So where do we stand on this fast rifle/slow pistol powder?
I like it in my 20" carbine single shot rifle, still doubting its usefulness in my big bore revolvers due to the high temperatures & flame cutting possibly on the forcing cones.
The lower pressure & good velocity as well as accuracy are tempting me to take another look into .41 & .44 magnum handgun loads.
Any thoughts?
42
I’ve been meaning to try it for .357 carbine loads. Finally found a pound to try last week. We’ll see.
I’ve been meaning to try it for .357 carbine loads. Finally found a pound to try last week. We’ll see.
I'm using 17.5 grns under 158 xtp's. Shoots great out of a Marlin 1894 & Ruger 77/357.
They say it was designed for the .410 and 28 ga....but, it makes the angels sing in .22 Hornet.
I don't use it much in handguns, but I use it a lot in rifles.
There are applications for it, the Hornet and .357 mag are two, where it gives both high velocity and much lower pressure than just about anything else. Elsewhere, there are other powders that are as good or better in those regards. Good stuff.
I use CCI 550s in the .357 and at JB’s suggestion, 450s in the Hornet.
41Rem: The ONLY cartridge I load with Lil Gun powder is a formerly very finicky Ruger #1-B in 22 Hornet. After a few years of trying quite a few different powders and bullets I just could NOT get this, then brand new and beautifully stocked Ruger #1-B, to shoot any better than 1.75" groups (5 shots at 100 yards) and most were at and just above 2.00"!
So some years ago on this forum a fellow CampFirer suggested Lil Gun powder and nickel plated Hornet cases (solving a neck tension situation???) and voila that Rifle saved its place in my arsenal and now makes groups (5 shots at 100 yards) right at 1.00" and its best group to date with these components is .778"!
So it "helped" perk up a previously unperkable (finicky!) 22 Hornet for me.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
It rocks in the Hornet, K-Hornet and my 77/44. It does well in the .30 Sneezer and .30 Carbine also.
The .44 load is a LPP, 18.0 gr of LG and 300 gr paper patched lead. Lot of splat with that load and it runs sub MOA most days.
It’s giving me 3000 with the 35 gr. Hornady in my 10” .221 Fireball, with great accuracy, and I use it under a Lyman 358156 HP in my 357. Works great.
Old70
Seems to work fine in 450 Bushmaster...my Iowa deer load.
They say it was designed for the .410 and 28 ga....but, it makes the angels sing in .22 Hornet.
Yep, K- Hornet, too.
Almost as good as 300 MP.
DF
I use it in the .22 Hornet and the 25/20-the latter with cast bullets.
Evening! Use it in the Rossi 454 casull. Ok, good accuracy, had heard of the flame cutting & wondered if it matters in a rifle??? Was thinking of changing. .??? Bill out. 👣🐾👣🐾🇨🇦
Brian Pierce wrote a few articles in Handloader about it years ago & in standard magnum revolvers it was picking up some popularity.
But then I think it’s fallen out of favor due to the competition Silhouette shooters damaging their FA revolvers with it. The back strap flame cutting and forcing cone Erosion and high working temperatures were its downfall.
Used it in my 500 S&W Magnum. Received high velocities compared to other powders, but made the cylinder VERY hot to the touch and the forcing cone area would burn skin, this after 10 rounds. After some discussion with one of my shooting/reloading buddies, Mark C. from Baden, PA, who mentioned several of the points brought up in this thread, I discontinued its use.
Evening! Use it in the Rossi 454 casull. Ok, good accuracy, had heard of the flame cutting & wondered if it matters in a rifle??? Was thinking of changing. .??? Bill out. 👣🐾👣🐾🇨🇦
There's now cylinder gap or forcing cone in chambered rifle barrel, so no flame-cutting to worry about.
Evening! Use it in the Rossi 454 casull. Ok, good accuracy, had heard of the flame cutting & wondered if it matters in a rifle??? Was thinking of changing. .??? Bill out. 👣🐾👣🐾🇨🇦
There's now cylinder gap or forcing cone in chambered rifle barrel, so no flame-cutting to worry about.
This is a fact
I used it in a 77/44 with 300 grain LBTs without a problem, well, it was a problem for deer.
Has anyone experimented with this powder in larger capacity cases for creating low velocity reduced loads? Presuming its burn rate is roughly in the class of 2400, 4227, etc.and is safe for applications that involve those powders could be erroneous I know. I also assume that since the large outfits that assemble load data don't list Lil Gun for said applications that there's something about it that gives wonky pressure curves in medium/large capacity cartridges- but it also could be that they just don't have the time to include every powder known to man for every cartridge known to man, and that's what has sown my curiosity.
Up until now I've only used it in .22Hornet and K-Hornet, not being a magnum pistol shooter. Recently I was gifted a four pound jug of it which added to what I already had gives me enough for a helluva long time of Hornet shooting, so naturally I've been casting sidelong glances at it when contemplating yet more cast bullet loads for .30-30, .32-40, .250-3000, etc.
I had a very scary incident with Lil Gun in 300 Blk. Used Hodgdon data. Subbed a 125 SST in for the 125 Nosler or whatever they published for. Just as velocity was starting to exceed H110, but well under published max, it went from totally normal to expanded primer pocket and case extruded into the ejector with a .2 grain change. I'm sure the bullet sub had some effects, but they are very similar bullets. And I may have screwed up, but I don't think so, the max listed load fills the case to the base of the neck. My hog hunt got cancelled anyway and I stopped there so who knows.
50 B&M Super Short LilGun is the best powder for it ....450 Bushmaster you can try the rest it will come out the best....works in the 350 Legend but there's some that it doesn't beat....357 Maximum in a T-C and mid weight bullets....357 Mag in a carbine its a top shelf powder....
Have found it doesn't like to be compressed you will loose velocity....
Brian Pierce wrote a few articles in Handloader about it years ago & in standard magnum revolvers it was picking up some popularity.
But then I think it’s fallen out of favor due to the competition Silhouette shooters damaging their FA revolvers with it. The back strap flame cutting and forcing cone Erosion and high working temperatures were its downfall.
Seems I read where FA put the word out, shooting Lil gun in their revolvers voided the warranty.
I have Lil gun, use 300 MP instead in my K-Hornet.
DF
Lil Gun proved to be one of the most accurate powders in my 458 SOCOM and the 500 S&W mag. H110 worked well too but Lil Gun just shot tighter groups.
Lil Gun gave highest velocity but poor accuracy in .25-20 for me. Actually, my experience has been that pushing the .25-20 beyond traditional velocities is not good for accuracy anyway which, I suspect, is a bullet issue.
I use it in my .500 S&W, great speed and accuracy. I don't shoot more than a cylinder full at a time with that anyway, so I don't worry about overheating.
I think I have used it in .41 Magnum, but don't have that information available here to confirm that.
Lil'Gun has become the go to powder for the 450 Bushmaster and 45 Raptor. I load for both but have yet to try Lil'Gun due to the reputation for burning out throats on FA revolvers. The Raptor operates at over 60K psi and this has been the zone where the FA problems developed. My Raptor has a Krieger barrel and given its cost, have been protective of it.
I know from another board that coyotewacker has used Lil'Gun with great success and has urged me to try it. Given that both the Bushmaster and Raptor have been in use for several years now with no reported Lil'Gun throat issues I suspect the conclusion that the cylinder gap/forcing cone may be the catalyst to the FA damage is accurate.
I am finally going to try Lil'Gun to see how my rifles like it.
It performed well in a 218 Bee Ruger No. 1 for me.
I have had problems with it in a 221 Fireball rifle and an XP100. Some very good groups with 45gr bullets, but also some blown primers with loads that were well under max listed. I have given up on it. Others have reported consistency issues with it too.
Jerry
Jerryv,
In contrast, I had great results with LG in my .221 Fireball Remington 700 Classic, especially with 40-grain bullets. In fact it turned out to be the standard powder in my rifle, though friends had some .221 rifles that preferred RL-7.
In a more general comment, I'm not as much of a handgun loony as some, though use them quite a bit. The two I often use LG in are a 4" Taurus .44 Magnum with 270-grain Speers and my 7-1/2 Blackhawk Bisley .45 Colt with 250-300 grain bullets. (Don't laugh at the Taurus--bought it after John Taffin gave one a thorough workout and declared it very good. That's how mine has worked out for a number of years now.)
Also have used it in the .17 Hornady Hornet, where it proved a little too fast-burning. Used it almost exclusively in the .22 Hornet since around 2000, until the last buying panic, when I switched to Alliant MP-300, to save my dwindling supply of Li'l Gun for loading the 28-gauge.
Most recently used it during the last month, while working up loads with super-dense tungsten shot in the 20-gauge, where it worked great.
Oh, and have also used LG in the .410, where it worked too. Surprise!
Here are some of my load notes I thought were special:
3) Hodgdon max load for LIL'GUN 158 gr. XTP
357 mag, 1.58" OAL, 15 gr.
a) Colt Police Positive 38 Special, 158 gr. LSWC
26 gr. [case full], CCI450 small rifle mag primers, fired hundreds,
kicks like a 44 mag
Then I repeated the work up with a chronograph in 2004
C) Colt Police Positive 38 Special 4" barrel:
1) cheap reloads mixed brand brass 158 gr. JHP, 830 fps
2) 18 gr. LIL'GUN 158 gr. XTP 1.59", WSPM, 1173 fps
3) 23.5 gr. LIL'GUN 158 gr. XTP 1.59", WSPM, 1155 fps
The more LIL'GUN I put in a 38 special, the harder it kicked, and the more noise it made... that did not mean the bullet was going faster.
That was embarrassing. My extra powder was going into extra muzzle fireball.
I wrote to Hodgdon and asked why they had no 158 gr cast loads for LIL'GUN and the 357 mag.
They wrote back that they tried it, but it was melting the bullet base.
My CZ527 22 Hornet loves Lil' Gun with most any 45 gr. bullet. And I just loaded up some 150 gr. 300 BO with it, but haven't had a chance to try those yet.
Been trying it for heavy .45 Colt revolver (Ruger Only) loads. It's been okay so far. But I'm not done experimenting with the rest of the powders I have on hand.
I may just save it for fast 250-260gr loads.
I've used it in both .45 Colt and .32 H&R Mag with good results.
Li'l Gun is very versatile in my experience. Have used it in shotshells in .410, 28 and 20 gauge, the last with hard tungsten shot. Have used it in rifle rounds including the .17 Hornet, .22 Hornet, .22 K-Hornet, .221 Fireball, .25-20, and .300 Ham'r, and in revolver rounds from .357 Magnum to .45 Colt. It has worked in all of them, though in some applications a little better than others. A good example is the .17 Hornet. It's not quite as good there as some other powders, but it can get you by.
Has anyone experimented with this powder in larger capacity cases for creating low velocity reduced loads? Presuming its burn rate is roughly in the class of 2400, 4227, etc.and is safe for applications that involve those powders could be erroneous I know. I also assume that since the large outfits that assemble load data don't list Lil Gun for said applications that there's something about it that gives wonky pressure curves in medium/large capacity cartridges- but it also could be that they just don't have the time to include every powder known to man for every cartridge known to man, and that's what has sown my curiosity.
Up until now I've only used it in .22Hornet and K-Hornet, not being a magnum pistol shooter. Recently I was gifted a four pound jug of it which added to what I already had gives me enough for a helluva long time of Hornet shooting, so naturally I've been casting sidelong glances at it when contemplating yet more cast bullet loads for .30-30, .32-40, .250-3000, etc.
Yeah, I used it for reduced loads in .223 with 40's. Started with .221 Fireball loads and worked up a bit past FB maximum. it was actually faster than i wanted so I dropped down to about 14 gr.
I like it for .300 Blackout supersonic loads with 125 gr Sierras.
There was an eight pounder in the reload shop today.
Works great in 450 Bushmaster and my 357 Maximum encore
I liked it in an old 221 FB I had.
Would really send 40s out the spout fast with 15g of powder.
Shot nicely in my 357, but turned the gun into a griddle. Will try it next in my Contender 357 MAX.
I liked it in an old 221 FB I had.
Would really send 40s out the spout fast with 15g of powder.
Li'L Gun was one of he two best powders in a Remington 700 Classic .221 FB I shot for a couple of years. (The other as Reloder 10-X, which also seems to work well in .221's.)
I tried loading Hornady 158 grain XTP in .357 magnum and followed Brian Pierce‘s loading data exactly. It blew a primer at the starting load, 17 grains iirc. My rifle is a Rossi 92 clone. Went back to 2400 in the rifle.
I tried loading Hornady 158 grain XTP in .357 magnum and followed Brian Pierce‘s loading data exactly. It blew a primer at the starting load, 17 grains iirc. My rifle is a Rossi 92 clone. Went back to 2400 in the rifle.
To shoot 26 gr LIL'GUN 158 gr in a 357 mag chamber, I had to resize the loaded ammo so it drops into the chamber.
lil gun makes my ruger 77 hornet sing, and it is my go to powder for 458 socom as well.
They say it was designed for the .410 and 28 ga....but, it makes the angels sing in .22 Hornet.
Sort of a +1 on that, as my Hornet has a K in front of it. It's my favorite powder for that cartridge.
I tried loading Hornady 158 grain XTP in .357 magnum and followed Brian Pierce‘s loading data exactly. It blew a primer at the starting load, 17 grains iirc. My rifle is a Rossi 92 clone. Went back to 2400 in the rifle.
My standard load is 17.6gr behind that bullet (what the Little Dandy throws with the “18gr” rotor). Pearce goes to 19gr, IIRC. Given that the published pressure with 18gr is what, 25,000 psi, perhaps there’s something else involved like your seating depth or chamber. I use CCI 550s and Starline brass.
Lil gun is my favorite in the 22 hornet rifle and 10" encore handgun with 35, 40 and 45 gr bullets.
In my 450 Bushmaster bolt action it is the best powder I tried. Fast and accurate
In my Marlin 357 carbine with 158 jacketed and 180 cast it is fast and accurate.
It was my goto powder in the 22 Hornet but surprisingly showed signs of pressure with the same load in my 218 Bee(1894 Marlin) I felt compressed it seemed to have a slower burn rate than loose in the case. List hornet load under 46gr Win HP.
I have a couple pounds to use in my 350 Legend rifle.
Ron
22 hornet and 357 max for me. All contender barrels. Works great.
I tried loading Hornady 158 grain XTP in .357 magnum and followed Brian Pierce‘s loading data exactly. It blew a primer at the starting load, 17 grains iirc. My rifle is a Rossi 92 clone. Went back to 2400 in the rifle.
My standard load is 17.6gr behind that bullet (what the Little Dandy throws with the “18gr” rotor). Pearce goes to 19gr, IIRC. Given that the published pressure with 18gr is what, 25,000 psi, perhaps there’s something else involved like your seating depth or chamber. I use CCI 550s and Starline brass.
I used the same components as you. I also use a Lee crimp die, perhaps to much crimp?
Perhaps too-deep seating--which makes far more difference in a traditional handgun than a rifle.
They say it was designed for the .410 and 28 ga....but, it makes the angels sing in .22 Hornet.
I was about to say that it makes the 22 Hornet sing!
I tried loading Hornady 158 grain XTP in .357 magnum and followed Brian Pierce‘s loading data exactly. It blew a primer at the starting load, 17 grains iirc. My rifle is a Rossi 92 clone. Went back to 2400 in the rifle.
My standard load is 17.6gr behind that bullet (what the Little Dandy throws with the “18gr” rotor). Pearce goes to 19gr, IIRC. Given that the published pressure with 18gr is what, 25,000 psi, perhaps there’s something else involved like your seating depth or chamber. I use CCI 550s and Starline brass.
I'm using 17.5 with 158 xtps in a marlin 1894 and Ruger 77. Both rifles love this load. Deer hate it!
There’s a YouTube video where Lil gun is used in the 357 mag. with 180 gr. hardcast to re-create the Buffalo Bore loads.
450 Bushmaster. No need to try any other powder.
But, has anybody loaded the .32-40 with it?
i use Lil'Gun for a Marlin .357 rifle....14.8 grains with the Hornady 180 gr XTP. Very accurate and one deer didn't lie it.
It’s been my “go to” powder for several 22H rifles, for many years.
Agreed on the 450 Bushmaster. No need to look any further for a powder. One large ragged hole every single time.
There was an eight pounder in the reload shop today.
Lifetime supply for the Hornet shooter
Like both my 77/357 and 6.5" BH revolver and what they can do.
More that whatever Lil'Gun will do to'em, when swapped for H110 in 158 and 180 gr. XTP and Sierra bullet loads.
More, would mean a lot more.
GR