Does anyone load their muzzleloader this way:

drop powder/pellets

push empty sabot down barrel with ramrod onto charge

drop bullet down barrel and press into sabot with ramrod

no

Why would you do that?
That’s silly.

To save time and effort of course. Particularly if you need to reload quickly for a follow up shot without swabbing the bore.

This is the 24 Hr. muzzleloader thread. We dont need no second shot.!

I don't see how it saves any time/swabbing, at all.

Do you see how a board press takes less time and effort than a standard bench press using the same weight?

And what if you crush a sabot petal between the base of the bullet and itself?

Oh you're screwed if that happens. Like breaking a rod or getting a load stuck halfway down. Going to have to remove the breech and push it out unless the bullet will fall out the muzzle and you can remove the sabot with the weight of powder or a ball puller.

Duh!

"Help them Father for they know not what they do!"

This. And what if you crush a sabot petal between the base of the bullet and itself?

Good way to create an obstruction.

There is no cure for stupid

But you may not know that it happened..?
Then what?

Ya lost me on that analogy, since you are adding a step. In addition, should you fail to seat the bullet properly in the sabot, you now have the goat @#$% of attempting to get everything back out. Do what you want. You didn't convince me of any advantage.

No. No one with any meaningful experience does this.

Areyou asking, or are you trying to convince?

Its a bad idea for 3 or 4 reasons, and a good idea for none.

Good way to create a detonation situation.
I smell a troll

I'm guessing that as tight as the fit is, that one would be HIGHLY unlikely to get the bullet in the sabot.
Just guessin ya understand!

Yup. Notice he doesn't say HE loads like that.

Maybe he should make a YouTube video to show us how it's done.

Well to be the odd man out, I do. I have a Thompson Center inline, with a tight barrel causing sabots to be hard to push down the barrel. I use Barnes Sabots, and they have a tapered base. I also have my ramrod marked so that I know if the bullet does not seat all the way. Never had a problem with the bullet not seating, nor any accuracy problems using this method. I have been doing this for a lot of years, and have killed several deer with this rifle, using this method. I also use pyrodex, and leave my rifle loaded from year to year, if it has not been shot since cleaning. I also never had a misfire doing this. I use musket caps and the nipple is made with holes on the side and end of the inside part of the nipple. miles

A) Barnes does not make sabots. MMP makes the sabots for Barnes
B) If you are having a hard time loading sabots you chose the wrong sabot
C) Go buy a sabot that fits correctly and load your rifle the way it was designed to be loaded.

You can buy nearly every sabot that comes with bullets by itself for under $10/50. Why you people who been shooting for years dont know this is beyond me. You can get sabots as small as .500 OD and if you cant load that you need some exercise or you got a really bad barrel.

^

Most Barnes come with the MMP HPH-12 or HPH-24 dyed blue instead of black. The TMZ sabot is the only one you can not buy separately. The TEZ sabot is the HPH-24. If you need a easier loading TMZ type sabot use the Harvester yellow sabot for boatails or the Knight blue sabot for boattails if its really tight.

Preach it!

None of those are what I use. Back when Barnes first came out with these, and Walmart was selling them, Around Feb. or March each year all black powder stuff was marked down, every year. I bought up a bunch of these packages for a very cheap price. I have all that I will ever use, and my rifle shoots them well. They do fit tight, but I can seat the plastic part with my ramrod, drop the bullet in and seat it, and it comes to the same mark on my ramrod as the regular seated ones do. I am not telling anybody to do this, but the question was asked and answered if anybody did this. Yes I have shot muzzle loaders for long time and started with a Hawkins. Unlike some here, I prefer the minnie ball over the patched round ball. You do what works for you and I will do what works for me. miles

Bullet will enter the sabot easier if you load them nose first.

How is doing something completely incorrect "saving time and effort"?
The sabot fits on the outside of the bullet, not behind it.

If you are shooting a Barnes 50cal sabot you are using 1 of the 3 sabots i mentioned. They are mostly likely HPH-12 and you can buy smaller sabots that will load much easier. The fact you dont understand this is troubling coming for someone who has shot a ML for a long time and is on a hunting forum. Go buy a smaller loaded OD sabot and see for yourself. You got the list right infront of you know. There are several sabots from both Harvester and MMP that will load easier than what you are using.

Sabots fit tight for a reason, and most are a bit difficult to load.

There's a right way, a wrong way, and a.....nope, that's all the ways, and what your doing is the wrong way.

I may be using one that you mentioned, but not one pictured. Mine looks mostly like the Knight bullets but not exactly. It has a black sabot and the nose has a great big hollow point, and the base is tapered. There is no way that the base of the bullet can catch the sabot petals unless they are badly deformed. I have seen where I do not have a clue about loading, but maybe I am no the only clueless person. I know a lot of people that if you do not do it their way, it is wrong.

I do know that you can buy just the plastic sabot part. This setup is highly accurate in my rifle. My bullet is getting to the same place as it would loading the conventional way. If for some reason it does not, it will show on the mark I have on my ramrod. I do always look. I don't see this as dangerous, but you and some more seem to. I always load my rifle before I leave my house on a hunt, as I hunt my own land, and if it does not seat properly, I have the means to fix it right then. This has never happened, but could. In my mind this is no more dangerous that not seating the sabot and bullet on the powder properly. Again, if you do not want to do this, fine. I am not advocating it at all, but a question was asked, and I answered. miles

In your experience, how did you not know that it had happened?



It's probably my fault for just assuming you were familiar with common bench press accessory lifts so I'll explain. The extra step is when you place the board on your chest to shorten the range of motion and improve leverage.



4 posts later...



How did you test this method out prior to firing? I started with a transparent quickload tube just to see the action with the different bullet/sabot combos we had on hand. I then tested the Barnes MZ expander without a charge, unscrewed the breech plug, and pushed the bullet/sabot out. It came out fitted exactly as you would start it down the barrel using the standard loading method. After trying this a few times (same results) I sacrificed a sabot by folding a petal towards the center, dropped the bullet and seated with the ramrod. As anyone who has thought about this for a minute already figured out, the petal provided no resistance compared with seating correctly inside the sabot. Cutting into precious goat [bleep] time, I spun out the plug and pushed the failed load out.



This year was the first for a 6 day muzzleloader bear season concurrent with the muzzleloader doe and either sex archery seasons. My girlfriend tagged a buck on Saturday and was offered the use of another camp members muzzleloader to hunt does/bears on Monday. She couldn't load what the guy was using so we picked up some Barnes TEZ in town when we got her muzzleloader permit. She struggled to load those on a clean barrel and reloading after a shot wasn't happening. Using a smaller sabot wasn't something we didn't know about, we couldn't buy anything smaller than the HPH24 that comes with the TEZ locally and you aren't getting online orders delivered the same day. Since we planned to drive laurel patches and swampy areas we ultimately decided to keep her close to me, limit her to the one shot in the barrel and I could reload for her in the event that that was necessary.

It's 2020. We obviously have the internet at our fingertips.


Shooting something that doesn't load properly is just silly IMO. There ARE options opposed to loading them in a manner they aren't designed to be loaded. Most seasons are over. Order up what you need to load properly...hit the range and do some shooting.



I have 1 fast twist barrel (I'm a flintlock shooter).

I skipped messing with sabots completely. I ordered a sizing pack from Thor. Found what size loaded properly in that barrel. Ordered a small pack of 250s and 300s in that size. The gun showed it absolutely loved 300s. Insanely accurate. Ordered a 50 pack and don't have to worry about that gun. They aren't cheap so I haven't shot enough to find out if there is a point where they won't load...but with Goex black powder, I've loaded several times without cleaning and they all go down just fine.



Loading the sabot then seating the bullet seems risky. But to each his own. Not my hands and face around the barrel.

I do this with an inline, which is the only muzzle loader that I use sabots in, and as long as the bullet, sabot, powder charge, seats where my ramrod mark indicates it should, I do not see the perceived risk that the rest of you do. If it should not seat at the right place, I would simple remove the breech plug and push it all out. This has never happened. miles

I have an application where this works great!

While loading a soft round ball in a 50cal or 45 cal sabot. You are able to compress the powder - American pioneer/Shockey's Gold, Trip7 etc...

Then drop the Rball down and gently press it into the sabot - Plunks right in easily!

You will find about 80-100ish grains, will send the 36cal Rball with .357 MMP Sabot into 2600+ FPS, and same for the 50cal Rball and .451-2 MMP Sabot

I got about 1.5 - 2 inch accuracy at 100 yards. A great way to use up some old powder

Weight - 36cal Rball = 70grains, 45cal Rball = about 141grains

(By loading the sabot first and compressing the powder, you won't end up deforming the soft lead Rball. These are Low Cost - lightning fast shooters with absolutely no kick!! )

The board press analogy may seem good to you, but it does add a step to the lift. It's an strange, reaching kind of analogy. I honestly don't need you or anyone else to school me in that lift. It just is a stupid analogy. Presumably, you load the sabot first because it's too tight, with the bullet in it. Personally, I think the best solution, is to find a better fitting projectile. You are really taking more time to load. Powder, sabot and bullet, ram home, as opposed to powder, sabot, bullet, ram home. More time, improper use of the system. Maybe it works for you. Wonderful. I'd like to see how the manufacturer feels about it.

As Jerry Clowers Uncle Versy said," What is time to a hog?" miles

Damn guys, if any are having a little trouble seating a plastic sabot, spit on the damn thing and shove it home, piece of cake.

Best thing to do is just to learn to do it right, get the correct fitting sabot/bullet combination to begin with all it takes is a little bit of time to experiment with different size sabots. Then you will have eliminated a extra step and can load even faster then what you are doing.
Spitting on sabots is not a good idea either, sabots do not need lubrication they just need correct size for your bore/bullet.

So who is the keyboard expert that should dictate what I do? miles

Deleted.

No. I just load another bullet & sabot together down the barrel as is normally load my muzzleloader. With a proper fitting sabot it’s not necessary to swab the before loading a second time for any powder. Go with BH209 and swabbing is essentially eliminated.

Simple question for the ones denouncing this. Have you ever tried it? I have tried your way. miles

Why would I even consider trying something that had significant safety risks? There is no upside and a large downside. It should be a non starter.

If a person has the proper sabot and bullet why would they want to try? Simple question for you.Why add another step that has no advantage and has possible problems?

I an INTRUIGED with that idea! My .54 Hawken would use a .429" (115 gr) round ball in the correct MMP sabot. I imagine velocity would be smoking for sure.

Might just be a fund Saturday afternoon shoot.

Do tell about these significant safety risks. miles

So far I think that I have refuted all of the mentioned problems, so I will ask why not add another step if I want too? How is it hurting you in any way? I have seen the dangers and problems mentioned several times, with no mention of anyone having such problems, so I must conclude that y'all are using these terms like the Democrats used "facts and Witnesses" in the impeachment trial, when there were no facts, just opinion, and no actual witnesses to anything. miles

No Sir, no need, as most, if not all propellants are water soluble, a spit patch has worked for 200 years, a spite sabot works too. good luck and safety to you.

^ this.

JFC, no one wants to stop you from doing it if you want. Have at it. Go nuts.

Almost every post has just been to the effect of "why not do it properly (with proper fitting sabots) instead of doing something that increases the opportunity for problems."

You are getting weird about this. Are you seeking validation?

Go load one at a time. Sabot first, then projectile. All day long. Enjoy.

Dont try to pawn it off as the better solution though.

No I am trying to get someone to explain to me where the dangers are, when my bullet and sabot ends up at the very same place no matter which method I use. This according to the mark on my ramrod, that has been in the same place for years, way before I started seating in two steps. Even now I do not always do this, but it works for me when I do use this method. miles

One of the basic fundamentals of proper muzzleloading is to firmly wear your projectile against the charge. If there’s a gap between bullet and base of sabot this is not a safe condition.

If a particular sabot/bullet cannot be physically loaded into a once fired rifle, then the sabot is most likely too tight and the prudent shooter would try a different sabot.

So, once again, the process of loading sabot then bullet has no reason to be performed. However, if you want to do it feel free. It’s your fingers, hand or eyes on the line not mine.

Again, you seemed to have missed this-my bullet and sabot ends up at the very same place no matter which method I use. miles