a 50 cal. but if it goes through a 2x4 it should shave no problem killing a deer. I will likely limit my shots to 60 yds off hand next week when muzzleloader starts here for deer. I dont know how that Green Mountain 33" barrel is going to work in a tree stand , however, I am very happy with the barrel you recommended, but is that barrel long. My next barrel is going to be a shorter 24"? and perhaps for roundball too.

I have never had any issues with my long barrel in a tree stand, bet you will never notice it.

And That 2X4 was 325 Yards away, A Roundball has a LOT more WALLOP Than one might think

I ended up buying one of them 32” Green Mountain Roundball Barrels as well, I ABSOLUTELY love mine 👍




Patches were getting Ragged, But the 5 Shot Group was Good 👍 I Tested this again with a Solid Material (Cut at the Muzzle, and Pre-Cut) This Went Away. It definitely WASN’T From my Bore, as i have it like a Mirror inside.

Idaho, you are getting better groups but I just have open sights for hunting. You mentioned the peep sights are hard to see through when hunting so I opted to keep plain sights.

For hunting, i do believe a guy is better off with regular open sights, if you can Shoot them well you are FAR Better off 👍 Peep Sights SUCK in Low Light Conditions such as first light, and just before Dark, both of which are PRIME time for Game. I injured my right Eye many years ago working in the Timber industry, I can NOT shoot regular open sights worth a Darn! I see blurry, Even some double vision, When i look Through a Peep i can see CLEARLY again 👍 I just know that i am limited when it comes to Low light

It isn't legal in Missouri but I have targeted two patched round balls in a .58 barreled Remington rolling block converted to inline. It was done before you could get them from Cabellas in the '70s. A pair of Sharon rifled blanks were made to fit interchangeably so one could be a .45 target barrel and the other a .58 hunting barrel. The sights were never installed on the .45 but I used the 58 in a few whitetails seasons. I never targeted the double roundball load except at 50 yards. The two balls hit the target side by side. Wish I had saved that target. If it were legal I would hunt with it some more. I went to an altered minie' at 705 grains. The base plug had been reduced in size and the mould made quite a projectile. Guess I should get it back out and hunt with it. I have used a roundball on deer once. I was mainly squirrel hunting but carrying a Ruget Old Army for fun. Going down a trail and doe coming up. Stopped and made some noise and she kept on coming. I center punched the white spot on the throat and she dropped so fast I couldn't see for the white smoke. as it cleared I saw he flat on the ground not moving. The ball hit and went through the spine then followed the skin for a ways. It was some great meat. I will shoot a fat doe any year instead of a buck unless a large buck comes by and says please shoot me. Trophies are OK I guess but I sure like the meat. Good luck in the field with the round ball. Be Well, Rustyzipper.

I have an adjustable peep on two sights that will let in more light if you want it. I don't know how available they are these days. Could they help with low light shooting maybe? Or take out the peep insert and use it like a ghost ring. You could even put some whiteout on the outside visible surface of the ring to make it easier to find. Maybe it could assist in lower light shots? An idea to test one day. Dillonbuck I wish I had some photos for you. Be Well, Rustyzipper.

That has me curious? Is it a Hadley Eye cup? How does it adjust?

Like this?


Or like this?

Will hopefully be doing some more field research, this coming week, with a patched round ball in Wisconsin's muzzleloader season. I too have no problems with my 32" GM barrel in a tree stand.

Round balls are remarkable killers...contrary to conventional wisdom.

For sure and certain---

I was thinking a Ft Union soldier - but you may be right! (Ain't that far from Rayado, as the mountain man travels).

I have a quickly approaching date back up in Kansas, will try to give a big buck up there a 58 cal round ball for an early Christmas present.

Funny you mention Ft. Union. If they had any company riflemen there that were issued M1841 "American Yagers", the arsenal issue cartridges for that rifle had the patch hand sewed around a .54 calibre round ball!!!

Just some useless trivia for the morning!

I've shot several deer with my Traditions .50 caliber flintlock- - - - -36" barrel, 1:66" rifling twist, and pure lead .490" patched round balls over 80 grains of 3-F black powder. The furthest I 've ever had to track one was less than 50 yards. Most of them dropped within 10 yards or less.
Jerry

A couple of .40 calibre (.395") RB’s. One out of about a 120 lb hog. Other out of a deer.

Sand bank Backstop



You can actually see the Patch imprint

I wish I knew where it went, after he died - I'd like to measure it! I never heard of such a thing, Bob! Hand sewn? For speed reloading, maybe?

Well kinda like speed loading. More convienence. They had them rolled in their paper ctgs just like musket ctgs. Riflemen were issued a leather pouch much like a regular hunting pouch. And a powder horn( early on) which was replaced in the 1830’s by a metal powder flask. ( the paper ctgs were carried in a belly box on their waistbelt). They carried all the makins’ for the ctgs as well as traditional loading too. You know, the army has a particular way they like to do things.

The history and types of the early martial rifles in US service is very interesting. They devised some pretty neat firearms. I’m refering to the era before the adoption of the rifled-musket in the 1850’s.

It is a subject that has the potential to gets some early military purist into heated debates.

I never have recovered a round ball. But deer flop over when hit with one with a 54 caliber round ball. I don't know the energy either. The only thing I would say negative about the rouond ball is it is a bit wind sensitive.

I have not recovered a round ball but it was in the guts somewhere. .570" .. speer or hornady, I forget which. Launched by 120 grains of Goex FFg and an RWS magnum #11 cap. I shot the deer almost head on, slipped the ball into the crease at the base of the neck, punched the heart and liver, and went somewhere "south" beyond that without exiting. I have never seen so much blood, 'course, it was my first and only deer in the snow which made the red all that much more visible.

Tom

TOM,

I did just about the same thing to a dink spike about 40 years ago. Run up a hill right in front of me. Mebbe 6 or 7 yards away. .535 Hornady RB and 120 grns of FFG. Right thru top of brisket and right down the spine. Kinda filleted the backstraps.