I've been working on my wife's 257 Roberts now for a few years. I gave up on it a few times and now I'm back to trying to make it a shooter. I gave up on the rifle's barrel after trying bullets, powder, new stock, bedding etc. I recently had Randy Selby re-barrel it with a 1:9 Douglas SS barrel. It's a Ruger M77 action with a newly bedded Boyd's stock. Hopefully the old barrel will make a good tomato stake.
So, I saw some Nosler E-tips pop up on Midway and now have 150 new bullets to load up. I want to do this right from the start, so I'm curious to know if there's any experience out there I can learn from with this combo. Seating depth, powder, etc. I'm in California, so lead bullets are out of the equation.
The E-tips and the 257R have their quirks and combined, there's even more quirkiness.
!) +P vs non-+P load data available is a bit lacking and frustrating. The new Nosler manual says it's +P, but the load data looks the same as the old manual and hardly looks +P to me..
2) E-tip loading data from Nosler suggests beginning at starting loads and not surpassing mid-loads. Kind of screwy when combined with a sticky bullet and what seems to me underloaded load data from Nosler. We'd be well served to have E-tips with data developed from E-tips and not lead bullets.

I have Rem brass and Win +P brass. The Win brass was much harder to resize for some reason. Much harder on the upstroke even though the necks measure almost exactly the same. The Rem brass was smooth resizing. The Rem brass is more concentric than the Win brass and both brass are more concentric after fired once and resized.
I have all the recommended powders in stock, (which I found after scouring just about every website and forum on the internet about the 257R).

So any help is appreciated.

Here is JB's data from "Loads that work"

.257 Roberts:Like the 6mm Remington (the same case necked down), the .257 Roberts does fine with one powder. The traditional choice is IMR-4350, but Hodgdon’sH-4350 works equally well – and better in cold weather. Around 46grains works excellently with 100-grain bullets with velocity about3,000 fps, plenty for most deer hunting. For larger deer I’ve mostly used the 115-grain Nosler Partitionand 43.0 grains of H-4350. Velocities run right on the heels of the100-grain load noted above, and the bullet is more reliable on really big deer

I would follow Barnes recommendation on seating depth or Bergers. Most monos like some jump. I load them up to within a grain or grain and a half of loads for max loads for conventional lead bullets. I would try annealing the cases especially the Winchesters. The +p cases may have lower capacity so check this. I haven't found the Roberts to be finicky at all to load for. If you want really good cases neck down some RWS 7x57 mm brass, check for thick necks.

Hammer Hunters and Hybrid 100 V I use non +p brass in my modern Kimber and Rem 700. Not a gun writer here. Oh yes H4350 here too.

Have found E-Tips to shoot best when seated up to .1 inch deeper than lead-cored bullets, including Ballistic Tips.

Any of the 4350s (including Accurate's) will generally work with 100-grain bullets in the .257 Roberts, along with IMR4451, which is very similar in burn-rate. So will a bunch of other powders with a burn-rate on either side of the general 4350 will work as well. Have gotten excellent result, for example, with Ramshot Big Game and Hunter.

Years back when I got a gorgeous custom pre 64 M70, I started with the E-tip. Four hundred of them through the barrel and I could never get better than 1.5"-2". The 100 gr TTSX and a new, unveiled bullet is not much better. It wasn't until I started shooting the 115 BT and 120 PT that the accuracy came in. Looking at the Berger Twist Rate Stability Calulator, it became apparent why the lighter, mono-metal bullets shot so poorly. A 1:10" twist is not optimal for the longer bullets.

Alan

All good info. Due to the claimed "stickiness" of the E-tip and the lack of +P H4350 data for this combo I'll start around 43 grains of H4350 and work up .5 grains at a time to 46 grains and see what the chronograph says while checking for any pressure signs. I'm looking for ~ 3000 fps or a little more. 22" barrel. I'm hoping to high heaven I don't have to go thru 400 bullets to hit pay dirt. I've made the bullet companies quite wealthy while trying to get the stock barrel to shoot. I did order the barrel with a 1:9 twist with monometal bullets in mind.

That would cure explain it--if it was correct. But it's not.

One flaw in the Berger stability program is that it does not account for plastic tips. A while after the late Don Miller (the guy who developed the twist-rate formula the Berger program is based on) originally developed his formula, he discovered that because plastic tips don't weigh nearly as much as equal-length hollow-points or soft-points, they don't have nearly as much effect on bullet stability. Thus, measuring overall length of plastic tipped bullets and using the Berger formula results in incorrect predictions.

The JBM stability programs (www.jbmballistics.com) does include an input for the length of plastic tips. Perhaps not so oddly, Nosler and Barnes both list the overall length of the 100-grain E-Tip and TTSX as 1.195 inch. I just measured the length of the plastic tip on both bullets, which came out to around .15 inch. Running them through the JBM program gave a stability factor of close to 1.5 under standard conditions (59 degrees F. at sea level) which is quite stable. They've even more stable at higher elevations.

I also know that both bullets can shoot very well in 1-10 twist barrels because of using them in various .257 Roberts, .25-06 and .257 Weatherby rifles with 1-10 twists over the years. By "very well" I mean 3-shot groups at 100 yards of half an inch or even less.

Good info MD, thanks. FWIW, I ordered the 1:9 twist barrel in part because there were 2 boxes of 115 TSX bullets on the LGS shelf for at least 2 years. Maybe longer. After ordering the barrel I confidently went back to the store to buy them and they were gone. Such is life during a pandemic.

as has been posted already Hammer Bullets might be your best choice in your state , my 257 Robert likes Hammer Bullets ,i also like Reloader 17 powder best in my 257 Roberts. good luck,Pete53

Thanks Pete, I'll look into it. I have RL17 too.

your welcome, Hammer Bullets are expensive but these bullets shoot great and really look nice too.Pete53

RL 19 has been what I have used for 10+ years in my 257R. Has been great with 100-117grn projectiles.

You might try 100 gr TTSX over 47.0 grains of RS Hunter with Fed 210m primers. My old Ruger tanger 1:10 puts them into bughole groups at 100 yards tight enough that I never tried to measure them. Never bothered with E-tips. Happy Trails

I just looked them up on their website. I thought I knew a little about every bullet on the planet, but have never looked these up until now. Shed the petals on impact? Interesting concept. It might be worth looking into for my 338-06 as well.

Thanks davet, I have RL19 as well and if H4350 doesn't pan out I'll give that a try.

Yaddio,

The original Barnes X's tended to shed their petals on impact, but when they didn't, and were recovered, many hunters liked to brag on the 100% weight retention. Randy Brooks thought losing the petals would damage more tissue, but after hearing the 100% bragging for a while decided to change the heat-treatment so X's would tend to retain their petals more often--due to the old business suggestion that the customer is always right.

Randy told me this himself during a mule deer hunt, not long after the TSX was introduced.

Very interesting.

I deer hunt an area of Alaska known to be crawling with brown bear. I use a 300 Wby with 180 TSX's or more often a 338-06 with a 225 AB. I'm alway looking for a bullet that will not blow up deer meat, but will take down a brown bear if I'm put in a difficult situation. Maybe Hammer bullets? I'm jacking my own thread, but this could be another interesting topic.

Thanks, I've got a considerable amount of powder, but Hunter isn't one of them anymore. I'd grab some though if it ever popped up on a store shelf.

Pete53, which of the Hammer bullets did you settle on in 257R?

The best loads I've shot in my 257 used IMR4350. However, RE 15 also shot good groups with 87 and 85 grain bullets (Hornady and CT's). I didn't chronograph those loads.

Thanks Bugger. I 4350 is on the list of powders to try if H 4350 and RL 19 don't pan out. Hybrid too if I need to.

I think that 9-twist will make all the difference for you.

Hope so. Figure it can't hurt.

Couple observations working on my 257 brass today. The Win +P brass definitely feels harder than the Remington brass. I split two case necks on the Win +P brass resizing new brass. I wish I had annealed them before resizing. Like I mentioned before, it is much more difficult to re-size the Win +P, especially on the up stroke.

Another observation is that the the Win +P brass and the Rem brass weigh almost the same. Win +P = 174.6, Rem brass 175.5. This was a small sample test since I only used one of each, but I didn't feel like ruining a bunch of primers on an extensive test when filling with water. The Win +P brass held 58.2 grains of water and the Rem brass held 56.5. This was a bit counter intuitive since the +P brass is said to have thicker walls and therefore in theory hold less water.

I got a bit of variation when measuring cartridge base to ogive for the E-tips with the Stoney Point . I measured 5 total and results varied from 2.473 to 2.483 inches. This surprised me a bit.

I also spent a couple hours annealing the hard Win +P brass. I did the candle method I read on this forum. I hope this helps accuracy. Another observation that didn't occur to me until now is that when shooting with the Rem brass I got really good accuracy. A .579 group using the Sierra accuracy load with 52.5 grains of H4350 and 100 grain MK. When loading 100 TTSX with 46 grains of Hunter I got 1.5 inch. Of course the Match Kings are noted for great accuracy, but I loaded them to book OAL and just threw 5 rounds together to see what this barrel might be capable of. I might be on to something, time will tell, but when I load up these E-tips I'm gonna use the Rem brass and see what happens. Once I hit an accurate load, I'll try the Win +P again and see how they do.

cid:ACD4ABF3-A7D9-47E5-BD64-68A04E5ADBD9

On the topic of brass, I found that my cases (Nosler and WW) had a bit of bulging just above the web indicating undersized brass/oversized chamber. My Redding resizing die left the bulge after FL sizing. RWS 6.5x55 is approx .005" bigger at the case head. The OAL of the brass is a smidge short but no matter to me as it fits my chamber like a glove now.

In my rifle strangely, 120 A-Frames like to be -.010" off the lands while 120 Partitions like -.060"

Yaddio,

Annealing may help your brass, but the big accuracy deal with brass is necks that are consistent in thickness, varying not more than .001" at any point when measured all around the neck. Have not found recent Remington or Winchester brass all that consistent, so sort the cases for neck-thickness consistency before trying any handloads.

Also don't know if you're measuring the bullet run-out on loaded rounds. It should be no more than .005", about a 10th of an inch in front of the case mouth.

If you're not doing any of this, then trying different powders is pretty much useless.

Hah, got my Sinclair concentricity tool in the mail this week! The Remington brass is not too bad as to concentricity. Most only slightly above .001. Some cases out of spec and will cull. The Winchester, not so much. Much more variation. Do you recommend turning the case necks for uniform thickness? I've never done that but have no apprehension to get started. Just never needed to do it. Bullet runout on the Rems the same as brass runout or a bit more with some left over TTSX's that I tested, .0002 - .0003 avg.

On another note. The Win brass fits pretty tight in the chamber. I've got a bit of crush when lowering the bolt. The Rem brass fits nicely. All FL sized.

I've loaded 7 bullets with H4350 in .5 increments from 43 grains to 46 grains. Will stop shooting with pressure signs or high velocities. I used the Winchester brass to do this since I have so many more of them than the Rems. Just trying to get a feel for where I'm at for velocity with so called "sticky E-tips" and "fuzzy to me" non-P and +P load data. The plan is to start a bit below desired velocity and then to work up with the Rem brass, which has similar, if not slightly larger case capacity than the Win +P.

Having fun doing this, thanks for all the help.

Culled the cases today. The Win+P had about a 40% cull rate. The Remington brass about 5%. All culls were > .0001 measured with a Sinclair Concentricity tool.
Next step is Chronographing with H4350, the E-tips and Win+P brass 43 - 46 grains.

Interesting!

Am definitely curious about the results, partly because one of my batches of Remington brass, purchased a few years ago, was so soft it wouldn't extract with the same load we'd used in my wife's NULA rifle, 47.0 Hunter and the 100 TTSX. It was very uniform brass otherwise.

Some of the best .257 Roberts brass I've used lately is Hornady's--very uniform and tough--but unfortunately they don't offer it as a component, just in their factory ammo. Which has also been very good. Nosler .257 brass (and ammo) is also in the same class, but somewhat pricier.

I'll continue to post with the results. Looking for a Range Day soon.

I'm a bit disappointed with the Win brass. It's been my go-to in other calibers for years and I had a bunch for 257R.

I'd buy the Nosler or Hornady brass if there was any out there, but pickins are slim these days, but learning is occurring while culling and loading.

I have using them in a 25-284 the last two years with good results. Accuracy has been very good. I load them similar to TSX and actually caught one this fall. Shot was a little over 309 yards, the bullet entered on the point of front shoulder and broke the shoulder, took out 4 ribs and was in the off rear ham. Still weighed 100 grs and perfectly mushroomed.

Another powder to consider is R-16 it has been doing good things in my 25-06 and where the 4350s and R-17 work usually so does R-16. I like the temperature resistance and anti copper properties of R-16. In some cases the velocity is higher too.

The E-tips can be finicky, I would do load work up with a Ballistic tip or even a Sierra and once dialed in go back to the E-tip.

DBoston,

Did exactly that with a very accurate .270 Weatherby Magnum I had for a while. After working up a load with 130 Ballistic Tips, which averaged three in around 1/2" at 100 yards, I switched to the 130 E-Tip with the same load--and they did not shoot nearly as well.

But they did after some experimentation with seating depths. Turned out the E-Tip would also group three in 1/2"--but they had to be seated .1" deeper.

When I got the re-barreled rifle back, just to see what it could do, I threw 5 rounds together from the listed Sierra accuracy load, 100 grain Match King, Rem brass, 52.5 grains from an old can of H4350, (remember the cylindrical cans with the red plastic plug on the top), and got a .579 inch group. I loaded the bullet to max book length, 2.770 I think. So I'm thinking H4350 might do the trick. Since the accuracy load was pretty light I didn't need to work anything up. Those bullets will make great practice loads for my wife. Hmm, maybe I should incrementally load a few MKs up to 46 grains and see if the accuracy holds up.

Howdy Yaddio .........You DO mean 42.5 grs not 52.5 of H4350 .............Don't you ?

Yikes, yes, 42.5. Thank you.

Another mistake is the runout. I added an extra 0. should be .001 and .002. Not .0001 and .0002.

Headed to the range on Monday to do some more testing.

25 caliber 128 gr. Hammer bullet and they really shoot well. for the money i feel this bullet is better than Barnes bullets in this size. plus this Hammer bullet might be easier to buy also ? sorry i did not get back sooner but Jan.28th i had a back surgery ,was in hospital for 5 days and i am still home bound but i have had some ruff days too. hope you like these Hammer bullets,Pete53

Hi I,m also in that state. But have not loaded the 100gr Nosler E-CO bullet I have. My 257 Roberts Model 70 just loves 115gr Nosler partitions

and that is what I have taken all my game with. I started out with IMR 4350 like most others. After a few years I tryed RL22 velocity jumped 200 FPS.

So then I tryed MRP same thing even more accurate. Then RL26 a little less accuracy even more speed. Now I,m using RL23 best of both worlds.

So I suggest you try some of the slower powders, especially if you hunt out of state like I do. One more thing give RL17 and RL16 a try.

Thanks and get well soon.

Great info, thanks.

During my day filled with ground squirrel whacking, I took a break and pulled out my chronograph and tested some single loads with H4350 and 100 grain Nosler E-tips in my wife's 257 Roberts.

I had loaded single loads from 43.0 grains up thru 46.0 grains in .5 grain increments, hoping to find a safe to shoot load up around 3000 fps. I was a bit surprised to see the velocities I got from a 22 inch barrel. 2.850 COAL, .145 off the lands, Win +P case and WLR primer.

43.0 = 2993 fps
43.5 = 3032 fps
I stopped here and decided not to shoot the rest of the loads, especially going as high as 46.0, which I believe would have been over pressure.

All I want for this rifle it to accurately shoot ~ 3000 fps. This is plenty fast for this cartridge and will not have excessive muzzle blast or recoil for my wife's shooting ability.

It seems the E-tips are indeed a bit sticky.

Next is to shoot some groups with 43.0 and 43.5 and see how she shoots.

Those velocities are by no means "hot" in a 22" .257 with 100-grain bullets. Generally 3100 fps is possible at pressures around 60,000 PSI--which is a little less than even the so-called +P pressures--but a lot less than .270 Winchester SAAMI pressures. But whatever....

Yaddio -

Nosler's Load Data (https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/257-roberts/) puts a 100gr bullet at 3007fps when using 43.5gr of H4350.

It looks like you're right on track if all you wanted was 3000fps.

I think that's IMR 4350 powder listed on the Nosler website?

Agree. I think I could have elaborated a bit more.
43.5 grains of H4350 with a 100 TTSX today chrono'd at 2780. This surprised me, kinda low.
46.0 grains of H4350 with a 100 TTSX gave me about 3080, (same gun with a different barrel, so a bit of an inconsistent variable)
43.5 grains of H4350 with a 100 E-tip gave 3032 fps.
This lead me to believe that the E-tip might be sticky and gets higher pressure with less powder. At least similar velocities with less powder.

Next thing to do is just shoot some groups at these levels and see what it's doing for accuracy. If it doesn't group I'll try to go up a bit higher.

Dang, you're right! Just goes to show, never believe everything you see on the internet!