For a couple weeks now I have been using my limited computer skills searching for a documented case of a HUNTING type bullet causing a wildfire. There is a lot of statements, news articles, and some very sketchy "studies" funded by the USFS. But I'm not seeing what I thought I would be seeing. The best funded "study" shows some 100,000 frame photos of impacts, and some actual ignition of peat from testing. "A study of ignition by rifle bullets", MA Finney used some pretty wild parameters to draw their conclusions. Like impacting an AR 500 plate at about a 30 degree angle with steel core ammo. Not my idea of a hunting bullet. They claim ignition with solid copper bullets, but I can't find the methodology they used. They claim one ignition from cup and core bullet...but again, no details.
So, my question is, just here on the 24 hr Cluster Camp and Comment, not the experience of your cousin Daryl....has anybody had an experience actually starting a fire or getting a smolder with hunting bullets? There has to be 10,000 years of combined experience here.

I've never seen anything of the sort, ever. I've seen well over 100,000 rounds shot in my lifetime.

Campfire hunters generally have their bullets slow down by going through a body before they hit the grass.

have had no experience of it happening evah.

but, muzzle loaders with patches in dry woods & low humidity have been rumored......

don't have any actual evidence. but a a cotton patch is more of a suspect than a lead bullet.

Locals started a fire a couple years back. No record, however, of the type of ammo they were using. They stayed and fought the flames, but things got out of hand, and some air tankers came roaring in and got it under control. No charges incurred, but when conditions warrant the range is now closed from about 10 AM to 6 PM.

Sounds like a bunch of Bunny Hugger BS to me. Brass and copper are both pretty inert as far as making sparks. And even as far as steel core bullets the deer I hunt aren't made of steel or flint although the way some walk off after being shot you'd think some are. Sometimes Hollywood shows somebody shooting at gasoline on the grass causing a fire. I've tried that and I think it's also fiction. I think it's another attack on shooting and hunting and the Second Amendment in general.

As above, ML'ers come to mind. I started a small grass fire once while dove hunting with a SxS ML'er. Big old smoldering greased wads were the culprit. Got a little sporty until we got it put out.

Reason this came up, I stopped by the local USFS Guard Station a couple weeks back, asked the engine boss if he had heard any rumors about shutting down or postponing buck season?
He said he hadn't heard anything but went on to remark, "If it was up to me, I'd shut it down." No point in further discussion.
Every time I drop by there, I swear I'll never stop again. In May it was dry and windy, so I thought I'd stop and make sure power saw use had not been curtailed. Lots of back and forth, several phone calls (they sent the district office people home with pay for the flu scare), he said, "I don't know". So I said, "well can you assure me I won't get a citation then?" He says, "of course not, you break the rules, you get busted". No point in further discussion.

Sound like a bunch of fuuckwits to me.

Hunting Dove this afternoon and the BLM land to the west of the orchard is closed to target shooting during some fire seasons. We often shoot steel plate there but not today. Interesting because the grass is cazy short but have seen evidence of fire . Possibility of fires keeping us away today so says my friend.
And no I've never seen any sparks from our equipment. Our local park has closed the trails to horses because a horse shoe "could cause a spark and could start a fire" OK! My horse is barefoot!

A government "study" :

https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs/rmrs_rp104.pdf

The only example I have knowledge of is not the bullet that caused the ignition, but the tannerite that it was shot into.

Well, damn. There goes my idea of a bullet trap utilizing slabs of granite and filled with fine, dried peat. I guess I'll just go back to shooting into the dirt.

Solution: water cored c-n-c bullets.

Shooters started a fire in the Black Hills shooting steel core ammo, south west of Rapid City.

The rocks in the hills vary - limestone, granite, quartz, gypsum, iron ore, and I believe flint. Even with steel core ammo it would seem not too likely, but when a fellow shoots 1,000’s of rounds...
I see no reason for shooting steel core ammo, especially with AR’s into rocks. I guess for some it might be fun.

I don’t believe it would be at all likely for brass, lead or copper to cause ignition, perhaps possible, but very unlikely.

Friend of mine was hunting with his family and a group on a WMA when we were kids. Muzzle loader hunts were all black powder, iron sights, etc...and were a big deal on WMA's back then because it was one of the few times you could kill a doe. The group decided to push an area that had been clear cut and nothing had grown back yet....except sage grass, which around here is dry in the winter. Someone took a shot, sage grass caught fire, and he said it was quite a sight to see and the game wardens weren't to happy about it. Alabama's pretty wet in the winter so even though there was limbs and junk on the ground nothing caught on fire except the sage.

Kevin Robertson burned down his farm in Zimbabwe with a hang fire from his 505 Gibbs

I probably sent over 100k rounds of small arms ammo (M-16 variants + belt-fed) down range when I was on active duty and I saw several million more go down range.

The only fires I saw get started were from pyrotechnic devices, flame weapons, and indirect-fire weapons. Tracer ammo MIGHT set something alight but I never saw it.


Okie John

The first time I fired a 505Gibbs it knocked the cigarette out of my mouth but that's as close as I got to causing a fire from firing a bullet.

I've got a 16inch barrel 30/06 that looks like it could set fire to dry grass when it goes off.

Years ago we set some leaves on fire shooting tracers. Not hardly hunting ammo...We were shooting into a steep sand bank across a pond. One tracer seemed to bounce straight up about 20 feet, then fall back to the ground in front of the bank and land in a small pile of leaves. We could see it still burning on the ground and took off running to put it out. Good fire, about the size of a campfire, going by the time we got there. But that was with a 7.62 tracer. Haven't shot any of those things since.

I've been shooting for 55 years and never even heard of anyone starting a fire with hunting ammo.

I have never heard of a cup and core bullet or a mono all copper starting a fire. Now military surplus steel bullets... All of the local ranges (Public ones) use a magnet to check bullets/ammo. Always 223/5.56 & 7.62 are the problems. Been years since I have seen 30-06 or 8mm Mauser with steel tipped bullets. The steel ones WILL spark. Of course tracers..

I was shooting crows with a .22-250 Ruger many years ago, was laid down prone resting the rifle on a duffle bag, the muzzle blast set fire to the dead grass field and l had to jump up and stomp it out in a hurry. Not a bullet caused fire though.

I've seen normal, everyday bullets make a spark when hitting rocks at first or last light, but that's it.

I've started fires with tracers, but they're far from "normal" bullets and/or ammo. I know of at least one fire a couple years ago in Wyoming started by Tannerite.

I know of several fires started by car exhaust pipes on the grass and even came across what I have to assume was a naturally smoking and smoldering tree stump covered in embers. I have no idea how to explain why it was so hot, as it was on a riverbank with ice cold water all around it, but it was.

Never a non-tracer bullet itself though.

we were plinking in the desert many years ago with our SKSs and steel core. Saw the smoke and we just managed to get it out before it became too big.

I read somewhere that copper bullets are more likely to start fires than cup and core. Can't remember where.

I can't see it happening with copper or copper alloys. Copper alloys are used for non-sparking tools because they don't spark. I've certainly never seen of heard of a case of one setting a fire, and we get some days where you could start a fire with a harsh look here.

Steel I'm prepared to believe, though I think you'd be unlucky, and it isn't what I'd choose for a hunting bullet. Tracer I definitely believe, because I've seen it start fires quite a number of times. I remember one shoot in particular when I was in military service, where we had repeated stoppages of play to go downrange and put the fires out.

The catalytic converter under the vehicle you drive is another potential source, and there have been a few fires here from dry grass etc around one of these.

There again AFAIK the two major sources of bushfires here are lightning and arsonists

The US Forest Service study quoted above shows copper as being ABOVE steel core and or jackets in it's fire starting ability. Must have something to do with particle temperatures after impact. The British, greatest navy in the world in the days of black powder (the most easily ignited powder of all) used copper implements to handle black powder.

Of course tracers will cause fires. Hell, they're on fire when you pull the trigger. But you have no business hunting with Tracers.

As for brass or copper causing sparks I still think it's Bunny Hugger BS.

My Grandfather used to light floating brush piles on the Tanana river on fire with a .30 Browning machinegun. Probably tracers I would imagine.

Last time I was at the range, we had a grass fire.

No one was shooting steel target, or steel core bullets nor anything other than paper targets.

Best we can tell a hot bullets glanced off the berm with just enough energy to make it to the dry grass on the other side, with enough heat energy to start that tinder box.

We knocked it down with shovels and rakes before the fire department arrived, keeping it on the clubs property and out of the neighbors crops.

So, I can tell you from first hand experience that grass fires can ignite from just the heat energy of a conventional bullet.

Not a physicist, but I would imagine a lead slug stepping along at 3 to 4,000 fps might generate a little heat when it comes to an instant stop. Might even turn into molten lead which is warm enough to ignite a lot of materials.

A little surfing found:
According to research by FLIR (manufacturer of thermal imagers) the surface temperature of a fired bullet is up to 500°F. ... The specific heat of lead is 0.13 J/g , so if all of its energy was converted to heat (by deformation impacting an infinitely hard target) that 200gr = 13g bullet could gain something like 1400°C

A recent brush fire around here was allegedly started by yokels shooting tracers, I beleve on Lake Belton, not sure.

Tracers will do it every time.

When the country gets really dry in late summer/early fall, it doesn't take much to start a fire in grass. I won't shoot a centerfire into anything but bare dirt with no vegetation nearby under those conditions, and am careful where I shoot my .22 as well. Tannerite is a no go unless there is snow on the ground. My dad said the old paper shotgun shells with felt or paper wads were good for starting fires too. I suspect the newer plastic shells/wads are lots safer....but I didn't go bird hunting first weekend because here in eastern MT it was dry as hell and Montana already had several fires...didn't need to start another one.

Back in the sixties I was shooting a .44 Magnum revolver, using Elmer Keith's 250 grain SWC that I had cast myself. I had used Lyman's black bullet lube when sizing and lubricating the bullets, and they were loaded over 22.0 grains of 2400, just like Elmer used to do. I was shooting at a paper target mounted on the face of several bales of hay.

After firing 50 rounds or so, I noticed smoke coming the hay. I tore the bale apart and found it was smoldering inside, right where the bullets were hitting. I could only conclude that the bullet lube was hot enough to ignite the hay. First and only time I ever experienced something like this, but it made me more careful when shooting cast bullets into anything that resembled tinder.

Rock against rock can make a spark.

Any bullet can knock a rock against a rock.

Bruce