can anyone direct me to any articles about these two on the campfire, or offer an opinion?
Thanks

24hourcampfire custom google search: Enter keywords magnetospeed labradar into the google search field.

Couple of threads it yielded:

Entering the 21st century Labradar or Magnetospeed

Magneto speed vs lab radar

I want what ever Mule Deer prefers. He has made me lazy, instead of doing my own research I just see what he says about it. Shame on me.....Who ever said you save money loading your own ammo is full of baloney. I ain't saved a dime and and have a sizable amount invested in presses and accessories and a middle of the road Pact chronograph.

Let us know what you decide and why please as I am interested in which would be best for me. But, I honestly don't think the moose I shoot at well under 200 yards appreciate all the time, effort and money we put into it.

1Akshooter,

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

I have owned both the LabRadar and Magnetspeed, and eventually sold the LabRadar. This may seem startling to LabRadar fans, but there's why:

When I head to the range it's for work, not play. Generally I'm taking at least a couple rifles, and have taken up to six, and often a handgun or two. I loved the LabRadar during its first 7-8 range sessions, but eventually came up against its limitations. It's listed as not reading bullets below .22 caliber consistently, because it reads by bouncing waves off the base of the bullet. I originally thought that might be OK, because while I do sometimes chronograph .17 and .20 caliber bullets, it's not all that often.

But eventually I also discovered it wouldn't read a particular high-BC 6mm bullet, apparently because the rear end of the extended boattail is too small. This was during a range trip during the last stages of putting together an article, and I needed that data. Luckily I also had a simple but reliable light-screen chronograph in the pickup, so switched to it.

The settings on the LR also need to be changed for shooting handguns. I'm often shooting both handguns and rifles during the same range session, which makes the LR more of a hassle. Plus, it won't read velocities above 3900 fps, and while I don't chronograph a lot of super-zappy loads, when I do it's again often during article research, so I need (not just want) the data.

The Magnetospeed reads everything, but the problem I initially had with it (again) was time. Mounting it on the barrel often changes point of impact and accuracy, so I had to spend more time and money reshooting the same load with the Magnetospeed bayonet off the barrel. I also had to be constantly switching it from one barrel to another. Eventually I solved both problems by modifying a Caldwell Rock front rifle rest to hold the bayonet, which works very well.

However, all of that applies to me as a gun writer. Many shooters don't test such a wide variety of firearms and cartridges--or as many at one time. For them the LabRadar can be a definite convenience, and using a Magnetospeed on the barrel is no big deal.

If the LabRadar folks ever overcome its limitations on bullet size and velocity, I would probably buy another. But for now am pretty happy with the Rock-mounted Magnetospeed.

Thank you for the clear expression of your experience, John. I hadn't understood the limitations of the Labradar, and had been planning on getting one. I'll hold off, and look elsewhere, since it looks like it won't fit a significant number of my needs.

I believe the majority of shooters will find the Pro Chrono will suit all their needs.

Not exactly, but close. The only significant defect of the ProChrono is that it has to be set up 10-15 feet in front of the bench, which can be hassle at public ranges, especially on weekends when many people shoot. Which is why the Magnetospeed and LabRadar have become so popular:

But if that's not a problem, a ProChrono sure works--which is why one is always in my range equipment, whether to use as a primary or backup.

I have owned a ProChrono for over 30 years. It works fine, but as John says, at a busy range it is a pain. the LabRadar might be a problem at a busy range, too. I think my next chronograph will be a Magnetospeed (the one you attach to your barrel).

Set up for most chronographs at the range takes a few minutes - the Magnetospeed being the exception in this thread.

The overwhelming majority of users simply want to know how fast their bullets are traveling. I suppose it all depends on whether or not you use a busy public range, or have a quiet place to test.

Which 6mm bullet did your Labradar struggle with?

That's what I have now, and I like it a lot. It seems pretty reliable, and has done well with everything I've shot across it. I worry at times that the readings are not accurate, but I may just be worrying over nothing.

I don't shoot at public ranges anymore, and one of the reasons is the chronograph use. Another reason was all the accidents and injuries. Nothing like showing up at the range and seeing a big splotch of blood next to one of the benches. Every time I went. I took my oldest brother to a range for his first time, and he was hit by a steel-core ricochet in the scalp, which split it pretty good. He bled like a stuck pig. That was the last time I went to a range.

Wow, that's not good! I hope he recovered.

The Pro Chrono has been discussed here before. It is reliable, affordable and accurate. While one can say that it is not as good as an Oehler, I doubt that most people need that level of accuracy or some of the features. I'll get into trouble for saying this, but for most, their money is better spent on a good scope, trigger or a stock rework.

Thank you for your well-wishes, Steve!

He recovered physically, but he was scarred by the experience (I was too). He hasn't been to a range since then, either. That was about a decade ago. He lives in an area that doesn't have any other options for shooting without a lot of travel. He's recently been convinced to join a private range, since he has a co-worker who belongs to one, and thus an "in". With all the unrest going on down here in the US, and particularly where he lives, he recently got a CC license, a handgun, and a PCC.

Thread hijack over.

"[The ProChrono}seems pretty reliable, and has done well with everything I've shot across it. I worry at times that the readings are not accurate, but I may just be worrying over nothing."

I have compared the results from two ProChronos directly to several other chronographs, by setting up the ProChrono at the same time so it will record the same shots. The first time I did this was with my Oehler 35P, during a range session that lasted around 4 hours, starting in early afternoon and ending when the sun was low in the sky. Light conditions obviously varied, but the PC held its own. The big difference is in distance between the light screens--the PC's are only a foot apart, and the Oehler's a minimum of two feet--which can be stretched considerably. The Oehler also has a third screen, providing a second check of the velocity reading--and prints a readout of every shot, on paper, if that's what you want, and is no doubt more accurate on each shot. But the average for each string from both chronographs was essentially the same.

I also checked that first PC against a second one, and they recorded the same velocities.

Did the same thing with my first Magnetospeed and the LabRadar, and given the difference between muzzle velocity (MS and LR) and the PC being at least 10 feet in front of the muzzle, the PC also recorded the same average velocity.

That said, the directions for the PC say to use the overhead filters on sunny days, but not use them on a cloudy days. I did check this out as well, and velocities will vary a little (not much) if you don't use the filters on sunny days.

Which 6mm bullet did your Labradar struggle with?

I sure would like to hear more about this Caldwell Rock modification you came up with and maybe a picture or two
Thanks!

Mule Deer,

" Eventually I solved both problems by modifying a Caldwell Rock front rifle rest to hold the bayonet, which works very well"

How about a Pic. of this setup, sounds interesting

charlee

Great thread...

I have a Oehler 35P and was “thinking” about going to the lab radar... I think I’ll wait.

Search for Magnetospeed and you'll find them in a thread within the last month.

I think I'll keep using my Oehler 33,or until they quit making "D" cell batteries!

kingston,

The 110-grain 6mm Hornady A-Tip.

#15014555

That is the thread# for the Magnetospeed mounts that MD and Dirtfarmer made. If someone smarter than I am can turn it into a link it is currently on page 4 of Ask the Gunwriters Under Magneto Speed Mounts?

You're welcome. Can't say as I blame your brother at all for staying away. Scares like that can affect you more than most people know or understand. I hope he joins that new club and works through everything.

Tejano,

Thanks. I just reposted the photo of my set-up here.

Well I own a chronograph that has not been mentioned here and can be found in abundance in E-bay for less than $100. It will be for sale at the next gun show cheap! I almost shot it today thinking that it would make me feel better.
My range is at the edge of my yard so I don't have to worry about other shooters. I have been thinking about "magnetospeed or labradar" also. I don't have to worry about the maximum velocity issue with Labradar, I rarely shoot anything faster than 3,500 fps. But I do shoot 20 and 17's. I too bring multiple rifles out to test when the weather allows it, but not often pistols and rifles.

I've had the ProChrono, Magnetospeed, and Labradar.

I gave the first two away.

Importantly, they all gave the same velocity ranges on the same loads. So, they're all apparently fairly accurate.

The Labbradar doesn't catch every round, especially with the smaller boat tail ones, but catches more than 50% for me. Sometimes just re-angling it works.

With the Labradar, you have to change settings between Archery, Handgun, and Rifle, which is not an issue for me. It takes a second or two to do. It takes a lot longer to reattach a Magnetospeed to a new barrel, and you have to play around with which type and number of pads keep it just the right distance from the muzzle, which is a bit of a PITA to me. Plus, the Magnetospeed changes the point of impact, which means you're wasting rounds because you can't chrono and sight-in with the same rounds. With the Labradar, you can do both at the same time. Much, much more convenient. The ProChrono was reliable, but you have to shoot through it 15 feet away, which makes it completely useless at 90% of ranges. For me, the LR is, by far, the best choice.

The LR occasionally, but rarely, picks up a round from the next lane, but that's easy to see as an error, and you just hit the trash-can button. It happened once during an 80 minute sessions a few days ago.

When I shot the 115gr UW loads out of my 10mm, they didn't register on the LR. I had to switch it to rifle mode, and then it worked.

I don't have anything smaller than 6.5mm, and the ease of use makes me like the Labradar more and more. It can be fiddly aiming, but setup right it works every time. Take the card out put it in the computer and I get an Excel spreadsheet with everything one might want to know. Much better than the ShootingChrony that I had before.

Marinehawk,

Apparently you've missed the posts, both from me and others, about how the Magnetospeed doesn't have to be attached to the barrel. And the cost of the solutions added to the MS still adds up to a lot less money spent than on a Labradar, especially when factoring in battery life or a rechargeable pack. A MS will run for a year or more on one battery.

My LabRadar "caught" ZERO 6mm A-Tips--while it was registering several other bullets. Tried tweaking the angle, and it still never caught any--while shooting up too many rounds that cost around $1 apiece--handloaded. Luckily had my $100 ProChrono along, so was able to obtain the data with it.

As I noted earlier, if the LabRadar folks ever solve those sorts of problems I'll but another. But even aside from the initial price, it cost me too much time and money.

No I read everything. Just giving my perspective. I haven't used it on rifle bullets smaller than 6.5mm. So, I didn't, and have, no comment on that. I didn't completely understand your setup with the front rest, but I'm sure it works well. I just have a 6"-9" bipod on mine when at the range and rest the rear in a bag that I move forward or rearward to get the correct elevation. I don't mind putting in six new AA batteries every range session or two. It's less $ than a single round of the ammo I shoot. Just my preference. I don't like having to set up the MS on different contour barrels, and it won't work at all on my DW Bruin or G40 or most of my handguns at all, unless I'm missing something. My brother has the PC and MS now.

Also, I often bring two different rifles to each range session. I don't often bring more, as the range is fairly close to home. I often will shoot one or two 3-shot groups through each rifle, and then switch to let that one cool down. I didn't like having to un-attach and reattach the MS each time I did that, including shifting the number or type of pads to make it just the right distance from the muzzle, and again, I assume from your front-rest version, it still changes the POI, because it's supposed to be near the bullet path. That was a deal breaker for me with the MS, you can either chrono or sight in, but never both at the same time. Lots of wasted rounds. If I was focusing on 6mm and smaller, I might want the MS.

No, my front-rest version of the MS does not change the POI. Neither has the set-up of anybody else I've talked to.

Why would it?

I generally bring 3-6 rifles to any range session.

You've obviously never seen pics of MD's setup, or Dirtfarmer's either which is similar. If you have you'd immediately understand that these setups in now way, fashion, or form impact POI. Also, changing the MS to another rifle with a different contour takes a whole 30 seconds maybe, and you don't have to dicker with the pads every time if it's set up right. I can count the missed readings from the MS over 3 years on one hand.

Labradar.

I'm completely ignorant of the setup in that respect.

The MS says something like that the bullet's outer diameter should be passing 1/4" to 1/8" of the MS surface. Is that the case with the new setup? If so, I'm just curious how it would change the POI less than being mounted to the barrel?

I don't bring more than two rifles because, without being able to predict, given the unpredictable amount of traffic, I might be timed out, and carrying two cased rifles, chrono, ammo, rests, etc. ... pretty much maxes me out.

When I've got my young reinforcements with me, sometimes that helps:

I have both Magneto Speed and Labradar. I use the Labradar almost exclusively, but if It doesn't read I switch to MS. I took an old Hoppes orange colored front rest and mounted the MS to it so I don't have to mount it to the barrel. I never have to go in front of the benches.

I currently have a Oehler M35 and LabRadar. I have not unlimbered the M35 since 2019. The LR is convenient to set up and I can shoot from prone while chronographing--something I often do because I have a piece of BLM ground within 10 minutes of my house.

My only complaint with the Labradar is it's a bit bitchy to set up/point. That and as john mentioned it doesnt work well ornate all with 22 caliber and smaller cartridges.

Getting the JKL recoil trigger transformed the reliability of my Labradar. I just need to concentrate on alignment to target and can place the unit anywhere convenient - really helps setup. The shooting lanes at my range are very tight. Also no more false readings from other lanes. I just mount the recoil trigger on a QD sling swivel and its real quick to transfer to other rifles.

I initially had trouble triggering my LR, and mistakenly thought it was not picking up the bullet. But the problem turned out I had it too far from the muzzle and not centered with the muzzle. Once I figured that part out aiming the the thing is easy. I originally taped a straw in the v-notch and all that, but soon figured out there was no need.

I had hoped to set the LR between tables and alternately record my son's shots and mine, but with the unit centered between tables apparently the rifles are not close enough. I've never had somebody else's rifle at an adjacent table trigger my unit.

My LR picks up shots from my 223 and 22-250,, but they are not "severe" boat tails.

Once I got the LR figured out, I ran simultaneously with my M35 for several range sessions with multiple rifles each time. Adjusting the M35 velocities for distance from muzzle, recorded velocities were within single digits most of the time, and out of almost 200 shots I had two that were 30-40fps different. Years ago I tested my M35 against a friend's M35 and had basically the same results.

The LR is the sixth chrono I've owned since the early 80's, and it's my fav so far. I still consider the M35 the gold standard, and will probably keep it.

I'm going to buy the Magnetospeed.

Now I need to decide between the MagnetoSpeed V3 & the MagnetoSpeed Sporter.

(In the words of a street vendor in Mexico City, I can be known as a "Cheapy Skate".)

I'd dearly like to see the pictures of the mounting by Mule Deer or Dirt Farmers. Considering the more than twice the price of the "V3" over the Sporter, I'd think the exterior mounting would be just fine with the "Sporter" version. Plus I often take multiple rifles to the bench rest. Am I wrong with the assumption that the Sporter would work as well as the V3 with that exterior mounting?

I've tried them all fwiw.... Until Labradar produces a new version addressing bullet size and velocity limitations, I'm sticking with my 35 that's mounted in a long plywood box that sits atop a single tripod.

MarineHawk,

"The MS says something like that the bullet's outer diameter should be passing 1/4" to 1/8" of the MS surface. Is that the case with the new setup? If so, I'm just curious how it would change the POI less than being mounted to the barrel?"

Why would passing close to the MagnetSpeed's "bayonet" (or anything else) change the POI of a bullet?

When mounted on the barrel a MagnetoSpeed can change both POI and accuracy because it changes the vibrations of the barrel, sometimes drastically. The only rifles I've encountered where it didn't were heavy-barreled rifles, usually chambered for relatively mild cartridges--but it changed POI an inch at 100 yards even with a Ruger No. 1B (medium-contour barrel) chambered in .22 Hornet. With sporter weight bolt actions I've seen barrel mounted MagnetoSpeeds change 100-yard POI up to three inches, and also make groups open up to 2-3 inches--with rifles that averaged well under an inch with the same load.

As I have noted elsewhere, I really liked my LabRadar at first, and never had any trouble getting it aligned. Used on around trips to the range before its limitations eventually convinced me that it wasn't ideal for my purposes. I suspected that would be the case, but had to try one because of what I do for a living. but the limitations turned out to be somewhat greater than the MS instructions claimed.

Okay, MD. Thanks for the information. That makes more sense than what I was assuming. I was assuming that the pressure wave through the air was bouncing off the bayonet back onto the bullet in flight or something. But I was just making that up in my head.

Friend got me a scope mount that clamps on top of the LR. I had a Remington 3-9x40 package scope on the shelf. Centered the adjustments, mounted it to the LR mount. Now I almost never miss a shot, including hundreds of .224 75gn A-max, which I used to miss quite frequently.

There are Pic rail adapters and peep sights available not, all FAR better than the sighting notch.

Below is just my personal experience. Understandably, everyone needs and goals are different. Previously, I used a Shoot'n Chrony. The main drawback being the hassle of set up at a busy public range.

I've got both a Labradar and a Magnetospeed. I strap an old Weaver scope to the LR, and alignment to the bullet path is super easy. I use both the LR and MS when I fire foulers at the beginning of a shooting session to confirm I am getting accurate bullet speeds. They almost always agree to within 0.1% of each other, i.e. within 3fps for a 3000fps muzzle velocity. If they don't agree, I reboot each one and try again, at which point, they have always agreed. Then, I remove the MS and do my test shooting with the LR.

The cartridges I shoot range from .223 Rem to .300WSM. The LR is always able to pick up the .22 bullets, which are flat base (no experience with .22 boat tail bullets), and typically tracks them to about 50 yards. I have had the LR track .30 bullets up to 120yds. I have the Pietz accelerometer trigger, but never use it for rifle shooting because the LR pretty much never misses a shot for me. The Pietz trigger gets used for archery.

The LR is great because I get velocity on every shot while doing a rough (using 2-shot groups) OCW series of shots when developing a load. I am mainly looking for max pressure/velocity, but, since the LR doesn't touch the barrel, I get the groups for free. I then plot group size vs velocity and can quickly get a very good picture for how the gun works with that bullet and powder. I then go back and shoot 5-shot groups where I see tighter groups and a flattened velocity curve line up.

The only drawback for me with the LR, which, is as Mule Deer mentioned, is that I can't record my max velocities with my 22-250. Fastest velocity I ever recorded on the LR was 3929fps, and the 22-250 shooting a 50gn bullet will exceed that. The MS would be a benefit for these higher velocity cartridges.


Here is the basic set-up with a Kimber Montana .300WSM:





A graph of the results of a rough OCW test, plus four 5-shot groups centered around 68.5gn, with an M70 Extreme Weather:




Resulting 5-shot group from the above M70 load development:

Got curious to see Mule Deer's Caldwell mount for his Magnetospeed. Since I had found the photo, I thought I might was well post it here.



Mule Deer - how hard is it to maintain alignment between the bullet path and the Magentospeed from shot to shot, and from rifle to rifle? And, if there is misalignment, does it reduce measurement accuracy, or, does the unit completely stop working so you know you have a problem before collecting a bunch of bad data?

For you LR guys, what do you think is the optimum distance between the barrel and the side of the LR?

Roughly 6" - 8" is good for me. I never saw any obvious benefit from being closer. Farther away eventually starts to introduce triggering problems and bullet path alignment errors, although you probably won't notice any negative affects until you're at least 12" away, and, then, the affects are small. Optimum distance probably depends on cartridge, muzzle attachment, and your local range conditions - how busy with other shooters, the nature of the covering over the bench, etc.

And, an inch or two in front of the muzzle works best for me, too. That is with no brake or suppressor, just a regular bare muzzle. But realize that the algorithm the LR uses assumes it is sitting even with the muzzle, so don't get too carried away on the front/back placement of the unit.

Thanks for the info, Shinbone.

I set mine up on the right side of the rifle with the left side of the LR about 10” away, alongside the action so I can still reach the operating buttons. I use the LR base (sold separately 😊) to mount it.

i aim using the V notch on top and aim it a point somewhere between 1/2 - 2/3 of the way between the muzzle and the target. I’ve come to favor the “doppler” trigger mode and have been successful with .224 40 grain Ballistic Tips and Blitzkings up to a little under 4000 fps.

About the only time it misses a shot is when I forget to change the velocity range if I’m testing handgun and rifles at the same time or when the batteries are about gone. To conserve batteries, when I’m changing rifles I turn off the LR as I put aside one rifle and set up with another. You can also use a rechargeable battery pack.

The LR has a parameter in the menu allowing you to adjust the lateral distance between the barrel and the LR, and the instructions explain specifically how to place the muzzle in relation to the fore/aft position of the LR, depending on what you’re shooting. I’ve found that it works very well to follow their instructions regarding fore/aft, and to stay roughly the lateral distance that the menu option is set for. For non-braked rifles, placing the muzzle even with the LR, and for braked rifles a couple inches behind the LR seems to work well. Putting a braked muzzle even with, or a few inches ahead of, the LR tends to result in a lot of blast hitting the LR and knocking it out of alignment. If placing a braked muzzle ahead of the
LR, I’ve had better luck placing it well ahead (like 12”).

Picking up .224” 75 AM bullets is easy to do when following the above, combined with carefully aiming the device at the target.

I have found it easy to "maintain alignment" with the setup. I adjust the rest, and my forend rest, so the muzzle of the rifle hovers just above the V-block at the rear of the MagnetoSpeed when shooting.

It's just about impossible to get a "bad" reading with the MS. Either there's a reading or there isn't. The only times it's missed a reading is when I screwed up and the rifle's muzzle was a little too high above the V-block--which can occur if one rifle has a thicker forend than the others I'm testing, and I forget to adjust the forend rest to compensate.

Thanks JS. I had forgotten about the "set proj. offset" setting. I just turned mine on, and it is set to 6", which means 1" - 6", which is what I've been doing--usually about 2". No brakes on any of my rifles, except for the M1A.

I use a cheap 30000 mAh battery pack, and it lasts many hours of use before having to recharge the pack. I have two so I have a charged spare in case one dies in the middle of a chrono session. Early in my LR ownership, I once thought my LR had developed a problem because it would intermittently pick up shots, while missing most shots. Turned out that the battery pack had been used for multiple range sessions, and the voltage was getting too low for the LR to work consistently. Swapped out the battery pack, and was back in business.

For mounting, I use an Arca mount (for quick release functionality) on a little table-top tripod. The tripod is linked below.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687341-REG/Oben_TT_100_TT_100_Table_Top_Tripod.html

Another option. I haven’t used this one, but it should also work:

https://cameralandny.com/shop/hawke...n=1450427&query=Table%20top%20tripod

I like my LabRadar and have never missed a shot with it. However, I haven't used it with any cartridges below .22 or faster than 4000 fps. If I were reloading for those cartridges much I would use a different chrono.

I'll repost mine. I used a cheap, aluminum Lyman rest I wasn't using. I cut a notch in one lip to support the bayonet, drilled and screwed the unit to the base. I cut a hole for the cord. Not a hard to do project. Like JB said, just gotta align the bayonet with the bore and you're good to go. It's not that hard on batteries, a 9 volt will last a while. It won't miss a reading unless there isn't correct alignment with the bore. I made a tailgate bench that's long enough for the unit. One could clamp a board to a conventional bench, extended enough to hold the device. Lots of ways to "skin a cat"....

Rifle is friend's Shilen barreled 26 Nosler, B&C Medalist, Conquest scope. Gibraltar drum throne makes a great bench rest seat. Not cheap, but will last forever.

DF

I have the magnetospeed. Shot it in the back yard with a 22 and realized it was not worth my time.
Back to the Pro Chrono.




I have a CED M2, but have not bothered to open the box.
... pro chrono still working.

Yep, the consensus is the ProChrono is is the best, uh, bang for the buck, if there's room to use it.

It's also great for chronographing shotshell loads.

Just used the Magnetospeed today at the range. Thanks to "dirtfarmer" for the pics of your setup. I'll be on the lookup for a second rifle rest. But I wonder if my big and heavy vise might have a compatible height too. Something to check out.

The problem with any chronograph that has screens - for me - is that the wind seems to be an issue. The wind is a definite issue with my Caldweld Chronograph's screens at any rate. So maybe the ProChrono is great, but I'm not sure it is the right one for me. I can't wait for the wind to die down in this part of the world.

Wind and lighting.

Bigwhoop, there's more than one way to skin a cat...

DF