I Live in WA and bought a TC System 1 about 25 years ago and had fun shooting it. I mostly just shot round balls and “plinked” with it. I never got to hunt with it and let a buddy borrow it for a special hunt. He didn’t clean it, it got trashed. I kept hunting modern and archery and never got back into it.

So, I’m interested in getting back into it. I’m more interested in the modern rifles because I live on the wet side of WA state. I know the rules have changed since I last shot a muzzleloader 25 years ago, and there are a lot more options in rifles. I’d like to find a rifle with open sights, using a reliable ignition in wet climate. I’m interested in the rifle as a tool, not a lifestyle.

What say all? A friend has a Knight ultra light and seems to like it. I’ve looked at Knights, Encores, and CVA. I just don’t have the experience to know what features to value over others.

A little pricey, but you know I like the Knight UL

I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be a bad idea to pick up one of those Bighorns for less than $300 and hunt a couple years before I dump $1k on the UL. Midway has the CVA Accura V2 for under $400 as well.

I’m a Knight fanboy myself, slightly older crop. I do a fair amount of IL deer hunting with the M-L, kinda a free for all with the regs there.

I don’t know the regulations in WA State. I’d go with a modern inline if allowed. A scope is no biggie, though I use one if able.

I have a 50 cal CVA wolf and with 100 gr BH 209, Federal 209 primers and Harvester Green Sabot/ Hornady 300 gr .458 jacketed pistol bullets it shoots 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 yards. I have $125 in the ML rifle and $100 in the scope but I don't think you can use a scope where you hunt.

You don't have to spend a lot of money to have a great rig.

Tracy

Tell us your secret on how you get a 458 bullet in a Harvester 50x44cal sabot. I would love to hear it. I did not even know Hornady made a 458 PISTOL bullet. Even if it is a .452 it must be a real trick getting it in a Harvester 50/44cal sabot.

I got outta muzzleloading 10-12 yrs ago! Two yrs ago I decided to pick it up again. I found a 50 cal CVA Optima V2 LR, 26 in stainless fluted, 209 primer at Wally World during their "clearance" sale madness. Regularly 400 bucks, for 164. Also found 5-6 bottles of Blackhorn 209 for 9 dollars per. Bought all they had. I use 300 gr 44 and 45 cal XTP bullets in Harvester Green and Black sabots. It shoots either one really well!

I guess what Im trying to say, check out the line of CVA rifles!

It isn’t difficult to keep a flinter’s lock dry in rain. They figured that out over 300 years ago.

BP substitutes are gay.

Good luck,

Lord Black

I guess I'm old school. I still shoot a 50 caliber T/C Renegade with No Excuses or Hornady Great Plains conicals, 2F Goex black powder and I've switched out the #11 nipple for a musket cap nipple. Because my 63 year old eyes aren't what they used to be, I've added a Williams Fool Proof peep sight and a green fiber optic front sight. I've always thought the muzzleloader hunt should be, at least, kinda primitive. Probably the same reason I shoot a recurve bow and cedar arrows. I never could get used to compounds. Hell, they have training wheels on them.

Well thats super you 2. Maybe you can start your own topic about "anti inline" crap. The OP however asked about modern MLs. Oddly your "opinions" did not seem to even remotely apply to his topic.

Knights are great rifles and capable of several ignition configurations. Im not a fan of the FPJ but they are quite resistant to bad weather.

I tried to order a CVA Accura V2 and had some issues getting it delivered. Ended up with a T/C Encore Pro Hunter FX .50 cal. put a Williams peep on it and plan on shooting it this week. I will also pick up a traditional rifle of some sort, hopefully a .54.

Small world. I lent out my TC Hawken to my friend Bud. He returned it a year later,he hadn't cleaned it, barrel ruined.

He asked about inlines/modern guns due to concerns about living on the wet side of the mountains, no? Implies he thinks old school BP guns are vulnerable to rain. That isn't the fact of the matter. Just sayin'. I didn't post here to start a riot, we already got enough of that going on here in America.

I live here in Floriduh, the Rainshine state. Hunting with conventional BP guns in our weather is no big deal. Doesn't matter if they are caplock or flinters. Simply to grab a piece of soft leather, tie it to the wrist/barrel on the bottom side and flip it over the top. Don't point your muzzle to the heavens and carry on. Flip the leather off and kill something when it suits.

FWIW, I've not used BH209 and won't comment on it, but 777 and Pyrodex left uncleaned will trash a barrel right quick after firing if the air is wet/humid and it's not cleaned properly. One of my lazy friends found that out the hard way. Real BP is easy to clean contrary to popular myth and with all that said, I merely wanted to offer and alternative. Yeah, I know, BP guns aren't accurate and are old school junk.
50 yards offhand:



Hope that helps get the knot out of your shorts.

I have and use both types. Either can fizzle in damp weather, or work just fine. First thing our OP need to do, IMO, is learn the rules in WA. If he goes traditional, no problem. If he wants an inline, Knight makes models that meet the Western regs, as may other makers.

When I ordered my new Ultra Lite, I specified Colorado Legal, which has sights and legal breeching for that state, and is also D&T'd for optics. A percussion bolt and plug would, I think, make it WA and OR legal, not that that's ever gonna happen. I just wanted every option on the table. i also got the nitride over SS finish. Replaced the rear leaf with an aperture, which may not be legal on the coast. No question about Knight quality,if you're willing to spring. If one of the less pricey ones will meet the regs, go for it. Midway has, or had, good deals on Knights. You order through them, the rifle is built and drop-shipped by Knight. I saved maybe $200.

I dont think he gives a rat's ass if you can keep your boat paddle dry. The OP asked about 3 specific makes and none on them sell rock scratchers. He went as far to say he wants a tool and not a life style. So if you like playing dress up and scratching rocks to ignite your powder ....have at it but nothing you offered is remotely close to the topic or even what he was asking about.

BP subs are gay huh? WTF does that mean exactly? So to be manly you got to play dress up and scratch rocks instead of a 209 with a far less corrosive powder like BH209?

You think they're gay?
Been a weirdo all your life, hey?

GFY,

DD

I can tell you that if you are hunting in wet weather you need a barrel condom at a minimum. I am going to order a Caldwell allweather fast case and try this also as our muzzleloader season typically has rain or snow. A cousin used to wrap his action in saran wrap before he left the truck in a rain also.
I have had a number of CVA muzzleloaders and think pretty highly of their Accura's for the money. Blackhorn is a world of difference from pellets or 777.

I've had a Knight original disc rifle for 25 years. Bought it for $150.00 with a metric ton of bullets, powder, sabots, cleaning supplies and accessories. Killed a pile of deer with it. Bought an encore last year, and will go back to my knight this season. Screwing the kid and letting him have the Encore

Must be that time of the month.

Knight is running a special on their Wolverine's right now. Dynatek coated Green Mountain barrel, Timney trigger, Williams fiber optic sights, all for $199. I picked one up myself even though I didn't need one.

So, I’ve been shooting my Encore with 100gr of BH209 and a 245gr PowerBelt. Accuracy has been decent, as in I can keep all my shots on a paper plate from field positions out to 100 yards. I may see what the 295gr bullets do. In WA, any primer is legal now and you can have a closed breech. I’m using Federal 209A primers.

Some of the local BP shooters have been really helpful. They have me wanting to buy a traditional rifle, but I’m gonna stick with this and develop some practical experience.

Those Powerbelt cups aim the bullet better with lighter powder loads. I normally use 80-85gr of powder with my 295gr copper-clad HP Powerbelts.If you must shoot heavy powder loads, move to a sabot/bullet. A cheap place to start are T/C Cheap Shots and Hornady XTPs in 240gr. Once you get those dialed-in, then move-up to a meaner sabot/bullet.

Personally, I would kick your powder charge down to around 85gr. Then tweak it once you get good groups. I've never had any luck using 100+gr charges with a Powerbelt at 100 yards or more. I tried different ways to improve too. I would bore-butter the bottom of the Powerbelt cup. Then I would try using a fiber wad under the cup.

I like to reach out sometimes to 125-150 yards. But I couldn't depend on the Powerbelt, unless my charge was down around 80-85 grains. I don;t use any aiming sticks or sandbags when I shoot. We move around the Forest woods all the time. Sometimes I don't even have a tree to lean against. So I need an accurate bullet and lately it's been with 300gr XTPs and a Harvester ribbed sabot using Goex FFF powder.

Opinions vary on Powerbelts, but even those who like them seem to prefer the heavier ones, FWIW. 80gr of powder is plenty for any of them. Your Encore can handle better stuff, and by buying sabots and bullets separately you increase you options and save money. Among assembled combinations, I like the Barnes T-EZ 290. I'd like to try the Federal Bore Lokt (or whatever they call it) but have so much other stuff on hand I'll probably never get to them.

I too am in WA but only ML hunt elk. I use a TC Pro encore with 110 and BH209 and a 300gr Ballistic Tip and standard Winchester 209 magnum primers.

A Win209 is not a magnum primer but they work well in some rifles. Fed209A and CCI 209M are quite a bit hotter.

Thanks for all the guidance. I bought a few different bullets to try. I got some 295gr Powebelts and some other options from Hornady and TC.

Hey, guys,

Does Federal still make the 209A shotshell primer? I was just wondering and from what I have read about my NTM T/C inline, the Fed. 209A is hotter for using Blackhorn 209 powder. Thus should give better ignition to the powder?

Thanks!
Brittman

A few years ago,I bought a carton of 1000 Winchester shot shell primers. I pulled the last 100 tray out of the box the other day so I figure I have used maybe 850 of them. First in a TC Black Diamond,then and now in a TC Impact all using BH209.I have never had a misfire or failure to ignite. I am in a drier area in Colorado, though we usually get rain in ML season.

I just went to the store and bought 1000. So far, I’ve had good luck with the 209A and BH.

Fingers outran my brain, I am shooting federal 209a’s. That and the 300gr ballistic tip has always done great for me, even better that Nosler runs a sale on them a few times a year.

As a general guide line....Use a mag primer with BH209 if you have any doubts. I dont need them but i have plugs modified to fit them better for occasions they might help. Plugs like the Omega and Impact really dont need a mag primer at all but on the long quick release Encore or Pro Hunter plugs its probably a good idea. I seem to recall there are no less than 2 versions of the Encore and PH plugs.