Hello Mule Deer and all members

John you were right about the Hornany full resizing dies(9.3 x 62) being able to easily expand 30-06 up to 9.3 caliber. I followed your advice and purchased a set of the 9.3 x 62 dies and they worked very well AND easily. I've reloaded for 45 years and never owned Hornady dies, always RCBS. I am pleased with Hornady Co.


Also, I purchased a used, old Bonanza press(before Hornady purchased Bonanza Reloading Co.) three years ago off of ebay. It needed the missing set of primer feeder tubes, and a spring for the primer feeder tubes to properly feed primers to seat them. They were sent to me for FREE! For FREE! Postage paid. The die set was ordered from Midway USA. The new parts for my new/old press worked perfectly and I can still purchase the same press from Hornady that was made by Bonanza over fifty years ago. I've never experienced any difference in accuracy by not hand seating the primers. Maybe you guys have. Also, I stopped standardizing primer pocket holes, and just now clean out the primer flash hole after Mule Deer wrote a article about not standardizing the dept of the holes. I tried it and there was NO difference except not having the aggravation of doing the primer pockets. My rifles are not competition rifles and it just doesn't matter.

I am impressed with Hornady. I'm impressed! I've used Hornady bullets most of my life as they expanded well,were accurate, and performed very well on North East Tennessee's mid size whitetail deer.

Thanks for the advice.

roanmtn(Roan Mountain)

Thanks for the report! Both on the Hornady dies and the experiment with primer pockets.

I have had excellent luck with Hornady dies, both because of the tapered expand ball and the seater, which has a sleeve to align bullets as they're seated.

Have also had excellent experiences with their customer service.

Agree its certainly nice to be able to just run '06 brass into the die, but after the die sizes the neck up to take 9.3 bullets how does the '06 shoulder get moved ahead more than .090 inch to meet the 9.3X62 specs?

That is a lot of extra space.

Ted

I also just bought my first set of Hornady dies (308 Winchester) after decades of being an RCBS-or-nothing guy.

Hornady dies are superb.


Okie John

Hornady does would be okay if they threaded the damn spindle on the size die. I use prefer Redding..

Guess I am puzzled. In ALL the Hornady rifle dies I have the spindle is threaded on the sizing die So what are you talking about?

I also like and use Redding dies, of all sorts. In fact probably have as many Reddings as any brand.

But due to my profession I try to use (and understand) all sorts of dies.

They do. And have done so for years.

Me too, they make good dies.

Like any company, Hornady has had a few hiccups. The unthreaded spindles on older dies were problematic, but kits are available to upgrade these older sets. I had a couple of neck sizing dies that had a smooth spindle, but upgraded.

The only argument you might get from a purist is the sleeve of a Forster seating die is tighter and therefore, aligns better.

I have compared my Hornady, Redding and Forster seaters for 308 Winchester and the latter two do more consistently load straighter cartridges.

What's the TPI on 'em?

Asking for a friend....

"The only argument you might get from a purist is the sleeve of a Forster seating die is tighter and therefore, aligns better."

Yep, but with many of today's longer, heavier, longer-shanked bullets I haven't been able to measure a difference in seated bullets between the Forster and Hornady seaters will the same bullet and cartridge.

Plus, in general have found how well the die's seating stem fits the specific bullet can make more difference in how straightly a specific bullet is seated.

On the Hornady die, it is 0.0555 up or down per full turn.

The seating stem is just as important as the sleeve in these dies. I use Hornady and Forster for seating all my cartridges. Runout is less of a problem, compared to my old RCBS and Lee dies. In conjunction with the seating stem, Lee and RCBS std dies would allow the bullet to sit cockeyed. These last two left me unimpressed. These are the std die sets of which I speak.

Edited to add: I do have a couple of Wilson sets that have a great seating die as well.

Edited once again: You will also find, depending on the bullet, that ye olde fashioned Lee Loader does a good job of seating bullets.

Hornady sizing dies remind me a lot of LEE dies, for some reason...

It might be me, but I would trust Hornady sizing dies over the Lee dies. I am not a fan of Lee's spindles. We all have different methods to achieve our ends. For me, all my die sets are mixed. Depending on the cartridge, of course. The 6x45mm die set below is a mix. Hornady box and FL sizer, Forster seating die. Lee Collet and crimp die. Not all companies make dies for every cartridge.

Note the threaded spindle on the sizing die.

Steve,

Loved your statement, "You will also find, depending on the bullet, that ye olde fashioned Lee Loader does a good job of seating bullets."

Have used the Lee Loader since 1966, and it works on the same principle as most ":benchrest" dies.

A few years ago I bought a new Lee Loader die set for the .22 Hornet. It resulted in sub-half-inch groups ( 5 shots, not 3) at 100 yards.

Hi John. Thanks. While it is possible to screw up the machining of a Lee Loader, I think it's fair to say that there is less of a chance, compared to regular dies. Just drill the hole straight.

When I was younger, I used to pick this grey sealant off buildings and use it with my Lee Loader seating stems. I cannot affirm that it helped, but I thought that shaping the opening to fit the bullet was a good idea.

John, Back, sometime in the 80s, when Hornady stopped using Pacific dies & came out with their "New Dimension" line of dies the decapping rod was not threaded, but a friction only fit in an outside threaded tapered collar which squeezed the decapping rod. This worked for about the first 2 or 300 uses but over time the collar ran out of grip or the rod got polished too much from slippage. The dies became almost unusable no matter how much the collar was tightened. I've pitched 3 or 4 of these sizers & moved on to other manufacturer's dies. No such problems with Redding, or RCBS, or Forster, or CH, so there's never been a reason to consider Hornady dies ever again..

In all fairness Hornady's seating die seemed like a pretty slick idea & it appears that they have improved their sizing dies in the interim. Do they still use those junky clear red boxes with the ill-fitting lids that come off completely?

Hi Ted. After the 30-06 case is expanded it must be fire formed in the 9.3 x 62 chamber. The bullet should touch the lands. This forces the base back onto the bolt face and assures that the case shoulder is formed farther forward than the 30-06 with no problems. Years ago I fireformed 50 cases that I used up for practice.

These cases were Winchester cases and they lasted forever as I only neck sized them with the cheap Lee Collet Die Set. The Lee Collet set has produced much, much better accuracy than any other dies of any other make for me. I have borrowed very expensive dies from buddies here in Johnson City, Tennessee. Those expensive dies have never produced better accuracy than the Lee Collet Dies in spite of their much cheaper cost. My 9.3 x 62 can place three bullets at 1/2 inch when I settle down and really concentrate using 286 gr Barnes X bullets. I used these components on my only once in a life time African hunt. I can't afford another trip. The first trip emptied my checking account. I had to be real careful with the 286 gr spitzers as they seemed to slip back into the cases.... so I was careful and carried them
with the cartridges pointing forward and not up or down. It all worked out just fine. The collet neck sizing die was not tight enough.

roanmtn....Glenn

Steve and John,

One of most accurate ammo I have ever produced, if not the most, has been 222R using a Lee Loader Hand Set. 19.5-20,0 grains of MR 4198 with any 52-53 gr hollow point match bullet and CCI 400s would put five bullets, consistently, into a tiny ragged hole.

The one that you had to hammer the fired case into the die, and that all steps were done completely manually.

Rifle was a Remington Mohawk with a Manlincher stock that I was so stupid to sell, dropping the Lee set into the deal.

Alvaro

It seems we all have different views about dies. (probably the same with women, and many other subjects)

I still have a few Pacific dies that I much prefer over the new dimension dies.....and there are no longer any new dimension dies here.

I also had several sets of the Herter's dies as I was the designer of those in their later years.....post 1973.

Other than that green boxes adorn my cabinet of about thirty sets of dies. RCBS makes very fine dies.....always have and still do.

As to customer service, no one beats Hornady here.....they are excellent. RCBS also does a very fine job of this as well.

When I first started loadng I bought a Lee Zero Error to load for my .270 Win. Those were the best loads I ever produced.. My .270 is a push feed Model 70 from 1966 and while reasonably hunter accurate it's no bench rest gun. But with that Zero Error it would consistantly shoot sub MOA groups. But I lost that Lee in a divorce and I've never replaced it. Even after I got me an RCBS press and dies after a couple of years using the Zero Error I still used it to seat bullets. I miss that Lee and have thought about getting another one or three or four just for seating bullets. The Zero Error had a micrometer to adjust depth. I used the micrometer adustment to set it up the first time and then left it locked in place when I found the best seating depth which if I remember correctly was about .010" off the lands. Also one reason I didn't replace it is I got lazy with my reloading. For a strictly hunting rifle I couldn't justify the difference between 3/4" and 1 1/4" five shot groups.

Apparently some read my recommendation of Hornady dies as suggesting that Hornady makes the very best dies. I did not say that, and as a matter of fact, aside from Hornady my collection of around 75 sets of dies includes some made Forster, Lee, Lyman, RCBS and Redding--and often more than one type of die from a company, such as Lee, where it includes the original Lee loader, their standard press dies, and Lee Collet dies.

I don't really consider any of them better or worse than the others, but they all work a little differently. I need to understand how because of my job--and sometimes how to adapt them so they work better.

Vapodog, yes RCBS made some suck sizing dies, but as far as I know not since the 1980s. Way back then they made some dies for rifle rounds based on the same case (such as the .30-06) by reaming only the body first, then reaming the necks later, resulting in .25-06, .270, .35 Whelen, etc. I know this from a friend who knew the inside story--and by me owning a couple sets of RCBS dies made that, with the necks reamed a little off-center from the bodies. One was a pretty expensive set of custom dies for the .338-06 which I ordered in the late 1970s; the other set was for the .358 Winchester, purchased in a local store in the 80s. It took a while for me to figure this out, but obviously such dies were incapable of making accurate ammunition. After I did, the .338-06 dies were replaced by Reddings and the .358's by Hornadys--again because of the elliptical expander ball, allowing me to easily neck up .308 cases.

These days I don't think RCBS makes the best dies either, partly because the odds are only about 50-50 that their standard 2-die sets will result in straight-seated bullets right out of the box. But the standard RCBS sizer do have the virtue of being pretty easily adapted to work better. Unlike some other brands, the expander spindle allows the ball to be raised just under the neck portion of the die, which results in the case being pulled back over the expand while the case mouth meains inside the neck-hole. As a result the neck of the case remains pretty darn straight--the reason Forster Benchrest dies are designed to do the same thing. The only problem with this arrangement in the RCBS dies is the decapping pin doesn't come anywhere close to the spent primer, so the case needs to be deprimed separatelty--which is one reason I primarily use turret presses with a Lee universal decapping die in each one.

The dies that make the most accurate ammo of any in my collection, however, are a set of Redding Match dies for the 6mm PPC, the chambering of my benchrest rifle. Most real benchrest shooters use hand dies with an arbor press, but I decided to try the Redding dies--and 5-shot groups at 100 yards average .15 inch in good conditions. Bullet run-out, when any can be detected, measures less than .0005 inch.

But all of my dies are capable of making very straight ammo, either right out of the box or with minor minor modifications.

Thanks for your reply, Glenn,

I have seated bullets out hard into the lands in several different cartridges to fireform, but it was many years ago. I now always try to expand the brass to larger than required, and then resize to get a crush fit in the chamber. Perfect chamber fit, with no excess headspace, and no fireforming needed.



Can be loaded to fit the magazine, and have often hunted with the brass just as it comes from the dies.

My concern was that someone may think all one had to do was resize the '06 brass, load, and go.

Ted

I believe the companies make some dies/accessories better than others. I agree that they all work a little differently. Which company you pick depends on a number of factors - target, hunting, plinking, varminting, etc. Other factors may include the rifle action, the era in which you started, how susceptible you are to ad departments and what was winning competitions when the bug bit.

For hunting, it is pointless to say that most of the techniques employed by top level competitors will be of limited value to you if you shoot an off the shelf rifle.

All my die sets are a mix of companies. Each die reflects certain requirements. I FL resize brass for a few of my competition or lever rifles. I do this to ensure reliable functioning.

I like Redding Body Dies or Hornady FL dies, depending on the cartridge. I say that because body dies are not offered in all the cartridges I shoot - like the 30-303 or 225 for example. IMO, Hornady's elliptical expander is miles ahead of the expander ball seen on the other die sets. There is less friction, and I believe the brass is worked a bit less. Elliptical expanders are also useful for expanding case necks when forming cases too. An example would be 6x45mm or my 30-303.

But most of my bolt action rifles are for hunting or varminting. I have never attempted to make bugholes. My magic group size is 1 inch. If it is smaller than that, wonderful! Most of my rifle builds give me that or less anyway. I do not fuss endlessly to squeeze something down a bit smaller. Proper reloading techniques and good bullets do most of the work. My personal belief is that the pursuit of a ragged one hole group from a production rifle is a waste of time. My time is better spent doing other things. Of course, you might think differently.

Laziness enters into the equation as well. For my bolt rifles, in addition to straight case necks produced by the Lee Collet die, there is also a time reduction. This results from not needing to lube cases and wipe them off.

I like Forster seating dies because they do not induce bullet runout when used properly. But Forster does not offer a seating die for all the cartridges I have. In these cases, I will use Wilson, Hornady or even a Lee Loader. The Wilson and Lee Loader bullet seating methods are pretty much the same thing. You push a bullet into the case mouth with an arbor press. The seating stem pushes a bullet through a (hopefully) straight tunnel, bored through the middle. I used to tap bullets in with a hammer when I only used the Lee Loader, but I prefer a press.

These are some of the things I do.

Hi Ted

I also purchased from Hornady a caliber .411(?) tapered expander plug to over expand the case neck as you do and then form the shoulder by running the case back into the full length RCBS die that I have in 9.3 x 62. Now I also have the additional Hornady full length sizing die. The good ol' 9.3 x 62 deserves the best we can do for it.

Glenn

Steve,

Yep, a lot of my dies sets are mixed as well, though some are just modified/adapted. Some of my Redding seaters have had the standard stems replaced with their VLD stems, which can help considerably with pointier bullets.

Have also found it often handy to keep sets of dies after I sell the rifle, if possible. Sometimes it isn't when selling a rifle in a wildcat or rarer factory chambering, but have found many dies handy even after I no longer own a rifle in that cartridge. Recently did a project on handloading the 6mm-06, and instead of buying a set of the relatively expensive dies for the rounds, used a .25-06 FL die as a "body die" (no longer have a .25-06), and used a Redding "S" seating die to resize the necks.

I really like the tapered expander balls that Hornady supplies as standard in their New Dimension dies but found adjusting the decapping rod with a couple of spanners a bit of a pain. I like the Redding dies that are so easy to adjust with fingers. So simple. I have more Redding dies than anything else but have a few other brands. I often buy a FL Redding die set and then get a Hornady NS die as I neck size 99% of the time. I picked up a set of new Simplex 6.5x57 dies earlier this year and grabbed them. Searching for Redding dies revealed 'Out of stock' with no idea when they would be available. Simplex are Australian made and I couldn't believe my luck. Pretty much the proverbial needle in the haystack.

I have some Hornady equipment but quit buying them after two episodes of poor customer service. YMMV

Lee collet neck sizing dies

Hornady seating dies.




P

I made my first 9.3 x 62 cases by expanding the neck with a 375 H&H die and then used my Redding FL 9.3 sizing die a little at a time until I had a crush fit false shoulder, then fire forming. With the availability of Privi Partisan and Hornady cases I don't bother with reforming them anymore.

Did not Forster buy Bonanza?

https://www.forsterproducts.com/product-category/case-sizing-lubricating/co-ax-reloading-press/