Just scored a 1975 M77 Ruger in 250 Savage on gunbroker that was delivered today. Rifle is in amazing shape without a mark or ding on it anywhere. I don’t think it’s ever been fired. What powders and loads work best? Want to run 100-117 gr bullets and have Big Game, CFE 223, H 4350 and IMR 4451 presently on hand.

Thanks
Robert

Not MD, but curious to know the rifling twist in these??

Reportedly 10 twist.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/2/4/the-little-savage-250-3000/

DF

Ruger 77s in 250-3000 have a 1-10" ROT.

The only factory built 250-3000s made in the past 50 years without a 1-10" ROT that I'm aware of were the 1986/87 Winchester/USRA 70 Lightweight Carbines that had, for no known reason, a 1-14" ROT.

250 Savage case is basically a new Koolaid Creedmoor case i would think same powders would work and do the same thing in both cases. i know that`s how i check out new and old reloading manuals for powder amount and kind to use. good luck,Pete53

The old standard seemed to be 4895, but I didn't have any when I got my .250 barrel, so I used Big Game. Results are just fine. I never measured the groups, but it was sub-moa with 100 grain Hornady flat base.

Of those listed Big game would be the first.

I have used good old IMR-3031 mostly as well as some IMR-4064 with all bullet weights.

For deer and just general hunting critters i use the 87-90 grain bullets.

Congratulations on the find. That would be a lovely rifle.

I have a Ruger tang safety Ultralight with a 10" twist. I've only ever run 100gn bullets, mainly the 100gn Hornady SP. I tried H4895, Varget and H4350. H4350 gave the best velocity (even with the 20inch barrel) with really good accuracy so that's the only powder I have used in the past 20 years.

Those 100 gr Honady’s are scarcer than hens teeth, must be a bunch of them squirreled away by a few. I unfortunately don’t have any.

CRJ1960,

Have had a few 1-10 twist .250s, including one of the tang-safety Ruger 77s Ultra Lights with the skinny 20-inch barrel. In that particular rifle 100-grain bullets shot best with 35.0 grains of Accurate 2495, which is their version of a 4895. Never got that rifle to shoot very well with 115-120 grain bullets, despite the twist--perhaps because of the slim barrel. Had a Savage 99A, the later tang-safety model with a 20-inch 1-10 twist barrel, that shot 100-grain Speer Hot-Cors well with 33.0 grains of IMR4895.

I also had one of the 1-14 twist Winchester Model 70 Lightweight Carbines that 260Rem mentions that shot just about any 100-grain spitzer well with either 41.0 grains of H4350 or 36.0 grains of Big Game--the bullets including the Hornady Interlock Spire Point, Nosler Partition and Speer Hot-Cor. (The Interlock, an excellent bullet, is now discontinued.)

Other 1-10 .250s did shoot OK with 115-120 grain bullets. A Remington 700 Classic did well with 115-grain Nosler Partitions and 42.0 H4831, and a custom .250 on a Remington 700 action with a 1-10 Hart barrel liked 43.0 H4831SC with the 115 Partition--but it shot best with lighter bullets from 75-100 grains with Reloder 15.

My last .250 was a Savage Axis, with a Shaw pre-chambered and threaded 1-10 twist, 22" barrel I installed myself, and it might have been the most all-around accurate .250 I've ever owned. Here are its best loads, all of which grouped three shots at 100 yards into an inch or less:

85-grain Ballistic Tip/36.5 grains CFE223/3098 fps
100 Speer Hot-Cor/ 35.0 IMR4895/3038 fps
100 Barnes TTSX/ 35.0 Reloder 15/2963 fps
117 Sierra GameKing/37.0 IMR4451/2745 fps

IMR4451 is very close to H4350 in burn-rate, how close depending on the specific lot ow powder. With my present lots 4451 requires perhaps a half-grain more powder to match velocities with H4350 in cases that size.

Thanks John!

My 1 in 10 250 Savage rifles both shoot best for me with Nosler book max 100gr partition H4895. Groups tightened up at book max. It's nice to be able to see the deer drop in the scope. For my 1in14 250 I load 87gr Speer hc. With R15 in my 99f.

Have any of you ever tried RL-17? My .250 shoots it good with pretty good MV and MOA accuracy or better if I'm doing my bit.
But my rifle is different than any listed here. It's got a 26 inch Krieger barrel on a Howa 1500 action with a 1:9 twist and I shoot mainly 115 Ballistic Tips. I'm thinking of trying 110 Accubonds and maybe a 115 grain Partitions. Once I get a load that shoots good and kills I'm not too much of an experimenter. I need to broaden my horizons. I had this rifle purpose built for me because I don't walk around and I sit in a ground blind. With a 26 inch heavy sporter barrel it's a little on the heavy side. Anyway, that's what I do if it helps. But what the hell, I'm weird.
'

I have a Axis rifle with an E.R. Shaw barrel from Midway like Mule Deer's only my barrel is 24" long. Following Mule Deer's recommendation, I have had good results using H4350 with 100 grain bullets. 39.5 grains gives me over 3,000 fps. Pretty much any medium burn rate powders work well with lighter bullets, but I like Leverevolution with 87 and 90 grain bullets in my Savage 99 250-3000 rifle with 22" barrel. 37.5 grains gives me over 3,000 fps with low pressure and very good accuracy. CFE223 is very similar to Leverevolution,and I have used that as well.

Getting back to the bolt action rifles, I plan on trying the new StaBALL 6.5 in the 250 Savage Axis rifle. The burn rate is a bit slower than the 4350s, and it is a compact ball powder. I am getting very good results in my 7mm-08 rifle using it. It should be just the thing with heavier bullets in the 250 Savage.

tag

Wow, just found 4 boxes of 25 cal Hornady 100 gr spire points on GB for 20 bucks a box. They’re coming out of California and were cheap due to the lead ban.

I am down to my last 600.

No love for IMR 4320??

I have 11 or 12 boxes.

I was wondering that too. 4320 is what my Dad used 40 years ago and I still do

Keep it coming guys, dies should be here today. Mounted the rings on the rifle yesterday, they were still wrapped in paper in the cloth sack. No marks on the muzzle tip or on the bolt face, sure appears unfired. The barrel sure isn’t free floated, should I shoot it first or go ahead and free float the barrel before starting load development?

I've used IMR 4064, IMR 3031 and H380 all with good results out of my Savage 99s. One of those 99s has a custom Krieger barrel 1-10" for bullets up to 117g but likes the 100g Hot Cores, Partitions and TSX better.

If it were mine, I'd shoot it first, then maybe use JB's trick with the business card or bread bag closure to achieve a temporary float. If it shoots well floated, it makes life easier in some ways. Full-length bedding is another option, as practiced by Melvin and Barrett.

Whatever works.

I would go straight to the CFE-223. I get great accuracy with it in my two rifles- a Savage M1899 Model .250-3000 takedown and Ruger #1A with Douglas custom barrel, with the added benefit of its copper eliminating properties. Good stuff.

The 250 is an "easy" cartridge. With 100 grain bullets, which IMO are what a 10 twist 250 should be shooting, a wide variety of powders will shine. 3031 class powders on the quicker end, 4350 class on the slower, and most in between.

Well, the twist and use of heavies may change that a bit. Example, an 8 twist Creed with heavies preforms well with RL-26 and slower burners.

Slower twist, lighter bullets, not so much. Older rounds generally have slower twists, are limited to lighter bullets. So, IMO, twist separates 250 from Creed more than case, etc, maybe not as much difference with similar weight bullets.

DF

Lots of good choices already. I would skip R-17 and go for R-16 if enough will fit in the case, better temp. stability and de-coppering agents. I would also take a look at Stay Ball 6.5 even though I hate that name choice, SB 6.5 has all the required features and good density too so you shouldn't run out of room in the Savage. R-26 is worth a try for the heavies and if you are not going to shoot in really hot weather. Just shot some 243s at 90 degrees and no problems but had fits with the 6.5x55 at 100 degrees.

H4895 has done well for me with bullets from 100grs and south.

The only thing I shoot over 100 is a 117gr RN and that gets H4831.

Good score on that Ruger. I recently picked up a Ruger 77 Ultra Light 250-3000 and loaded it with the same powder and bullet that I use in my Savage 99-A. H4895 and 87 grain HotCor. 100 yard 5-shot groups are less than an inch.

Mule Deer's post that he got the best all around performance with a Savage Axis with a Shaw barrel did not go unnoticed by me.

I have tried many of the loads/powders mentioned here with good luck in my .250s but also use 38-39 grains of WW760 with 100 grain bullets - no speed demon (around 2800-2850) but typically shoots good in several.250 savages that I use and it has killed a truckload of deer.

PennDog

roundoak,

Should also mention that the cases used were new Hornady, which I found to be the most consistently dimensioned .250 brass I've ever used, even better than necking up good .22-250 cases. That probably made a difference as well.

Mule Deer, Good to know about the Hornady cases. Have found the most accurate factory ammo in my Savage 99-A has been the Hornady CUSTOM 250 Savage 100 gr. Interlock. Have not tried in my recent Ruger M77 Ultra Light yet.

I have a rebarreled 700 Rem. in 250 Sav. I shoot 40 gr. H414 with just about any 100 gr. bullet. It is super acurrate and chrono'ed 3050 fps. It puts pronghorns down in their tracks, DRT;. In my opinion the 250 is a way under rated cartridge.

With all the different combo`s mentioned, goes to show how easy the .250 is to load for and get excellent results...tho not mentioned, don`t forget 4320..one of my favorites.

I also have one of those Shaw barrels except mine is mounted on a Savage M-10. A max charge of IMR 4166 with the 100 gr Hornady soft points is very accurate in that gun. So is a max charge of H 414 under a 117 gr Hornady round nose. A Sierra 117 gr HP with a max charge of 4166 shoots to the same place as the Hornady RN at 100 yards. The 100 gr Hornady and Sierra loads are from the magazine like 2019 Hodgdon load manual while the 117 gr RN came from the Hornady 10th Edition manual.

I've been trying CFE 223 with the 100 gr Hornady bullet in a Bubba'd Model 99 with no luck. I've even gone over book max a little bit trying to get the velocity up as that seems to be tightening the "patterns" somewhat. That gun shoots 100 gr Remington loads great but nothing else so far.

I've found 99's to vary more than bolt actions. Don't know how many 99s in .250 I've owned, but would guess at least half a dozen, ranging from older take-downs to two of the post-mil tang-safety models--only one of which shot well.

The biggest mystery was a take-down with a tang sight. Have generally had good luck getting take-down 99s to shoot, but this one would NOT consistently group either the 100-grain Hornady Spire Point or Speer Hot-Cor under 3-4 inches--and I'm pretty good with an aperture sight.

Finally measured the twist, and it was around 1-15, not the standard 1-14. This was no doubt due to the adjustable sine-bar rifling machines Savage used back then. Switched to the 87-grain Speer Hot-Cor (which I have heard was originally designed for 1-14 twist .250s), and the groups shrank to under two inches.

I recall you writing that about the old rifling machines and have used that information a time or two to overwhelm someone on my "knowledge". Thankfully they somehow knew less than me so I was the victor in that discussion.

The Speer is my next attempt. I really wanted the Hornady bullet to work as the Remington factory load works so well but it's off to the drawing board. The Hornady do work pretty well in the 25/35 and well enough in the 25 Remington so all is not lost.

I like that Speer 87 Hot Cor a lot. So much that I laid in 1000 of them which should hold me for a week or three. It is the best most consistent performer in my 1918 vintage Savage takedown- 35gr.cfe223 pushes it at exactly 3000fps, with MOA+ accuracy when the stars are in alignnent at high tide, 2 weeks either side of the summer solstice. (The gun is minty with a bore likewise, and a 1-14 twist on the money.) 3000fps suits me just fine- it gives the performance that God and Savage intended 105 years ago.

The custom Ruger #1 .250 slops that load into consistent sub-moa too so I don't see a need to mess with it.

I doubt any deer will notice that I hit them with a bullet being a mere 13 grains lighter than 100 grains.

I have a Remington 700 Classic which favors H414 and 100gr NPT and a Ruger #1 which likes H380 with 100gr Sierra bullets.

I bought a 2003 Sav Vbss 22-250 in 2017.
I put a Lilja 250 Sav barrel, Boyds stock, Timney trigger, Glade bolt handle, homemade bolt knob, and homemade 20 degree Vblock on it.

It shot a 1" 3 shot group at 200 yards sighting it in.
100 gr Nos Bal Tip 39 gr CFE223, 2.550" OAL
62.5 kpsi 3154 fps Quickload
3115 fps chrono
3197 fps chrono
3253 fps chrono

I have three 250 Sav’s and a 250 SAV AI; as to the 250 Sav, I currently load for two on 700 actions with 10-twist barrels (Douglas & Shilen). These are hunting rifles with bedded composite stocks, OEM triggers, Bushnell 3200’s in DNZ mounts, and mostly used by youngsters in my tribe over the last ten years to punch a little paper and shoot whitetails when they want to go; my rifles are not benchrest long-range super rifles AND I’m certainly not the best shot by any stretch, especially as I’m 69 and holding. The point of all my drivel is that this is probably the easiest caliber I’ve ever loaded and the least ‘picky’ when it comes to powders.

I’ve had no trouble finding great 100-grain bullet loads with Win ball powders such as 760 & 748, plus IMR & Hodgdon 3031, 4064, 4320, 4350, 4895 and Hodgdon’s 380 & 414. While Alliant’s Reloder 15 & 17 look best on paper I haven’t gotten around to trying them in the 250. I know that doesn’t address your specific requests for data relating to powders Big Game, CFE 223, H 4350 and IMR 4451 but based on all that I’ve read on those powders relative to the 250, I think your best bet would be CFE223 followed by the 4451. If you’re looking to buy the best powders IMHO, get 4895 for 100 grain bullets and 4831 for anything heavier. All the published load data from both powder and bullet manufacturers is pathetically anemic, CYA loading for pressures in the 38,000-44,000 range - I guess because of the older rifles out there. Having a modern action you should be able ‘push the envelope’ somewhat, of coarse checking your spent brass and other indicators for signs of excess pressure.

I don’t mind sharing MY load data but with the caveat that - should you choose to use it - you should begin at least 10% lower charges to start. I use CCI BR2 primers for all my 250 loads and my throats are cut so that for most bullets, with my usual seating of about 15 thousandths off the lands, my cartridge OAL is around 2.7”-2.8”. I’ve chronographed all my load velocities since 2007 with a Chrony F-1, until 2012 when I switched to Magnetospeed. These are my GO TO loads:

1) Nosler BTip 100’s, 35.2 grains H4895, Rem brass, OAL 2.780”, 2839-2853 fps, groups less than 1/2-in on both. Similar results with Sierra ProHunter 100’s & Nosler Partition 100’s.

2) By far the best powder to push heavier bullets is H4831 especially Short Cut: Nosler Partition & Speer Soft Point Boat Tail 120’s typically produce 2700-2750 fps for me with around 41 grains in Winchester brass; however, my best heavy load is with Nosler BTip 115’s with 41.4 grains in Winchester brass and OAL 2.776”. Looking at my load history, I’ve gotten 2794-2811 fps & 1/2”-3/4” groups on both rifles.

Hope this old man’s rambling diatribe is helpful, or at least encouraging, with regards to what's become my favorite cartridge.

Have to comment once more:

Apparently the general experience is the .250 is easy to handload, but powders in the 4895 burn-rate range tend to work better with bullets up to around 100 grains, though slower-burning powders (say up to the 4350 range can also work with 100s, and often better with heavier bullets.

Anybody's experience vastly different?

Sounds right to me. I'm thinking about trying some 4451 in mine under 100 grain Ballistic Tips. (700 Classic, no worries about getting up to proper operating pressure.)

ClarkM, that's pretty impressive.

I would use CFE223 for the 100grain and 4350 for 117s
Remember that the loads given for most 250 loads only run a 45,000 cup for the old savage 99s with judicious loading this can be increased quite a bit. Remember that it's the same case as the 22/250 and the credemore some the case and the rifle can be loaded up to 52,000 cup with careful loading.
ALWAYS USE CAUTION WHEN LOADING AND WATCHOUT FOR ANY SIGNS OF PRESSURE

Have several of the 99,s in 250 Savage chambers are large and cases stretch a lot so have to segregate brass and keep loads mild.

The largest chamber was in a post million 99 A in 250 Savage.

Measured my rifling in all of them and they varried from 1 in 13.5 to 1 in 14.5 .

Powder,s tried RL 15, RS BG, AA 2520, WW 760 and others the one in 13.5 twist shoots most 100 gr well.

I find these useful to get a start on a new caliber. Just copy and paste the web address.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/250-3000-Savage-COMPLETE-Reloading-Manual-LOADBOOKS-USA-250-3000-Sav-NEW/302307740402?hash=item4662f20af2:g:4kQAAOSwxu5ZDe4p

I have been loading for it for 20 years or so. Best luck with R15 and 100 Partitions. Also find Varget to work pretty well. R15 is magic though.
Only other bullet i shoot is 87 grain Hornady spire point. Great javelina bullet