I would like to hear other’s experiences (especially Mule Deer’s) with monometals because it is my belief that there is a common misunderstanding that they work just like grandpa’s cup and core pills but my experience is different.
First the background, I started using Barnes when they introduced the X bullet in the mid 80’s, not because I needed them for deer but just because my budding rifle loonyism compelled me to try them out. My only big game rifle at the time was a 30-06 and the X bullets were outstanding performers although they were not stellar accuracywise and they did foul more than C&C bullets. The moly coated XLC fouled less but I never liked them since they cured the fouling problem but were no more accurate than the X bullets. Enter the TSX, outstanding accuracy and terminal performance and they shot well with just about any seating depth followed by the TTSX which further improved the design.
During this evolution, my hunting bag included 50+ blacktail, a few mule deer, a few elk, a few pigs and various plains game from warthog to zebra with calibers from .223 to .375. With a handful of exceptions they were one shot DRT.
In over 30 years of usage I have never lost an animal nor experienced this “pencil on through” phenomena.
This brings me back to the original reason for the post. My experience tells me that monometals are different and need to be used differently than C&C bullets. They are less dense than C&C bullets, hence longer in a given caliber for a given weight and they expand to lesser frontal area than a C&C. For example a typical 30cal 150 grain cup and core bullet might expand to around .600 and have a fairly round blunt frontal area while a typical mono bullet might only expand to about .500 at it’s widest point but have petals and a relatively “sharp” frontal area. Not much difference you say? The area of the monometal would be .196 sq in while the area of the C&C would be .282 which is 44% greater. Add to that the blunt frontal area of the C&C bullet and the difference is much greater.
This is one of the reasons that monometals penetrate so much more than C&C bullets but for this reason they impart less energy as they pass through a given amount of game. Here is the reason for the “pencil on through” myth. The difference is like being stuck with an arrow or punched with the end of a baseball bat.
Now we come to the heart of the matter. We have all heard the stories that go something like, “I shot a deer with a monometal bullet and he ran off like he wasn’t even hit” or “I shot a deer with a monometal and the bullet never expanded because there was a caliber-size exit hole”. If you take the tried and true behind the shoulder shot through the ribs with a monometal bullet, because of the lesser frontal area, the bullet will transfer a lot less energy to the game and leave a much smaller exit wound than a C&C. The deer is just as dead but he may run 75-100 yards (or farther) before he realizes it. Here is where the “pencil on through” myth comes from. So if you want DRT what do you do? CNS or bone. Not because you need bone for expansion but because when you hit bone the bullet imparts far greater energy to the target. This is why I have come to favor neck shots or high shoulder shots for DRT results.
So the question is, why use a monometal instead of traditional bullets? First, 100% reliable terminal performance with nearly 100% weight retention. Second, near match bullet accuracy. Third, less meat damage. Fourth, penetration, penetration and penetration which can be helpful on larger game or less than ideal shot presentation.
I’m not saying monometals are the magic bullet, anyone is welcome to use anything that they want. My point is don’t dismiss monometals based on very little experience and not understanding how they work.
Flame suit on.

The only experience on game with a monometal is with the 225 gr. TSX in my .35 Whelen. Every shot on elk have either been DRT or the elk was so hard hit it could not get up to try and run away.

Other than that, what little I have done with them is the 100 gr. bullet for the .257 Robt. and 120 and 140 gr. in 7MM for the 7x57 and .280 Rem. So far I haven't had much luck reaching any acceptable level of accuracy for hunting. Three to five inch groups suck.
Paul B.

I think you hit the nail on the head. This fits with my experience using them for about the same amount of time.

I currently (have used others) use the following:

80 gr TTSX in 6mm Rem
100 gr TTSX in two .257 Weatherbys
130 gr TTSX in .308 Win
200 gr TSX in .350 Rem Mag

I would only use the tipped variety in bores at or under .270 - .284 because of the small diameter hollow point and expansion issues.. I remember reading that Mule Deer had an issue with the smaller bore non tipped (small cavity hollow point) version and have used his wisdom and applied it to my loads. My.350 Rem Mag load (the tipped version is too long) is devastating on Black Bears. My daughter shot a Black Bear with the 80gr TTSX in the 6 mm Rem and I could not believe the penetration of that bullet and the bone damage! I also think that the 100 gr TTSX is IDEAL in the .257 Weatherby magnum (as is other monometals).

Some monos for sure pencil through. Especially those smaller calibers. In general I have noticed animals run longer after being shot with a mono if no bone or the CNS is not hit. Blood trails are often scant as well because the entrance and exit holes are small.
If was not concerned with lead entering my meat supply I would go back to.lead and copper bullets in a heart beat.

Agree. I have trained myself to shoot shoulders.

The one exception I've noticed is very light for caliber medium bore ttsx bullets at high speeds. The 160 ttsx from a .338-06 and the 180 from a .35 Whelen cause a lot of trauma and expend a lot of energy in the animal. I have a picture somewhere of a whitetail doe that I shot through the ribs and the entrance wound looked like an exit wound and there was a bloodshot area about the size of a basketball on the entrance side.

Mule Deer has written about this several times on here and I believe in magazine article/s. Hunters have less lead in their bodies than city dwellers who don't hunt. Until the Barnes X bullet came out lead was in all bullets that I know of and we didn't have an epidemic of lead poisoning in hunters or those who ate the meat of animals shot with lead bullets.

If you’re looking for an argument from me, “you’re barking up the wrong tree”! . memtb

I never had one pencil through and I have shot a couple hundred of them at game starting with the original. I did go through a long spell of on the shoulder shots but quit after I had a freezer full of blood shot shoulders. Maybe with behind the shoulder or soft flesh only shots they are slower killers than other types of bullets but you can't prove it by me. I would need high speed camera footage to see any difference if it exists.

Just train yourself not to crowd the diaphragm. So many people like to shoot at the edges of the lungs for some reason. With a more explosive bullet this tends to work reasonably well. Not so much with a monometal bullet. But the problem isn’t the bullet. It’s missing the target.

Tejano,

Have had more than one 100-grain hollow-point .25 caliber TSX fail to open--or at least not open fully. One was started from a .257 Weatherby at 3550 fps, and the animal was a pronghorn buck at around 250 yards. The bullet landed close behind the shoulder (have also found that the claim of zero meat damage on shoulder shots to not always be true), and the buck went around 250 yards before falling over. There was ZERO blood trail until about 10-15 feet from where he lay. The wound channel through the middle of both lungs was extremely small, with zero peripheral damage.

Almost the same thing happened with a bullet from the same batch, on a forkhorn mule deer buck Eileen shot at around 50 yards with her NULA .257 Roberts--and that bullet did hit bone, going through the bottom of both shoulder blades and the top of both lungs. (She put the bullet there because the buck was standing in tall sagebrush.) There was zero blood trail, not unusual with higher chest shots, but we followed in the direction the buck went, and put it up within 50 yards--whereupon it staggered through the sage for maybe 20-25 yards before falling permanently. Once again, the wound channel was tiny, with zero peripheral damage.

The next year the Tipped TSX came out, and we switched to it. It worked a lot better--but also resulted in considerable meat damage when Eileen shot a good-sized mule deer buck at 99 yards (lasered) with the NULA .257, muzzle velocity 3150 fps, right behind the shoulder. Despite the meat damage, the buck sauntered away for almost 100 yards. Eileen waited, another round in the chamber, just in case--but he eventually gently lay down and expired.

I have seen that sort of performance (except for the meat damage, which is rare) with various monos, not just the Barnes bullets, enough times to expect animals to travel some after rib shots. Last fall was a good example: I killed a mule deer doe at around 200 yards with a 140 TTSX from a 7mm-08, started at around 2900 (can't remember the exact velocity). Again, it was a broadside shot, and I deliberately aimed behind the shoulder to save meat--which is the obvious reason to shoot a muley doe. The bullet landed right where I aimed, and went through the blood vessels at the top of the heart, and the center of both lungs. She ran just about 100 yards before slowing and falling. I wasn't surprised--and also wasn't offended, because the country was wide-open foothills. Like Eileen, I had another round in the chamber, and was ready to shoot again, but didn't have to. (If it had been thick stuff, would have shot for the shoulder/spine.)

Some years ago I started listing the distance animals traveled after the shot in my hunting notes. Animals shot with monos through the lungs, not shoulders/spine, have averaged right around 50 yards--which is the longest distance among all bullets. The shortest distance with lung shots is 18 yards, with Bergers. All others have ranged between those extremes.

John,
I have to admit almost all of my X and TSX experience was 30cal and above but I'm wondering if your experience with the 257's might have been that the petals blew off? I've done that overdriving the 30cal X with a 300RUM on close shots. Ended up with a 30cal solid.

No, in fact I am pretty sure the reason is non-expansion--or not enough expansion.

What I am pretty sure happens with the smaller-caliber, hollow-point monos is the hollow-point is battered at least some what closed due to recoil, which results in the tip being flattened on the front of the magazine in bolt-action rifles.

The reasons I suspect this is have never seen it in .224 caliber monos, because they don't recoil enough--and in calibers above .30 the hollow-point is much larger. The calibers I have seen it happen in have all been from 6mm to .270/7mm, though have friends who have seen it in .30s.

One good example is a very knowledgeable friend who has killed several hundred big game animals on cull hunts in Africa. He likes the .270 Winchester a lot, and started using one of the TSXs (can't remember which one) a few years ago. He shot an eland, several times during a fairly long chase, and eventually it died. More than one bullet was recovered that did NOT expand much or at all.

Since then he has switched to TTSXs and hasn't had any such problem.

Also, I have several recovered X-Bullets, TSXs and TTSX's that lost ALL their petals, yet killed game from from deer-sized to elk-sized very quickly. In fact, I have yet to experience any "petal" type bullet, whether monolithic or the Fail Safe, that didn't kill just as well when losing all its petals--probably because they were lost when hitting heavy bone, whether shoulders or spine.

I've used TSXs, GMXs and E-Tips ranging in caliber from .223 to .375 on dozens of animals from small whitetails to Cape buffalo. I am a big fan and have never experienced what I would consider a failure.

I did have one interesting experience, through: I built a 22-6mmAI with the idea of pushing the 70-grain TSX as fast as possible. I used it on several hogs and deer and, though I recovered all of them, there did not appear to be much expansion or a decent blood trail on any of them. To the best of my knowledge, that bullet was developed for the military's "brown tip" load so clearly penetration was a priority. Great bullet, just not the right bullet for that application. I'm going to try again with lighter TSXs.

My buddy Jeff Johnston did a hog bullet test recently and had great results with the 55-grain TSX, I've experienced the same:

https://youtu.be/59hzyNOUUM8

The comments I have seen John make on the subject used blood tests to determine lead exposure. Blood tests are about useless for determining how much lead is in your body chronically. This is because lead hides out in your bones and brain for decades. Acute lead poisoning only occurs if your exposed to a very large amount of lead in a short period. However, even small amounts of lead affect the human body. Your train of thought is always brought up when talking about lead hunting bullets. However, it's based on false assumptions.

There is some irrational thinking going on here. You are worried about a problem that isn't testable and isn't quantifiable, yet must exist (in your mind). I ate a bunch of lead as a youngster, particularly as a teen, through eating various birds that we didn't get all the shot out of. I've yet to see evidence that the body can absorb much lead when ingested in its elemental state. My IQ was tested by a psychologist when I was 29. I scored 149. I don't think elemental lead is the grand threat that is repeatedly claimed.

You are free to think what you like. Even if that thinking is irrational.

It can certainly be tested for via a bone biopsy. Sounds pleasant doesnt it?
Eating birds shot by lead from a shotgun is totally different than eating game shot with lead from a high powered rifle.
If you havent found that ingested elemental lead can be absorbed you are not looking hard.
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=34&po=9

BWalker,

I find your comments on lead absorption educational, but almost all studies done concerning hunting, whether of humans eating game killed with lead bullets/shot, or of scavenging birds and wild mammals eating game killed with them, are based on blood-lead levels. Apparently that's what the scientific literature is based on. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on that.

On a slightly different tangent, one British study I came across found that cooking gamebirds taken with lead shot using "extra" ingredients containing vinegar increased the amount of lead absorbed by the cooked meat.

The risk of lead in hunters is apparently quite small, it's the lead in the environment and carrion that has become the concern. USFWS now has a database on migratory birds and raptors that have been diagnosed with lead poisoning. It's more common then I was aware of. I've written this before, but I think it's only a matter of time before we see some of the western states prohibit lead bullets for hunting, if the feds don't do it first. I won't like it, but I think it's a distinct possibility.

Actually both blood lead levels (BLL) and bone biopsies are used. We use BLLs on our instructors, especially in indoor ranges. One of the main reasons for using BLLs is that there is more than one route of exposure to lead. We have found air monitoring can show below the Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) and still have instructors with high BLLs. One of the main routes is ingestion of lead dust from surface contact and then eating and or smoking. One area of lead exposure no talked about is from handling spent brass. Almost all primers contain lead styphnate. I posted a slide on the Image Gallery of lead wipe samples of a recruit pre and post sorting spent brass for recycling. Hand washing helps a ton, but gloves are better.

JB, if you want the slide deck of our study, I can email it.

Alpinecrick

I think your correct in both the effects on raptors and what may happen to lead bullets out West.

Calerveras,

Thanks very much for you input, and would very much like to see your study. Have sent a PM.

John

I used the X bullets when they came out.

In my 7x57,35 Whelen and the 270 Win.

The TSX i tried was in 25 caliber and the first just sucked they would not open unless you shot hard bone.

The newer ones work good but i still like the X bullets,never had a problem with groups.

Mostly these days i use Partitions and regular bullets for deer.

The three rifles I hunt with are all pretty “pedestrian” on velocity, so I don’t use monometals.
- 30-30 using 170 grain partitions or 160 grain ftx’s
- 6.5x55 using 140 grain partitions or 143 grain eldx’s
- 30-06 using 200 grain partitions or 165/168 grain plastic tipped cup and cores

Works for me.

MD & others, I find any hollow point mono metal or cup and core can somehow get clogged and "pencil through" I am not saying it doesn't happen I am just saying it hasn't happened to me, that I could observe. I think I only had to go looking for one deer shot with a Barnes out of quite a few.

As far as lead ingestion this makes me leery of the Berger bullets as meat that cleaned up well still had lead in it. I am already stupid enough and don't need to accelerate this process. If you want to see something impressive try re-heating dove, duck or whatever bird in the micro wave that still have shot in them. To avoid the pyrotechnics and lead hazard I went to larger shot usually 7&1/2 as it is more likely to exit whereas 8s, 8.5s, and 9s may not for dove.
Steel shot still has the pyrotechnic possibility.

John, blood levels do give you some indication of acute exposure. For chronic exposure or body lead load it basicly doesn't tell you much. As for the literature it's much easier to talk someone into a blood sample vs. a bone biopsy. I would as also suggest there isnt a ton of studies on this particular subject.
Vinegar or other acids increasing the amount of lead in cooked meat makes sense.
FWIW I am much less concerned with eating game birds killed with lead.

Montana is looking into lead and raptors. Had a big story on it in Montana Outdoors. A friend went to a seminar where it was brought up. Hem said most of the varmint hunters there would quit if required to only shoot expensive monometal bullets.

The TSX produced inconsistent results and I quit using them.

The TTSX has been 100% reliable and produced DRT results on every deer or pig so far. Shot placement is either the forward point of the shoulder or high shoulder. Meat loss is minimal.

The only exception was an intentional shot to the high lungs with a 100 gr TTSX from a .260 to simulate what would happen with kids I take making a bad shot. That buck ran 30 - 40 yards, which is what I expected.

Deer shot in the heart or lungs are just going to run most of the time until their oxygen is expended. Where I hunt most of the time is very heavy thorn brush with plenty of rattlesnakes. So dropping an animal where it stands reduces the chances of a run in with the Texas earth worms.

My absolute favorite shot placement is a deer quartering towards me, come down 1/3 from the top, aim for the forward edge of the shoulder, exit behind the offside leg. They drop where they stand, and there is zero meat loss.

The TTSX work consistently and extremely well with that placement.

Most shots now are with a .308 Win and a 130 TTSX, though occasionally use a .260 with a 100 TTSX.

A nephew used the 80 TTSX from a .243 on a pig, which is the only Barnes which did not exit. So, it seems a bit light. Sold the .243 and now a single .260 is the light gun for young hunters. I thoroughly tested it on pigs, which are much tougher than all but our largest, most mature bucks. Every other rifle now is a .308 of some description. I really hate tracking animals in the brush.

In every rifle, 3080 - 3100 produces an excellent accuracy node with TTSX’s, even if the bullet can be run much faster. 0.010” of jump is my standard setup.

Just a Hunter,

The choices for varmint hunters are far wider and less expensive than "monometals." Barnes, Hornady and Nosler, for instance, make very accurate, lead-free bullets for varmints that are NOT monometals, but have cores made of powdered, non-toxic metals such as copper. As an example, here's an example from Graf's, a website that sells handloading components, which I order from often:

Nosler Lead-Free 50-grain .224, 100 per box: $28.69
Nosler Ballistic Tip 50-grain .224, 100 per box: $24.49

That relatively small difference in price is pretty typical for lead-free varmint bullets. I have used all three brands for shooting "burrowing rodents," and they're very accurate and highly effective. The major "problem" (if you can call it that) is like all lead-free bullets they're longer for their weight than lead-cores, so need to be lighter (hence shorter) to stabilize in typical rifling twists. However, this is counteracted somewhat by higher muzzle velocity.

As an example I have shot a LOT of prairie dogs with the 24-grain Hornady NTX handloaded to 4400 fps with 31.0 grain of Ramshot TAC from the .204 Ruger, and within the range where every prairie dog shooter I've ever shot with can hit more PD's than they miss (around 300-350 yards) they're at least as effective as lead-core 32- or 40-grain V-Maxes. (Oh, and I have shot PD's with a world-record-setting benchrest competitor, one of the top sniper instructors in the U.S. Army, and various other fine shots. Believe me, the only PD shooters who would be disappointed in the performance of such lead-free varmint bullets are those who feel only shots beyond 500 yards count.

I did an article about 2-3 years ago for RIFLE magazine on lead-free bullets for all kinds of rifle hunting, including rimfire ammo. This year I updated it for a chapter in my new book GUN GACK III.

It would take Legislative action as statutorily the Commission cannot regulate ammunition, including the chemical composition of ammunition used for hunting.

Good to know there are more options than the Nosler.

Yep, and Hornady even started selling their .17 15.5-grain NTX as a component bullet. When I wrote the book they hadn't made any decision on that yet.

It works GREAT in the .17 Hornady Hornet, getting close to 4000 fps with excellent accuracy--and in my CZ shoots to the same POI as their 17-grain V-Max ammo.