Thinking of upgrading from the available production guns and getting better quality, better balance, reliability. Looks like many are patterened after historically correct pieces, full length stock, long barrels. Semi-custom? Looking to shoot round balls out of a .54 Like the Hawken style for size and partial stock but considering the others. Thinking those long barrels could be a pain trying to go through any thicker stuff after whitetails which would be it's main use.. Have looked at websites of Tenessee Valley and Cabin Creek
So on production guns the sights are adjustable ( often fiber optic) and the barrels removable for cleaning. I haven't seen one of the semi custom ones up close but (from the pictures) sights do not appear to be adjustable, if not I'm guessing you just have to find the load it likes?
How are they to clean?
Thanks

I can address the barrel length issue: Don't sweat it. I've hunted with traditional flint long rifles and never once felt handicapped by barrel length. And mind you I was prowling a lot of godawful thick stuff- laurel, greenbriars, pine slashings, etc. It's not my game anymore but I wouldn't hesitate to do it again- you learn to "snake" your muzzle ahead of you. It's a different mindset from adapting a short barreled centerfire carbine for such use (which I also happen to think is a pile of hogwash, but that's a topic for another campfire and another round of beers).

Also, don't fret the non-adjustable sights. These things aren't long range target rifles, and their trajectories aren't a handicap inside 100 yards. Regulate your sights for, say, 50 or 60 yards and figure out where the gun hits at 100 yards and hold over a RCH accordingly if you take a shot that far away. One thing I would caution you though is if your eyes are "old and sagging", have the rear sight mounted way forward of "traditional" spacing so you can focus on it easier. The reduced sight radius won't kill you.

Look at the sights on original Pennsylvania rifles and realize that those guys carved a civilization out of the wilderness with them, and if they could do it so can you. All it takes is practice and a willingness to do it.

Caliber? Not many, if any .54's to be found among original PA rifles, .40-.50 (and smaller) predominated. They killed game when it was a necessity for survival and managed it with those "smallbores" just fine- we can surely do it for leisurely purposes. I'm here to tell you a .45 round ball kills PA whitetails with alacrity, all out of proportion to what is intuited.

I happen to build longrifles. Feel free to PM me with other questions...I am no pro...but would be glad to help you out.


Don't be afraid of a long barreled gun. First gun I built was exactly what I thought I wanted. Fiber optic sights. Fast twist 50cal. Good lock. Half stock shorter barrel. It's a killer. Killed 2 of my biggest bucks. But it's heavy and unbalanced.

I bought my first longrifle and fell in love.

38" barrels actually feel short to me now lol. I have a couple 44 inchers and the 38 seems short lol.

With a good swamped barrel, the rifle handles and balances really nice.

I spend my days of the late season still hunting and tracking. 44" barrels aren't a bother.


As far as sights, they are absolutely completely adjustable! They are typically dovetailed into the barrel so you can adjust for windage easily. Elevation, most come with a pretty tall front sight. I'd recommend finding a load that is accurate...then filing down the front sight to get your POI lined up. I use a steel rear sight and silver front sight. Some guys use brass for the front. I find silver is easier to see and keeps it's brightness/shine longer than brass.


As far as cleaning, there's several methods.

There's a few "clamp" type things on the market that clamp over the vent and you put a hose in a buck of water. I have one..it works fine.

Some guys plug the vent with a tooth pick and fill the bore with water and let it soak, clean the breech face, dump, swab repeat till clean...

Personally, I pull my barrel nearly every time. I just prefer it. It's easy. Take the lock bolts out, take the tang bolt out, drive out the pins holding the stock to the barrel and the barrel is free. I then clean it in the laundry tub, dry it, clean the lock and reassemble.


As far as caliber, I personally like bigger bores. 58-62cal. I do have a 54 in the closet to build one day....I just didn't care for what I saw from 50cal roundballs. Lots of guys love 45s and 50s. I like the earlier styled guns as well so that plays a little bit of a role in the guns I build as earlier guns were typically larger bored.


Where about are you from??

Like I said, feel free to send me a message and I can try to help you out!

You guys are getting my juices flowing. I might have to dust off the old gear and get back to my roots this year!

These might help get the juices flowing....lol

Nice pics mauser.
I'm in NE PA
Have shot Lyman, Traditions, T/C. but ready to move up like the ones in your pics.
Thanks for the info, that helps.
Going to the Harrisburg show, thinking there may be some muzzleloader vendors there that I might be able to get a better look at some guns.
Yes on the getting older eyes. Don't know how many more hunting years I have left (do any of us really know?) but would like to get a better rifle for the late season here.

Also, thought about a .58, I just like bigger bores even in modern rifles, but figured the 54 would be a good size. I hear/read the swamped barrels have better balance. I need to avoid something that's front heavy as I injured my left bicep (right handed) and can't hold a front heavy firearm on target for too long before I get some wobble, so that's another reason I though I might be better off with a shorter barrel

I liked my 42 in barrel kentucky style rifle , it is 45 caliber . I also owned a 50 and 58 hawkens rifles , but dident use them very much I liked the long rifle better and killed most of my deer with it. I built it from parts I bought from gun stores . I killed deer up to 100 yds ok. I used a Small Siler lock on it they are the best locks for that style rifle, it never failed me for 40 years use...

Damn good advice here!

Nice Mauser06! Very nice!

Ok then , not too concerned about barrel length. We have a muzzleloader bear season here also, you can use in-lines but this would be my only black powder gun. Being that we have some monster bears here in PA, was thinking the larger calibers for the extra bullet weight and penetration.

I'm from Pa too, and a flintlock is a great tool to own! I think you're right on caliber, a 54 round ball gun works nicely. My first muzzleloaders were 50's, all conial shooters, and I have no complaints.I used to think I knew a lot about muzzleloaders with about 35 years experience, but I learned that I have a lot more to learn.

Read what you can on the forums, go to the Dixon Muzzleloading Fair in July,(Greg Dixon gets a bunch of custom gumakers there every year, and the wealth of information is staggerring). I think bigger is better in round ball, and for bear a .54 will do the job, but a .58 would pack even more wallop.

Take your time to research, get recommendations on the gunmaker, and be prepared to take a very enjoyable trip backward when hunting with your flinter! Good luck!


Quick PS: I'm having my new GPR rebarreled as I write this, it should be about a month before I get it back, then I plan on doing a post on the results. Don't know if it will assist you, but I hope it does.

Thanks for all the replies.

I just sold a very nice flintlock yesterday. It had a 42 inch swamped 54 caliber Rice barrel. It cleaned up very easy, and well as load, because the machining was well done. Great barrels from Rice. Very quick, because it had a quality lock, and importantly it was lined up correctly. Great balance at the rear sight, and that made it OK to carry and hold. Probably easier to carry than you would predict.

So why did I sell it? With the long barrel it was 58 inches long. It was a little bit of a pain to carry in the thicker mountain brush here. It was also 8 pounds 14 ounces, with that long barrel. So again not the best form factor for gray hair and old knees. Typically I can walk 3-7 miles in a hunt on very rough terrain, when I hunt with a crew chasing deer. Light/compact is better.

I have a 54 Jaeger with a 32 inch swamped barrel at 6.5 pounds. It is twice as easy to hunt as the big Virginia form. Again that is me, and my hunts. The long Virginia was a great rifle, but personally I prefer the "carbine". Again, I like a rifle under 7.5 pounds, and a barrel a bit little shorter than 42.

I'm in Berks County.....you're welcome to hit me up as well if you like.

Before you buy ANYTHING, I would suggest you wait till July and come down to Dixon's Gunmakers' Fair. You'll see tons of rifles, get to talk to plenty of skilled builders, and have the time of your life. Jan 31/Feb 1 was another good show over in Lewisburg, but that's history now, lol.

Don't be afraid of long barrels. I hunt with a 46" barreled rifle and have no issued going into the thickets we have here in Berks when I've followed up on shots. I toted it for deer drives up in Sproul SF early in the FL season this year, as well, and had no issues in the laurel or the mountain slopes.

I'm also a big bore fan. My rifle is based on an early Berks/Christian Springs architecture and sports a 62-cal bore.

A pic...



I shot that doe near the very end of this past flintlock season at 105 yards. The entry looks far back, but she was quartering away. The exit went out through the far leg. Ball might still be flying for all I know.

If you come down for Dixon's and want to shoot a bit, there are SGL ranges not far away, and you could shoot my 62, plus I have a 36-cal rifle and a 16ga fowler.

Thanks for the generous offer tddeangelo. I just may wait until the July show at Dixons. I figure close to 2hr drive for me. Not sure what the prices run for these, but I see a Tenessee Valley stock rifle runs about $1500 or so. I figure at my age (and economics), one good flinter should take me to the end of my PA hunting days. Just wondering if I wait until July or August if I can get one by next season.

What Gnoahhh said.

Have a 42" barrel .45 long rifle that weighs 7#3 oz. Handles like a wand and is stupid accurate. All we have in my area is close dense cover. Would not change a thing about it. Takes fewer patches to clean than any of my smokeless guns.

Depends on what you want. If you want to commission a gun for you, made to your interests/tastes and measurements, it will not be ready for flintlock season. Even ordered now, with most makers it would not be ready for this coming season.

The rifle I showed in my pic is a rifle I commissioned to be made for me be a maker who is at Dixon's fair regularly. My wait was a smidge under 3 years from booking the build to when I picked up the finished rifle. That gentleman I think is backlogged about 2 years currently. Some are less.

If you go into commissioning a rifle, you need to understand two things:

1- the wait is there because they make these things by hand and can only make so many of them. Good builders are in demand.

2- The cost will shock you, but you also need to know that a good barrel will be 300 bucks or more. Locks are 200 and up. Stock blanks are 250-300 and up. With metal fittings (ramrod pipes, trigger, trigger guard, buttplate, etc), you'll quickly hit or exceed $1000 just in the raw material. An exceptional builder will still have many hours in shaping the wood, fitting everything properly, and then doing whatever stylistic things you are interested in having...carving, inlays, etc. If you prorate the cost (minus materials) over the time spent, they are not getting rich. Not by a long shot.

Now, all that said, there is nothing at all like a rifle made for you. I own three guns. Two are good fits and I bought them from someone else, so they were not made for me. But they fit me pretty well. The one rifle that was made for me, though....shouldering that one is like slipping on that old pair of jeans that is just perfect. When that rifle comes to my shoulder, I don't have to find where my cheek should be, I just lay it to the stock and it's there. I don't look for the sights, they're in front of my eye. I don't have to acquire the target...I look at it as the rifle comes up and the sights are there as if by magic. Except it's not magic, it's a rifle that was made to fit me perfectly.

The wait is tough, but it's worth it.

If, however, you are looking to keep the budget a bit more wallet friendly and be ready for this coming fall, still go to Dixon's. Many builders will have guns for sale that are done already. Dixon will have a bunch of custom/semi-custom guns for sale in the shop, too. If you fall in love with one, you could very well walk it to your vehicle that day.

If nothing else, you'll learn a lot.

Beware of haste in this endeavor. If you want to do this once and call it done, take your time and make sure to do it right.

Thanks again. Was wondering if they had some at the fair ready to go. Just want a better-than-production gun I can hunt with. Nothing too fancy, just quality and practicality for what they are. Although I'm a sucker for nicer wood. Biggest thing for me is probably total weight and LOP with these short T-rex arms. Having not put my hands on any a build is probably not practical. I'm sure once I dig into these I will need to use some strong restraint to be one and done, but I'll give it a go. I'm fine with going 1500 or so if I have to, 2K would be harder to justify (mentally).

................or I may just have to do a recon mission to Dixons sometime soon.

If you go to Dixons, stop by the butcher shop near the highway. They have everything!

http://www.dietrichsmeats.com/

Gnoahhh....knows, all ya gotta do is listen.

I shot numerous Lyman and T/C guns over the years. Usually in .54 cal.
Then over a year ago I got the bug to find a gun that shot better than the 1-48" twist would allow with a patched round ball. I found a used T/C Renegade at Dixon's. The previous owner had ditched the factory barrel and replaced it with a 32" Green Mountain barrel, 1-60" twist. My usual load is 90 grains of FFFg, .530 ball, .020" patch. I tried that in this gun and my first three shots all touched at 100 yards. Now it was just under an inch to the right, but I didn't touch anything.

Sounds like a keeper. Besides the barrel, the lock on the ones I'm considering are reported to be smoother and more reliable and of higher quality. I guess it's the same story you can get it done with a plain Jane remington or a deluxe sako.

One of these days I'll make it to Dixon's Gun Fair. Been threatening to for many years....

Yeah, if you throw bears into the mix a .50-.62 makes sense, unless you're a really picky shooter who can thread a smaller ball precisely where it needs to go. Not beyond the capabilities of a lot of guys, but bears, even in PA are not a really common commodity and it would be a shame to pass one up because you couldn't slip that little ball perfectly into its brain pan or spinal column.

Don Hamilton, of Pumpkin Mountain Gun Shop in the Adirondacks, had a bullseye tacked on the wall with a single bullet hole perfectly smack dead center. When I asked about the significance of it he chuckled and fetched out a pretty .50 flint long rifle and said it was the first shot out the tube of the gun, administered at midnight after finally getting the gun together (still in an unfinished state), over the hood of the Chevy pickup, by the lights of his wife's car illuminating the target 50 yards away. He said "good enough", cleaned the gun and went in to grab a couple hours sleep before the bear season opener in the morning. He then turned and pointed to a dandy black bear head mount on the opposite wall, which succumbed to the second shot ever out of that barrel, one hour into the season. Hit it high in the neck right behind the skull. He was a helluva guy.

If you’re worried about ‘cleaning’ probably best to take up golf or mumbly peg!

MMmmm, not "worried" about cleaning, just wasn't sure how it was done compared to production guns that I take the barrel off and use a bucket of soap and hot water. Couldn't see from the pics I saw IF or HOW the barrel comes off.

there is no smell like boiling water and BP mixing! makes cleaning something I actually look forward to! one of the smells that makes me feel 60 years younger!
ps. I enjoy a good game of mumbly peg too!
never bagged a golf in my life.

Most long rifles, the barrel is pinned to the stock, and it is semi-permanent. So the barrel stays in the stock.
Generally you take off the lock and clean that is a soapy water bucket.
The rest of the gun resides in a cradle where I squirt in a cleaning solution. I usually do this at the range because it is messy to do in the house. I usually use Simple Green, because it is said to not have salts in it. Most soaps are loaded with salt, so read the labels. I pump this solution out of the flash hole with a cleaning rod with a pretty tight patch. I repeat that until I feel it is pretty clean, then I use a new patch and check the cleanliness. When it appears clean, I switch to dry patches. If the dry patch is dirty I repeat the Simple Green scrub.
Then I apply a damp patch with water and Ballistrol mixture. That serves to cut the residual acid residue, and again as a cleaner. This step is intended to chemically clean contamination in the metal pours. I then dry the barrel, then apply pure ballistrol. I usually swab with Ballistrol the next day just to assure the carbon/sulphur residue is cut.
Pretty easy to do.

That's pretty much how I do it too. I bind a fluffy rag around the lock mortise to catch the black goop that spritzes out the touch hole in order to keep that effluvia off the wood.

For de-mountable barrels, such as found on half-stock guns with hooked breeches and forend keys, and muskets with barrels banded to their stocks, I take a different approach. I step into a hot shower with barrel and cleaning rod in hand and clean it at the same time I clean myself. Away go troubles, down the drain!

Got it !

Pinned barrels come off just fine. It's not hard to do, but you do need to exercise some common sense. I have kids and dogs. No one, NO ONE, is allowed in the kitchen when I am cleaning a flintlock and dismounting the barrel. The fore stocks are very slender and would be easily broken in an "oops". Everyone is banished from the room until I'm done.

Lately, I've taken to using Bill Slusser's breech face brushes and his cleaning method. You can find it on YouTube. Simple and effective.

I still think they should come out of the stocks once a year. I do mine around the end of flintlock season.

The other thing that should be done that is often missed is pulling the frizzen off the lock to clean the gunk out that accumulates that doesn't easily come out. I don't like to dunk my lock. I clean it with a little dawn and water, and then set it on my pellet stove to dry while I do the rest. Then lightly oil and replace the lock when the gun is otherwise done.

LOL! Noticing the thread purge when I got home last evening. No biggie!

But! I had to excuse myself yesterday morning because the opportunity to do a quick scout up on the ranch presented itself. Feb 16 and it was almost 80 degrees! So much for my enjoyable "cool" sojourn in the Texas Hill country! Well I made the best of it. Went to places I hadn’t been in 45 years! Lots and i mean lots of pig sign.
Ended up down on the cypress lined creek. No pigs were harmed, but I’ll be back!

Smoothrifle is still loaded with buckshot. May try again before the weekend. When I do clean, I’ll try to post pics of my tow and tow worm for those who have never seen them in action.

Shameless selfie from back in the hills of Blanco county.



Down on the creek bluff. Ol’ smoothrifle.

Wow, that's a pretty flintlock. Any information would be appreciated.

20 gauge Virginia style smoothrifle built by the late GL Jones formerly of Tremonton (sic) Utah. It’s a sweet gun to pack all day! Weights around 7 pounds.

I have two of Glen L’s guns this one, And a .50 cal Virginia style rifled gun I got from him is about 1996.

Very nice, thanks

Thanks you!!!!

My new-to-me 16ga fowler with a tree rat it dropped from a branch where said rat thought itself safe....

Turkeys are on the menu for this one later in the spring.

Very niiice!!!! An elegant fusil if I may say! Yeah I may have to do a turkey hunt this year. I like calling em up in the spring with the old wingbone.

Again, very nice smoothie!!!!

Could someone explain the loading sequence to me on these smoothbores? powder, what? shot, what? What do you use and why? Thanks.

Depends on what smoothie I’m totin’ that day.

The one above is loaded in this sequence;

Powder
Thin greased card wad
Two greased felt wads
Buckshot or round ball
Thin greased card.


My northwest gun

Powder
Hunk of wasp nest
Shot or round ball
Another hunk of wasp nest
I get real laid back when hunting with a NW gun! 😁

Fusil de chasse
About the same as Northwest gun
Depends a lot on what wadding I may have in pouch 😁
I have LOTS of wasp/yellow jacket nests.
It works real well and it dissipates rapidly and does not burn.

I generally use equal volumes powder to shot. Sometimes mebbe a tad more shot.

I have a 5/8" punch that I cut felt wads out of old hats with. Also cut card wads outta some stiff pasteboard. I put em in an old shoe polish can (remember shoe polish?) and put in a hunk of home made lube. Usually either beeswax and olive oil. Or beeswax and bear oil. Melt it with m heat gun and let it soak into felt wads.

With wasp nest I just break off a piece of nest and use it for over powder and overshot. I get lazy. But it works ok!

All folks have their own ways of doing things.

Very interesting, thank you. Have you ever patterned your shot loads? At what distance are they effective to? This is very interesting, really don't need to get all ramped up over it. But it might be to late.

I’m kinda old school. I don’t go around patterning my guns or even doing a lot of target shooting. Shoot when I have to. Sometimes shoot for fun. But usually I’ve not found the need to pattern although there are lots of folks who do and feel its important and more power to em. I usually do my patterning on squirrels, rabbits, piglets, etc!😁.

kinda small pattern board. Must work just fine.

Ive kilt deer, hogs, turkeys, rabbits, squirrels with no issues with my smoothies. Using round shot, buckshot, and birdshot.

My fowler came to me as the third (or more) owner in its history.

The prior owner handed me his results at patterning.

The load for squirrels I use is 100gr 2F, a nitro card, 110gr by volume of #6 shot, and a thin overshot card. Works well enough and is simple to load.

His turkey load was basically the same, but substitute 711gr (1-5/8oz) of #9 TSS shot. That isn't for everyone. It does leave some minor marks inside the bore. Very few shots are used, and you can remove a charge without firing the gun, so very few shots of TSS are actually used. His patterns were more than sufficient to kill a turkey at 40 yards.

I've shot groups off the bench at 50 yards that were well under 3" using patched round balls (not traditional to load that way, but it is efficient and effective) and 100gr of 2F. Round balls for a 16ga are little cannonballs. 0.648" orbs that feel like artillery rounds, lol.

I toted it for a bit for deer, but never had one inside the 75 yard limit I put on the gun.

I wound up shooting a doe late in the season with my 62 rifle at a touch over 100 yards.

My goal for that fowler is to kill a few more squirrels before the end of the month, and hopefully a bunny or two. A turkey or two this spring, and then a deer next fall. Or eventually. Just neat to tote the same gun for several different critters.

This particular barrel has been jug choked. As I understand that, the bore is slightly larger than intended bore until near the muzzle, where it then "constricts" to stated bore size. This permits use of round balls if desired, and is supposed to improve both round ball accuracy and shot patterns. I can't say definitively if it does or doesn't. The prior owner had it jugged and he said it noticeably improved shot patterns. He didn't shoot it much with round balls, but I've seen it perform very well with them, as mentioned. I don't know what it did with them prior to being jugged.

Tddeangelo!

Shot a doe once with an old 24 bore NW gun I had that all I had to shoot in in were .440 round balls!! So I used 4 balls and about 70 grains of 3fg. Hit her with all 4 balls at about 40’yds! DRT.

Bottom line. I’ve had a lot of fun with flintlocks!! 😊