I built myself a 308 a few weeks back and yesterday got around to shooting it. I used Ramshot Big Game, 168 Sierra MK, Federal brass. I used WLRM primers. I always get better results with magnum primers when using ball powder. Here is what the chrono says.
Charlie

Good report, thanks! What's your barrel length on this 308?

66 centimeters.
Charlie

How many shots per string?

I would defer to your knowledge and experience in all things rifle related...but smarter people than me (there are many) have often remarked that ballistic uniformity does not always translate to accuracy. What say you?

Share your load, pls?

Charlie and I have talked about this some, and another reason I like Big Game is that it has proven to be the most temperature-resistant of the Belgian-produced Ramshot rifle powders in my testing. In fact, in those tests it has ranked up there with other powders advertised as temp-resistant, in a wide variety of cartridges.

I keep a running list of the handloads used in my rifles and Eileen's, and more of our loads use Big Game than any other single powder. This is also because the burn-rate (slightly faster than H4350/IMR4350) is suited to so many cartridges.

Charlie, if you were to take the time and effort to make sure of such things as case tumbling, flash-hole reaming and primer pocket cleaning, the amount of humidity in your loading area, the phase of the moon, and a few things of that nature you could get that variation in speed down to something acceptable.

I've pretty much settled on Big Game in my 30-06 with 165 Nosler PT. Good velocity and accuracy.

Jordan
10 shot strings.
Charlie

flintlocke
Chronograph numbers and accuracy don't always go hand in hand. I have witnessed several loads with 60 fps swings that grouped really well. And some like the loads shown here that didn't group well. but.....aint there always a but...if I get a load with a really low deviation, I have always been able to play with seating depth to make it shoot well. A few times, just for testing, I have lengthened the throat and it worked. Put no faith that a low SD means absolute accuracy, and put no faith that it wont.
Charlie

That’s impressive.

5SDAD
Certainly prepping brass is important. Sorting sometimes helps a lot, sometimes not. I have learned that annealing is sometimes more important than all others combined. Sometimes not. But nowadays, if something isnt working, I anneal. I pay particular attention when seating bullets. If one feels too easy or too hard, put it aside. Bullets seated straight in the case does wonders. And a good barrel never hurts.
Charlie

Ballistic uniformity certain lessons vertical dispersion at long range

I use a little Big Game every now and then.

The last rifle I brought home was a 308. In
the past, I used a lot of Varget. In times to come I may look to Big Game. This one dotes on Federal Gold Metal Match. I realize I have much to learn, but the 308 envelope leaves a margin for error.

My cousin and his son use the same projectile from a 30-06 but we used Ramshot Hunter/WLR/Fed brass instead. Right @ 3K FPS and excellent accuracy from a Tikka T-3 and a SC M70 Supergrade.

I use Hunter in my 06 with 180 grain bullets. Works really well.

I appreciate your verification of what I've recorded. I began chronographing in 1981 with an O 33 and I still use it. Somewhere about 2013 or 2014 I updated the skyscreens with the III s.

I have at least 5 (five) notebooks of graphing & groups of a large number of rifles - in many cartridges & calibers.

I DO like a low SD but it is NOT a reliable indicator of accuracy.

Thank You

Jerry

I use Big Game in my 7mm08 to push 140 Accubonds. Best powder I’ve found for that rifle. I just wish I could find more of it as I’m about out...

I think you've sold more than you could ever use....

Your groups, stats and dead critters are nice sales props...

DF

I have found Big Game to work well in .30-06, as have several other buds. My go-to load for .257 Roberts is Hunter. I saw some new label powder of both flavors and scooped up a couple extra pounds each. I’m not buying anything else until price and availability returns to near normal, which is to say maybe never. I have enough to stock my estate sale. Happy Trails

Have found Hunter to work very well with 100-grain bullets in the .257 Roberts, but Magnum works better with 115-120 grain bullets. In fact I was once told by Doug Phair, the owner of Western Powders until it was recently sold to Hodgdon, that his standard load for 120s in the .257 was filling a case to the mouth with Magnum, then seating a 120 Partition seated on top.

Tried it, and it shot very well. In fact, Eileen used it for a while in her NULA .257. Muzzle velocity was around 2950 fps.

I like it!

As you say, if there is low SD, best as I can recall, I have always been able to find accuracy somewhere.

I agree.

I had really good accuracy with Big Game in the 7mm-08 with 162gr bullets. ES under 10 for one rifle.

I’m down to my last 20 lbs.

I know we’ve talked about this but I’ve forgotten. Could you post your recipe, including muzzle velocity? I have a bunch of 162 eldx I use in my 7mm Rem Mag and I keep wondering about them in my 7mm-08s.



P

Damn, you're getting low!

Damn, you're getting low!

Brilliantly written! That's my goal too, LOL.
From the "I'd rather be lucky than good" department:
I had just that thought back in late 2019/early 2020. Being newly retired, I figured "why not just lay in a supply of enough of all the stuff I load with (and some I might want to later), sufficient to last the rest of my loading days." I dropped some coin in the process, but everything I wanted was available and as an FFL I was mostly paying wholesale, so all was good. My wife is a bit of a "prepper" so she was very supportive of the idea, which always helps.

Then the current insanity hit and I ended up looking a lot smarter than I really am...

Cheers,
Rex

Mr. Sisk
Have you noticed how clean burning big game is?
I find it to be exceptionally clean burning in the 6.5...
.
17:pound IBS 1000 yard bench gun.
300 SAUM.
Berger 200g20x .
60.3 Hunter.
CCI-BR2.
I have shot this or pretty darn close to this for five barrels now.
It works very well.
Dave

Thanks John,
I will give Magnum a try with those stubby 115 Partitions from SPS.
Just to clarify, did Doug mean filling the case flush to the mouth, or to where the neck meets the shoulder?

Thanks again,
Rex

Good thing I just bought 4 pounds of the stuff. It works great in the 7mm08, but I'm probably going to try it in other things as well...

Thanks, John. I found an accuracy load with Hunter and 100 gr TTSX for my old Ruger .257 Roberts that clocks just over the magic 3k. I’d use that combo on everything but big elk. I’ve got 2 other “lucky “ rifles for that task. I’m going to try Hunter in my 7x57 with the 145 LRX along with RL16, which shows some promise. Best, Steve

I picked up another CZ 550 Varmint in a 308 Win with a 26" barrel recently.I made up a few test loads for it before heading out to the range,I made up a couple with Big Game just to see what kind of velocity I could get with it.I usually use Winchester brass that has a tad bit more case capacity,but I had some new Nosler cases prepped so I used them.I loaded 51.0grs of Big Game,WLRM Primer,with a 168gr Nosler Ballistic tip.This load is a compressed in the Nosler case and I was kind of surprised I was able to fully seat my bullet.I got 2808fps with my magneto speed,which was more than I expected to get.It is right about the same as I get with my other 308 Win loads 44.5grs of TAC,45.0grs of IMR 4895,45.5grs of Varget or 46.5grs of Accurate 4064 with a 168gr Ballistic Tip.I'll have to some more testing using a Winchester case next time.They have about .5 gr greater case capacity.I think I can get a really good load with 50.5grs or 51.0grs.

TRex,

You are a wise fellow to have stock on hand. I’m good for everything short of a zombie apocalypse and maybe even that.

I have multiple hunting buds clamoring for all kinds of hunting ammo that’s just not available and several asking me to handload some for them. They furnish components and I’ll help them out.

Happy Trails

For the 7mm-08 with 162gr AMAX, I used 43gr of Big Game with a Fed 215, and got 2600 FPS. Just note that this was before the plant burned down, or whatever happened back then that stopped the supply for awhile. I switched to 40gr of RL15 then, with the Fed 215, and was getting 2630 FPS with similar accuracy but slightly higher ES. No noticeable difference out to 600 yards though. Both loads shot great.

Pharmseller
With this particular load, I was running 47 grains.
Charlie

JWall
Yes. My experience agrees with yours. Taking this one step further, when measuring pressure, low deviations on pressure don't necessarily mean good accuracy. But it is a good place to start.
Charlie

dave7mm
Seems Big Game does burn pretty clean. And at night doesn't seem to have as much muzzle flash as other powders do.
Charlie

I've had great experiences with several of Ramshot Powders, good stuff.

Anyone have a good load for Big Game in a 308 with 165/168g bullets? Looks good in the manuals, just haven't got around to trying it yet.

Just work up to the listed Ramshot maximums--but like Charlie, I've generally found that magnum primers improve accuracy with Big Game a LOT, even in relatively small cartridges like the .308.

The first cartridge I used it in, over 20 years ago, was the .220 Swift. With standard primers 3-shot groups ran around 1-1/2" at 100 yards. With Federal 215s they shrank to 1/2".

So glad I have a fresh 8-pounder of Big Game right now ....

Here in Louisiana, the locals would say you don't have bright enough light, not burning enough candle power...



DF

I've had good luck with all Ramshot powders. Here is their online load data https://www.ramshot.com/load-data/

Did you find that to be the case with your published Big game 9.3x62 loads ?

If I recall correctly, the primer in the Big Game load with 286-grain bullets is the CCI 200, which apparently works very well, even at zero Fahrenheit. I would suspect the reason is the charge is pretty compressed. (Well, that and the fact that my CZ 550 shoots just about anything accurately.)

But if a Big Game load doesn't shoot well with standard primers, I try a magnum primer. So far it's shrunk groups every time.

Charlie brother we need to have a talk. I am really glad you are here, and I thoroughly enjoy your content. Can you explain how in the hell someone who lists their location as Texas and Kentucky answers that question in centimeters? Dear God, my spell checker is rejecting that word.

You just push the shift key when you're typing in the numbers and it converts them for you.

Yeah, I had to do the math too - a red hair under 26 good ol' American inches...;o)
I think Mr. Sisk might have been messing with us.

jmd205,

Just looked at my handloading notes, and the primer in the 286-grain 93x62 Big Game load is indeed the CCI 200--which is a relief, thanks to confirming my memory. That load averages well under an inch in my CZ 550 for 3-shot groups at 100, but as noted above, have had magnum primers make a major difference in accuracy in many other cartridges with Big Game.

Holy moly brother, that’s hot! Max charge for 150 eldx is 46.2 and you’re using the 162 at 47 grains?

No pressure signs?

Pharmseller
Max charge is 51 grains according to Ramshot.
Charlie

Paulbarnard
It has a metric name so it needs a metric barrel length !!!
Charlie

Some of ya'll mentioned Big Game in 9.3x62. This powder works really well in this case. Works good in 9.3 BS. I have used it with lighter bullets in 338 Win mag. For the most part, it works anywhere 4350 does.
Charlie

Just making sure, we’re talking about 162 Eldx in a 7mm-08 with Big Game powder, right? I looked at Ramshot’s load data and didn’t see 51 grains listed for either 150 or 160 grain bullets.


P

Only one? What’s wrong with you?

I only have one 8 pounder, too.

But, I just use it in my 7-08, '06 and may try it in my .375 H&H and 338-06.

I don't sprinkle it on my corn flakes....

It lasts longer that way...

DF

Nothing gets the old motor running quite like a teaspoon of Big Game in your oatmeal.

Big Game is my favorite powder in my 338-08 with 200gr Silver Ballistic Tips and Accubonds.

Hard to beat that one. Gonna give it a try in my .338-06.

I've posted this before. My HVA '06 restoration project gun. I saw your 59 gr. BG. I believe your group is a tad tighter. I was frankly surprised by this one. Wasn't expecting this from a vintage HVA with pencil thin barrel. It was full length bedded, which may have helped. Ralph Council hand made bench rest quality bullets don't hurt. Never tried them on game, although Ralph says they do well on WT's and such. Didn't clock it, but it should be running around 3,100 fps or so.

Will just add that I've never been down to one 8-pounder of Big Game in the last decade.

This load has been working well in several 30-06's.168gr Ballistic Tip,Win brass,WLRM primer,55.5grs Big Game,a little over 2900fps

You whoreder ( LOL)
Jerry

Happiness is a big jug of Big Game,especially during these times.

At least he has powder...

DF

+1

DF

Mule Deer, how has this, and past, shortages affected your profession? Seems to me it might limit what you could write if you have trouble getting components for projects/article topics.

Pharmseller
I was referring to my 308 load.

From P 1




This ^^ is the reason I haven't used any Big Game.

In another thread I posted a very similar pic of this empty can.



Before these political "panic shortages" I began stocking up on components when the price of powder went to 15-16 $ per pd.
I began buying more than I needed before the price got ridiculous.

The # 1 on the cap & can indicates the first lot of new powder I bought.
That lot # is E940C19 over L6564

I just dug around thru my graphing notebooks and found that 1997 was when I bought & graphed that lot.
I have several pounds of IMR 4350 * and * a few years back I bought 4 lbs. of H 4350.
I am still good.

I've enjoyed this thread, learning about Big Game. Good Luck Guys


Jerry

BG meters great, burns clean, typically produces accurate loads, and often a bit faster than the competition.

What's not to like. The only down side is finding some. These days, you use what you have or can find.

It's not too unlike by F-150 buds who sniff at my Z-71. I tell them I'll drive the Chevy until I can afford an F-150....



DF

The shortages have been interesting, but really haven't affected my work that much. I have always tended to keep more components on hand than the average handloader, so am usually sufficiently stocked with powder and primers. The components I have had occasional problems finding are brass and bullets, especially recent introductions because even the manufacturers don't have any on hand.

Occasionally I can find some at a local store--one in particular, because it's probably the least-popular reloading supply place around, since it's part of a local chain that sells everything from skateboards to running shoes. As a result the reloading section is relatively small--and the shelves go from the floor to around 7 feet high, and are relatively small and deep. As a result the lower shelves often have stuff ending up in the back, where nobody looks! Have found hard-to-get stuff like 250-grain 9.3mm Nosler AccuBonds and 6.5-300 Weatherby brass in the back of those lower shelves!

Copy

Mule Deer, good to hear. I enjoy your writing, a lot.

Thanks!

Yep, JB has the habit of confounding certain Fire contributors with facts....



DF

Facts? Facts? We don’t need no stinking facts! 😊

Ha!

DF

John, Charlie or Anyone,

Has anyone here developed a good load with Big Game and 100 - 115 grainers in the .257AI? TIA

I did, this morning, and Magnum worked great with those bullets. Not really germane to this thread but I wanted to thank Mule Deer for that suggestion.
I'll post my results from this morning on those two threads that got started specifically about these .257 115gr Partitions with the .525 ogive.

Thanks again for the suggestion,
Rex

Just picked up 5 lbs. at Midsouth Shooters Supply. Looking forward to trying this in 7mm-08, 308, 338 FED, and 338-06 👍. Have really enjoyed this thread......

I'm honestly at the point that I'd trade the Big Game I have. I haven't figured out where it's "magic dust" for me yet, and I'm getting tired of trying. YMMV

Also, it is a PITA (those microscopic ball bearings go everywhere!) If you're using an auto dispenser type scale.

John,

Would you have good charge weight recommendations for Magnum and 115 - 120 Partitions in the .257ai? Thanks.

I would start with +P data from Ramshot, and add powder until your .257 Ackley Improved gets 100 fps more.than their listed loads. That's about what I found was the difference between the standard .257 and .257 AI

That is, if it has a 24" barrel.

I may have missed it, but has anyone tried BG in a .338-06 and with what bullets?
Going to work up some loads with using 225 & 250 PT's for an up-coming (hopefully) moose hunt.

Teeder
I have used Big Game in 338-06 and the Ackley. Works well.
Charlie

Go with the flow....

Don't use an auto dispenser with that kinda powder, use a powder measure. It flows like water, very consistent drops.

Those "microscopic ball bearings" can't bounce around thru a powder measure, they just drop in the case.

Coarse powders like Vv n-570 work great thru an auto dispenser. Save it for them.

DF

Runs great through the auto trickler.
Neil Jones micro measure thrown charges are good enough to hold there own at 1000 yards.
Dave

Dave,

Am curious: How's the load do in varying temperatures?

The reason I ask is (as noted earlier) Big Game has proven to be very temp-resistant in several cartridges I've tested at widely varying temperatures. Many powders will be temp-resistant in specific cartridge/bullet applications, but so far I've found BG very good across a pretty wide range of rounds and bullets.

Hi John
The 1000 yard silhouette game is a summertime event.
Will typically start testing in April. And the temperature ranges say. 50° to 90° roughly.
Roughly maybe 30 ft per second if that.
Not really enough to take you out of your node.
Big game once used for a while. Really drives the stake through the heart of the old wives tale. About ball powders being dirty. It's simply one of the cleanest powders you can get when you keep it towards the top end.

dave

All of the Belgian-made Ramshot rifle powders tend to burn very cleanly when pressures get up near max. First noticed it with TAC, in a .223 Remington 700 varmint rifle purchased in 2002, a couple years after TAC appeared. For some reason the factory barrel was one of those that never copper-fouled, right out of the box--but part of that, I suspect, was due to how cleanly TAC burned. The rifle would go 500 rounds without cleaning, and accuracy remained the same. I'd then clean it, just because, and accuracy would go to hell for 12-15 rounds before settling right down again--so eventually I quit cleaning it! Pretty handy on a prairie dog shoot.

I tend to be concerned with velocity variations in cold temperatures, due to mostly hunting big game in Montana, and have tested a bunch of loads with various powders at both 70 and 0 Fahrenheit. Big Game has lost an average of between 19 and 36 fps in several cartridges, which is right in there with the Hodgdon Extremes. Among the loads tested was Big Game with 150-grain bullets in the .30-06, and a little oddly the velocity loss was LESS with CCI 200 primers than Federal 215s. Like Charlie, I have often found Big Game to burn more consistently with magnum primers--but not always....

Reviving an older thread here...
I put together a heavy barreled 308 for myself, test fired it yesterday. This is WLR primers, Big Game, 168 MK's. 10 shots at 100 yards. Federal brass that was just annealed. And then I forgot to take a picture of the magnetospeed. Yesterday was dead calm air, flags completely limp....kinda the way I felt on return from the Netherlands this week
Charlie

I found the burn rate perfect for my 338-06 and 225gr Hornady, 2650fps. 22" barrel. I'll have to try magnum primers, but I was happy with an inch. Moose are big .

There's a couple cartridges I found shot Big Game accurately:

22-250 Remington 700 Classic, 55 grain Hornady V-max, 9 ½, 38.6 Grains Big Game, 0.57 MOA
30-06 Remington 700 ADL, 130 grain Barnes TTSX, 9 ½, 60.7 grins Big Game, 0.72 MOA

Certainly not in the same class as Mr. Sisk's loads/rifles, but these were factory rifles with little tweaking, bedded and free floated. average of three each 5-shot groups...

Anyone use it in .280 or .280 AI?

I don’t know how a powder could be more versatile. JB suggested I use it in my 17 Remington. It works extremely well and pours easily into that tiny neck. Then it put an end to this badger that thought I was a prairie dog driving a white pickup…

Well, I used Big Game yesterday with 165 gr Speer bullets in a .30-06. I think I can live with the results I got.

Finally found some in my neck of the woods. Picking some up next week. I have a new Howa 30-06, from which I unscrewed the Hogue stock. I then installed a new Vanguard take off stock. Looks pretty sharp now. I have a passel of 150 - 155 grain bullets. I think this might work OK.

Big Game has a burn-rate somewhat faster than IMR4350 or H4350--about like Winchester 760. In the .280 AI, Ramshot Magnum works much better, especially with bullets from 150 grains up. Ramshot Hunter is somewhat better than Magnum in the standard .280.

I'm wondering about it in the 7 X 57. I have no experience with the cartridge and recently acquired a No. 1S in that caliber.

Big Game works just as well in the 7x57 as it does in the 7mm-08. In fact the best way to work up loads in a modern 7x57 is to use 7mm-08 data.

I’ll give that a try. Tx

It usually works very well, as I've described in more than one of my Gun Gack books.

In the 7x57 chapter Gun Gack IV, The Little Book of Loads That Work, one of the most accurate and higher-velocity loads features Big Game and the 139-grain Hornady Interlock.

John

I picked up Western Powders reloading manual #1 yesterday, I was very disappointed they didn't use Big Game in 338-06. It was just Accurate powders.

When the first four Ramshot rifle powders made in Belgium appeared, around 20 years ago, Western didn't have a lot of loading data. And what they had worked up in their piezo-electronic pressure lab was naturally for more popular rifle cartridges.

As a result I figured out what commonly-listed powders were pretty close in burn-rate to TAC, Big Game, Hunter and Magnum, and use data for those other powders as starting point in less popular cartridges, and a chronograph as a general indication of pressure. Which is how I found out IMR4895 data provided a pretty good starting point for TAC, Winchester 760 for Big Game, Reloder 19 for Hunter, and H1000 for Magnum.

These days Hodgdon owns the Ramshot brands, and their 2023 burn-rate chart shows those comparisons are still pretty appropriate, though H4895 is listed as closer to TAC than IMR4895, and that data for H380 would also be pretty good for Big Game. And H380 data is often listed in other sources than Hodgdon.

Plus, the Internet provides a LOT more loading data these days, without having to rely on paper manuals.

Ramshot Hunter is absolutely unbeatable in the 30-06 with 168 TTSX bullets. 1/2MOA or better and higher velocity than any other powder.

I tried Hunter because of you writings and couldn't be happier

I have a heavy barreled (#7 @26”) 30-06. I wanted a mid load with 168 MK’s for shooting at 350 yards. I studied over all my loading manuals. Then, I put 49.5 grains of Big Game, WLR primers, Winchester brass. Shot two 5 shot groups that were good. 2685 fps. Then shot a 10 shot group that looks about 3/4 inch. Dont think I’ll even try anything else. No, putting everything away, then start drinking.

And I did salt bath anneal this brass…just think how it would have done had I used a candle….

Missed that first time through GGIV. Probably just looking at bullets I had on hand. I hope to put some together this week with 140 grain NBT’s. Looking forward to getting the scope on that rifle and wringing it out. Been awhile since I’ve worked with a NTM rifle.

Charlie S,
Start drinking before hand and the groups will look even better!

Hip

Hip
Good idea !!!

I have four pounds of Hunter so I'll give it a try. Thanks.

I never see Ramshot powders in my area. Would love to try some.

Is it legal to ship powders directly to you in Connecticut?

I purchase a lot of my powder from Internet sites, and it shows up at my front door in a few days. But I'm in Montana....

I believe it’s legal, I just wince at the hazmat charge.

These days the hazmat is a much smaller fraction of the cost of powder--and is usually only around $20 anyway, no matter how much you order.

Some websites also throw "sales" where the hazmat's free--at least when you order a certain minimum amount of powder.

John:

Nosler uses GB for bullet weights up to and including 140-grains in the 7mm-08, then switches to Hunter for anything heavier. In the 7x57 Hunter is used across all bullet weights. Any idea as to why Hunter was used for the lighter bullets instead of BG in the 7x57? Does it have anything to do with case capacity? BTW, have you ever written anything on the relationship between case capacity, bullet weights, and powder choices (i.e., burn rates, etc)?

Thanks, as always.

Good to know re hazmat charges. Reloder powders are also pretty much unavailable around here.

Mike,

I have no firm idea why Nosler does that, but it might be due to the longer case and overall cartridge length of the 7x57, which provides a little more room for powder. Though I have loaded 50 grains of H4350 with 140s in the 7mm-08, and while the powder charge was pretty compressed, it worked fine.

They also might have done that due to only having so much of certain Ramshot powders to play with.

Yeah, it's not a bad deal. What I've also sometimes done when ordering an 8-pounder or two of something I use a lot, is buy a pound of another powder I want to try, but can't find locally. It doesn't at much to shipping, and nothing to the hazmat fee.

RevMike, I'm certainly not Mule Deer, but my understanding is slower powders are not as likely to have high pressure spikes.

I'm looking at $95 for 4350, either one, and $105 for N560., but Hunter at $55. I think I'll burn some Hunter. Canadian dollars