Having seen how much energy they can soak and just stand there (my cousin - a resident who meat hunts, just punches both lungs and waits for them to fall-often shooting a 2nd and 3rd shot)... wondering what shot placement others use.

Read Dogzapper post about Chub at Nosler using a 6.5 120gr killing them fast, wondered what shot placement seems best if you have the opportunity to really thread your bullet...and want to put them down ASAP.

Thanks.

Will a heart shot kill faster than lung shot?

If you want to stop them right there shoot them through the front shoulder . 1 broad side lung shot is all it takes to kill them often the guys that keep shooting till they fall wind up pushing them in to running with the back ups. Give him one shot in the lung and more than likely he'll stand there wondering what bit him and then just dump over.

I have found this to be true. Last years, for example, took one through both lungs and and ran into some bush. I sat down, had a cup of coffee and after about 10 minutes found him, dead, about 20 feet into the little grove of Spruce he had ran into.

I would have to imagine they cannot live much longer with one shot thru the lungs than more.....thanks guys.

I'd be careful with lung shots if they are close to water.

Lung shots for most opportunities but a neck shot for those standing close to water or in some loaction where running a few yards would cause a problem. Although, this last fall, I shot a big bull in the neck [80 yards] with 300WSM 180 TSX and he didn't go down but stood there for the second shot.....recovered both bullets in neck muscle.

I have had about a 10% success rate on tipping moose over with the first shot. A brain shot will both kill and drop a moose instantly, obviously. Anything else is comes with some uncertainty. (I did not say a head shot because simply shooting a moose in the head leaves A LOT of room for missing their brain - and neither dropping, stopping, nor wounding them in a manner which is rapidly lethal.) I avoid headshots except from a feet feet when dispatching them - and, avoiding an antler splaying shot, I sometimes don't successfully kill them instantly even then.

I have had three instant drops over the years. The first moose tipped right over with a soft point shot through the lungs from less than 50 yards. I don't remember how close to the heart the bullet went. It was my first big game kill and I don't remember doing any forensic analysis. I have since had a moose tip right over, not very dead, when I broke both shoulders through the humerus/scapula joints and another which disappeared from view during recoil from what I could only determine must have been the proverbial "shock". (There was no extensive bleeding nor were any bones broken, but the bullet passed near both the kidneys and the spine which dropped the animal so fast that his antlers speared the ground and his nose was skyward. It took me several minutes to find him after looking where I thought he would have gone in a wounded state, but then finally finding him right where I had last seen him. In other words, he may have lived in the awkward position as he fell and died from suffocation or a "broken neck" perhaps.)

But, generally, I simply shoot moose through the lungs and that has been a quickly lethal and very reliable way to get the animal killed. Sometimes they've moved a few yards, sometimes they simply stand around. Breaking one shoulder (or even a hind leg) may not drop them or even stop them. Spine shots have alway worked well too - at least as secondary shots. I've never aimed to hit the spine as a primary (first) shot.

While I am a dedicated "lung"er, a few things I think I've learned include these:

* Moose are not difficult to kill

* Moose make excellent bullet traps; they can stop some of the best bullets you can send their way. IOW, they are bigger and tougher than most other NA animals.

* The only really reliable way to drop a moose instantly is with a CNS shot, but CNS shots are often not simple nor is a "near miss" a reliable killing shot.

* Moose have a very large lethal killing zone: the lungs. And, short of a watery death hole possibility, it is otherwise a good place to poke them. (That's why I am a dedicated "lung"er.)

But based on why I've seen so many moose die from lung shots, it appears that they either drown in the own blood or die from bleeding out (loss of blood pressure). Either will take some time, though bigger blood-letting holes probably hasten things. I would imagine that is the answer to the question about light BT type bullets and their effects.

I always go for a behind the shoulders shot if I can get it. As mentioned above, they oftentimes don't show an indication of being hit even though you "know" it was a perfectly placed shot. I have no problem of hitting them a second or third time behind the shoulder as well. IF it looks as though he's gonna move into deep water and/or a slough/pond, then I have no problem hitting him again in the shoulder to put him down right then. I don't like that shot - too much meat lost but it beats dressing him out in a muddy, no-seeum infested slough. Use a premium bullet too. Bear in Fairbanks

You could always aim for the shoulder and get lucky by spining him, right Wildone?

No matter where you shoot a MOOSE in the kill zone, it takes 1 minute and 57 seconds for the moose to realize that he/she is dead and to fall over--time it next time you shoot a moose.

That sounds about right. A few years ago my brother and I scored a double on moose. We were both shooting and we could hear the bullets hitting them. They just stood there and absorbed the shots. Mine had two shots through the boiler room spaced about 3 inches apart, but he finally fell when I spined him. I was shooting a 7mm Mag with a 175 Nosler Partition.

They can take a lot of lead and seem unfazed.

Steve

I agree, never heard Moose being 'hard to kill' but they do take a little while....1:57 to drop

My cousin talked about hating to shoot one while in any water, or going into water post shot......they do use a portable gas powered winch which seems to be a huge help, if not necessity.

Appreciate all the feedback gang.

Oh, the Bullet Trap comment...I agree, esp. after witnessing many hits on video. Never seen any other animal soak up that much impact and not even flinch....perhaps an elk with certain shots, but the Moose seemed to most often just soak up lung hits.

I'd add a lot of heavy cover- and /or close to dark- and/or in rain (washes any blood trail out), to the "close to water" bit.

Having lost two lung hit moose long enough for the meat to taint (one of them for 10 days!), I am now a dedicated, but not fanatical CNS shooter when I can get it. That means a standing or slow-moving animal inside 100 yards, with me in a steady shooting position- not necssarily, but preferably with a rest, preferably sitting or kneeling. But whatever.... An accurate scoped rifle goes without saying- or should.

In more open country where recovery is near-certain I'll hang with the double lunger- they bleed out better, for a higher quality meat IMO.

CNS not "quickest kill" necessarily, but done right, they don't go anywhere but straight downS, so you do know where they are! A finishing shot - whether or not they are "dead" is highly recommended with any shot placement- and approach from behind! I've got the dirty pants to show for this advice!

I'll second or third the bit about- if you know you double-lunged them for a fact and they are just standing there, or walking slowly toward the nearest cover, follow up shots may just serve to spook them, so just wait - unless you have an opportunity for a good CNS shot for your second round.

Hit em anywhere close or under the spine they fold pretty fast, if shot happens to hit that high.I aim behind the shoulder myself.Shoulder is not a bad choice but big bones fast bullets= huge mess more if shot at closer ranges.

Yup they can take the lead and stand like no other.

HUMP SHOT! It's the magic shot and pulls the rug out. Does not kill them just anchors them while you run up and stick the muzzle in their ear. Dead center in the hump, and you will be a coolie labourer. The next best is a Texas hart shot, they only pogo stick with front legs for a short distance. Drag useless hind legs. Forget the kill with the first shot. Always go for the anchor shot.

I have shot more moose with a bow than a rifle. Double lung shot with complete penetration usually stops one in 100 yards or less. Taken, you don't spook them into runnig full out. I shot one in BC 20 years ago. He was a record book moose at 20 yards facing away. I made a double femoral/aorta artery shot including the liver, diaphram, both lungs from behind with a 125 grain broadhead. The guide went ape sh-t. I told him to settle down and watch. The moose went 40 yards and piled up. The guide was flaborgasted. I explained that a arrow works on hemorage not hydrostatic shock. The arrow exited the brisket. I had a fabulous blood trail. The guide was not aware that most skilled archers can shoot a 2" or less shot placement at 20 yards. I would not have recomended this for a shot longer than 20 yards. I have killed most moose with in 20 yards with a bow.

Nat Lambeth

Good point about spooking them - with anything.

A gun shot a archery ranges and well beyond will almost always cause them to bolt, unless anchored. Actually any untoward noise or event will- it's their first line of defense against a rushing predator - bolt first, then look around! Once 30 or 40 yards off safely, stop and figure out what's going onif nothing is still after you. I've seen several unaware (key word, that!) moose shot at distances greater than 175 yards or so, and they seemed not to react to the gunshot sound, only to the hit. In fact, I once had a horny bull come in to the sound of us setting up camp, minutes after my partner had discharged his rifle- so loud noises at distance don't seem to alarm them much. Alert them, yes.

The reflexive hind-leg kick is good too! It was only the knowledge of this reflexive action that kept me from poking a cow in the butt with my rifle barrel once, after I had spotted her standing 40 yards off with her head buried in a bush. I had to get within 7 or 8 yards to see what sex she was - and since she was that close, and still apparently sound asleep (or "hiding"?) - I figured what the heck....

I backed off at 5 feet and left her doing her thing, whatever it was. Still makes me grin.

I always tell my clients to put the first shot right behind the front shoulder and when they lock up and stand there to put the next shot through the center of the neck.

I am always suspect of any moose that immediately falls over as i can virtually guarantee that the hit it too high in the hump and that it will quickly regain it's feet and be gone unless hit again in a vital area.

I disagree with advocates of hump and Texas heart shots.

The only moose I ever lost was shot in the hump. If you do not get to them immediately and put in a finisher, they can get up and leave. All you have done is knock them off their feet and caused a wound that will kill them slowly and painfully from infection.

And as far as shooting a moose in the rear just so you can later put in a finishing shot, that's just bad manners. Nobody who isn't starving needs to shoot a moose that badly. Heart/Lung shots or CNS shots for me please.

still trying to figure out how you accomplished that , but hey it worked that time !

Great feedback guys, appreciate you all.

I got one that way once, using a 250 gr .338 mag slug. He was running flat out at 150 yards, straight away.

When he hooked to the left I got him quartering away, high through the shoulder blade nearside, and out the base of the neck farside, pulverizing about 6 inches of spine in between.Tthe spine takes a dip right there, but I was actually trying for a little lower and farther back, for both lungs. His momentum took him another 20 feet or so, out into 16 inches of water and muck lakeside, which was what I was trying to prevent (there wasn't that much thought process in that split second, when he hooked the "wrong" way from what I was expecting - I should have waited until he was on dry ground on the far side of that little neck connecting the two larger lakes).

I put an insurance round into the back of his head ( well placed I thought) from several yards away after walking up on him, placed the rifle against a birch sapling well back from the bank, and went out into the lake to get him out of there (It was a yearling forkhorn). When I grabbed his antler to start turning him around back toward the bank, he blinked at me.

Oh yes, I remember that bull quite well!

I tend to agree on the THS - never tried it myself, but some here have, and seem willing to use it again. As Quigley said - "never had much use for it - didn't say I couldn't". Or wouldn't, under the right circumstances.

The spine is quite large in the hump area, and the vertebrae boney processes above are larger there than elsewhere. If the bullet hits any of those, the moose will go down right there, and it makes for a fairly large knock-down area- assuming you are not a bit too high and slip the bullet between two of those boney spurs.... Even a very near miss to the spine will drop them, but as you say, there is some danger that it will only temporarily stun them. Either way, they are likely to stay down long enough to approach more closely, assuming the bullet went where it was needed, and at not too great a distance. Note I said "likely" , referring to the "near miss".

On any CNS shot (or other) the thing to do is rechamber immediately, put the safty on, and approach (if possible) with a clear field of fire, keeping your eyes on the critter at all times. Better yet, if someone is with you, one of you approaches the animal out of the line of fire, while the partner stands ready to shoot should the animal stand up again.

Moose don't necessarily die from gunshot wounds. A friend shot one in the neck once, it didn't even go all the way down, and bolted. They tracked it until they lost the trail. The next year he shot a look-alike several hundred yards away, and found his last-year's slug in the neck muscle when he butchered it out at home.

Another friend once showed me pictures and antlers of a moose he'd killed a few days before when it came in snorting and blowing snot to his calling up Wasilla way. One antler was deformed, and nearly all the ribs on one side had been broken - some in several places- and rehealed. The lung on that side was misshapen and grown into the rib cage, but apparently was at least once more still partially functional.

Even those big heavy multi-ton projectiles (locomotives) aren't sure killers, apparently.

I also once shot a yearling bull, broadside and running, at 35yards with a 12 ga. slug, trying for his spine behind the shoulder, since he was crossing the trail back to the boat at the time. It missed the spine low by less than a quarter inch, but neatly centered the big artery that runs back to the hind end, leaving about an eighth-inch of arterial wall on each side of the hole. Hit no bone, the slug never expanded much, and exited. He never even flinched, much less went down, ran about 100 yards, staggered, and fell over in mid-step, all bled out. A case of a near CNS hit not paralyzing the animal. I always wondered if a high-powered rifle bullet with its greater velocity would have produced a knock-down on that one.

My own rule of thumb is to take the first certainly lethal shot I can make with good recovery prospects. If offered a choice of placement under somewhat problematic recovery conditions, I'll take the one most certain of quickest recovery. If recovery prospects are certain, I want a good bleed out for best meat quality- double lungs or heart work nicely, as I stated before. I haven't seen that much difference in time to fall over between heart and double-lung placement- both depend on the same amount of blood loss, and dropping pressure.

It's a sliding scale.... Other's MMV.

yep good info here,


lung shot will kill them, not necessarily where he was standing though.


hump shot knocks them down reliably, but you better not lose line of sight as you approach for the coup de grace.


CNS all day every day, but pretty small CNS targets compared to that big body. Just cause you put in the right zip code doesn't mean you got the right street.

I've done all of the shots, depending upon circumstances, and the hump shot I had to try after an Indian told me it was reliable.

odds are I'll take the lung shot, but I sure like what happens when you hit the neck.

though Verns experience with finding not 1 but 2 TSX bullets recovered in neck muscle leaves me a bit surprised. Tis food for thought. Vern is a straight shooter, and has kilt a moose or three

I just shoot the damm things, bow or rifle, they die pretty easily. Have shot them in the shoulder, behind the shoulder, in the neck, in the head, all shots have killed em. Moose are about as dumb as it gets, and with that goes the fact that they dont often even know they are dead for a minute or so after being shot. I wouldn't sweat where to shoot a moose, just make sure its a vital or roll the dice on a CNS and remember that with either a follow up shot might be needed, they dont move that fast.

AkCub:

They don't move that fast- wrong.

They hide real well too.

Dumb? Wrong.

Don't' sweat where you shoot them? Well, ok-as long as it IS in an effective location - heart, lungs, CNS (which I don't agree is a "roll of the dice" used skillfully and with discretion).

Drinking tonight, or just feeling ornery?

Nah just dont get much wood for hunting moose anymore las. They are just too easy to kill, and too much damm work afterwards. You can view it differently than I thats okay by me, its just that my recollections of quite a few moose dieing by my hand and others , none were even remotely challenging to kill, of course with the exception of a few shot in the water, but they werent hard to kill, just kilt in a god awful place...grin

Of course where I hunt em may be different than where you hunt em, I've just not seen even the remotest challenge in killing a moose, just got to find em is all.

I agree. C'mon down here hunting - you probably won't have to do much work.. not that there aren't moose out there.

Killing them isn't the challenge. Getting them to that point can be, and I've run the gamut from a sure bet on a 2-weekend hunt 20 years ago to the present, with 100 times the cover, 30% of the moose, and a kill every several years. I've hunted the same two or three areas all this time, so it's not like I'm a virgin out there.

But they ain't dumb. Some may be unsophisticated, but they ain't dumb, and the fewer they get, the smarter they get. Or maybe it's just harder to find an unsophisticated one.. Or I could be losing brain cells... or maybe- probably- I just wasn't as smart as I once thought I was...

Alaskacub, I have to put in a plug for moose "intelligence"!
I rate hard hunted moose in thick cover as the most challenging of all the game that we have available locally in central Saskatchewan. Alaska wilderness moose are likely somewhat different based on more open subalpine terrain and lack of "education". Consider hunting moose outside of the rut for a moment. From my limited experience in the Yukon ( I'm assuming it's similar to Alaska) , it is not unusual in mountainous terrain to spot a moose from a distance and stalk into range. Not so here. Tracking a moose through thick bush and shooting it in it's bed has become a lifelong quest, and I have not satisfactorily pulled it off yet, but I have done that several times with supposedly more wary bull elk and buck whitetails. I'd say that moose do not trust their eyesight as much as many critters, but hearing and smell are second to none. Most of the several moose I have shot under late season tracking conditions were killed as a result of good luck and good shooting reflexes, not because of stupid moose or my "superior" tracking skills.
I realize lumping all moose hunting together was not your intent, but I thought it proper to give another viewpoint.
They do seem to gain weight once you pull the trigger......

That doesn't sound like some of the moose I've hunted. O' course, perhaps I am just so darned dumb....or is it unlucky? (But 700 miles of riding -one snowmachine- over four weekends to finally connect? Hmm?) But yes, some of them are purely gifts.

Or try hunting them before the rut. What bulls? (There sure can be a lot of cows then though!)



You might want to qualify "that" as they certainly can and do move when they want to - and a lot faster than a bolt gun can be cycled. Being big means the target is bigger - not to be confused as "all target".

And THS attempts seem naively foolish, at least on the winter moose I've taken. I suppose there is a point where one has enough gun and bullet to do it, but I have had enough bullets stopped by that 100-pound + paunch, even from decent rifles and bullets - like Xs in the 340 Roy- to think that one could be assured of driving a bullet through that "ballistic woodbag" and wreaking lethal damage upon the cardiovascular goodies.

Don't tell me they can't be fast. I once walked around a spruce tree into the open end of a 3-sided deadfall pocket. 30 feet away, an estimated 5 or 6 year old bull jumped to his feet, pivoted, and leaped (flat-footed, as it were) over the roughly 7 foot high, multi-tree deadfall behind him before I got the gun half raised.

I gave him only an 8.5, because he touched it with a hind foot going over...

That is the most impressive thing I've ever seen a moose do, physically.

Well it seems the moose I have killed must have just been the ones that rode the short bus to moose school as calfs, cuz I havent found near the problems killing moose that many of you state. To date, I and my pards have never gone moose hunting and not killed a moose, 2 over 70, 60+'s, mid 50's, mid 40's, barely palmers and spikes, none have given me much trouble or challenge when we speak of killing. I will admit to being party to more than one grueling extraction from the backcountry but like I have said.....they aint hard to kill by any stretch of the imagination. I have killed them in low lands, bogs, alpine regions, residential areas and even in my own back yard. If a guy can shoot, regardless of the tool in hand( bow or rifle), I still say they are one of the easiest critters to kill given their size, and have never seen one go even 100 yards after being shot, usually less than 50.


Oh....and I personally have never taken one via a THS, or a gut shot, so I cant comment on how that works out.

You are a lucky man.

I've had well-shot moose go up to 150 yards - disappearing after the first jump or two. That gives one a 300 yard diameter area to search as the bastids are tricky about changing direction. Not easy when one is unlikely to spot a downed moose more than two or three yards away. Hence my preference for CNS shots, if available.

As I said - I agree they are easy to kill with proper shot placement. Usually. They just may not be easy to get to that killing point, in less than abundant, remote, perhaps guided, optimal areas/conditions. The finding afterward can be the tough part.

I'll take an "easy" moose any time I can get it... not that there is any such thing, except relatively..

No disrespect intended, but my feeling is that you have not had it difficult enough to develop the respect that these magnificent animals really deserve. I was in hog-heaven thru the 80's, into the mid-90's down here in the Swanson River Burn of '69 - and didn't really appreciate how good I had it at the time.

Again- no diss - just a difference of opinion based on our comparative experiences.

A moose is as worthy of as much respect as any white-tail or wapiti ever born.

Speaking of what a moose can do when he sets his mind to it, I once saw a moose clear an 8' chain link fence. As I recall, I think his hind legs hit the fence but he did clear it. Think that's the most amazing thing I've ever seen an animal do. And "yes", I've had 'em cover quite a bit of ground after being hit with a good shot.
Bear in Fairbanks

I once watched a cow clear - no touching - a 5' high chain link fence from a standing start directly in front of it. The cow then went to the gate and with a few urrr, urrr, the calf-of-the-year came over and walked through the kid-gate. I suspect the cow had tried to negotiate the gate previously and found it wasn't possible!

las - that was at Soldotna El.

You are the first guide (that I have talked to or corresponded with) in Alaska that has said the center hump shot is not a good anchor shot. I once grazed a hump at way to far for a pistol with open sights and had the SOB fall and get back up and then fell again, to late the second time as I was on him, This time from 20 feet away.

I can almost always see the hump clear of the brush for a clear shot. I can't always say that about other parts of the animal.

You cut the spinal cord and no more messages can go to the legs.

Shoot the center of the hump, and no more messages to all four legs.

This might help.

http://www.mooseheaven.com/best-kill-shot-for-moose.htm

Here's another one I found.

That is a neat skeleton, but the back is WAY too arched.

I trained them that way.

That must have been either the "slow" cow, or the impatient one. Most of them (or they mostly) use the kid-gates. Usually we have to do no more than walk out of the building before recess, if they are in the yard, and the cow will start heading for the nearest kid gate. They know exactly where every one of the gates are.

On occasion, I have been really glad for those soccer backstops! Or the Principal holding the door open for me.

"Some assembly required" for the youngster mooses..

That's not exactly what Phil said. He said that he can practically guarantee it is too high if the moose falls over immediatly. This has not been my experience with my CNS shots, but then I have actually hit the spine - this is apparently not his experience with his guided hunters.. and he has without doubt seen far more moose shot than I have taken.

An actual "center hump shot" as you refer too, will spine the critter, and he will go down right there, and stay down (at least on the hind end), unless, as I earlier indicated, the bullet just missed the spine high and also slipped between two of the boney spurs above.

I should add that if you cannot maintain line of sight on approaching the animal, or do not have a partner that can cover the approach, your best bet is to stand there ready to shoot, and observe for 10 to 15 minutes to make sure the animal is down for keeps. Even then, it's not a sure bet, but likely your best course of action.

In heavy brush and quite close range, it might be better to immediately rush forward (safely!) before the shock can wear off. Just depends...

Actually, what Phil said is what I've always heard from just about anyone worth their salt in the world of guiding those who haven't done the job before. The hump, besides being a spot that is neither large in terms of lethal area, nor a certain lethal or even crippling shot, is also guaranteed to be challenging for a bullet. It is one of the most compact parts of the animal in terms of muscle, connective tissues and bone. It will seriously challenge - and often stop- many good bullets. Breaking the long bone or joints in both front legs will put the animal down right there. Missing will still be lethal in that spot (assuming the bullet is placed high enough so that a miss passes through the body).

Having never actually humped a moose, I'll take you guys' word for it, and stick with what's worked for me.

Humped a Dall ram at @ 330 yards once, but that's another story. The second round, 5 inches lower and 2 inches back took him off his propped up front legs.... I found him a quarter mile away and 1500 feet lower. He was dead, virtually, at the second shot. But Gravity Sucks.

A couple guys, a year later , who had started to stalk him, told me (without knowing I was the shooter) about watching him tumble down the slope, at times 15 or more feet in the air...

Depends, I have had some fall down 1, 2, 3 dead. Shot to the head, shot to the neck.

Las: I've had dead deer and elk do several hundered yards sliding downhill in Hells Canyon. Deer were fine as camp was downhill. The elk, no, as camp was higher.

On moose...Yes, the lungs are the largest target and a sure kill. I'd personally not administer follow ups for fear of getting them in gear. If water is around, and I'm typically alone and can't lift them from the pond, taking out a portion of spine slam dunks them instantly. In that instance, some follow up may be needed for the kill.

In the morning a lung shot is prefered as you have all day to deal with it. In the evening a shoulder shot will anchor them most of the time. I shot moose for 10+ yrs with a 7mag and rarely did I get one shot knock down, switched to a 35Whelen and one shot knock downs became expected as any good medium will do 33 ,35,36 and 37 calibers. Moose do not always stand perpendicular to the shooter so its nice to have enough momentum to get through the paunch to the vitals so he doesn't move away, a medium with bullets between 225gr and 300grs will do that @ => 2500fps. I consider the sub 30 calibers for local experts who can wait for the right moose and the right shot, that's why the 270Win shines in the right hands!

Structural, Plumbing and Electrical elevation view of Bullwinkle......

when i lived in alaska i shot all my moose with a 270 win using either corelokts or partitions. always waited for a broadside shot thru both lungs. none went farther that 30-40 yards. as previously mentioned, they'll just fall down unless frightened.

Head shot.

Your question reminds me of my nephew when he was about twelve years old. Some one in the family ask,
"Where'd ya aim?"
"At the moose," he answered with a quisical look. Maybe he wanted to ask, "Where else?"

Couldn't have stated it better myself. I love the CNS on moose -but I ain't fanatical about it...