My memory is hazy on this; I need a refresher.

If I remember correctly, flat base bullets are preferable for game unless there is a compelling reason to use otherwise. I just don't remember the details.

Why does one eschew boattails?

Generally higher B.C. in most cases. Easier to seat maybe. Happy Trails

Shaman,

Flat base bullets are inherently more stable in flight than boattails. So, in calm conditions, for ranges out to a couple hundred yards, in general you can expect better groups from flat base bullets.

Boattails have a higher BC, which at longer ranges can off set the advantages of the flat base when you look at a total Circle of Error Probability (CEP). The exact range where this trade off occurs depends on the differences in BC, but in windy conditions, the additional BC can make a huge difference.

Like most shooting related decisions, it's a trade off and each has to decide what best applies to his hunting/shooting conditions.

shaman,

One theory is that flat-based cup-and-core bullets tend to retain their cores better than boattails. That was even promoted by some gun writers, back in the day when most big game hunters used cup-and-cores, rather than pay for expensive "premium" bullets like Nosler Partitions.

I used to think this too, when I didn't have much experience, after seeing a 130-grain Sierra GameKing .from a .270 Winchester lose its core upon hitting the ribcage of an eating-size mule deer buck at 100 yards. Found the jacket just inside the entrance hole when skinning the deer, but the core kept penetrating and killed the deer.

Years later, when I had several hundred big game kills recorded in my hunting notes, both mine and hunting companions I'd been standing beside, I analyzed the results and found that just about the same number of boattails and flat-bases had lost their cores.

Some rifles don't shoot boattails well, but in my experience very few. Probably this is due to a slightly large-diameter chamber throat allowing powder gas blow-by.

Somebody is bound to say "boattails come apart easier than flat bases", inaccurately treating them as monolithic categories while neglecting various construction differences.

I see MD got to his enter button before I got to mine.

If you are shooting game with a machine gun at extended distances, I am given to understand that they provide superior performance.

Thanks for the quick come-back.

In years past, I regularly substituted BT's when I couldn't find FB's. Internet sales pretty much did away with that, but now I see shortages causing one to think about things on a make-do basis.

I can't say I've had an instance of bullet failure with either, but then my habits are pedestrian.

I seriously doubt that over time, you could tell any significant difference between flat-base and boattail bullets on game at the ranges you shoot, Shaman. There are other factors of bullet construction that matter far more, such as lead alloy hardness, or jacket thickness.

Years ago I bought into the claim boatails are more prone to "bananafication". and got to using mostly flat based bullets. Like Mule Deer stated, some rifles don't like them accuracy wise. Where I hunt, the shooting distance doesn't give boatails an advantage. YMMV

GR

That is an outstanding link.

Key take-away for me:

“c. For bodies of high fineness ratios, care should be exercised in designing boattailed configurations because of significant effects of boattailing on aerodynamic characteristics relative to square based designs. I^fegnustorquecoefficientappearstobeparticularlysensitive to boattailing, so much so that an improper design of the boattail may make the configuration dynamically unstable.”

- I guess I won’t be buying short boattails with too pointy of a tail -

Above my pay grade !

Part of the issue and prejudice for me was Speer bullets - this was awhile ago. The flat based bullets were "Hot Core" and the Boat tails were not. I think they still may be that way. So back then I avoided boat tails.
Fast forward a few decades:
I have a couple of rifles that shoot flat base bullets much more accurately than boat tails - a couple 30-06's and my Savage 99 300 in particular. In the Savage the difference is about three times the size of groups with boat tails. In my '06's it isn't quite as pronounced. But a couple are able to shoot very small groups with flat based bullets.
I suppose it really is a moot point for my deer hunting as I rarely shoot deer at more than a hundred yards and 1/2" groups or 3" groups wouldn't make a difference. But for antelope I often will shoot much further than that.
As far as performance on game since those days when I was younger, I have not noticed a difference. Perhaps when I did see a performance difference, I didn't see it as a boat tail vs. flat base bullets issue, but just a certain manufacturer's bullet - I believe that is more valid than flat vs boat tail.

Boattails are a lot more popular due to the higher ballistic coefficient fad these days, but if you're not shooting at very long range, the BC advantage doesn't amount to much. I've seen very good accuracy with a number of boattail bullets, but if I have a choice in initial load development, I'll try the flatbase first. A couple of examples I can think are the Sierra 117 GameKing vs. the 117 ProHunter and the 180 GK vs. the 180 PH. I've experienced at least slightly better accuracy with both aforementioned PHs in comparison with the GKs. I think both PHs have been discontinued. Most people just prefer the boattails.

Never had a bullet shed a jacket as far as I know. BT bullets are a long range tool AFAIC and there is no need for such things in my AO. That said I’ve never had a cast bullet shed a jacket.

I tend to buy flat base in standard cup and core bullets as when I started hand loading 25 years ago a box of 100 bullets (Hornady, Sierra, Speer etc.) were about $6 -$7 cheaper than the boattails. It wasn't about the boattails losing their cores. But then I loaded a few boat tail bullets (Sierra 165gn HPBT .308 in my .30-06 and 150gn SPBT 7mm seconds in my 7x57) and never really noticed any difference. Some bullets are only available in boat tails (Ballistic Tips, Accubonds, Sciroccos) so no real choice. But if given the choice with two equivalent bullets, a boat tail and a flat base, I well tend to take the flat bases.

Just because.

Most of the time I shoot deer and antelope thru the ribs side to side under 300 yards. Most of the time the bullet exits so you don t get alot of evidence on whether that the bullet is completly intact. When I do find jacket pieces on the hide most of time it's from a boattail design. When the occasion arises that if I want to get that animal I have to take the angle offered , I allways aim for the FAR shoulder and flat based bullets that are caught seem to weather that better than boattails everytime for me. I tell what I ve found ?you do whatever trips your trigger..Mb

Years ago when boat tailed hunting bullets were starting to be common there were many saying that bore erosion was increased by boat tailed bullets. I settled on loads using flat based bullets and used them through the mid nineties. I can't say that any hunting I did through those years would have been more successful had I been using Boat tailed bullets.

I once used 300 grain boattails, estimated impact speed at less than 2650 fps on a broadside deer. Bullet failed to exit, only found jacket shards! Same results on a bear of about 250 to 300 pounds. And.....these were reputed to a “dangerous game” bullet! What a friggen joke! When fired side by side to a 270 Hornady Interlock......couldn’t even find “shards” of the 300 grainer! Swore at them and off of them....23 years ago!

Maybe they’re good for small varmints and paper.....but, I guess I’ll never know! memtb

i used for the very first time this fall 2020 , Berger 115 gr. VLD 25 caliber bullets out of my 257 Weatherby Mag. at max. powder capacity with RL. 25 from Berger reloading book. shot 2 very nice bucks bullets went thru heart and lungs out the other side of deer . both 1 shot kills, 1st buck dressed around 170 lbs at 150 yards. 2nd buck dressed and weighed 205 lbs. shot at 100 yards so Boattail bullets for me made today work just fine.

Look at your 22 caliber match bullets. Usually 52 or 53 grain bullets. One is a flat base one is a boat tail.
Easy to learn early on which your barrel prefers for accuracy. Hasbeen

For targets( limited amounts) with my 308 tactical, I use both Nosler CC and Sierra MK, 168 gr. boat tail bullets. I am consistently shoot dime size or smaller groups at 100 yards. It holds that consistency out 400. I do not hunt big game with this rifle. For coyotes I prefer the 160 flat base SP. I get consistent instant kills with them.

Well said! We were sold a bill of goods, the premise that we needed sagebrush country bullets all the time, every place...when it's pretty obvious that 75% of the game meat harvested is done so in cover or broken terrain at less than 200 yards. It's ok though, it's six of one, half dozen of the other. Kinda like the demise of the poor old round noses. Cup and core round noses are good reliable bullets with decent trajectories to 300...but the market trends went with spitzers, then boat tail spitzers, then .600 bc rocket ships. Overkill when you could pretty safely say, over half the hunting population couldn't put 3 shots offhand on a 9 inch pie plate at 300.

Jack O'Connor mentioned this in one of his books. With the improvements in metallurgy in the 60+ years since he wrote about it, I wonder if there is any validity to this.

I believe ASTM steel standards were adopted nearly a hundred years ago. 4140 is 4140. Advancements in the knowledge of metallurgy are inarguable. Advances in quality that match the the advances in knowledge...not so much. Ask welders...ask machinists that work in the industry. Modern, generally imported steel, even at my end user level is terrible. Cavities, slag inclusions, hard inclusions are common and are readily apparent in welding and cutting. Maybe something to do with the millions of tons of scrap we exported . A couple of fellows with borescopes have noted serious defects in stainless steel barrels sent in for rebores right here on the 'fire recently. Which, sorry, has nothing to do with boat tails.

Overkill when you could pretty safely say, over half the hunting population couldn't put 3 shots offhand on a 9 inch pie plate at 300.



I think that you could “SAFELY” say that over 1/2 the hunting population could not put 3 shots (consecutively) offhand into 9” plate @ 100 yards! memtb

Here in Alaska I have been using the Barnes TTSX bullets in my .338 and 30-06, they have a boat tail. Before I started using them 4 years ago all my Barnes X and Nosler Partitions were flat based bullets. I don't think the moose and caribou I shoot care if it is a boat tail or flat base blowing through their lungs. I have not shot past 200 yards in years, which is fine with me. I have some 175 grain LRX bullets for my 30-06, the ballistics of one of them going 2,800 fps mv is pretty good, on paper.

I don't see much of and advantage to using them for ranges I hunt at. But, if one is regularly shooting past 400 yards then why not use them. Good binoculars and good bullets, we are blessed with and abundance of them.

Yeah, the monolithic bullets generally don’t come apart—BT or not. This .338 225gr TTSX went through about four feet of flesh and bone. It didn’t come apart, but contrary to advertising, it did lose about 12% of its mass along the way. Weighed in at 197gr after the event.

Pretty sure there's something in about all of us that makes us want the tough shot on really large game. The shot that lesser riflemen and lesser rifles and loads just can't handle.

Seems like an entire industry grew up around writing about such things, and producing rifles and loads for all the great riflemen taking the important shot. Most of the readers and most of the hunters shoot whitetails. And a whole lot of those whitetail hunters bought in to the tough bullet thing.

I'm inclined this way myself. And this despite the fact that just about all of my life's experience tells me that any decent shot carrying a 22-250 or a .243 is well equipped for most rifle chores.

Before I get stomped into a mudhole by the moose, elk and big bear hunters, let me say that my only elk was taken with a .30 caliber rifle. Then back in the late 90s I shot a spring black bear in montana. I'd read about all the grizzlies in the area, and wanted to be prepared for the "inevitable charge". I took a 30-06 loaded with 200 grain partitions.
But the guy we hunted with was from the area, and we met several of his friends that week. They all carried Remington cor-lokt ammo, and every one carried a Remington 700 7RM.
Is there anything wrong with the 06 and a 200 partition? I had loaded up a box of 50. Used a couple to adjust my zero. Used 1 on the 350 lb black bear. Used 1 on an antelope later that fall. Shot the rst of them at coyotes and they did just great.
So... No, there's nothing wrong with heavier rifles and tougher bullets.

On the other hand I've broken the off shoulder of a largish mulie with the Sierra 6mm 85 bthp. Also took my first ever black bear with the same load. A max load of IMR 4895 and the 85 bthp was my go-to hunting load for a number of years and took a lot of deer and antelope, as well as a few hogs with it.
I've heard that load described as a ping pong ball, powder puff, and a flash bang. I have nothing bad to say about it. And for many, that specific load was THE accuracy check load for about any .243 rifle.

In some of my heavier rifles, I graduated to the ballistic tip bullet. It's a boat tail in profile anyway. I hear and see others claiming they'd never use a ballistic tip on big game.
I saw one of the original ballistic tips used on an elk killed with a .300 Winchester. There was evidence that the bullet expanded quicker than what I'd like. But that bull died as quickly as most anything I've seen, and with one shot.
And over the past 25 years what I've seen from ballistic tips is about the best performance i could ever expect from a hunting bullet

A friend explained to me that similar to the throat, an eroded or non uniform barrel crown will allow gases to escape more erratic when a boat tail exits the barrel vs a flat base.

He also stated that his belief is a Nosler partition can " seal" the back of the bullet / barrel interface due to the lead being exposed caudally.

I have had a barrel or three recrowned by a gunsmith and it seemed boattails grouped better. But my observations are anecdotal at best.

I agree and would go even further 80%!

My post had a serious error...I meant to say 200 yards...from my days helping to host NRA Sporting Rifle High Power. These events brought out an above average bunch of shooters, but in 8 or 9 seasons, I don't ever recall anybody ever shooting a perfect score in offhand. IIRC, about a 3 1/2" ten ring and a 13 inch aiming black. I include myself in the criticism of lack of skill in real life shooting positions. The whole point being, it's not the bullet, the group measured in 3 decimal places fired from the bench, the latest and greatest in optics, the last tenth of a grain of wonder powder...in real world hunting, it's the man. Not that I don't appreciate the revolutionary advances in our sport, I do, but in traditional hunting rather than wildlife sniping, it all comes back to the man.

That certainly would make it more difficult.....regrettably, now I probably fall into the couldn’t hit that 9” plate consecutively @ 200! memtb

Have a friend who has a long range muzzle loader, 50 cal. He recently shot a nice bull elk at 557 yds. Nothing new. People shot a long ways with flat based bullets long before modern boattails. Sometimes we just need to be reminded that maybe we might just overthinking things abit. Of course that takes the fun out of things. That’s why we’re loonies, always chasing perfection. Happy Hunting

I thought that Sporting Rifle High Power would be fun, but haven't been able to generate enough interest around here for it. BTW, it uses an SR target with a 4" X ring, 7" ten ring, and 13" nine ring and aiming black.

Unless things have changed-I don't keep up with it like I used to,but one of the things I noticed when hanging around serious short range benchrest shoots(100-300 yard) was that nobody used boat tail bullets-100% flat base.

Ya, you haven't kept up. They've been using boattail bullets in short range benchrest for close to fifteen years.

I'm not shooting past 100 yds without a tree limb, backpack, bipod, or shooting stick to shoot off of.

You are right! A lot has changed-I went to the NBRSA website-not very well updated,the only match results I could find were the 2019 Cactus Classic-of the top twenty in Light Varmint 25% used BT's and 20 % in Heavy Varmint. Not a bunch but way more than in the late 80's- back when it seemed like everyone shot a Stolle-I see that has sure changed! I think I am getting old!


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